26-Oct-91 16:33:44-GMT,41375;000000000401 Received: from athos.rutgers.edu by aramis.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.4/3.08) id AA20211; Sat, 26 Oct 91 12:23:49 EDT Received: by athos.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.4/3.08) id AA01762; Sat, 26 Oct 91 12:23:44 EDT Date: Sat, 26 Oct 91 12:23:44 EDT Message-Id: <9110261623.AA01762@athos.rutgers.edu> Errors-To: owner-ecto@athos.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@athos.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@athos.rutgers.edu From: ecto@athos.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@athos.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #14 ecto, Number 14 Saturday, 26 October 1991 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: "Keyboards & Vocals" various stuff How today started... license plates Re: license plates ('n stuff) Is .gaffa suspended? EctoWare may be working! Number vs Gesture (was: Keyboards vs Vocals) How today ended... Another Happy admirer Martin meets The Holy Ghost New Kate release? This'n'That Please unsubscribe me from Ecto new member Got it! ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Oct 91 21:24:17 PDT From: stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender) Subject: Re: "Keyboards & Vocals" barger@ils.nwu.edu writes: > I wrote: > >>why should an artist have to program, dammit!? > > greg answers (by email): > >why can't programming be artistic? > > oh, yes, it can, but it's a million times harder to achieve art thru > numbers than thru gestures. i'd like her to be able to wave a magic > mouse-wand and zero in on the perfect sound just by listening to the > changes. > > it's a leftbrain/ rightbrain kind of thing (...you'd only half-understand! > ;^) I would say that great art is achieved by technical mastery on the part of the artist. There seems to be this common image of an artist just spewing art from their fingertips or mouth without apparent effort, but it happens only at the cost of long practice with their painting or voice or musical instruments. Waving that magic mouse-wand could be a far more subtle skill than you might imagine. Even though dance uses the body, and everyone has a body and knows how to make it move, dance isn't an art that anyone can do without training. ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Oct 91 21:53:55 PDT From: stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender) Subject: various stuff After a very brief e-mail exchange with Cynthia Rosas, I have come to the conclusion that she is an *egotistical* raving bitch. Yet more Happy plates: HESALIV GIVENIN 1ALIEN IMALGND ISSUEIS DRMSARE BOXHAP ORBS OXNFREE OFOFUM PRJ499 ODE WAKNUP MURDER Sorry if I duplicated anyone else's plates. My officemate should eventually be ordering _Warpaint_. He keeps asking to borrow my tape for his Walkman while I'm at work. Another friend has my _Warpaint_ CD now and he seems to like it too. I've loaned all my Happy tapes to another friend who likes Kate Bush, Jane Siberry, Laurie Anderson, and a variety of other female artists. His first comment after putting on _Vol. I_ was "She sounds like Sarah McLachlan." Does this mean Sarah McLachlan sounds like Happy? We're thinking about consipiring to get Happy played on the radio in Eugene. There's a free-format station called KAVE that would probably play her stuff. Unfortunately I never listen to the radio so I'm not sure where to start. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1991 16:38 +8:00 From: SVODOPIER@cc.curtin.edu.au Subject: How today started... [Scene] Me, lying buried under my covers in bed, asleep. [Time] 10:00am (this is early in the morning, for me) [FX] BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRP!!!!!!!! (alarm clock) Martin: grumphgraarrrrrggrrrrrrraaaargghhhh.... no no no...... (thinks) Yay! it's summer... surf's up.. (thinks) Oh shit... got three assignments due Monday.. plus this goddamn thesis to finish.... Damn Damn Damn! Falls back into coma-like state. [Time] 10:10am [FX] BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPP!!!!! Martin's hand crawls out from under the pile of covers and hits the shuffle play button on the CD player remote control. The chances are 4:1 that he will get something soft and relaxing to fall back asleep to. The CD player whirrs and clicks as it makes a choice... [FX] Prince's "Lets Work" at full blast. The bass levitates him to a standing position and jerks him across the room, into some clothes, through the bathroom and down the stairs. Bravely he tries to get his eyes to open. The eyes seem to be enjoying their sleep, though, so after a while he gives up and stumbles out the front door to get the paper for breakfast. (Not to eat, you understand, to READ while eating breakfast. Later.) He finds the newspaper by pure chance in the middle of the