Errors-To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #568 ecto, Number 568 Tuesday, 11 May 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* replies, replays, ripley's, raptly, euripides...et. al Stuff, filtered through fatigue Stalking Psychowelders replies, replays, ripley's, raptly, euripides... roadies, Rhodes More warpaints than... No Laurie, and Things of Stone and Wood ... there are two types of people, me and everyone else ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 17:05:03 EDT From: Chris Sampson Subject: replies, replays, ripley's, raptly, euripides...et. al Hello, all, Chris No-more-than-one-period-at-the-start-of-a-line Sampson here, The 8 Feb 1993 Time magazine defines flaming in an article on cyberpunk as and "overstating" of one's views. I believe this is the telling aspect of the flames I've seen. The other half, of course, involves the response to those overstatements...misunderstanding plays a big role, I think. Vickie, I'm taking your responses as being enthusiastic, without intending to be provocative, and will answer each in turn. A log from #566: Vickie responds to my less-than-glowing opinion about SV's Solitude Standing: V>That's my favorite SV album, though if I'd gotten into her with the first V>album, that one might be my favorite. As it is, 1 comes 3rd, after 99.9. I've the first album and Solitude Standing. My SO would (if on the net) attest to my tendency to overplay new LPs/CDs upon purchase. I really liked the first album. SS (rest assured that this opinion is arrived at after several listens) on the other hand, IMNSHO, lacks the thematic cohesion of the first, and is also, song-for-song not as deep, pretty, or poetic. The first album is rich in imagery. Whereas, again IMNSHO, Tom's Diner is merely precious. C> and my comment (really just an observation) about Luka, i.e., that it C>was overplayed to death, by listing the following justifications.... V> And...? a) it's a great song I disagree. Granted, the subject matter is important, but the song (from an artistic/aesthetic sensibility (mine, so it's no big deal) falls short of most of those from the first album. V> b) it got her a lot of new fans, some well-deserved recognition V> and some money, honey No doubt; but, the fans are those whose tastes run no higher than run-of the-mill pop and the recognition is for, again IMNSHO, inferior work. Cf. Pacino's award for Scent-of-a-Woman. Overdue praise seems to fall at awkward times..... V> c) better Luka than most of the other junk that gets overkilled Perhaps, but not MUCH better (Again, we're arguing the song as a whole, not just the subject matter) V> d) your radio has an off switch and Please don't lecture me on freedom of choice. V> e) I could be wrong, but it sounds as if you're judging V> the album SS by Luka's overkill. Where have I heard that V> before? Oh yeah, people judging Peter Gabriel's _So_ by the V> overkill of "Sledgehammer" and people judging Kate then, and V> even now, by the overkill of "Wuthering Heights." You are. I'm judging the album by the album. People who arrive at hard and fast judgements on such small samples are shallow and worthy of no further mention here. Better even to acknowledge a gut reaction to overkill and qualify it with the disclaimer of "but I really don't know" than to proclaim an entire person or work "bad" by a song chosen for over-zealous airplay by a cheaply biased radio station..... C> (text leading up to my cousin's insistence that the Queen....) C> was absolutely free to leave with the soldier C> (assumption that the song is NOT allegorical...or maybe no such C> assumption)...Bars do not a prison make, I guess. There are two types of C> people...... V>People who have opinions about The Queen & The Soldier and those who don't? V>People who are in prison and those who aren't? V>People who are Queens and those who aren't? V>People who are bitchy, nasty Queens and those who aren't? V>People who are soldiers and those who aren't? V>People who are idealistic, kind and gentle soldiers and those who aren't? V>People who would give up palaces and power for soldiers and those who V>wouldn't? V>People who get an audience with a Queen and those who don't? V>People who've heard that album and those who haven't? V>People who've seen SV in concert and those who haven't? <:-( sniff> V>People who say that there are two types of people and those who haven't? I have to admit to not understanding the source of most of these responses, unless they are meant to be playful (which I'm finding it increasingly difficult to assume :( ). But, I was, of course leaving the completion of the saying to the reader as an exercise; with the intention that it should be completed with the final entry on the list. Not terribly clever, I know, but hey....It was late in the afternoon...wasn't it? