17-Oct-91 19:33:22-GMT,24361;000000000401 Received: from athos.rutgers.edu by aramis.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.4/3.08) id AA21435; Thu, 17 Oct 91 15:22:21 EDT Received: by athos.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.4/3.08) id AA13227; Thu, 17 Oct 91 15:22:12 EDT Date: Thu, 17 Oct 91 15:22:12 EDT Message-Id: <9110171922.AA13227@athos.rutgers.edu> Errors-To: owner-ecto@athos.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@athos.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@athos.rutgers.edu From: ecto@athos.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@athos.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #9 ecto, Number 9 Thursday, 17 October 1991 Today's Topics: *-----------------* God help me, what have I done? Re: Say what? Various things... Flaming is catching ReOrdering Gaffa, flaming, and others poster ??? ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Oct 91 01:35:32 PDT From: stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender) Subject: God help me, what have I done? I couldn't hold myself back from adding to the flamage in gaffa any longer, so I spewed this into love-hounds. If you aren't a love-hound and find this perplexing, you'd probably find most of it perplexing even in context. I hope Ecto doesn't go this way any time soon. >To: love-hounds@eddie.mit.edu >Subject: The death of my respect for Cynthia's opinions Me sez: >> Cynthia's post, however, is the sort of thing that kills >> rational discussion since few people are egoless enough to just >> sit around and take that kind of abuse. Cynthia Rosas sez: > And that is _your_ opinion Steve, which you're entitled to. > I said how it came off to me, and that's the way it goes. I > don't think it was abusive. I found that particular essay to > be written in an adolescent and sychophantic style, that's the > way it struck me. How else would you like me to register that > opinion? Are you people adults or fragile orchids? I'm > afraid when a divergent view is expressed, sometimes it may > not always be in a form to Emily Post's liking. Nor yours, > nor mine, etc etc. ALso, I did not offer a lengthy criticism > of Jorn's proposal. I gave my own emotional reaction to it. > Short & simple. You are a raving bitch. If that's what I really think is the truth, then is saying it abusive? After all, it's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it, since this is a free country. Why should I be worried about offending you? You're not afraid of divergent views, are you? How else would you like me to register my opinion? I've given _my_ emotional reaction, short and simple. I swear, every post I've seen from you yet shows no respect for the opinions of others, no interest in phrasing your arguments so that even your opponents might agree with them, and no concern for the effect your words might have on others. Ooooh, don't hate me if I break under the strain . . . Analyzed, crucified, caught on Satan's wing -- Happy Rhodes (oops, is it safe to mention her here in Love-Hounds yet?) ----- Honestly, "Possessed" came on just as I was starting up on this posting. A strange phenomenon indeed. But on to lighter stuff, a new tale of Happy: Today at work, my office mate asked me what I was listening to on my walkman. "That sounds pretty good," he said. I was listening to "Phobos", and forcibly tore myself away from it, said "It's the Happy Rhodes album _Warpaint_", rewound to the beginning of "Phobos", and gave him the headphones. "She sounds a lot like the lead singer of the Eurythmics," he said, after a while. So I gave him the general Happy plug and we went and retrieved my CD from the desk of another person at work I had lent it to. I'm waiting to see what he says about it tomorrow. I was amazed that a) I was listening to _Warpaint_ loud enough that he could hear it in my headphones and b) it sounded pretty good to him even though it was hardly very clear! We did discuss conspiring to get _Warpaint_ played on a local alternative radio station. And I still can't stop listening to _Warpaint_, although I at least took my tape of _The Sensual World_ and _The Dreaming_ to work and listened to the first half of _Rhodes Vol. I_ earlier. I ask myself, "Do I want to listen to something else? I mean, I could get tired of this album after a while." But I keep answering, "No, not right now." I haven't been this infatuated with an album since _The Dreaming_. In the really good songs, like "Murder" or "Phobos" or "Terra Incognita" or "Words Weren't Made for Cowards" or "Warpaint", I sometimes just can't help wearing this big Happy grin. "Phobos" has joined my list of perfectly constructed songs, along with "Suspended in Gaffa", Jane Siberry's "The Walking (and constantly)", and Laurie Anderson's "Ramon". [hep me, hep me, I've been hyp-mo-tized by Happy fanaticism!] Damn, I have been staying up too late dealing with e-mail entirely too much lately. ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1991 18:36 +8:00 From: SVODOPIER@cc.curtin.edu.au Subject: Re: Say what? Re: the Kate concert reference... OOPS! and I'd promised myself not to let that one slip, too. Well, now the cat's finally out of the bag I guess I can let you all in the fact that Kate had an impromptu set of 3 "Dreaming" concerts in York back during August this year. York is about 90 minutes drive from Perth, where I live... so I went and stayed over for the weekend and saw the last two concerts on Saturday night and Sunday afternoon. Apparently Friday was fraught with technical difficulties anyhow, according to a friend of mine who saw it... Kate's negligee was nearly ripped off by a falling mike stand and her Fairlight actually fell off the stage at one point when she knocked it during the dancing bit for "Sensual World". The music of course was superb, a really good selection from all her albums - even the Ninth Wave, which I found surprising. The male choir in "Hello Earth" were particularly good. The audience of about 600 each night had mostly driven up from Perth as I had, but there quite a few locals, too. A lot of them hadn't really heard much Kate before but got enthusiastic when she did a "Dreaming" medley incorporating the Australian national anthem and a few old Slim Dusty numbers. The local hotel owner featured on digeridu and the whole effect was nearly awesome. It was not extensively advertised even in Perth... just a simple splash panel in The West Australian gig guide and a mention on our public radio station. The result was I didn't find out about it until the Thursday of that week, so I didn't have time to get any decent recording equipment together to make a bootleg. All I managed to get was most of the first half using my dad's portable dictaphone. It was good to see her chatting with the audience between songs... She seemed to enjoy the laid-back atmosphere of the place and at one point even said as much, something about how she loved to perform live but hated all the work involved in creating concerts for hard-core fans. Apparently, she and Del were holidaying anonymously down here when some equipment became available after the annual Jazz Festival and they thought, what the hell...why not. Anyhow, I got work to do. Keep Happy! Martin sdougiama@cc.curtin.edu.au Curtin University, Western Australia. < .sig out of commission for a while > ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Oct 91 03:04 CDT From: katefans@chinet.chi.il.us (Chris n Vickie) Subject: Various things... Vickie here. Hi Laura! Good to hear your voice. There hadn't been any Decembers until you. It's so strange. *3* people with the same birthdate, yet no Junes or Novembers at all (yet). The Leos are ahead..yay! Jorn, I think Mitch, you, Doug and I are the senior members here. The first person that calls me Mother Ecto will get bopped upside the head though :-) and I don't think Mitch would appreciate being called Father either... You young whippersnappers.. bad enough being Jon Drukman's giddy Auntie Vickie. :-) Greg says: > ah, but it was Dan Riley who, back at Carleton College, played me > all those old Genesis albums... i was hopeless up to that point! Boy, I was hopeless before I discovered Genesis too. I listened to things like The James Gang, Black Sabbath, Black Oak Arkansas, and Jimmy Spheeris. Genesis opened my eyes to a new world of alternative music. OK, some of the whippersnappers out there may laugh, but this group, though they may well be "arena dinosaurs" now, were truly very weird and strange and alternative back in those days. I lost interest in keeping up with Genesis after _Abacab_ came out. By then I was very deeply into Kate and was more interested in Peter's solo career. > i owe Dan for introducing me to Genesis/Peter Gabriel, Yes, Brand X, > Larry Fast, etc. etc. etc... I had all those albums too. I really liked Synergy and Brand X. One of the most obscure albums in my collection is one by a group called Flaming Youth, which is the band that Phil Collins was in _before_ he joined Genesis. I probably have one of the few copies in existance! I found it in a used record store in the late 70s. God knows what I might be able to get for it if I wanted to sell it. > heh, probably owe him for