lawn (actually, in the tree in the middle of the lawn ) and plods back inside, barely noticing the large brown package on the front doorstep. Shuts the door. Whoah!! Large brown package? Goes back outside, and gingerly picks up package. Tells eyes that if they don't get on with doing what they're supposed to they'll be subjected to another Software Engineering lecture. Eyes open in alarm just long enough to make out the U.S. stamp. "Oh yeah!" he says. Next thing he knows he is back in his room hacking the package open with scissors... and YES! YES!! YES!!! Four lovingly handcrafted cassettes and a letter fall out! Reads the letter from Kevin. Smiles. Looks at the four tapes and decides chronological order is the only way to do it. He places "Rhodes Vol. 1" in the player... lines up the brand-new cassette to record it onto and presses "Dub x 1" Pumps up the volume and jumps back on the bed. [FX] first notes of RainKeeper.. (thinks) spanish.... [FX] few more bars of same song... Martin: "Oh yeah!" [FX] rest of song. Martin: "Oh yeah!" [FX] Oh The Drears Martin: OH YEAH! [FX] Third song... Martin: OH YEAH!!! OH SHIT!!! Martin hurriedly has a shower, gets fully dressed and has breakfast while listening to the rest of volume one. (well, ok I have slow showers) "Oh yeah" "Oh yeah" "Oh yeah" Notices a line with something to do with "souls that heal", remembers Ecto-talk on the matter and realises it must be "sores" not "souls", though it *does* sound like souls. Dubs "Rhodes Vol 2." at double speed while quickly printing out some stuff due in half an hour at Uni.... Throws tape and self in car and speeds for Uni in desperate haste... though buoyed along by Happy all the way - not a single red light in 20 km of roads! Later, he gets to hear it all again via headphones while drifting around the campus. "oh yeah" And here I am...! In fact, I'm listening to it right now. First impressions of Vol 1 and Vol 2 : Absolutely superb!! I can't see how people have said things like : "I didn't like it at first, but it grew on me" ... but I suppose a long period of indoctrination into the intricacies of Happy has helped... Anyhow, I love it already! BTW, the tapes arrived exactly 4 weeks to the day since I mailed my order. Kevin wrote regret for the delay... I guess they must be getting a little snowed under, eh? Good... good... I'd asked if Happy would autograph the tapes and she did, all over the front of "Rearmament" in pink texta! Not that I really mind, but it was quite unexpected! Which reminds me, I finally realised what that cover is... it's definitely not clear from the Gifs - I could never see how you people got a face out of a black and white swirl. The "originals" are much nicer than the gifs. What I want to ask the interested out there is is there anything you'd recommend in the way I should listen to the first four... should I look out for anything in particular as regards lyrics etc...? I mean, you have here a totally fresh listen from someone who is already a fan... make use of it if you wish. Blissfully Happy, Martin P.S. Totally inappropriate .sig, I know... but my life is a complicated one and I can't put a Happy one in right now... don't ask. ,------------------------------+----------------------------. _ . | Went down to New Orleans | Martin Dougiamas. | ~ _r' Ll\ ~ | Had myself a ball | sdougiama@cc.curtin.edu.au | | \ ~ | The ladies there, they don't | Curtin University | ~ \ ._ / ~ | care, they don't care at all.| Perth, Western Australia --+---> x~ `-' ~ `========== J.J. Cale =========+============================' V ======================================================================== Subject: license plates Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 10:24:28 N From: Klaus Kluge Hey, you Americans have quite a choice with your license plates. Thats EASY to find something useful for you. My choice is much more limited. Because I'm living in Wuppertal my plate has to start with "W-". This can follow with one or two letters, and will be ended with a number of 1 to 3 digits. Any ideas what to do here? What I've come up with sofar is: "W-UP ..." (number doesn't matter) for "Waking Up", which also reminds me of "Wake Up, Luv" take from a KaTe-song (Cloudbusting?). The British have another variation because (as far as I remember) all their plates have a different starting letter each year. What do this years license plates start with? _____ Klaus Kluge --- kkluge@Materna.DE --- I'll be here, I'll be (in) Ecto! ======================================================================== Subject: Re: license plates ('n stuff) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 08:55:51 -0400 From: jeffy@lewhoosh.umd.edu >Hey, you Americans have quite a choice with your license plates. >Thats EASY to find something useful for you. Yes, but unfortunately, vanity plates can be quite