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Alan (not aware that he was to become entangled in a rhubarb (sp?): A> >Re: bisexuality - A> A> > I must admit I do have a strong preference for A> > all things female, C> A hearty assent (not a macho catchphrase) I adore women. V> Then you have a lot in common with lesbians and bisexual women :-) Probably only half as much with the bisexual women, as with the lesbians, though. Actually, I'm sure there are aspects of womanhood about which each of those groups knows more than I do. I'm merely stating a preference/wonderment [not that women exist for my wonderment....] Funny thing...Janet Reno got applause with her assertion that she "adores" men....... Talk turned to movies, particularly endings (pat-, happy- and others): C> Me, I prefer, the not-so-pat resolution, vis-a-vis At C> Play in the Fields of the Lord (most recent example). V>Have you seen _Brazil_? It's my all-time favorite film. I've seen the entire trilogy* and loved each more than the previous one. This is, indeed, another good example of a good ending, i.e., not so neat and tidy, not happy (well, not really), not incredible (any more than the rest of the film). One should not get a hernia suspending disbelief. *Terry Gilliam asserts that _Time Bandits_, _Brazil_ and _Baron Munchausen_ comprise a trilogy thematically linked as "stories of romantics in a cynical age" (or words to that effect). [John Allen Paulos .sig omitted. You've all seen it. It takes up quite a bit of room.] V> I agree that we don't use enough of the facts we already have, but then V> again, you can never have too many facts. I'm glad he said "in many V> situations" but still. Any hint that "we should supress/ignore/not gather V> any more facts" is dangerous at worst, wrong-headed at best. Who *is* this V> guy? (I know you did talk about him...something about Omni...but I deleted V> it too fast. I'll go back and read it again.) This guy, the subject of a badly written article in OMNI, seems to be similar to Bertrand Russell (an admitted fan of his, as a matter of fact)in that he is not JUST a mathematician, but, rather, something of a renaissance man, er, person. If I may presume to defend his stance against misinterpretation... I believe what he means to say is that some researchers (whether independent, government sponsored, or in industry) seem to adopt a megalomaniacal manner when it comes to investigation (I work for one). More facts, more facts, more facts...[read "smoke and mirrors"] Yeah, yeah, yeah, but what are you LOOKING FOR? [Or are you just spinning your wheels???????] If you collect every possible datum about your subjects, something unexpected is sure to shake out as being statistically significant...but is it important, and was there an a priori justification for the question in the first place? It can be argued that the ends justifies the means (much the way one may argue that SV "was due" recognition by the time she recorded Luka), but there is a certain rigor upheld by having at least a somewhat narrowed arena in which to search for answers. Many a great scientific mind has addressed the double-edged sword of focus vs. keeping an opened mind...It's easy to veer off radically toward one or the other extreme and lose sight of the goal...i.e., better UNDERSTANDING of what the @_*&$*^% is going on] As far as it being impossible to have too many facts, I can only say that the shot-gun approach is sloppy at best; wasteful at worst. Every dollar wasted on hang-nail research is as-good-as stolen from AIDS research. As a taxpayer (I pay part of my own salary.....:) ) I am slightly perturbed that my tax $.001 goes to research into the most effective way to slice an english muffin. If I were a closed-minded senator from South Carolina, I'd be similarly upset that my tax $.001 funds Mapplethorpe and Serrano via the NEA...[Naturally, I am more perturbed that ca. $1000 of my taxes goes to the defense department's research into how to best waste money while not actually blowing anybody up...] Basically, there is a trade-off between efficiency and thoroughness- bordering-on-OCD. Did you know that IQ in grade-school children is very closely correlated with shoe-size? If research is funded, (i.e., if you're not intending to publish in the Journal of Irreproducible Results) priorities must be set, in order to prevent the perpetuation of a situation similar to the one in which the US Gov't STILL has a department in charge of stock-piling Helium...for use by the military in defense of this country...by DIRIGIBLES! [*I* have a junk drawer, but I don't ask for other people to pay mainenance fees on it!] Anyway, it's not black-and-white. Given a choice between 10 projects to be funded with $X, I believe most would dole out the money in proportion to what the zeitgeist holds to be the most IMPORTANT research. Lest we judge Dr. Paulos solely on the basis of one song...I mean, quote...I can forward to you, too, Vickie a transcription of