19-Nov-91 21:45:11-GMT,51799;000000000401 Received: from athos.rutgers.edu by aramis.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.4/3.08) id AA05137; Tue, 19 Nov 91 16:25:56 EST Received: by athos.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.4/3.08) id AA02337; Tue, 19 Nov 91 16:25:53 EST Date: Tue, 19 Nov 91 16:25:53 EST Message-Id: <9111192125.AA02337@athos.rutgers.edu> Errors-To: owner-ecto@athos.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@athos.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@athos.rutgers.edu From: ecto@athos.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@athos.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #51 ecto, Number 51 Tuesday, 19 November 1991 Today's Topics: *-----------------* well, I s'pose it's that time again... Ecto product correction this 'n that mind hernias "Suspended In Ecto" (Ecto SIG) Update More on Laurie Freelove (review & NYC date added) More quick ones Re: Carrie Performance Specification Stuff [tm] Re: Happy and Kate Musings of a Part-time Pop-Musical Theorist :-) An Irishman with nothing better to do what I said (or what I think I said...) ======================================================================== Subject: well, I s'pose it's that time again... Date: Sun, 17 Nov 91 19:22:12 EST From: jeffy@lewhoosh.umd.edu Le'see. I am: 5'10", 12.5 stones (hmmm. would one say "x stone" or "x stones" or is there some abbreviation, or what?), fairly dark complected, hair currently weighing in between 1.5 and 2 feet (well, okay, it's rather closer to 1.5' but I'm working on it!) and black, and my grey (supposedly silver) hyundai has a red pinstripe on it, not to mention some black trim, which means it goes very well with the cute stuffed Eeyore velcroed to the dashboard (courtesy of Sears). I'm currently unattached. No tattoos, piercings or other sorts of body-adornments. Due to my complexion and hair, I'm asked if I'm native american roughly once every 3 days--I'm not. Last week I got to set up a nice 256-tone greyscale scanner at the place where I'm temping. There's a relatively good chance I'll have a little while to play with it tomorrow, so I'm going to take the Happy covers with me. No complaints about Jessica's scans, but I think I might be able to get better GIFs of Volume I and Volume II. Who knows? If I can dig up a decent picture, I'll also scan one of myself for Martin's extensional project. Of course, it would be a good idea to wait for archive space before I do anything with that! Jeff (who had to work today (blech) and now needs to go eat dinner) |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true | | | Time for you to / Be who you are." | |jeffy@lewhoosh.umd.edu | --Happy Rhodes | ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1991 14:22 +8:00 From: SVODOPIER@cc.curtin.edu.au Subject: Ecto product correction Meredith says: >Martin, your New products had me snarfing all over my keyboard. I almost >shorted the whole thing out with my spit. Yum. :) Whether or not snarfing is a good response to the new products, I should correct you on their author. It was Mitch, not me, Martin. But hey, we're all M's. :-) I did a few earlier but in terms of development they were like Mitch's as a kiosk is like a department store. Actually, Mitch, maybe you could turn your prodigious marketing and bureaucratic talents to exploiting and streamlining those earlier ideas and incorporating them into the main stream : > Jingles: > > Ode - Rexona anti-perspirant > The Perfect Irony - multi-vitamin pills > 'Til the Dawn breaks - condoms ( "dawn may break, but these won't" ) > I'm Not Awake, I'm Not Asleep - sleeping pills / Dan Quayle's theme song. > Don't Want to Hear It - earplugs > Wrong Century - calendar/organizer > I am a Legend - metropolitan street directory > I Won't Break Down - laundry detergent And of course the originals from Vickie: > "Words Weren't Made For Cowards" - Encyclopedia Britannica? > "Feed The Fire" - charcoal briquettes > "He's Alive" - 700 Club :-) :-) > "I'm Going Back" - Disneyland, or an airline commercial Which of course followed from Happy's original fears: > "Waking Up" - Folger's or Maxwell House coffee Martin ,---------------------------------------+---------------------------. _ . | Oh, get to the point you sappy wimps / Martin Dougiamas. / _r| Ll\ | I haven't got a lot of time / sdougiama@cc.curtin.edu.au / | | \ | Simplicity is beauty / Curtin University / \ |_ / | Are there poets less sublime? / Perth, Western Australia --/--> X~ `-' `======== * Happy Rhodes * ========+============================' V ======================================================================== Subject: this 'n that Date: Sun, 17 Nov 91 23:07:54 EST From: jeffy@lewhoosh.umd.edu Vickie sez: ...lots of interesting things about herself and why they helped combine to make her love _Carrie_ so much. The concept of the miserable put-upon "kid" (of varying ages) getting "even" is pretty common in King's material. Off the top of my head, we have Carrie, what's-her-name in _Firestarter_ (which was one of my favorite King books from about '83 'til '86...along with 'salem's lot), Arnie in _Christine_ (an interesting one, though, in that instead of reveling in the payback, the reader is, instead, horrified at what this poor carrie has become), and, in much the same way, Harold Lauder, and back to the proper feel-good aspect, all of the kids in _It_ (superb!), to a lesser extent Walking Jack, etc. ad nauseam. You really startled me when you mentioned your son. Something I never would have guessed. Thanks for writing your wonderful article... re: The Stand >eff, you should read the "Uncut" version at least once, so >you'll have the holes filled in (such as Tom "seeing the elephant") but then >read the originalthe next time you want to re-read The Stand for pleasure. I *want* to read the uncut version. However, I don't want to buy the paper- back, can't afford a hardcover, and have been unable to find it in a public library. Which was why I re-read the cut version. Unfortunately, that means I want to wait another couple of months before