expensive in some areas. Of course, they can also be quite inexpensive in other areas. In Washington, DC, they're quite costly. If I were to move just a couple of miles south into Virginia, I'd already have personalized tags (though to be honest, it'd be hard to choose between something Happy and something to do with kites...) >What I've come up with sofar is: "W-UP ..." (number doesn't matter) >for "Waking Up", which also reminds me of "Wake Up, Luv" take from >a KaTe-song (Cloudbusting?). Actually, the song is "Waking the Witch." This particular clip happens to be the system beep on my computer. Probably the best use I've gotten out of my little digitizer since I bought it 4 years ago. ;-) Speaking of sampling, would their be interest in the archive receiving a copy of the backmasked bit of "Warpaint"? If it's okay with Jessica and people would like it, I'd be happy to upload it. Jeff ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1991 23:07 +8:00 From: SVODOPIER@cc.curtin.edu.au Subject: Re: "Keyboards & Vocals" Re: the relationship between maths and music. I think possibly, Harry, it may just be that most of your friends are also mathematical and some of them happen to like music. It's the same with me... all the guys in my blues band are friends from my Electronic Engineering days, but a hell of a lot of my friends from those days were not really interested in music, either... However, an interesting aside is that all these math/physics students in our band are abnormally interested in wave physics and harmonics etc.... we take AGES to tune guitars because everyone's mucking about with beats and various freaky harmonics etc... :-) Martin (My sig is still SiG ... :-( ) ======================================================================== From: kyrlidis@athena.mit.edu Subject: Is .gaffa suspended? Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 11:36:00 EDT Hi, Just wondering about gaffa's status. No posts in 1 or 2 days after a new KaTe release make me wonder. Angelos ======================================================================== Date: 25 Oct 91 09:41:05 U From: "Tom Johnson" Subject: EctoWare may be working! EctoWare may be working! The first reponses to EctoWare are starting to come in! A couple of messages were waiting in my mailbox this morning: -------------------------------------- Date: 10/25/91 5:04 AM From: Todd Nathan Tom, Thanks!!!. I will try it out and see if I can bomb it. ;') I might just buy a Happy record... Todd --------------------------------------- Date: 10/24/91 1:05 PM From: Ken Anderson Thanks. I enjoy being turned on to new music. I don't have a tape player, so I won't be able to get the first four albums, but I'll try for the CD... Ken --------------------------------------- If we can get even one person to buy a Happy album and become a fan, it will all have been worth it. Thanks Vickie, for putting us in touch with Happy and Kevin. They were both great--we were worried that they might not want their name associated with a piece of software written by a couple of possibly shady characters, but they both loved the idea. Kevin offered us backstage passes to Happy Rhodes concerts for life! After talking to Kevin for a few minutes, I called back with a question I'd forgotten to ask earlier, and Happy picked up the phone. Though I'd never heard her speaking voice before, I knew it was her immediately, and I promptly forgot everything I was going to say. She was very kind, and put up with my imbecilic stumblings and answered all my questions. It was suddenly very strange to be talking to someone I admire so much. I just hope she doesn't think of me as a total idiot. Kevin said that Happy has been invited to play at some music festival in San Francisco, but I forgot to ask when this was. Vickie, could you ask them for me? I'll happily drive 400 miles to hear Happy. One of our Australian users has asked about for ordering info.....Don't we have an Ectotian here from down under? How did you order the stuff? Tom ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 11:46:43 CDT From: barger@ils.nwu.edu Subject: Number vs Gesture (was: Keyboards vs Vocals) footah ah-foots: >except for pure vocal >music, *all* music involves using some kind of technology. now, most >traditional instruments have a mechanical basis, and many modern instruments >have an electronic basis, and these approaches engage different >aspects of the musician but mechanical instruments always have a gestural component, where electronic ones may or may not, depending on the interface. i heard once that there was a real strong correlation between kids' iq's and their ability to sit very still, which i was especially good at, in school. and i see digital art similarly, as: do you have the patience and discipline to break a gesture down into numbers, test it, and refine