the OMNI article, as I will to Mike Mendelsohn and any others wanting it... V> So, what about the Tongue On Battery survey? Nothing is ever completed on time, or within budget. -Cheops See you all happily(?) ======================================================================== There are two types of people: - people who divide people into two types, - people who don't, and - Zen masters. Joe Zitt ======================================================================== ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 14:55:57 CDT From: Subject: Stuff, filtered through fatigue Subsequent to somebody bringing it up last week, I found myself going home ear- ly one day without posting anything, because I somehow found myself too tired to do anything else. It then occurred to me that perhaps the poster was right, and maybe I am posting less these days. On the other hand, think of the sheer amount of time that this has freed up in each one of your lives, to do every- thing else under the sun :-). Quote without comment WRT Brni's loss, and the Bosnian war more generally: "Peace, love, brutality." --Penelope Houston Turning back to less lugubrious matters: One thing Angelos didn't mention in his paean to the new _Pulse_ is their latest swipe at college radio. They write of the First Amendment suit brought by DJ's let go by the U of Washington station in connection with its recent format tinkering, and imply that the DJ's are imputing sinister motives to the station's replacement of them with _World Cafe_, which they say is less adventuresome than the local shows they used to do. Go figure. Quoth Vickie, WRT my parting shot last week: >> >> Mitch Pravatiner >> Big Kahuna of Pencil-Neck Geeks* > >:-) I read it wrong the first time. I thought it said "Kaluha" Kaluha is always worth misreading stuff, say I :-). For some unknown reason, her discourse on scientology reminds me of the evening in the summer of 1979, when on a visit to Boston under the usual pretext of the American Sociological Association annual meeting, I was strolling down (I think) Boylston Street when I was buttonholed by a Scientologist who offered me a free personality assessment, presumably based on the results of their inimit- able can-squeezing methodology. Naturally I declined. Be that as it may, they sure have been successful for a movement that, the story goes, arrived on earth for the sake of a tax dodge. (Supposedly, L. Ron repackaged his Dianetics as a religion in order to win it a 501(c)(3) exemption.) Who's THG? Uli debugs Brni's translation of my attempt to bring a new German aphorism into the world, and points out: > to become = werden > to get = bekommen > >So the not-Max-Weber citation translates as "when one asks a dumb question, >then one gets a dumb answer.". Or as Tom Lehrer put it even more simply in his live recording of "New Math," "Ask a silly question, you get a silly answer." But now that that little bit of ambiguity has been cleared up, it is now my great pleasure to confuse every- body _de novo_ by throwing out the following, possibly rhetorical question: what's the logical error in the statement "Ich wurde im Jahre Neunzehnhundert Zweiundfu"nfzig geboren?" Anyone know if the Bill Wisner who moderates Love-Hounds is the same Bill Wis- ner who runs The Well? If so, has any effort been made to turn him on to Happy? It might be a profitable thing to do if The Well has any music talk channels. Yesterday, I finally got around to playing the Penelope Houston album I bought a week earlier. Everything Vickie said earlier in praise of her is true. Wonder how many hours after I send it this post will finally emerge from RUTVM1. One can be vulnerable to thinking about such things when one's batter- ies go dead in the middle of _Fresh Air_, making it problematic whether one can catch any of _All Things Considered_ :-). Mitch ---------------------------------------- "If this music is too challenging we'll try to come up with something lighter in the next half hour." --Aaron Brown, anchor of _World News Now_, after they played "98.6" by Keith under the sports scores last night (that tune and SV's "99.9 Fahrenheit Degrees" would nonetheless make an imagin- ative segue, methinks) "So grubadick." --Maryse Holder ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 May 93 22:09:30 MET From: brage@sphere.home.id.dth.dk (Jens P. Brage) Subject: Stalking Psychowelders Hi! Joe writes about "Stalker": > Huh? I saw the movie when it first hit the states, and found it > unbearably depressing, which the person I saw it with didn't. Did I miss > something? If so, what? I think you missed something, but before describing it, I'd better put up *SPOILER WARNINGs*: If you do not want to know about the ending of "Stalker", skip the next page... It *is* pretty depressing, the ending is rather nihilistic. Or rather, it would be if it wasn't for the very last scene: This shows the