Errors-To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #500 ecto, Number 500 Monday, 22 March 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Random excess memories :-) and other stories apologies to non-digest people for those bounces! Happy Stuff Truth Seeking MST3K pretension... Re: So sue me...... Phil 'n Genesis Today's your birthday friend.... Hair Length Warpaint sighted Truth Seeking (fwd) Just another rave ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 13:19:00 CST From: Subject: Random excess memories :-) and other stories It was good to revisit the collective saga of last year's concerts, as well as the saga of the early years of SiG. WRT the former, I stand by my evident und- erstatement of a year ago, and am still glad everybody liked them :-). If Happy ever plays the QE2 again, there may be something to be said for paying it the homage of putting "Rawhide" into the repertory (cf. Aykroyd and Belushi in _The Blues Brothers_ :-) ). Having established a tradition a year ago of doing concerts in university audit oriums, might I suggest that Happy consider Mandel Hall--the University of Chic ago's auditorium and the site of the annual Folk Festival there--as a Chicago concert site. It's not too small, yet not too large (DK the exact seating capa city); Happy would undoubtedly enjoy the gargoyles (i.e., sculptured stone mons ters) scattered about the facades of the older campus architecture; and best of all, it's located on my end of the city :-). >Happy didn't mean anything mean by these comments. Her sense of humor is >bone dry and razor sharp, which makes her comments sometimes very hard to >interpret. Even Vickie admits to being confused at times. But at least, nobody confuses me with Happy on the basis of difficulty of interpretation :-). I probably should be thankful for small favors. My latest ideas for segues: 1) "He Will Come," followed by Dolly Parton, "Here You Come Again." 2) Boy George, "The Crying Game," followed by Suzanne Vega, "As Girls Go." I find the recent discussion of hair length somewhat interesting. It would app ear to help cement my reputation as something of a maverick on this list that I tend to go about five months between haircuts, but at the end of these period s I would appear still to have a fairly close haircut by the standards of those declaring themselves on the issue heretofore (the last clause is, of course, very reminiscent of the flaws that many survey research specialists have poin- ted out in Perot's questionnaire in _TV Guide_, but anyway... :-) ). >boy (Mike + empty credit card + urge to buy something = dangerous). I beg to differ. In my experience, it's been the overloaded, even maxed-out cards that equal dangerous. Unless the point is that a single urge to buy something tends to turn his empty cards into overloaded ones :-). I know that feeling too. Last Friday's _Sun-Times_ carried an announcement which may have some tangentia l relevance to something we've discussed in these pages: >HEY, VERN. Genesis Creative Oases art supply stores celebrate the vernal >equinox with a morning metaphysical workshop at 10 a.m. and then a party at >10 p.m. with Andean music, neo-pagan rituals and a lecture on the mythological >significance of the dawn of spring. After some warming over the weekend, there's now snow on the ground again. So it would seem that once again, nature took vern out :-). Is OLAL really a subliminal reference to the old saying about the month of March? Think about it :-). Lastly, my personal Melanie quiz: Which of her songs was written (as best I recall), and perhaps recorded originally, by John Greenway, and covered by Pete Seeger before she got hold of it? Mitch ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 16:16:30 EST From: jessica Subject: apologies to non-digest people for those bounces! Eeek! The mailer on martin's end apparently didn't handle the bounce correctly - it sent back messages eith very strange headers. Bounces are supposed to go to the "Errors-to:" address (which is set to owner-ecto), but instead it sent them to me with such a strange header that my mailer interpreted the messages as being from _me_ and to the list. very odd :) I removed the messages from the digest - my apologies to those on the regular mailing list who got them! (there were 3). jessica ======================================================================== Date: 22 Mar 1993 16:42:12 -0500 (EST) From: "she listens like her head's on fire.." Subject: Happy Stuff Hello, I picked up Warpaint on Friday (the last copy they had on cd I might