it. which is a far cry from the energy of the hoe-down bar-band, which is what music is *for*, surely. =========================================================================== Jorn Barger, Northwestern U., Chicago, Illinois. barger@ils.nwu.edu "And crazyheaded Jorn, the bulweh born?" _Finnegans Wake_ 513.07 =========================================================================== ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1991 00:56 +8:00 From: SVODOPIER@cc.curtin.edu.au Subject: How today ended... Howdy all! Well, after a full day of total Happy absorbtion (except for a break where I listened to Johnny Johnson's _Johnny B. Bad_ and Dead Can Dance (which I got yesterday) )... I am very very glad to have them. However, since I'm not really listening to lyrics, I have no idea what I've heard or what I'm listening to... I just jump about all over the tapes and listen to whatever's next. It's like a huge Happy symphony with 50 or so movements... I'm noticing all sorts of similarities between songs.. ie similar structures or similar harmonies but I've no idea between what songs. :-) Useful eh? Anyhow, plenty of time for all that. However, I can see why many people might say all the songs sound the same, (my sister included) ...but since this means they all sound great, what's the problem? :-) Seriously, you need to appreciate the details in technique and effect, and the lyrics, to really appreciate the variety... But that's the same with anything... I know lots of people who think all classical music sounds the same, and all blues sound the same... There is definitely a progression through the albums... Ecto is not really very far from Warpaint, IMO ... but then Vol 1 is not really that far from Warpaint either. ooh! What the hell was that!? Let's see.... must have been "Baby Don't Go". Yeah! I like it, I like it. I suspect my favourite song will be whatever one I'm listening to at the time! Now Ally Ally Oxenfree is playing, and I must say bits of it do remind me of Julee Cruise. Just slightly. The only bummer in the day was placing Rearmament in the deck and finding that the entire first side of the tape was completely blank!! Can Vicksie :) :) :) or whoever next talks to H&K mention this to them? I hope it wasn't a complete batch of tapes that suffered. I guess I'll have to send it back to get a replacement. The only song I find a little annoying purely for musical reasons is is "Box H.A.P.". That little squidgy high synth bops about all around my head and gets up my nose. Fortunately "I Have a Heart" is next which is completely soothing and makes everything bedder agin. Aaahh. :-) Well, that's enough blah. I'm at work at the moment and it's kinda late, so I'm off home to give Ecto the "lying in bed in the dark and inventing mental movies to match the music" test. |-) 'Night all, Martin. ------------------------------------------------------------------- sdougiama@cc.curtin.edu.au Curtin University, Western Australia. ------------------------------------------------------------------- P.S. In fact, I already have Ecto on at the moment...Geez it's good. But then you all knew that. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 12:54:20 EDT From: Laura Clifford Subject: Another Happy admirer Well, I had my parents and older visiting cousin over for dinner last Friday (my cousin's about 10 years younger than my mom - 55ish). I had Warpaint playing when they arrived and my cousin noticed it right away, wanted to know who it was, said she really liked it and asked me to play it again later in the evening. My mother said 'Isn't that Kate Bush?'... Anyway, another Warpaint order got dropped into the mail this a.m. Will bring it to NYC in December when I go to visit my cuz for the weekend (she IS far younger in spirit than age...) Laura ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 06:01 CDT From: vickie@chinet.chi.il.us (Vickie Ann Mapes) Subject: Martin meets The Holy Ghost Vickie here. Martin, I just read your post about getting the 1st4. ***************************** YAY! ****************************** Since, by the time you read this, you'll already (probably) have listened to Rearmament & Ecto, I won't give you any tips for first listenings. I always find that listening to albums over and over and over and over again, to engrave them into my brain, is best. I assume that won't be a problem :-) I can assure you that you won't get tired of them. I like to listen as background music, to to get to know the music and vocal inflections, before I settle down with the lyrics and try to match words with voice. Please keep posting about your reactions. God, I LOVE it!! What's "textra"? Has your sister heard them yet? What does she think? What's your sister's name anyway? Let's get her involved. ============================================== Steve V., now, Cynthia can't be *that* bad, she just has differing opinions. This is America, you know. Land of the Greed and home of the Braves. She has her opinion, you have yours, I have mine, Mrs. Jenkins down the street has hers, Flipper has its, so hey, what's the problem? She's probably mad at you because there's no cute&quick way to screw up your name. Ste just doesn't cut it. I love hers. Cyn, Cynth & Cyns all fit her so perfectly! And, because I didn't say it before, Thank YOU, on behalf of all the people who feel the same way, for calling her a bitch in public! Non-gaffa people are probably shaking their heads, wondering why we are so venomous toward her. Without posting her articles here (which stunk up gaffa, and I wouldn't do that to Ecto) all I can say is that it's deserved. Trust me. I mean, I'm an easy-going, friendly person, but I've never been so appalled or outraged at anyone on gaffa before. "Bitch" is mild compared to what she's called in this household (try 4-letter word beginning with "c" :-) Anyway, I hope she's history. I'm suprised she didn't come back at you Steve. At least, I haven't seen a post from her quoting your latest. oops, noisy line city. ========================================================================== Well, back to brighter and friendlier things, Martin, I can't wait until you start picking favorites. Be sure to let us know. Do you hear Happy's voice in the beginning echos of Drears? Wait until you sit down and read the lyrics along with Wretches. It's surreal. Can't *wait* to hear what you think of Rearmament and Ecto. Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 12:37:55 -0400 From: barry@gnu.ai.mit.edu Subject: New Kate release? What new Kate release? Barry ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1991 01:19 +8:00 From: SVODOPIER@cc.curtin.edu.au Subject: Re: Number vs Gesture (was: Keyboards vs Vocals) Jorn boasts: > i heard once that there was a real strong correlation between > kids' iq's and their ability to sit very still, which i was > especially good at, in school. Was that a strong negative or positive correlation? :-) :-) >i see digital art similarly, as: do you have the patience and discipline to >break a gesture down into numbers, test it, and refine it. which is a far >cry from the energy of the hoe-down bar-band, which is what music is *for*, >surely. Seriously, what exactly do you mean by this last bit? Martin Sigless The Ecto Wombat. sdougiama@cc.curtin.edu.au Western Australia. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 05:16 CDT From: vickie@chinet.chi.il.us (Vickie Ann Mapes) Subject: This'n'That Vickie here. Various this and thats... Birthday list....changes: Greg Bossert January 9 1962 OfTheTimes sign changed :-) Joe Dembski May 7 1952 Rumple added Michele Young May 21 1970 Taurmini spelling & sign Meredith Tarr September 1 1971 Virgo spelling Michy, I didn't know what sign you were or wanted to be, so I put you down as "Mason" (as in Perry :-) ) So are you a Taurus or a Gemini? Which do you want to be? Jessica, what does Joseph want to be listed as? > vicki- > yes it's michele (1 'L' though) =) (Fixed now) > do you still do your radio show? can you let me know the > frequency? i have a good friend in evanston who is a kon- > vert to KaTe thanks to me always harping about her. > i think she might like to hear it... =) Yep, WZRD 88.3 is the ticket. Thanks! > played 'warpaint' in it's entirity (sp?) a few > weeks ago on my show. one person has told me > she likes it. should i inundate my listeners > with happy every week? Sure, she's new and interesting and you'll never run out of material. > how can i get the music director to get a copy of it for the > station so others can play 'wp'?? any ideas? Write to Kevin. Be sure to drop names (Ecto, Kiri, Jessica, me). Their Warpaint supply is dangerously low, your station might not get one right away, but Kevin will put you on the VIP list, I'm sure. materna.de> > Another addition to our Happy Birthday list: > I had a look on which day of the week everyone was born. > Mon 3 (Happy Rhodes) > Tue 9 > Wed 5 (Kate Bush) > Thu 4 > Fri 5 (Kevin Bartlett) > Sat 3 > Sun 4 OK, Mr. You-Must-Have-Lots-Of-Time-On-Your-Hands, howzabout giving me a who's who for the days of the week. I'll add 'em onto the birthday list. Most people have no idea what day they were born on, so it's interesting. I mean, who are all these Tuesday people? btw, I LOVE this! > ***** I've made her a legend in my mind! ***** Klaus Kluge > ***** SHE IS A LEGEND IN ALL OUR MINDS ! ***** kkluge@Materna.DE > (isn't she?) For me personally, YES! I love to see you people with Happy stuff in your sig lines. Remember how it was partially Jeff Burka's Happy sig line that got Steve V. interested in hearing what the line sounded like being sung? Angelos, your line from "Poetic Justice" is classic, and I love how you weird out