I even consider rereading it. >Don't buy it, because you own the original, just check it out of the library. Oh. I just explained this. I don't really "own" the original. I have a paperback of it that showed up from somewhere (I think my little sister found it somewhere, but it's not her type of book...it ended up sitting on my bookshelf). Unfortunately, I started reading King when I was but a wee lad and checked his books out of the library. _Pet Sematary_ was the first one I bought in hardcover as soon as it came out, and I think i have every hardcover since then. I think I have paperbacks of _The Stand_ and _Christine_ but I don't think I even own copies of his other early books. Oh! Of course, I have the paperback _Danse Macabre_ and the Bachman books compilation (which only sort-of count as early). >btw, have you ever read any of Tabitha King's books? Um, one of 'em...Small World or whatever it was called. I wasn't crazy about it, so I never got around to trying any of her others. Of course, that was a *long* time ago, so.... Sorry it's taken me so long to respond to this...things have had a tendency of getting lost in my mailbox lately... (BTW, while I'm on the mailbox subject, here's something for Woj: no, I didn't write a digest-exploder. However, the mail system I use on this unix box, "mh", has a burster as one its sub-programs. I don't remember who it was who said he'd written scripts to handle it...) Jeff ======================================================================== Subject: mind hernias Date: Sun, 17 Nov 91 23:11:45 EST From: jeffy@lewhoosh.umd.edu Court sez: >kIrI: this doesnt pertain to Ecto..anyway..the window is shutting...today >is the year..Nov 13..and you were right..i DO like the masochism too well!!! >(please dont try to interpert that anyone..else you might give yourself a >mind hernia!! hehehehe merow!!!) This caught my eye because it reminds me of me...I *am* going to try to interpret it...you like fresh air/cold and you leave your window open all the time and kIrI said that you were gonna have to shut it 'cause it would get to cold, etc., etc. Out at school, I used to keep my window open, even if only a crack, through the winter. Friends would put on sweaters just to come visit me...;-) "I thrive on the WIND and the rain and the COLD" Jeff (Kiter from hell) ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 04:37 CST From: vickie@chinet.chi.il.us (Vickie Ann Mapes) Subject: "Suspended In Ecto" (Ecto SIG) Update Ok, so you get a reprieve. I thought the last posting of this would be, in fact, the last posting of this, but then I found out that there was a chance to get the songs performed for the WXPN interview and I held off finishing the show. Now it seems that I will get the entire WXPN interview so I will add it on. But, this really *is* your... *** LAST CHANCE * LAST CHANCE * LAST CHANCE * LAST CHANCE * LAST CHANCE *** Vickie here. Here is the list so far of people who have requested a copy of the Ecto SIG. This is your last chance for your name to be included within the show itself. After it's recorded, I won't be making any changes to it. Latecomers can get dubs, of course, but they won't be hearing their name mentioned on tape. After the list I will re-post my original letter (edited and re-worked), as a reminder of what it's all about and to inform new Ectophiles. If your name is not on this list and you want the SIG, please mail me or post ASAP. More details at the end of this post. * - Sent request to be added to the list ** - I have received tape(s) in the mail *** - I have received money to buy a tape Barger, Jorn barger@ils.nwu.edu................*** Bloom, Brian brianb@natinst.com................** Bossert, Gregory gb10@gte.com......................** Bur, Justin justin@crim.ca....................** Burka, Jeff jeffy@lewhoosh.umd.edu............* Burks, Doug dbx@olympic.atmos.colostate.edu...** Dallas, Courtney EX2DALLAS@vax.swansea.ac.uk.......** Dembski, Jessica jessica@athos.rutgers.edu.........** Fagg, Steve S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk................*** Hargie, Kirstin hargie@chinet.chi.il.us...........** Johnson, Tom tj@cs.ucla.edu....................** Kluge, Klaus kkluge@Materna.DE.................*** Kyrlidis, Angelos kyrlidis@athena.mit.edu...........** Lubkin, David gargoyle!apollo.com!lubkin.........* Lueck, Jeff jlueck@nuacvm.acns.nwu.edu........** Malman, Joel .........** Martin Dougimas SDOUGIAMA@cc.curtin.edu.au........*** Mendelson, Mike stern@chem.nwu.edu................*** Philipsen, Albert awphili@cs.vu.nl..................*** Pravatiner, Mitch U15289@uicvm.bitnet...............** Relph, John M. relph@presto.ig.com...............** Sady, Gene gsady@gaffa.intel.com.............** Schreiter, Jeanne B. shark@csd4.csd.uwm.edu............** Segel, Daniel danielse@xstor.com................** Somerstein, Rodney rodneys@apple.com.................* Steiner, Dave steiner@bakerst.rutgers.edu.......* Tao, Sammy Sammy.Tao@speech1.cs.cmu.edu......** Tarr, Meredith MTARR@eagle.wesleyan.edu..........** VanDevender, Steve stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu.......* Woiccak, Rob (woj) woj@remus.rutgers.edu.............** Wong, Barry wong1@rpi.edu.....................