add:-) and I must say it was quite a good day. I found out that two people in a class of mine like Kate Bush, Big Country, Clannad, etc....I was more than happy to point out where they could find the Japanese Box set in Buffalo. They asked me what I was doing later and I told them: buying a cd. What cd? they ask. Happy Rhodes! Warpaint! Needless to say they had not heard of her but were interested so I gave them a brief summary based on what I have found out through this mailing list. They took down her name (actually wrote it down!) and said they would have to check her out. :-) I said I would let her borrow some of the stuff I had since it hasn't been easy to find. Nice way to start out the day... I got the last copy of Warpaint but was only able to listen to a few songs on Friday. Saturday night I listened to the whole thing while working in my room. I had to stop what I was doing and listen, at Words Weren't made for Cowards I took the cd booklet and started reading the words. I got goosebumps during Warpaint. wow. This isn't exactly a review...more of a first impression. I can't remember who said it but I must agree that Warpaint grabs immediately. I have grown to like Equipoise immensely (even Save our Souls:-) but through repeated listenings. It also may be that Warpaint was more accessible because I am more familiar with her music now. At any rate I am very pleased to be aquainted with her now. :-) Quenby ======================================================================== From: Tree of Schnopia Subject: Truth Seeking Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 16:47:27 EST Forwarded message: > From ACSSQMC@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu Mon Mar 22 12:33:47 1993 > Date: 22 Mar 1993 12:17:00 -0500 (EST) > From: ACSSQMC@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu > Subject: Maniacs and stuff > To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu > Message-Id: <01GW3X214MOY90OM0R@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu> > Organization: University at Buffalo > X-Vms-To: IN%"ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu" > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > > second time this was sent with some editing changes. temperamental machines! > > stuff from Drewcifer... > > >I'm just a naturally argumentative person. I have well-thought-out reasons > >for most of my opinions and I find that discussing them in a heated context > >helps refine my ideas, or discredit them if they're totally fallacious. > >It's all part of truth-seeking. > > okay, I wasn't going to get involved with this but what exactly do you mean > by "truth-seeking?" We were discussing music and our personal opinions of > it...opinions which differ. Who is to say what is the "truth"? I like > Our Time in Eden. I gave my reasons for liking it but you found it abysmal > trash. I said I thought The Wishing Chair was wonderful. You said it was > bland and uninspiring (or words to that effect. I don't have the message > in front of me). Does this mean I am wrong? From your letters on this mailing- > list discussing the work of 10K maniacs it would appear so. Since when has > music been a matter of right and wrong? It's personal expression...not only > for the artists themselves, but for the people who listen to the music and > find meaning in it. No, no, no, you silly person. :) I meant that in truth-seeking I am trying to more firmly define for MYSELF whether I am right or wrong. I like to beat my ideas into shape like a piece of metal; subjecting them to others' criticisms refines them and gives them a better, firmer shape. I believe that one of the best ways to learn is to listen to differing opinions, and one of the best ways to hear differing opinions is to trumpet yours arrogantly, thus drawing lots of annoyed responses. One cannot shape cold metal as easily as heated metal; thus the flaming. You might argue that opinions cannot and should not be shaped in the same fashion as ideas. I disagree. I was hoping to hear some new angle on OTIE that perhaps I had missed; I do want to enjoy it, but cannot. Your opinion is just as valid as mine. > > Another thing. Why should I attempt to discredit your ideas if you > feel so strongly about them? Do you want someone to convince you that > you are wrong? Somehow, that seems to be a rather patronizing and offensive > position for anyone to take. I can't see how. In fact, quite the opposite; I think it's the mark of the open-minded individual who is logically-minded enough to need proof or convincing argument to believe