Happy's name. Did you start that because of the "kill file" threats? Jessica, I love to see your sig line come up in gaffa (though, mild complaint below) because that's one of my favorite lines in the song, and it sums up everything from the past. Wonderful! Joe, H&K will be keeping me informed about the WXPN interview. NO WAY are we going to miss it! Jorn says: > Did somebody already note that JC Bush is spelled "Carda" on the 2 rooms > photocredit? Yes, how silly. It's more than a typo. There's a big difference between "Carder" and "Carda"! > Why 2 rooms? what a limp title! and the radically different styles of > photographs of the performers give a kind of chilly distancing, like 'we > didn't care enough to come together in his honor' Elton John & Bernie Taupin never wrote songs together, in the same room. That's my understanding re the title. Songs composed in "Two Rooms" see? Yeah, it's lame. > and the songs sound *so* 70s... This could have been a great compilation if a little inspiration had been used. This will be in the bargain bins soon....soon.... > i do like rocketman, but it seems full of pain, like the chin-in-hands pose > of her glamourpic. that burnt-fuse strum is the most despairing sound i've > ever heard from kate, though the sense of digging deeper for life is still > strong. At least, it's the most inspired and interesting cover on the whole compilation. Everyone else does their songs so straight, as if they think lightning will strike them if they vary at all from the original. > sorry if i'm repeating rmg-comments, but do her BV's sound Sugarcubes-like > to anyone? Have to get back to you on that. Hmmm.... > is ecto flamefree enough for me to say i'm pleasantly surprised by Bon Jovi > and Rod's contributions? I never heard JBJ, sofarasiknow, and he acquits > himself better than i expected. bruce hornsby also intrigues me. (i > normally hate everything by Rod except that one early sweet ballad...) Well, I agree with you here. Especially the Jon Bon Jovi. I can't stand the guy or his group, but I too was pleasantly pleased with his cover of "Levon". > do Wilson Phillips always lead with their decolletage? ;^) God, their cover of "Daniel" SUCKS! Oh, it's decently sung, but so boring! Chris points out that it's a gay love song. I never thought about it, but if so, an inspired producer would have had someone like Jimmy Sommerville (that is his name, right? The guy from Bronski Beat?) cover it. Get-it-out-of-my-system-beef: Ever notice how every photograph of Wilson Phillips is framed in such a way to hide the (sorry, can't remember her name) overweight one? If she were a black woman, her size wouldn't matter at all. Say, Jessica and Meredith, any chance you could shorten your sig lines? Here's exactly how they appear when I save them to file: || jessica || It is this that || Don't try to tell me there's no reason for || || lawrence || brings us || any moment in time, every memory of mine. || || koeppel || together. || Those years are lines of color on my face, || || dembski || --Kate || the past is warpaint. --Happy Rhodes || ============================================================================= === Meredith Tarr "Oh yes I know I'm always falling, mtarr@eagle.wesleyan.edu Gazing at hazy goldfish in your swimming eyes" Wesleyan University -Kate Bush ============================================================================= === So I always end up having to either cut them out (which I don't like to do) or fixing them by deleting spaces or making changes, so they look like this: || jessica || It is this || Don't try to tell me there's no reason for || || lawrence || that brings || any moment in time, every memory of mine. || || koeppel || us together. || Those years are lines of color on my face, || || dembski || --Kate || the past is warpaint. --Happy Rhodes || =========================================================================== Meredith Tarr "Oh yes I know I'm always falling, mtarr@eagle.wesleyan.edu Gazing at hazy goldfish in your swimming eyes" Wesleyan University -Kate Bush =========================================================================== Jeez, I feel silly complaining about sig lines, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. If my system weirds them out so much, other people might be getting them weird too. They're both too neat to be weirded out. Greg writes: > heh, someone on the net somewhere mentioned a t-shirt seen at a boston > civil rights rally: > "it's a gay thing -- let us help you understand" I love all the various take-offs I've seen in this vein. I've been involved in some extremely heavy-duty e-mail correspondence with Jon Drukman recently and this reminded me that I'd love to send him a t-shirt saying: "It's an Emotional Thing-maybe someday you'll understand" :-) couldn't resist! Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 12:30:32 CDT From: barger@ils.nwu.edu Subject: Re: Number vs Gesture (was: Keyboards vs Vocals) Martin asks: >>i see digital art similarly, as: do you have the patience and discipline to >>break a gesture down into numbers, test it, and refine it. which is a far >>cry from the energy of the hoe-down bar-band, which is what music is *for*, >>surely. > >Seriously, what exactly do you mean by this last bit? do i really think music is for communicating exhilaration? yeah, i think so. i could change my mind in the face of a good counterexample though. there are subtler forms of exhilaration, but it's always about learning to be loose in ways you weren't loose before...? ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 12:09:31 CDT From: stern@chem.nwu.edu (Charlotte Stern) Subject: Please unsubscribe me from Ecto Please cancel my subscription to Ecto as temporarily I cannot properly keep up with the volume of mail. If you decide to digest-ize, please let me know. Oh, and uh... someone *please* send me email if happy decides to tour or puts out more CDs? thanks :-) see y'all on gaffa... -mjm (mike mendelson) P.S. I am thinking about road-tripping from Chicago to Madison WI Nov. 6 to catch the Innocence Mission show there since I will miss the show the next day in Chicago. If there's anyone in Chicago who wants to come for the ride, or anyone in Madison who I could meet there, please send me email (stern@stella.chem.nwu.edu) or call me (708-332-1821). P.P.S. to Shark: I am a slime because I have yet to mail you that tape I promised some months ago. But, I haven't forgotten about it. Please, if you send me your real mail address again (or if I can dredge it up here) I *really* will send you a tape. If I can get more regular access to the net, I might see y'all again here soon. Till then. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 14:18:15 MDT From: dbx@olympic.atmos.colostate.edu (Doug Burks) Subject: Re: Number vs Gesture (was: Keyboards vs Vocals) Greetings, (Well, here goes another lunch break, 'wasted' while writing an Ecto post!) I've been avidly following Jorn's and Greg's discussions about making music, and I thought I'd throw in my two cents. Penny One: No matter how you look at it, artists have to know their tools. Even for something as basic as voice, a lot of work and decisions have to be made. For example, Happy has a great tool in her voice, but how many years of practice and work went into smoothing its rough edges, hitting the right notes, and the recording the results properly. How much work went into her harmonies with herself or her switches from high to low to high to ... registers. I imagine this takes a lot of work and practice to perfect. Take a look at any true a capella group, such as the Bobs, who use their voices for the whole arrangement. Using the voice as rhythm again is not something done purely using their talent, but something practiced and experimented with until it's right. No artist can take a brand new tool and make great art out of it immediately, or I would venture to guess even after several years. The artist must invest the time and practice to learn the tools, and more importantly, learn how to express (or even if she can express) her ideas with that tool. This goes for the voice, traditional instruments, as well as electronics. In spite of that, I will say there is a case for user interfaces on electronic instruments. However, I am convinced that fancy user interfaces are the computer equivalent of training wheels on a bicycle. They are a great help to get you started, but once you've gotten the hang of it they merely get in the way. User interfaces always limit the choices and capabilities for the equipment or software they hide. In a small well-defined conceptual world, such as a network news reading program, this can work great. The operations required are known, limited, and well-defined. However even here, news readers get bigger and bigger with more and more capabilities. Just look at the bloated mess of GNU Emacs, which started out as a little text editor, but now wants to be an operating system. However, the ideas an artist wants to express are not limited to a small, well-defined conceptual world. The better the artist, the more she wants to bust any boundaries of her world. She will want to use the instrument in ways no one else has before! How can that be expressed in a user interface? One way or another, the artist has to learn the instrument as thoroughly as possible to fully express her ideas. Any interface has to get completelyl out of her way. I'll fully admit that an electronic instrument with its near infinite plasticity is damned tough to learn. Maybe music needs what computer visual arts has a lot of, the pairing of technical and artistic talent into a single team. Penny Two: This is an ancient