Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #842 ecto, Number 842 Thursday, 4 November 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: Stuff that occurred to me late last night and other stories Stuff that occurred to me late last night and other stories Re:the New KaTe/klausing about heinlein/sf/gorey/and fripp only knows what else Tower late night Re: on the other hand mailing list textual revisionism Gorey A note from Susanne White textual revisionism ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 15:53:59 PST From: dixon@physics.berkeley.edu (David Dixon) Subject: Re: Stuff that occurred to me late last night and other stories Mitch queried: > How di the dummy referendum turn out? For those of you not in the know, a SF police officer who uses a dummy on his daily rounds (named 'Bobbie') was prohibited from doing his ventriloquism thang on the streets of SF by his superiors. It went to the voters as a referendum, and passed in favor of Bobbie *barely*. A ventriloquist police officer.. hmm... "You have the right to remain silent.." "Ahh! I saw your lips move!" :) D^2 ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 18:00:06 CST From: lusky@sol.hc.ti.com (Steve Lusky) Subject: Stuff that occurred to me late last night and other stories Mitch rolls on: THE ROLLING MILLS OF NEW JOISEY Cute ditty, plus extensions. While playing Loreena McKennitt's "All Souls Night" in commemoration of the Did anyone hear the lady singing traditional Scottish and English music on NPR last night? Wish I could remember who it was, but it sounded reminiscent of Loreena. This, in turn, reminded me of J.T. McCutcheon's 1910 art-with-words piece in the _Chicago Tribune_, "Injun Summer," in which an old raconteur is explaining to his grandson that the color changes of fall foliage are functions of the ghosts of Indians that still hang out in the open spaces. Red leaves are due to warpaint rubbing off said ghosts, piles of fallen leaves are really ectoplasmic teepees, the ghosts use the piles of burning leaves for ritual campfires... My parents had a color newspaper copy (from Newark, I think) of this piece. It is accompanied by two sketches, one of the man and his grandson looking over a campfire to a field of haystacks, and the other a transformation of the first, with the haystacks turned into dancing indians, the smoke dancing and so on. My translation of the handwritten words follow. Thinking Happy thoughts, and Enjoying a bit of Injun Summer, Steve Sunday News, October 2, 1949 INJUN SUMMER Yep, Sunny, this is sure enough Injun Summer. Don't know what that is, I reckon, do you? Well, that's when all the homesick Injuns come back to play. You know, a long time ago, long afore yer granddaddy was born even, there used to be heaps of Injuns around here--thousands--millions, I reckon, far as that's concerned. Reg'lar sure 'nough Injuns--none o' yer cigar store Injuns, not much. They wuz all around here--right here where you're standin'. Don't be skeered--hain't none around here now, leastways no live ones. They been gone this many a year. They all went away and died, so they ain't no more left. But every year, 'long about now, they all come gback, leastways their sperrits do. They're here now. ou can see 'em off across the field. Look real hard. See that kind o' hazy, misty look out yojnder? Well, them's Injuns--Injun sperrits marchin'along an' dandin' in the sunlight. That's what makes that kind o' haze that's everywhere--it's jest the sperrits of the Injuns all come back. They're all around us now. See off yonder; see them tepees? They kind o' look like corn shocks from here a foot high. See 'em now? Sure, I knowed you could. Smell that smoke sort o' smell in the air? That's the Injun fires a-burnin' and their pipes a-smokin'. Lots o' people say it's just leaves a burnin', but it ain't. It's the campfires, an' th' Injuns are hoppin' 'round 'em t' beat the old Harry. You jest come out here tonight when the moon is hangin' over the hill off yonder an' the harvest fields is all swimmin' in th' moonlight, an' you can see the Injuns and the tepees jest as plain as kin be. You can, eh? I knowed you would after a little while. Jever notice how the leaves turn red 'bout this time o' year? That's jest another sign o' redskins. That's when an old Injun sperrit gits tired dancin' an' goes up an' squats on a leaf t' rest. Why, I kin hear 'em rustlin' an' whisperin' an' creepin' 'round among the leaves all the time; an' ever' once'n a while a leaf gives way under some fat old Injun ghost and comes floatin' down to the ground. See--here's one now. See haow red it is? That's the war paint rubbed off'n an Injun ghost, sure's you're born. Purty soon all the Injuns'll go marchin' away agin, back to the happy hunting ground, but next year you'll see 'em troopin' back--th' sky il' be hazy with 'em and their campfilres smolderin' away jest like they are now. (Illustrations and test copyright : 1912 By Jonh T. McCutheon) ======================================================================== Subject: Re: the New KaTe/klausing about heinlein/sf/gorey/and fripp only knows what else Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 16:49:27 PST From: Eli Brandt > From: mojzes@monet.rutgers.edu (brni) > there is something terribly wrong with the mailer. it lets > mail into my mailbox, but