KaTe -- i *did* buy the Dreaming out of the > blue, but he assures me i knew the name from his copy of PG3... Yeah, that's where I first heard the name Kate Bush. > and it was Dan who started sending me love-hounds digests via snail mail: > lacking those, i would never have gotten into network news, never gone to > the KonvenTion, never met Vickie and heard her Happy tapes, and i wouldn't > be here now!!! Thanks from me too Dan! Yeah, the PG/Genesis/Kate connection is there for me too. Literally, if I hadn't "found" Genesis in 1973, I would not be who or where I am. I'm not exaggerating. Genesis--->Kate--->Chris--->Radio--->Happy--->Computer--->Chicago Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Oct 91 05:08 CDT From: vickie@chinet.chi.il.us (Vickie Ann Mapes) Subject: Flaming is catching Vickie here. I know exactly how you feel Steve. I've never seen anyone like her on the net before. I will say here, what I will *not* say in gaffa. She stinks up the newsgroup. There. It's off my chest. I can take jon Drukman, as long as I can be Auntie Vickie. I can ignore (from now on) Richard Caldwell. He's very logical and intelligent and I should have known better than to tangle with him. No more. But Cynthia is a new breed of...I don't know what to call her. Calling Jorn "Jornie" and saying what she did about him drove me to tears of anger. I *hate* to be like that. I will not get into a flame war (even though I hate to be called "Vicks" myself :-) with her, because it would be useless. Sorry to spout off like this in Ecto, but it's part of what I'm going to say now. I love Ecto *SO* much. I really feel at home here. This really does have a family, friendly type atmosphere, and when I get depressed about things that are going on in gaffa, I sort of crawl back into my Ecto womb and feel better. You people are so nice. I wrote a little bit about Ecto in gaffa last night. I said it was a very friendly atmosphere. I almost continued on to say that "there hasn't been a flame war yet :-)" but I cut it out. Mainly because it might give someone like Jon (who I really like, believe it or not, even though he's a snot :-) an excuse to come in with a "oh how boring" post. I really do understand how this would look to him. Without critisism, without differing opinions that are so strong as to possibly lead to a flame war, what good is it? Well, to me it's the chance to be involved with a wide group of people who don't snipe at each other. Who don't use any little excuse to show off their proweress at sarcasm. Who aren't cynical by nature and who respect other people's feelings. Differing opinions I have no problem with. How those opinions are presented are what's important to me. I totally blew my whole point in gaffa by stooping to the level of those I was complaining about. Ouch! *sigh* Thank you all for being who you are, and for letting Happy into your great big generous hearts. Thank you for letting me pour my heart out in a sloppy mess all over the floor and not sticking an electric line into the ooze. Yuk, I should have come up with a better anology. Thank you for letting me be me. I do love gaffa, but not right now, not after what I just finished reading. Cynthia's all over the place and I had to come back here just to feel better. Just the act of typing ecto@athos.rutgers.edu started to ease the shaking in my hands and heart. I'm crying right now, and I'm not ashamed to admit it here. Thank you. Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1991 09:01:59 -0500 From: Brian Bloom Subject: Re: Flaming is catching A really interesting effect could be accomplished by the Ectophiles boycotting r.m.gaffa for a week or so. Almost everyone on here is a love-hound. I agree about the unnecessary flaming on r.m.gaffa. I don't even read the articles anymore unless they are about a particular song or record. Mostly I just hover over the 'n' key and as soon as someone starts over-intellectuallizing, it gets pushed, quickly. I listen to music because I enjoy it. I joke about being a shallow person because I rarely find 'deep meaning' in books or music. In fact, the only lyrics of Kate I've ever even read are those to Deeper Understanding and only then because I'm really into computers. :) I'm sorry, Vickie, that some have resorted to personal assaults on r.m.g. Ecto is a much tighter family, with people 'pointing out' interesting things to the others, rather than telling them they're wrong. How can anyone be 'wrong' about what they see in their music? (Rhetorical question) Anyway... hmmm... I guess I just over-intellectualized too... I think I'll just nip off somewhere and shoot myself... humanely, of course. (Sorry, small Hitchhiker's tribute) __ ____ __ ____ __ __ (__==__) /\ \ / \_\ / /\ / \ \ / |\ / /\ (oo) ( moo.) / \_\ / /\ |_| / / /| /\ \ \ / ||/ / / /-------\/ -' / /\ | |\ \/ /_/_ / / / \ \/ \ \ / |/ / / / | U.T.