** If there is any sort of discrepancy in this list, please e-mail me. I may have heard from you and forgotten to write it down, or never received your letter or tape. ============================================================================ Ecto SIG Info ============= Shortly after Ecto started, Angelos ran a poll to (among other things) see what songs we liked best. These songs were chosen as favorites by the people who responded to Angelos' Poll: Oh the Drears..................Rhodes Vol. I Warpaint.......................Warpaint Would that I could.............Ecto Possessed......................Rhodes Vol. I Til the Dawn Breaks............Rearmament To live in your world..........Warpaint If love is a game, I win.......Ecto Feed the Fire..................Warpaint Off from out from under me.....Ecto Noone here.....................Rhodes Vol. II Poetic Justice.................Ecto I am a legend..................Rearmament Don't want to hear it..........Ecto In hiding......................Warpaint Come Here......................Rhodes Vol. II Under and over the brink.......Rhodes Vol. II When I saw this list my first thought was "Drears is #1...great!" My second thought was "I'd love to do a show based on this list" (I have a radio show called "Suspended In Gaffa") My third thought was "I just did 2 Happy specials not very long ago" Which led to the idea currently rattling around in my brain. I'll do a show, not for airplay, but for the people here on Ecto! An all-Happy Rhodes show. I will tape it exactly as if it were for broadcast, but make it more personalized, speaking to you people. You'll be my audience! Besides playing the above songs, in the order presented, I will also throw in a few other interesting things. If you'd like a copy of this tape, I need for you to send a blank 100 min. tape, along with enough stamps for the return postage. There's no charge, of course, but it would help me to not have to pay out a lot of money for blank tapes and postage. If you can't find a 100 minute tape (some places still don't carry them) then just send a few dollars and I'll buy one for you. $4.00 should cover a tape, a puff package for return delivery and return postage in North America. Overseas Ectophiles should discuss this with me via e-mail, if you haven't already. I need to know how many of you want in on this. Let me know as soon as possible, please, if you haven't already. If anyone wants to relate to me a short story (what it means to you, first impressions, etc.) about any of the songs on the Poll list, or dedicate one of the songs to anyone special, or say a personal message to other Ectophiles or to Happy, please do. Send me your message and I'll incorporate it into the show. This is your show! My address is: Vickie Mapes 1627 W. Farwell, #2N Chicago, IL 60626 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ UPDATE I will be cutting out some of the songs above in order to include the entire WXPN interview. The ETA on getting that interview is uncertain, whenever Kevin gets a dub from WXPN he will make me a copy. I will then re-order the SIG to fit it in. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Vickie katefans@chinet.chi.il.us ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 09:40:33 PST From: barry@gnu.ai.mit.edu Hi Everybody, Since we've been talking about Kate so such lately, I figured I might as well ask a question about Kate. Well, here it goes, awhile back I either heard or read something that said that Kate was a witch. real witch. That she actually practiced witchcraft and stuff. I recently remberedembered this, I guess because Halloween was only a few weeks ago. She's suppose to be like a "GOOD" witch. :) Anyhow, thought I'd just add this bit of trivial info. Anyhow, anyone else hear ever hear this before? Yeah, I know it sounds stupid, but I figured what the hell, maybe someone else has heard this before. Barry ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 05:20 CST From: vickie@chinet.chi.il.us (Vickie Ann Mapes) Subject: More on Laurie Freelove (review & NYC date added) Vickie here. Here's a review of Laurie Freelone's album that Mitch gave me. I also realized I forgot to include a tour date in New York City, which is either Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday. I don't know how the dates got so messed up on the itinerary. Anyway, Laurie will be playing at the Bitterend in New York. Monday Nov 19 Washington DC The Birchmere Tuesday Nov 20 Boston, MA Nightstage Friday Nov 23 Philadelphia JC Dobbs Sunday Nov 25 Atlanta, GA The Point (again, don't trust these days or dates, call the venue) ....................................................................... Chicago Tribune, Thursday Nov. 14, 1991 Reviewed by Greg Kot Laurie Freelove Smells Like Truth *** (3 stars) Freelove, is a Texas songwriter whose extravagantly persona debut album orbits 3 worlds: the ghostly, open-tuned guitars of Joni Mitchell's "Hejira," the Celtic New Age of Enya and the big-beat sensuality of Kate Bush. Although she occasionally sounds foolish pondering the imponderable, her quivering alto and the intoxicating arrangements make for a compelling listen. Freelove pretty much sticks to pensive meditations (one exception is a brisk, folkish collaboration with Boo Hewerdine on "O My Heart"), yet her performances are frequently disquieting: This deceptively low-key album isn't one for the wine-and-cheese crowd. The hymn to heartbreak, Tim Buckley's "Song to the Siren," with which she closes the album, is one for the ages. ........................................................................... Vickie ps, I don't think she "sounds foolish" at all, but otherwise, this is a very nice review. ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 05:11 CST From: vickie@chinet.chi.il.us (Vickie Ann Mapes) Subject: More quick ones Vickie here. Hello to Cathy! I was saying right after that storm hit you that it passed Chicago right on by, and was wondering if there were any Ectophiles from the Mpls area. Thanks for posting, and I hope you get some good X-country snow soon. Hello to Jim! Loved your post! Believe me, I know that being a Unix newbie is no fun at all, but soon you will have the hang of things and will be able to do all those neat things you were wondering about. Hello to Perttu! Good to hear from you, and I'm so sorry we weren't home when you were in Chicago :-( :-( because it would have been so nice to have you over to the house. Thanks for posting and telling you Happy story, it was wonderful to hear. Justin, thanks for the info on Mary Margaret O'Hara for Alan. I meant to post but hadn't gotten around to writing anything up yet. Catherine O'Hara was on the TV show SCTV and in the films _After Hours_, _Home Alone_, and _Beetlejuice_ among many others. Tom Johnson, I keep sending you the post you wanted (actually the whole file) and it keeps bouncing on me. I sent a short note, thinking that it was the length of the file that was