Stalker's young (and handicapped, I think) daughter sitting unmoving before a table, looking at a glass which slides slowly to the edge and hits the floor. Then the end titles starts. But wait a second! The table surface is horizontal and the girl didn't move. *What* caused that glass to move??? My interpretation is that this serves to indicate that the gods/aliens of the Zone actually exists (in some sense), and have given gifts to the Stalkers (in this case as parapsychological powers in the daughter), even though the Stalker is unaware of this. And so the absence of anything special in the Zone is just a defense against the intruders... I've only seen the movie once, and that's quite a few years ago. I'd like to see it again, especially with the knowledge of the ending. I can't really remember that much of the discussions in the countryside... Yngve: > The Groups Psychowelders and The Catherines don't have any CDs out, so > wht am I supposed to do to get hold on their stuff? (Sounded very > interesting) At least the Psychowelders have a CD, "Inertia", which is quite good. You can order it from Rhondda Francis, the singer in the band: Psychowelders c/o Rhondda Francis 3815 Walnut #1 South Kansas City, MO 64111 USA Warning: Her address *may* have changed, perhaps Vickie knows. Also, you'll need a bit of patience with your order... ;-) There was talk about a new CD, I don't know it that has been released as yet. Again, Vickie is the ultimate source! Also, I can recommend buying a Psychowelders t-shirt, it's a great conversation piece! :-) I've only worn mine once (the weather hasn't been suitable for t-shirts until now), but I've already been asked by one person just what "Psychowelders" are... ;-) PS: Congratulations to Stephen and Jane! Keep floating! :-) Jens P. Brage | No time gives us reasons for why it just goes by brage@sphere.home.id.dth.dk | And no man can stop the seasons /\ | But so many men will try \SphereSoft | - Jefferson Airplane, "Common Market Madrigal" ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 May 93 18:16:05 CDT From: lusky@sol.hc.ti.com (Steve Lusky) Subject: replies, replays, ripley's, raptly, euripides... roadies, Rhodes [John Allen Paulos .sig omitted. You've all seen it. It takes up quite a bit of room.] What Chris says of this fellow tends to confirm my inference from the .sig quote. It is similar to the outstanding article "Risk within Reason" published in Science 4May90. Both remind us that what we judge must be relative to other similar things. Pile a lot of data on top of data and you can easily get stuck in a "local minimum" while climbing over the "hills" to find something reasonable. I.e., you may be blinded by all the data and not see that what appears reasonable may not be. Say you have a baby sleeping at home, and need to dash to the store. Would you leave the baby alone for 10 minutes, or take the baby? Most would take the baby. However, the risk of you having a car accident is much higher than anything adverse happening if you leave the baby home. The use of statistics is often criticized. My concern is that people do not use them enough when making decisions. "Often too much weight is placed on risks of low probability but high salience." If we took this to heart, our society would be a far nicer place to live. Yes, Chris, please send me the article. Yesterday's paper noted Billy Joel's comments in a college commencement address. He was talking about music commercialization, and strongly encouraged going out on your own. He said alternative music expands the art. Many if not most are not satisfied with popular music. Wonder if he's heard Happy? Speaking of roadies, yesterday I was to lead a 92 mile Gread Ride Around Beltline, a circle of roads around Dallas, a bicycling event. It was raining at the start and the forecast was for severe storms. 7 guys insisted on going. I did the "sensible" thing and chose not to ride, but for some reason I felt obliged to assist those who did. So I went home, geared up the minivan to haul the riders for When The Rain Came Down. Listened to a lot of Happy along the way, and got one interested in her. The storm caught them near the end, so I did bail them out. The rain was intense. A few minutes and miles later the same storm cell dropped a tornado that bounced a little and smacked Wylie, a little town where several bike buddies live. I trust they're ok... Nothing like Bosnia, where man does far worse than nature. (My sympathies to Brni.) Ciao, Steve P.S., Yes, Vickie, I have seen Mr. Bean (with Rowan Atkinson, shown here on HBO). The skit where he is cleaning a stage and comes upon an invisible drum set is wonderful stuff. ======================================================================== Subject: More warpaints than... Date: Mon, 10 May 93 21:06:49 EDT From: Angelos Kyrlidis I have seen at one place, ever before (even more than Greg used to have at