|| / \/ |_| \ __ \_\ /_/ / \ /\ \_\ / /| / / * ||----|| / /\ ./_/ \ \ \/_/_\_\/ \ \ \/_// / | / / ^^ ^^ \ \/ |_| \ \_\ /_/\ \ \_\ /_/ /|_/ / Br!an Bloom \__/_/ \/_/ \_\/ \/_/ \_\/ \_\/ brianb@natinst.com ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Oct 91 09:55:37 -0400 From: gb10@gte.com (Gregory Bossert) Subject: Re: God help me, what have I done? Steve (at greylady -- i love that) comments on Cynthia on gaffa: > I couldn't hold myself back from adding to the flamage in gaffa > any longer, so I spewed this into love-hounds. > I swear, every post I've seen from you yet shows no respect for > the opinions of others, no interest in phrasing your arguments so > that even your opponents might agree with them, and no concern > for the effect your words might have on others. heh, i ragged a bit on Ms. Rosas myself in gaffa. felt a bit embarassed and a lot better for doing it... > Ooooh, don't hate me if I break under the strain . . . > Analyzed, crucified, caught on Satan's wing > -- Happy Rhodes (oops, is it safe to mention her here > in Love-Hounds yet?) perfect. perfect perfect perfect. > I was amazed that a) I was listening to _Warpaint_ loud enough > that he could hear it in my headphones and b) it sounded pretty > good to him even though it was hardly very clear! :( careful -- since you're missing the normal ambient clues when listening on headphones, it's easy to let the volume sneak up on you. and then one day, you won't be able to hear those high notes anymore... > Damn, I have been staying up too late dealing with e-mail > entirely too much lately. uh huh. tell me about it. ;-} footah! -greg -- gb10@gte.com -- "and i will sit right here waiting for the gift of sound and vision and i will sing waiting for the gift of sound and vision" -- Bowie ======================================================================== From: Jeanne B Schreiter Subject: ReOrdering Date: Thu, 17 Oct 91 9:22:37 CDT As of yesterday, I mailed out another check to Happy and Kevin, chock full of radio news and well wishs; however, pointing out the check. I lent my Happy "Warpaint" cd to a friend, and now I daresay, I wonder if I'll get it back (that and Enya's "Watermark.") Is this a sign? At least now I know I can't lend it out again. :) As Happy's music circles the world... (*smiles*) Ok, I'll lend it out, but not without written confirmation that I'll get it back. Without Happy music in Milwaukee. JBnS ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Flaming is catching Date: Thu, 17 Oct 91 15:45:29 N From: Klaus Kluge Because of Vickies "Subject: Flaming is catching" message I had to go into .gaffa and read some of the messages (I'm weeks back in reading r.m.g). Hope you forgive me, Vickie, that I was searching for Vicks, but that seemed to be the best orientation. :-) I'm sure only ignoring Ms. Cynical will stop the war. You can't convince her, as I have the impression she does it just for fun. I don't think to boycott r.m.g. (like Brian mentioned) is an alternative. It would just widen the frontline. All the "Renegades of Ecto" against the "True Believers of Gaffa". Brrrrr, what a thought. So far, I've managed not to jump into that war, because it would only make it worse. That's why I am not standing beside you in .gaffa, Vickie, although I am on your side, but I am here in Ecto to help you to recover and gain new strength. I wouldn't be surprised if the other Ectophiles feel the same. Be careful that you don't post Ecto/Gaffa messages in the wrong group. Us friendly people are not used to read harsh words from you in here, and some of the other Love-Hounds would go crazy when they read what we are writing about it here. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- He thought he was gonna die. But he didn't. | Klaus Kluge She thought she could never cope but she did. | kkluge@Materna.DE We thought it was all over. But it wasn't |---------------------- ...... it hadn't started yet. (KaTe) | (Unicornuus Marinus) ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Oct 91 10:52:25 -0400 From: gb10@gte.com (Gregory Bossert) Subject: Re: ReOrdering Jeanne laments: > I lent my Happy "Warpaint" cd to a friend, and now I daresay, > I wonder if I'll get it back (that and Enya's "Watermark.") :( my _watermark_ never did come back... so i bought another. :) that does it: i'm getting another copy of _warpaint_! i am *not* lending out my autographed one...! heh, of course, if Happy autographs the new one, then i'll really be stuck! ;-} footah! -greg -- gb10@gte.com -- if love is a game, can i build a hotel on boardwalk? ======================================================================== Subject: Re: ReOrdering Date: Thu, 17 Oct 91 16:16:19 N From: Klaus Kluge Greg wrote: > Jeanne laments: > > I lent my Happy "Warpaint" cd to a friend, and now I daresay, > > I wonder if I'll get it back (that and Enya's "Watermark.") > > my _watermark_ never did come back... so i bought another. :) Thanks for the warning, to both of you! I'll be careful whom to lent my copy. _________________________________________________________ | "Tell me all the plans you have for the great beyond. | | Will you be physical again, or be a cosmic vagabond." | | --- Happy Rhodes --- | | Klaus "cosmic vagabond" Kluge kkluge@Materna.DE | ======================================================================== From: kyrlidis@athena.mit.edu Subject: Gaffa, flaming, and others Date: Thu, 17 Oct 91 11:20:37 EDT Hi, I just finished reading the latest episodes in the ongoing gaffa flamefest. I have one comment to make. 'WHY?' OK, Cynthia is the most obnoxious and annoying gaffa poster, and since boycotting gaffa will flood it with her messages, the only way to stop this seems to post totally irrelevant articles, like the IAQ's and VIckie's reply. Maybe someone should start a birthday poll there, too...:-) And WHY DOES PRINCE MENTION KATE??? IF HE DID COVER A SONG OF HERS IN A RADIO SHOW, WHICH SONG WAS IT??? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS!!!! Oh, Vickie, the slide's in the mail. Do you have an ETA for the SiGs? Angelos 'I have a Happy poster, and you don't' :-) +=====================================+ |'My ears have parasites'-hApPy RhOdEs| +=====================================+ ======================================================================== Subject: poster ??? Date: Thu, 17 Oct 91 16:31:28 N From: Klaus Kluge > Angelos 'I have a Happy poster, and you don't' :-) Hey, what's on that poster ??? I can't remember that you've mentioned it before. _________________________________________________________ | "Tell me all the plans you have for the great beyond. | | Will you be physical again, or be a cosmic vagabond." | | --- Happy Rhodes --- | | Klaus "cosmic vagabond" Kluge kkluge@Materna.DE | ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Oct 91 10:31:16 PDT From: stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender) Subject: Re: God help me, what have I done? >Steve (at greylady -- i love that) comments on Cynthia on gaffa: Since this once caused a bit of local controversy, I will explain the name "greylady" a bit further: Our computer is called "The Grey Lady", after the nautical nickname for submarines. My former employer called it that because like a submarine, it would go down. (Although actually, it is the most solidly reliable computer I have ever used, even with all the homebrew equipment we've hacked onto it. We love it dearly.) Once a local person thought it was an offensive, ageist, sexist name. I wasn't sure what to think about that, although I explained that it had not been chosen for the surface connotations. ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Oct 91 14:40:14 -0400 From: gb10@gte.com (Gregory Bossert) Subject: Re: Gaffa, flaming, and others > And WHY DOES PRINCE MENTION KATE??? IF HE DID COVER A SONG OF HERS IN A RADIO > SHOW, WHICH SONG WAS IT??? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS!!!! no no. someone on gaffa said he played a KaTe *recording* on a radio show he guest hosted -- it was KaTe's version, not Prince's cover. *i* still hear dijeridu samples on one of the new songs... that and a possibility of KaTe directing a video (i know, it's just a rumor) serve as somewhat of an explanation... hey, wait, this isn't gaffa! :) footah! -greg -- gb10@gte.com -- "but i'm not here" ======================================================================== To join ecto, please send electronic mail to the following address: ecto-request@athos.rutgers.edu To have your thoughts included in the next issue, send mail to: ecto@athos.rutgers.edu To subscribe to "Ecto", the printed fanzine, send $8 to: Ecto PO Box 11291 New Brunswick, NJ 08906 Ecto is issued 8 times/year, and will include photos and as much material from non-net members as we can get! Donations above the subscription cost are welcomed - all money goes to bringing you better issues! Your "humble pseudo-moderator" -- jessica (jessica@athos.rutgers.edu)