causing the problems, but that bounced too. Any ideas? Jeff Burka, I will write about Jennifer Furgeson, really. Jessica, thank you for your posting on Carrie and the personal story. Congratulations to your mother. Mitch, I was on the floor wat the "Fast Times at Boomdidiwana High" Subject Line and post. As usual, your posts are fascinating and funny. oops ("with" the...) I still don't have this on-line editing stuff down. "Fuzzy Blue Vickie" line of thermal lingerie sounds goo, and I think I'll be needing some myself soon. Alan, I will write about Toni Childs, really. I thought I ws going to get a lot done this weekend, but didn't get anything done. I'm pretty well backed up on the digests, and there are lots of things still to answer. Chris has been going to town ftping stuff from all over the world, trying out new programs, and just having a ball with our new ftp/gif toys. We need 2 computers :-) Ectophiles I met last year in London: Gregory Bossert Mark Semich Larry Hernandez Justin Bur Meredith Tarr Stephen Thomas Steve Fagg Jorn, of course, but we knew each other before London. Actually I had also met Larry before London too. Was there anyone on Ecto I missed? Justin reminded me that I had played Happy at the Ann Elizabeth House before we all went to the Italian restaurant. I totally forgot! Court, Kiri took care of your tape for the Ecto SIG so don't worry about it. I apoligise for jumping on you (I was actually jumping on the author you mentioned) about the mandatory vegetarian bit. Michy, your friend didn't call last week, but I hope she does get a chance to hear SIG and call and say hi. There's so much more I want to say, but I'm falling asleep at the keyboard. Later... Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 09:03:41 MST From: dbx@olympic.atmos.colostate.edu (Doug Burks) Subject: Re: Carrie Greetings, A continuation of the Carrie thread in which we close the circle from Carrie to Happy: "... and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant. They too have their story." I'm not going into detail about my own 'Carrie' experiences. Mine didn't involve the outright hostility given to the fictional Carrie and the real Vickie and Court. I was simply ignored, no matter what I did, a much more comfortable hell. My own extreme shyness, moody personality (problems which still plague me), and frequent moving (nine different schools in eleven years) didn't help matters. By the time I hit eighteen, I had prepared for my suicide twice, but failed to push the button (so to speak). However, that is not the point of this post. At the time, I felt like no one else had ever had a similar problem. I bore the whole weight of the world on my shoulders all by myself. Of course, I wasn't and didn't. Polls even claim that one-sixth of all teen-agers get as close to suicide as I did. The older I get and the more people I talk with, the more I realize that neither people with problems nor their problems are unique. As Alan noted, most people reading this can probably chip in similar tales. (Though I disagree with his reason, as my guess is that the percentage of computer-geeks on this list is fairly low. It certainly wasn't an escape for my teen problems. I didn't see my first computer until I was twenty-three!) Had I been able to realize that others, many others, had gone through similar crises and lived, things might have been more bearable. While the problems may not be unique, how people deal with and bear their problems definitely show the quality of a person. Let's look at the Carrie problem. Most Carries would try to join and impress the group that persecutes them. However, that is futile. They'll never forget who you _really_ are. You'll never be able to impress them. Someone will always be more hip, a better jock, more macho, a better ladies man, etc. A smaller group of Carries would wear their persecution on their sleeve, constantly bitching and moaning about their fate, fishing for pity or sympathy. (Of course, the 'real' Carrie was part of an even smaller group who wreaks revenge on her tormentors. In that way lies madness.) Both of these are the easy way out. Yet there is something you can do that no one else can do better than you. Be yourself. Almost sounds hokey, doesn't it? Yet peer pressure makes it damned tough and damned unpopular to do. However, it is true, and probably the best goal for long-term personal happiness. Does this sound familiar? Not yet? Well, let me recast the phrases. A society cannot stand a truly genuine man or You can't know them like you know yourself Therefore find your peace Demand only from yourself Happy certainly was a Carrie in her teens. Her lyrics are filled with the effects of her trying to deal with it. She certainly helps me realize that I wasn't alone in my problems. Many of her songs hit very, very close to me, giving voice to feelings I had at the time and still try to deal with today. While they deal with the dark or sad side of the problems, a good many of them include a sign of hope, a sliver of sunshine amid the dreck. Not only do Happy's songs say "You are not alone", they say "You can overcome". The means towards overcoming the problems is to be yourself and to face society on your own terms, not its. In fact, she goes to the extreme that the more society dumps on you, the better you are doing. Just read through "One Alien" again, a song that impresses me the more I hear it. In some ways, this warm fuzzy blue mailing list serves similar purposes, reflecting the music we're devoted to. We can show our more personal opinions and stories with a reasonable expectation that not only will they not be ridiculed, but someone may actually support your opinion. It's an odd and valuable asset in this society. Let's keep it! I know I've thanked Vickie in the past for pushing Happy's music so hard that I finally had to find out what the fuss was all about. However, since then, her music has become even more valuable to me at a deep personal level. For that, Vickie deserves another round from me. Vickie, take my early thanks, and cube them! Doug Burks _O_ dbx@olympic.atmos.colostate.edu |< She really is!! ======================================================================== From: foster@magnum.convex.com (Harry Foster) Subject: Performace Specification Date: Sat, 16 Nov 91 16:49:46 CST Performance Specification for one model: Harry Foster ======================================= Alias: Fuzzy "Hairy" Blue Hair Color: Fuzzy Blue Eyes Color: Fuzzy Blue Shoe size: Fuzzy Swede Blue Main Ingredient: Ectoplasma Birth: Wrong Century Current Status: Waking Up Origin: One Alien Goals: To Be E. Mortal Residence: In Hiding Occupation: Rainkeeper Socializes with: Moonbeam Friends Request: To Live In Your World Self Description: I Am A Legend __ _____ _______ __ / /_/ / _ \/ / _ \ \/ / / __ / _ / / _ /\ / Fuzzy /_/ /_/_//_/_/_/ \_\/_/ Blue -- Harry Foster foster@convex.com "A man should be greater than some of his parts." -Peter DeVries ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 16 Nov 91 11:55:33 -0600 From: foster@magnum.convex.com (Harry Foster) Subject: Performance Specification Performance Specification for one model: Harry Foster ======================================= Alias: Fuzzy "Hairy" Blue Hair Color: Fuzzy Blue Eyes Color: Fuzzy Blue Shoe size: Fuzzy Swede Blue Main Ingredient: Ectoplasma Birth: Wrong Century Current Status: Waking Up Origin: One Alien Goals: To Be E. Mortal Residence: In Hiding Occupation: Rainkeeper Socializes with: Moonbeam Friends Request: To Live In Your World Self Description: I Am A Legend __ _____ _______ __ / /_/ / _ \/ / _ \ \/ / / __ / _ / / _ /\ / Fuzzy /_/ /_/_//_/_/_/ \_\/_/ Blue -- Harry Foster foster@convex.com "A man should be greater than some of his parts." -Peter DeVries ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 11:39:38 MST From: dbx@olympic.atmos.colostate.edu (Doug Burks) Subject: Stuff [tm] Greetings, Well, I think I have my Happy Gift Project song: "Tapestry" by Carole King. I'm still not clear about the tape. Who do we send it to and when? Court complains about the time lag of Ecto: I can sympathize with you a bit. CSU's network news feed is in the same shape. By the time I get an article, the thread is already over!! If this keeps up, I may switch to the love-hounds mailing list from rec.music.gaffa. Re Gael Baudino: I read a few of her early short stories and loved them, one of which was a heartbreaking story which would have fit in our 'Carrie' thread very well. (By the way, thanks to everyone who has given their Carrie story. I sure hope no psychiatrists are reading this list. :-) ). Since then, I haven't kept an eye open for her novels, (though it's on my list of things to read, a list as long as my list of albums to get). The strongest negative I've heard about her is that she occasionally slides into the 'All men are scum' school of feminist ranting. I intend to find out about it myself sometime. Finally, this is not Happy news, but happy news here in Fort Collins. For over six years, the local paper has carried a front page box much like today's: "Day 2354. Thomas Sutherland of Fort Collins has been held captive in Lebanon since June 9, 1985". We hope and pray that the news is right, and Day 2354 will be his last. Doug Burks _O_ dbx@olympic.atmos.colostate.edu |< She really is!! ======================================================================== From: guetzlaf@gravity.cray.com (Cathy Guetzlaff) Subject: Re: Happy and Kate Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 11:15:59 CST This is me >> This is Martin > >>I don't know much about Happy and her music but I like what I've heard so >>far. By the way, is it rather odd to really like Happy but not Kate Bush? > >I wouldn't think so, once you get past the superficial similarities, >they really are very different. > >But just out of interest, what of Kate's have you heard? This is me again... A number of years ago (10 maybe...) a friend of mine was absoluletly mad for Kate. He let me borrow one of her albums (Hounds of Love?) so I could see what all the fuss was about. Frankly, my first reaction was "My god, someone has their hands around the poor woman's throat and they *won't let go*!" I just couldn't get past how grating I found her voice, sorta the fingernails- on-the-chalkboard thing, IMHO of course. I do confess I've heard some things since that I've enjoyed -- her contributions to Peter Gabriel's "Don't Give Up" come to mind. Probably what I need is for someone to give me a list of what to listen to and in what order. My only reservation is that I don't care to spend lots of money on Kate's CDs only to find that I *still* don't like her music. It's what I call the Calamari Syndrome -- the first time I had the horrid stuff I hated it -- everyone said it just wasn't cooked the right way, try it some other way. Ok, fine, I gave it another chance -- I've had it breaded, broiled, sauteed, in a red sauce, in a white sauce, with garlic, and I *still* think it tastes like what rubberbands must taste like! So maybe some kind soul would volunteer to make me a tape of what they think is a good progression of Kate's music -- I probably shouldn't just dismiss her music without giving it a proper chance. I'd be happy to send a tape and cover shipping costs. And then Martin gets personal: > >And how much do you weigh? :-) :-) :-) >(Sorry, in-joke of the past few days. Did you catch the "Everything Poll"? :-) > No I missed the "Everything Poll" -- I weigh anywhere from 128 to 137 lbs depending on when dinner was, if Thanksgiving has just passed, whether I've been running, or if it's the dead of winter. Incidentally, our 30" of snow have been rapidly disappearing with the current rain and warm (40ish) weather. Like we always say in Minnesota, if ya don't like the weather, just wait an hour, it'll change! -- Cathy Guetzlaff Cray Research, Inc. guetzlaf@cray.com ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 14:15 GMT From: MEW! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!! forgive me folks but i just read that Jon Drunkman review... i STIL havent recoevered..