refuses to send anything i write. It doesn't always let mail into your mailbox, either. Let me try this again: I think the author of _Snowcrash_ is Stephenson or Stevenson or Stephensen or Stevensen or possibly some further variant thereupon. Eli It said: > Your message could not be delivered to >'mojzes@monet.rutgers.edu (host: monet.rutgers.edu) (queue: smtp)' for the following >reason: ' ... User unknown' (looks like MXing is broken, maybe) ======================================================================== From: snpf@ugcs.caltech.edu (The Duchess Of York) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 18:52:28 -0800 Subject: Tower late night In general, for all your information, if a Tower is having a late-night sale, they stay open until about 1am, depending on how many people come in. There is usually (always?) a promotional 'gift' of some sort for the stalwart past-midnighters. Stickers, t-shirts, free cd (like Dream 6 w/ concrete blonde) ok? ok. -seanympf ======================================================================== From: snpf@ugcs.caltech.edu (The Duchess Of York) Subject: Re: on the other hand Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 18:59:07 -0800 (PST) neal copperman ses > How did Laurie Anderson ever get it into her head that she couldn't sing, and > needed to learn? I thought her older stuff was brilliant, but it seems to me > like she has been re-presenting the same stuff, with nary a new idea in sight > for the last (large) number of years. Strange Angels was kind of different, > but I still preferred her speaking, and even singing, before she took voice > lessons. Ironically, she's trying to learn and improve, right? > "Nightmare Before Christmas" was visually exciting, but not too much else for > me. (stuff deleted) > wasn't the moral something like don't try to grow and expand, but learn to accept > yourself as you are? (OK, accepting yourself is fine, but Jack had to limit > himself to that area that he already knew and understood, rather than expanding > his horizons.) To me, the moral was to not mess up other people's jobs and work, especially without asking, especially when you don't know what you're doing. I mean, he had santa clause kiddnapped! And then ...well, never asked him or talked to him about what he was doing. I don't agree with your moral, i.e. that he had to accept himself and limit himself. Also, he was what he was, and doing a differnt hholiday didn't change his behavior--he still was scaring people.. :) -seanympf ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 21:58:08 -0500 (EST) From: Julie scott Subject: mailing list Heard about the Happy Rhoads mailing list and would like to have my name added to it. Please send info to: jscott@andy.bgsu.edu Thanks! ======================================================================== From: snpf@ugcs.caltech.edu (The Duchess Of York) Subject: textual revisionism Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 19:31:14 -0800 (PST) Well, how can I resist? brni writes :this is not a flame.... > i'm curious about the author(s) of _snowcrash_ so i can find it > in a library or bookstore. Joan Vinge. Her husband writes interesting stuff too. Same last name. > > this is not a flame: > i think that jeff already mentioned this, but i might as well > chime in. i think that textual revisionism is a bad thing. Know what? I don't. Because languaage is always changing. I'm more of the view of the descriptionists, rather than prescriptionists. Certainly, to be true to the spelling or text from which it was taken may be important. But in the case of spelling womyn differently it doesn't change the meaning at all, whereas in the case of the egyptians being/or not being black-africans changes the meaning. I think change is a good thing, and I really don't see why changing language (english) so that it isn't sexist is such a big deal. Why is it such an 'evil' thing to do? I'm just taking the 'men' out of womyn :) :) :) *grin* Change happens. Know what? I hate -Omni- the magazine. It corrupts and fantasizzes reality....Something. -seanympf the animated ======================================================================== Subject: Gorey Date: Wed, 03 Nov 93 22:49:19 -0500 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu A few folks have been talking about Edward Gorey and where to find stuff. I'll throw in the suggestion of DC's (and presumanly Baltimore's and Rehobeth's) Lambda Rising, a gay bookstore. In addition to _Amphigorey_ and _Amphigorey, Too_, I've seen a few of his little books for sale (including that incredible one about the Couch, the title of which I can't think of). I suppose in cities other than those listed above, it might be worthwhile to check out the local LGB bookstore. Being a gay author, Gorey's stuff does tend to be carried by them. ;-) Jeff (who is rather fond of the Gashleycrumb Tinies, not to mention |>oug Allen's wonderful l-h reworking of a few years ago) |Jeffrey C. Burka | "When I look in the mirror, I see a little clearer/ | |SAFH Lite [tm] | I am what I am and you are you too./ Do you like | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | what you see? Do you like yourself?" --N. Cherry | ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 19:40 EST From: robert@deepspace.nj00802.sai.com (Robert Lovejoy) Subject: A note from Susanne White Hi there! Susanne got back to me today regarding the ad idea, and again, she earnestly requests that we refrain. She sends ecto her deepest thanks for the idea, but would truly prefer that we do not place an ad for Happy in any magazine. She did mention that they are in the process of putting together for Pulse anyway. So please, we have to drop the ad idea. However, I thought of something else we could do WRT Pulse, and it would be free. You know how Pulse always has a section of Desert Island Discs? Why don't we ectophiles, in the month of our birthday, send Pulse a DID list that has at least one Happy disc. Spread out over a year, that would turn a few heads there! As for the Christmas project, I guess it's back to square one. Cookies? Guitar Strings? Ah, well. I'm sorry they don't want us to place or pay for an ad; I like the idea myself, but such is the request. I do like the DID idea, though, so let me know if that resonates with you all! Looks like I have to break out the old bass again for the tape! BTW, Doug, I will get some stuff off to you soon. I have Happy's recent appearance on WXPN, smooshed finger and all, and I'm still looking forward to the HBP! So, that's it for now. Talk to you later! Bob, the bridge too far... ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 23:10:33 EST From: jessica Subject: Re: textual revisionism seanympf writes: > Well, how can I resist? > brni writes :this is not a flame.... > > > i'm curious about the author(s) of _snowcrash_ so i can find it > > in a library or bookstore. > Joan Vinge. Her husband writes interesting stuff too. Same last name. No.. it is Neal Stephenson (or Neil Stephenson. or stephensen. something on that line, but with ph not v.) (unless there are two books of this title. the one i'm talking about is about computers and viruses in the future that can infect the human brain. > I'm just taking the 'men' out of womyn :) :) :) *grin* should we change the word "human" to "humyn" too?? I usually avoid talking about "womyn" and other such terms. In my mind, the use of the word "man" (and "men" too) to describe all people regardless of sex, is perfectly reasonable. I have no problem when people use it that way. I have no problem with the terms "policeman" or "fireman". I don't think of them as having *anything* to do with those people being male, I think of them as being "person who polices" or "person who fights fires". Of course, the problem is, it doesn't seem that there are many others who think that way. so, well i could get into a whole discussion on language and life and all, but I won't :) jessica || falafel, || It is this || Don't try to tell me there's no reason for || || falafel, || that brings || any moment in time, every memory of mine. || || falafel, || us together. || Those years are lines of color on my face, || ||BaBaGanough|| --Kate || the past is warpaint. --Happy Rhodes || ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 21:03:44 PST From: stevev@miser.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender) Subject: textual revisionism The Duchess Of York writes: > Well, how can I resist? > brni writes :this is not a flame.... > > > i'm curious about the author(s) of _snowcrash_ so i can find it > > in a library or bookstore. > Joan Vinge. Her husband writes interesting stuff too. Same last name. > > > > this is not a flame: > > i think that jeff already mentioned this, but i might as well > > chime in. i think that textual revisionism is a bad thing. > Know what? I don't. Because languaage is always changing. I'm more > of the view of the descriptionists, rather than prescriptionists. > Certainly, to be true to the spelling or text from which it was taken > may be important. But in the case of spelling womyn differently > it doesn't change the meaning at all, whereas in the case of the > egyptians being/or not being black-africans changes the meaning. I just sent seanympf a rather grumpy reply to this, but I consider her rationale for using "womyn" unsupportable. I don't think it's a good idea to put words in the mouths of people of the past, as if we can retroactively correct their mistakes and thereby prevent ourselves from having to learn the lessons they learned. I thought the idea of spelling the word "womyn" was that it removed the characters "men" which some feel has a sexist connotation to it whenever it refers to people. Therefore the change in spelling _is_ reflecting a change in meaning. > I think change is a good thing, and I really don't see why changing > language (english) so that it isn't sexist is such a big deal. Why > is it such an 'evil' thing to do? I'm all for avoiding sexist phrasing -- although it depends on what you consider sexist. Why is it "evil" to try to change language? It isn't evil, but it is arrogant to think that you can change it all by yourself. Language reflects culture; changing language will not necessarily change the culture. It is important to understand how people actually use language rather than try to force everyone to use it the same way, but it is also important to avoid capricious change and encourage standardization so that we can understand each other _and_ understand authors of the past. -- stevev the annoyed at fuzzy language and fuzzy thinking ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)