some point last year :)). WOW! Indeed, next to George Harrison and under the Grateful Dead a whole Tower Best Sellers bin full of Warpaints. A sight for my sore eyes (after 2 straght days in front of an X terminal). Even though Tower Boston still stocks Happy between Happy the man and Happy Mondays, I congratulate them for their excellent choice of CDs to display prominently. (Alas, the CD singles of TR I had seen last week were long gone :(). Angelos (who just *had* to see it with his own eyes :)) ------- 'My brains fall out, they're loosely wrapped'- Happy Rhodes ======================================================================== From: boek@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au (Christopher Boek) Subject: No Laurie, and Things of Stone and Wood ... Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 11:28:47 +1000 (EST) > > > > Graham asks Re Laurie Anderson: > > > > > > What I want to know is... Does she ever get down to Australia? > > > > > Why is it that this seems ever to be the question .... ? :( > > I wish Suzanne Vega was coming down as well, but I doubt that too. > > > > Ah well *sigh* at least PG's coming down this time, even though I > > probably won't get to see him. > > > > Chris. > > > well, the system here is totally ***ked, so i can't edit this properly. > but its too late to stop now. > (did i ever complain about how stoopid computers are?) > > anyway, for all of you down in australia, think about how much *more* > music comes your way than ever makes it to alaska. 2 years ago when i > was there, everybody, and i mean *EVERYBODY* had a styx t-shirt because > they were the first big rock band to make it to fairbanks. every third > song on the radio was a styx song, too, which was rather repulsive, but > they were into it... > > brni > Oh really. Sorry, you're right :} I'll never look that particular gift horse in the mouth again ... I guess in place of the Laurie Andersons we get to see the 'Things of Stone and Wood's of the world for free at the local pub. Well we used to anyway. TOSAW are now supporting Midnight Oil (at least in Australia) which will cost considerably more than nothing to see :). They are really good, if you ever get to hear of them. When the HBP (is that the right one ?) comes around, I'll stick 'Happy Birthday Helen' on it. Quite appropriate in some ways. Chris. -- | ||| ||| | ||| ||| ||| | ||Christopher Boek - boek@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au | ||| ||| | ||| ||| ||| | || Dept Elec Eng Univ of Melbourne Australia | | | | | | | | | / "Anybody remotely interesting is mad in |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| \_/\_/\_/\_/\__/(:*- some way or another" ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 May 93 21:32:34 EDT From: mojzes@monet.rutgers.edu (brni) Subject: there are two types of people, me and everyone else hi chris, > >Hello, all, Chris No-more-than-one-period-at-the-start-of-a-line Sampson here, > >The 8 Feb 1993 Time magazine defines flaming in an article on cyberpunk as and >"overstating" of one's views. I believe this is the telling aspect of the flames >I've seen. The other half, of course, involves the response to those >overstatements...misunderstanding plays a big role, I think. > >Vickie, I'm taking your responses as being enthusiastic, without intending to >be provocative, and will answer each in turn. > hmmm. i didn't read vickie's post as being "flamage" at all. >first album. SS (rest assured that this opinion is arrived at after several >listens) on the other hand, IMNSHO, lacks the thematic cohesion of the first, >and is also, song-for-song not as deep, pretty, or poetic. The first album is >rich in imagery. Whereas, again IMNSHO, Tom's Diner is merely precious. > sorry to disagree. the first album was wonderful, but the second (i feel) is *more* thematically cohesive than the first (unless you wanna count "these are my early songs" as a theme ;> ). i really couldn't tell you which of the albums i like best, tho. _solitude standing_ is the only album with "wooden horse", tho... >C> and my comment (really just an observation) about Luka, i.e., that it >C>was overplayed to death, by listing the following justifications.... > >V> And...? a) it's a great song > > I disagree. Granted, the subject matter is important, but the song >(from an artistic/aesthetic sensibility (mine, so it's no big deal) falls short >of most of those from the first album. > and again, i (respectfully) disagree. well, actually, i think that it *is* one of her weaker songs on those albums, but is still a great song. >V> b) it got her a lot of new fans, some well-deserved recognition >V> and some money, honey > > No doubt; but, the fans are those whose tastes run no higher than run-of >the-mill pop and the recognition is for, again IMNSHO, inferior work. Cf. >Pacino's award for Scent-of-a-Woman. Overdue praise seems to fall at awkward >times..... > now THIS is flame material....!!!! :) *i* am one of those new fans. "luka" was the first suzanne vega i heard, and i liked it a lot. then i heard "tom's diner" (which i think is brilliant, btw, and i still break out in a rash whenever i hear the mutilated version), and i HAD to go out and buy the album. if *my* tastes are "run-of-the-mill pop", i have to ask you "what is left for the avant gard?" > >V> d) your radio has an off switch and > > Please don't lecture me on freedom of choice. > yup. we'll leave that for Devo... >V> e) I could be wrong, but it sounds as if you're judging >V> the album SS by Luka's overkill. Where have I heard that >V> before? Oh yeah, people judging Peter Gabriel's _So_ by the >V> overkill of "Sledgehammer" and people judging Kate then, and >V> even now, by the overkill of "Wuthering Heights." > > You are. I'm judging the album by the album. People who arrive at >hard and fast judgements on such small samples are shallow and worthy of no >further mention here. Better even to acknowledge a gut reaction to overkill and >qualify it with the disclaimer of "but I really don't know" than to proclaim an >entire person or work "bad" by a song chosen for over-zealous airplay by a >cheaply biased radio station..... > um, this is dangerous, but might i (again, most respectfully) warn against making hard and fast judgements on people's characters based on the way they approach music? > >C> (text leading up to my cousin's insistence that the Queen....) > >C> was absolutely free to leave with the soldier >C> (assumption that the song is NOT allegorical...or maybe no such >C> assumption)...Bars do not a prison make, I guess. There are two types of >C> people...... > >V>People who have opinions about The Queen & The Soldier and those who don't? >V>People who are in prison and those who aren't? >V>People who are Queens and those who aren't? >V>People who are bitchy, nasty Queens and those who aren't? >V>People who are soldiers and those who aren't? >V>People who are idealistic, kind and gentle soldiers and those who aren't? >V>People who would give up palaces and power for soldiers and those who >V>wouldn't? >V>People who get an audience with a Queen and those who don't? >V>People who've heard that album and those who haven't? >V>People who've seen SV in concert and those who haven't? <:-( sniff> >V>People who say that there are two types of people and those who haven't? > > I have to admit to not understanding the source of most of these >responses, unless they are meant to be playful (which I'm finding it >increasingly difficult to assume :( ). But, I was, of course leaving the >completion of the saying to the reader as an exercise; with the intention that >it should be completed with the final entry on the list. Not terribly clever, I >know, but hey....It was late in the afternoon...wasn't it? personally, i thought that this was hysterical. :) please don't find it too difficult to assume that it was playful. > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > >Alan (not aware that he was to become entangled in a rhubarb (sp?): > >A> >Re: bisexuality - >A> >A> > I must admit I do have a strong preference for >A> > all things female, > >C> A hearty assent (not a macho catchphrase) I adore women. > >V> Then you have a lot in common with lesbians and bisexual women :-) > > Probably only half as much with the bisexual women, as with the >lesbians, though. Actually, I'm sure there are aspects of womanhood about which the bisexual woman that i am involved with adores women as much as many of her lesbian friends, or my lesbian friends, or me, and more than many straight men and lesbian women that i know. or lets try it this way: i adore kate bush and peter gabriel. therefore i adore kate only half as much as someone who adores only kate and not pete. or not... :^> >Talk turned to movies, particularly endings (pat-, happy- and others): > the best happy ending i've ever seen was "silence of the lamb"! >======================================================================== >There are two types of people: > > - people who divide people into two types, > - people who don't, and > - Zen masters. > Joe Zitt >======================================================================== - and ectophiles :) brni mojzes@monet.vill.edu ****************************************************************************** Oh, I'd love that. | And on his dying bed I am sleepless nights | I'd be a mineral deposit, | the dirty angels I am actors in dreams | a ball of mica | flying over him like I am concience. | inside a rock. | buzzards asked him Karen Finley | Then there'd be no whistles | Do you confess? no radios, | Do you confess? no screams. | Diamanda Galas ****************************************************************************** WE DON'T WANNA GROW YOUR STINKING BANANAS ANYMORE! ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)