(wiping laugheter tears out of eyes) GOD that was agood laugh!! and to think that the litle prat actually think we give a shit about HIS opinion?? sorry guys..it pissed me off (enough to use @#$# words).. but at the same time it made me DIE laughing!!! what an ass. well..thats MY opinion of HIS opinion! its just as well the furor over him has already died..his ego is too large anyway!!! lets KEEP the furor over him dead...god...what a laugh! well...thats all i wanted to say...VIckie..too bad you wasted a wonderful tape on him!! but tanx for the "review"(is that what you could call it?) talk to all later!!!!! and if my messages have been bouncing off this account..keep in mind i have a SMALL disk quota space...everytime i fill up with mail.. it bonces a few...but when i read them i whittle it down to "managable" again..thanx... merow! Court! ======================================================================== Date: 18 November 1991 12:46:35 CST From: Subject: Musings of a Part-time Pop-Musical Theorist :-) It may be just as well that drawn-out personal testaments have become trendy in these pages. In this spirit, I now contribute--a day late and a dollar short, naturally--my own responses to assorted stimuli encountered in these pages, and perhaps a few stimuli of my own. I can't help experiencing a sense of irony in the use of the term "stone cold beans" to express a positive evaluation, particularly when it comes out of a city where baked beans are taken seriously. It somehow reminds me of numerous occasions when I have heated things longer than recommended in the microwave, and they have come out too hot to eat initially on the outside-- but stone cold at the center. The initial analyses of popular culture in these pages touched on the dis- dain that some intellectuals express for it--however they may define it. I'm surprised that no one has thought to express this concept in the simple yet enigmatic sentence "PC bashing is PC." With all the different meanings imputed to the initials, it may eventually be necessary to attach fortran-style array subscripts, so the sentence comes out "PC(1) bashing is PC(2)" where 1=pop culture, 2=politically correct, _ad nauseam_. The respect that numerous contributors have expressed for Madonna and her music probably is the most concrete proof that around ecto, one need not bash PC(1) to be considered PC(2). While her music, in general, is obviously quite different than those of Happy, Kate, Jane, and the rest, it certainly is not inferior. Each, in its own way, has much to recommend it. I myself first discovered Madonna's music on the afternoon of Memorial Day, 1984. Having been rained out of a planned trip to the movies, I elected to fill some of the time by watching the video show which a local UHF independent was running on weekday afternoons at the time. That day's episode happened to include the "Borderline" video, to which I responded favorably. I've enjoyed her art (or whatever you want to call it) ever since. My favorite Madonna-connected anecdote goes something like this: one day about 1987, I think it was, several of my colleagues and I were sitting at our respective terminals, when somehow the conversation came around to M(1) (as I shall call her just this once, to avoid becoming repetitive). One of the women in the room took her to task for lacking a social conscience in the face of the numerous problems of the day, declaiming instead such sentiments as "I'm a material girl." (The video, perhaps more than the record, makes it clear that that song's essentially a spoof, but that's neither here nor there.) As fate would have it, I was in possession of an exposed copy of that month's issue of _American Film_ magazine, which--despite hardly being the type of journal to engage in puffery about the likes of Madonna, had her on the cover, and actuall y gave a fairly positive review to her various acting performances. It occurre d to me that should I be fingered as being politically incorrect, I ought to have an escape line. I finally decided that should I be confronted with the question of what I possibly saw in M(1) (OK, so it's just this twice) under the se circumstances, I would be prepared to respond, "I like her belly button." The funny thing is, I actully did. For that matter, I still do. :-) (No other comparable artist I know has ever included hers in her act, as far as I can recall; so I have no basis for comparison.) The recent characterizations of Happy's music in terms of colors, by Marti n and others, is the first time I've seen this sort of thing done since the late 60's, when Laura Nyro reportedly used to perplex her studio musicians with her calls for "blue" or "orange" sounds. (cf. Clive Davis, _Clive: Inside the ord Business_ (Morrow, 1974).) Laura, BTW, is arguably my sentimental favorite in the pantheon of female soloists. Her earlier albums are still available in Columbia's midprice line, and I heartily recommend them to you. Her later al- bums, for some reason, seem to be out of print :-(' , but are well worth snapp- ig up if you stumble onto them in a used record store or something. _In re_ Vickie's characterization of a station in the Bronx as "not a bad one, if it reaches NYC" (Nov. 11), one must not forget that the Bronx is, in fact, one of the five coequal boroughs of the City of New York, even though man y residents of the outer boroughs do cling to the use of "New York City" as a term of art in reference to Manhattan. _In re_ Court's observation (same date as above) that "come here" in Welsh is "dewch yma" it occurs to me that to the linguistically uninformed, it could do double duty as a term of encomium for Sumac the Peruvian, whose albums I have just learned, to my chagrin, are out of print on tape. It is perhaps rea- ssuring that fans of extended vocal range have the likes of Mariah Carey and, naturally, Happy Rhodes to fall back on. (BTW, I didn't say that I was necessarily a fan of extended vocal range myself :-) .) _In re_ Jessica's supplying the datum that WXPN, flagship of the Happy interview network, is an American Public Radio affiliate, "which I assume is a different animal from 'national public radio'": APR is indeed a separate programming