pet peeve (i.e., I'm not picking on Greg or Jorn or anyone). People are right-brained _or_ left-brained. People use numbers _or_ use gestures. For every winner, there is a loser. There are two sides to every story. Our society is full of such false dichotomies. Just look at the recent Thomas hearings, where everyone said that either Thomas was lying or Hill was lying. Couldn't both have been lying? Couldn't something else have really happened between them? Can't people have both left and right brain skills? We get into too much of this vs that, or trying to categorize everything. People in this mailing list should be especially wary of this, given the near impossibility of putting Happy's music into a neat little labelled box. People and reality come in an infinite variety that should be fully enjoyed without limiting it to our pre-constructed little boxes, especially boxes labelled with race, sex, sexual orientation, etc., which have become the rage over the last fifteen years or so. Hell, the most interesting people, places, ideas, and events are usually outside those boxes. Forget those f**king boxes, and see! (IMHO, if you couldn't guess! No smileys, though.) Doug Burks _O_ dbx@olympic.atmos.colostate.edu |< She really is!! There are two types of people in this world, Those who think there are two types of people in this world, and those who don't. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 17:23:11 EDT From: jessica Subject: Re: Please unsubscribe me from Ecto ack! I *do* have a digest going, and it seesm to be fine (finally!) Let me know if you'd like me to put you on the digest - in the meantime, i will take you off the list.. jessica || jessica || It is this that || Don't try to tell me there's no reason for || || lawrence || brings us || any moment in time, every memory of mine. || || koeppel || together. || Those years are lines of color on my face, || || dembski || --Kate || the past is warpaint. --Happy Rhodes || ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Oct 91 17:37:04 EDT From: jessica Subject: new member A welcome to geoff carre! There's a birthday-thing going on, let us know when your birthday is and what sign you are (or would like ot be tohught of as, be anything you like, even none at all).. i'm in a rush to get out! so um.. the rest of you, help me with an intro || jessica || It is this that || Don't try to tell me there's no reason for || || lawrence || brings us || any moment in time, every memory of mine. || || koeppel || together. || Those years are lines of color on my face, || || dembski || --Kate || the past is warpaint. --Happy Rhodes || ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1991 17:11:33 -0500 From: Brian Bloom Subject: Re: new member I find it funny how the birthday issue snowballed! The whole thing started by me muttering under my breath that it was my bithday, so that was a good excuse to by a CD changer! Now we have completely documented the birthdays of dozens of people. Are we oddballs or what? At least we're Happy oddballs! :^) __ ____ __ ____ __ __ (__==__) /\ \ / \_\ / /\ / \ \ / |\ / /\ (oo) ( moo.) / \_\ / /\ |_| / / /| /\ \ \ / ||/ / / /-------\/ -' / /\ | |\ \/ /_/_ / / / \ \/ \ \ / |/ / / / | U.T.|| / \/ |_| \ __ \_\ /_/ / \ /\ \_\ / /| / / * ||----|| / /\ ./_/ \ \ \/_/_\_\/ \ \ \/_// / | / / ^^ ^^ \ \/ |_| \ \_\ /_/\ \ \_\ /_/ /|_/ / Br!an Bloom \__/_/ \/_/ \_\/ \/_/ \_\/ \_\/ brianb@natinst.com ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Oct 91 11:47:07 BST From: Stephen Thomas Subject: Got it! Hi all. A couple of weeks ago I sent off for Warpaint & Ecto, and yesterday they arrived. I've only had chance to listen to WP at the moment, but I'm very impressed - but then, I knew I would be, because I'd heard a couple of tracks when I visited Greg in August :-). First impression. Is it me, or does she have a preoccupation (at least on WP) with matters spiritual (for want of a better word)? I find this interesting, because she seems to touch on reincarnation on a few tracks... I'm going to give more plays to allow more impressions to form. Jessica, can you pass the word that I'm impressed and pleased, together with my thanks for my copies being signed? Thanks. Keep well, Stephen ======================================================================== To join ecto, please send electronic mail to the following address: ecto-request@athos.rutgers.edu To have your thoughts included in the next issue, send mail to: ecto@athos.rutgers.edu To subscribe to "Ecto", the printed fanzine, send $8 to: Ecto PO Box 11291 New Brunswick, NJ 08906 Ecto is issued 8 times/year, and will include photos and as much material from non-net members as we can get! Donations above the subscription cost are welcomed - all money goes to bringing you better issues! Your "humble pseudo-moderator" -- jessica (jessica@athos.rutgers.edu)