service, whose flagship attraction is the Garrison Keillor show. All or most APR affiliates, to my knowledge, are also NPR affiliates. Chances are that all the stations that carried the interview are affiliates, but that most APR stations didn't carry the interview. (The NPR/APR outlet in Chicago, for one, did not.) _In re_ Vickie's November 12 observations on top 40 at the top of the '60s : what are the odds that the Classic Rock of tomorrow will be identical to the Classic Rock of today? Not _in re_ anything in particular published in last week's postings: it has occurred to me that these pages have contained numerous references to cats--both in general, and those of particular contributors or other relevant persons--but essentially no references to dogs. Contrast this with the consis- tent use of the "love-hound" metaphor on the Gaffa side, though I have not know n them to be any more predisposed to discussions of specific dogs than we are. Every year, WFMT in Chicago sponsors a pledge marathon for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra; one of the most beloved features of this is the opportunity to dedic ate one's contribution to either the "dog fund" or the "cat fund," each of whic h has come out on top in particular years. In the unlikely event that a flame war between us and them ever becomes imminent, this suggests itself as vehicle for sublimating the rancorous conflict. Thanks to Martin for setting the record straight on whose new-product idea s are whose. I too am left a little uncertain as to where Meredith stands on my whimsical ramblings; but I feel constrained to point out that penicillin as we know it did have its origins in fuzzy blue stuff. :-) Personal to Kiri (pardon my case-insensitivity, if not my French): "moral entrepeneur" was a concept coined by Howard Becker in _Outsiders_ (Free Press, 1963) to describe those who crusade to impose their particular moral definition s on the population at large (examples: prohibitionists, the PMRC, etc.). While many (I don't know whether or not all) fundies are moral entrepeneurs, the converse is decidedly not the case: note the presence of an anti-porno- graphy (by their own, very inclusive definition) faction on the feminist left, which often seems rather halfhearted in their devotion to the first amendment. Jon Drukman's review was indeed amusing, if nothing else. I am delighted that there are others than myself out there who appreciate the music of Uncle Bonsai. My favorite UB song (not to be confused with UB40) is "Don't Put It In Your Mouth," a mother's laundry list of banal proscriptions to her child, interspersed with exasperated interjections of "you can't be _my_ kid." I once gave it to a colleague who had expressed her admiration for Robert Fulghum's laundry lists of Words To Live By, as learned in kindergarten. She didn't get the point. (Over and above all that, Drukman's rambling and digressive writing style seems to me to be uncannily reminiscent of my own.) Some have already mentioned the possibility of write-in votes for Happy in the next Rolling Stone poll. It would also be worth it to send write-in votes into Playboy's next pop/jazz/etc. poll. I'll have to remember to look up its timing. (No, I don't read it just for the interviews; but its aesth- etics are decidedly inferior to other erotic art and literature I have known.) Last but least: as long as we all seem bent on turning this mailing list into a damn set of personal ads :-), who am I to buck the trend. In this spirit, my particulars, such as they are: I may be one of the few people I know to know for a fact that my birth certificate is wrong: it nominally lists 2:55 AM Central Standard as my birth time, but daylight savi ng was in effect during the season in question, so I was really born at 3:55 AM Central Daylight. The certificate is accurate, however, in listing the place as Lying-In hospital, in the great Fifth Ward of Chicago (where everything is ultimately political, directly or indirectly). (The hospital is specifically at 5841 South, 820 East on the Chicago street grid; I leave it to amateur astrologers of the future to translate the time and place into Greenwich Mean Time and lat-long coordinates, respectively). 5' 8.5" as of the last systemati c measurement, endomorphic somatype, dark blond with traces of gray insidiously insinuating themselves into the sideburns; though this freaks me out far less than my nascent ability to track my cranial arc through the interstices between individual hairs. Fighting the good fight against midlife crisis for over 20 years. My handlers for the respective body parts tell me that as of the last respective consultations my hair and teeth are in no clear and present danger of falling out, nor do I need bifocals. Beyond that, they make no assurances. Not an auto owner, preferring instead to fall back on public transportation and invest the difference in things like Happy Rhodes albums. (I'm still at a loss how to break it to Lueck that he may actually be named after a bus route, the redoubtable #6 Jeffery Express, which I coincidentally ride regularly--the attenuated connections can be found in the damnedest places, can they not? (cf. his "why I am Chip" commentary in his November 11 posting) ) Mild radiculopathy of the c6-c7 interspace on the right side. Currently on leave from my day job as a professional autodidact to serve _pro bono_ as the house humorist, on the slippery slope toward house curmudgeon, for the Ecto mailing list. Active sesquipedalian. Additional information, to quote the final line of my resume, available on request (surely you jest :-) ). Mitch Pravatiner (Ecto's answer to Jon Drukman?) (We do, after all, let the weirdness in.) ____________________________________ "Everybody wants to get into the act." --Jimmy Durante ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1991 21:02 EST From: Generalisimo Llama Subject: An Irishman with nothing better to do Hi guys (and tattooed gals) -- it's Jim again. Well, I haven't killed anyone with a stray e-mail yet, so I'll assume I'm starting to get the hang of this VAX/VMS thingamagigidibob. It's taking me a lot of trial and error, though -- such as spending 2 hours in Internet before I realized that I'd been sending to the toaster over in my dorm instead of Rutgers. Talk about disappointment -- I was having a really nice conversation with it, too. Le sigh... In any case, I'm writing in reponse to a comment made by one of the members not long ago. I would quote it for you -- or even tell you wrote it -- but since A) I lost a good deal of my old mail, and B) I'm a VAXrapalegic without the ability to pull quotes, I can't do either. It was during a posting about Stephen King, and basically said that the overwhelming why most authors write books is for the money. As a struggling writer (hoping to be published one of these days) I am just flabbergasted -- and it takes a lot to get me flabbergasted, believe me you. Especially when I have to look it up in the dictionary first to find out what the hell that word means (and of course, I end up with a Webster's definition like "being in a state of flabbergastation". Gee -- thanks a lot, dictionary-dude...) I know that _I_ don't write for the money -- probably because no one's offering me any, but that's besides the point! Stop trying to change the subject!!!!! But from those writers I've spoken to who HAVE had their work published, $ seems to have nothing to do with it. It's the joy taken in creation -- the ultimate rush for a writer (besides seeing Jesse Helms flogged, of course). The $, if there ever is any, is just a nice little side bonus. If you'd like to see this theory in action, I'd like to ask all of you to send me $120 in small bills over the course of the next week as a donation to my writing career and just SEE what I do with the money. Just a little note: after next week, my VAX account will be moving to a safe hideaway in Eastern Mexico, where I can't be extradited back to the US to face charges on -- oh, I don't know... let me take a wild example -- Grand Theft Larceny over the computer. All hypothetically, of course... "Pray God you can cope..." Jim Flynn ======================================================================== Subject: what I said (or what I think I said...) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 21:50:38 EST From: jeffy@lewhoosh.umd.edu Either I have a very dim recollection of what I wrote or I've now been misinterpreted twice. a) Meredith: I don't recall coming to the conclusion that King sells a lot of books, therefore he's a good writer. I merely pointed out that saying that he quipped what he qupped in your Aunt's class does not make him less of an artist, nor less 'honorable' or whatever. You turned that around to mean that he *must* be good to be in his position. There's no question that's false logic. As many others have pointed out, there are plenty of authors who sell far too many books than is consistent with their "talent." b) Jim: I did not say that most writers are only in it for the money. I said that there are recognized-as-great writers who wrote specifically to earn money. My example was Dr. Samuel Johnson, who is considered one of the greatest writers of the 18th century--and who retired from writing as soon as he was named Poet Laureate of England and started receiving a government pension. Jim--you say that you write for the joy in creation. I have no problem with that...but I hope you have a day job. You say that you'd like to be published some day--is that for an ego-trip, or to share what you feel is a worthwhile contribution to the world's literature, or because you'd like to make a few extra bucks? My guess is that it's a combination of all three--otherwise you'd just write in your own private journals and perhaps occassionally show some of your literary musings to friends. If it's either of the first two, though, why not publish your stuff yourself and charge your buyers only what it cost to produce? I doubt you'd find a publisher who didn't care about profit, but that's their problem, not yours... Part of what I'm trying to say is that their should be no sanctity placed on artistic expression that says it should be free from the money-grubbery that pervades society. At the same time, I'd like to point out that people like Stephen King no longer *need* to write for the money. They write because they feel that need to get whatever it is going through their head out on paper. In a semi autobiographic passage in _The Cat Who Walks Through Walls_, Heinlein wrote: "But I did not explain to you the other insidious aspect of writing. There is no way to stop. Writers go writing long after it becomes financially unnecessary....because it hurts less to write than it does not to write." "I don't understand." "I didn't either, when I took that first fatal step--a short story, it was, and I honestly thought I could quit anytime." If you read _Grumbles From the Grave_, a posthumous "autobiography" of Heinlein edited by his widow, you'd see that Heinlein always treated writing as a career. In some ways, it's disturbing to see how he manipulated current events/styles/trends to make money. At the same time, though, you never lose the impression that he did it for the reason he described above-- he had to. There are many types of jobs Heinlein could have held...but he "chose" to write for a living. Oh well. Enough of that for now. Jeff |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true | | | Time for you to / Be who you are." | |jeffy@lewhoosh.umd.edu | --Happy Rhodes | ======================================================================== To join ecto, please send electronic mail to the following address: ecto-request@athos.rutgers.edu To have your thoughts included in the next issue, send mail to: ecto@athos.rutgers.edu To subscribe to "Ecto", the printed fanzine, send $8 to: Ecto PO Box 11291 New Brunswick, NJ 08906 Ecto is issued 8 times/year, and will include photos and as much material from non-net members as we can get! Donations above the subscription cost are welcomed - all money goes to bringing you better issues! Your "humble pseudo-moderator" -- jessica (jessica@athos.rutgers.edu)