in a proposition. > > I've enjoyed the discussions on this list thus far. I've enjoyed > experiencing other points of view. This mailing list is being read by > many people and providing an alternatative opinion on an issue is not > necessarily a declaration of war. True, but I appreciate the recreational and intellectual value of a good, not-always-fluffy argument. I apologize if you were offended or affronted; my intention was neither to disparage your opinions nor to cause you emotional stress. I forget that not everyone enjoys debate as much as I. > I'm not sure if I have expressed myself fully here. I will just have to > take the chance that I have not been misunderstood. I don't think so. Correct me if you have. Drewcifer ======================================================================== From: Tree of Schnopia Subject: MST3K Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 16:50:03 EST Forwarded message: > From MICHAELB@ksgrsch.harvard.edu Mon Mar 22 12:21:28 1993 > Message-Id: > To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu > From: "Michael Blackmore" > Date: 22 Mar 93 12:02:54 EST > Subject: MST3K > X-Pmrqc: 1 > Priority: normal > X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5). > > Vickie sez: > > > this post so we can watch MST3K, so I think I'll go. I've been > > You wouldn't by chance be a MSTies too! :-) I love MST3K, watch it > faithfully and have about 40 episodes on tape! > > *************************MICHAEL BLACKMORE************************** > > "I want the power of life and death!" > - Crow T. Robot on what he wants for Christmas > > Michael B (michaelb@ksgrsch.harvard.edu) > ***************A TRADITIONAL OF EXCELLENCE SINCE 1963*************** > I LOVE MST3K! Some episodes are real snoozers, but I adored "Hercules and the Captive Women," as well as "Bride of the Monster." One question: what's up with the promo where Crow says "Bite me, it's fun!" Where the HELL did that come from? :) Drewcifer ======================================================================== From: Tree of Schnopia Subject: pretension... Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 17:07:36 EST Forwarded message: > From @vill.edu:mojzes@monet Mon Mar 22 13:33:11 1993 > Resent-From: @vill.edu:mojzes@monet > Resent-Message-Id: <9303221812.AA26364@ns1.rutgers.edu> > Resent-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 01:20 EST > Date: Fri, 19 Mar 93 01:19:19 EST > From: mojzes@monet.ucis (tyrone slothrop) > Message-Id: <9303190619.AA15905@monet.vill.edu > > To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu > Subject: pretension... > > hi ho. > > just thought i'd add a bit here... > > (from websters collegiate dictionary) > > pretension: 1) an allegation; a pretext. 2) A claim, esp, a claim asserted > or tacit, true or false (to something admirable); hence, any quality or fthat invites or aims to invite admiration or attention; as, this pretension > to taste. > > pretentious: having or exhibiting pretensions or claims to admiration; > specif.:a) ostentatious; showy. b) ambitious in scope, subject, etc. > > kate bush is pretentious (or at least, her music is). > nick drake was not pretentious. This argument started with connotation and touched on denotation, going back to connotation. Connotatively, Kate is not pretentious at all. Would you like to bear that in mind and try again? > some succeed, some don't. > pretention is not bad except when it is entirely out-of-phase > with the abilities of the person (a perfect example of the result of > this is U2's _the joshua tree_). Oy veh. > > i don't think that the indigo girls are attempting things past their > abilities. i think, in fact, that they are doing what they want to > do rather well. i just tend not to be interested in what they are doing. > ah well. I don't know what they want to do and don't care. I just know that I don't particularly find the results very appealing, and they SOUND like the result of pretention. Go figure. > > 10K maniacs? well, i don't want to discuss them, because i'd probably > hurt someone's feelings. Not mine. Either we'd disagree (as we do over Kate, apparently), and I'd dismiss your opinion (unless you said something noteworthy), or we'd agree and I'd be pleased as punch. > > i think that i am babbling... No matter...it's all I ever do. :) > its late.. > goodnite > > ty > Drewcifer ======================================================================== From: jmg@rocket.com (Jim Gurley) Subject: Re: So sue me...... Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 13:01:55 PST >Nina Hagen's first album, 1978... Well, opps. you are probably right Michael. I only wanted to point out the difference in time frames for Lene and Diamanda; don't know why I stuck in NH. Mia Culpa. As for "pathed" well, if you think of it in metaphorical terms, just imagine it as a path...who better than an english major to deconsruct the language... ======================================================================== Subject: Phil 'n Genesis Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 18:06:50 -0500 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu For some completely unknown reason, Tracy wrote: >Not true, my friend... Collins first played on Foxtrot. Mayhew was gone >after Trespass. Please check with me for further info! Collins played >drums on that live album. I would suggest that one should *not* check with Tracy for further info, as his is completely wrong. Phil Collins joined Genesis in...um...'69 or '70. It seems to me that he joined *after* _Trespass_ was recorded, but before it was actually released, though I could be wrong on that. Either way, his first album with the band was their third effort, _Nursery Cryme_. He also makes his vocal debut on that album, singing "For Absent Friends." _Foxtrot_ was Genesis' *4th* album, released in '71. Phil has been on every Genesis album but two (_From Genesis to Revelation_ and _Trespass). Phil has played drums on all 4 live albums released by Genesis (I'm counting the new releases as one album, though they were released seperately (how utterly obnoxious!)). Yes, this includes 1973's "Live", which came between _Foxtrot_ and _Selling England By the Pound_. ObHappy: _Foxtrot_ contains Genesis' longest song, their epic "Supper's Ready." It is from this song that Happy drew the word "flutterby" which she then used in "Terra Incognito." I imagine Vickie would be happy to jump in with some Genesis info if necessary. I'm still jealous of her for seeing the Lamb tour. Jeff (who owns *far* too many CDs, LPs, and cassettes by Genesis and all the various band members) ======================================================================== Subject: Today's your birthday friend.... From: klaus@inphobos.w.open.de (Cosmic Vagabond) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 06:35:01 GMT i*i*i*i*i*i *************** ***HAPPY******* ********BIRTHDAY*** ******************* ****** Bob Brown ****** *********************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bob Brown Thu March 22 1951 Ham John Baker Tue March 24 1964 Berkeley Valerie Nozick Thu March 25 1971 Aries Marc Power Sun March 30 1958 The Project Warpaint Mon April 1 1991 Brilliant! Klaus Kluge Sun April 10 1960 Unicorn Steve VanDevender Sun April 10 1966 Racer Art Liestman Fri April 10 1953 Repeat Stephen Golden Sat April 10 1971 Jokey Harry Foster Sat April 21 1956 NiceGuy Angelos Kyrlidis Fri April 22 1966 Taurus -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _____ Klaus Kluge * klaus@inphobos.w.open.de * I'll be here, I'll be (in) Ecto! ======================================================================== Date: 22 Mar 1993 18:24:52 -0500 (EST) From: Sam Warren Subject: Hair Length >On Sat, 20 Mar 93 at 17:58:21 EST, WretchAwry wrote: >> Any other guys with long hair on the list? Count me in on this too. I have a blond pony-tail hanging halfway down my back. I work as an Executive Administrative Assistant, and no-one has asked me to cut my hair yet. And by the way, I've been meaning to ask for some time now, Steve (S.L.Fagg@ bnr.co.uk +44-279-402437): what does your .sig mean? >*** "Better drowned than duffers. If not duffers, won't drown". *** Just curious, -Sam ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 16:51:40 -0800 (PST) From: Neile Graham Subject: Warpaint sighted in the new Cds We Bee catalog from Spokane WA. :) Address: CDs We Bee South 3420 Whipple Street Spokane, WA 99206-6308 509/922-7378 voice/fax And they do take credit cards for those occasions when you've introduced a friend to _Warpaint_ and they can't *wait* to know it's on its way to them. Just a satisfied customer. --Neile ======================================================================== From: boek@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au (Christopher Boek) Subject: Truth Seeking (fwd) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1993 12:34:57 +1000 (EST) Drewcifer writes ... > > No, no, no, you silly person. :) I meant that in truth-seeking I am trying > to more firmly define for MYSELF whether I am right or wrong. I like to > beat my ideas into shape like a piece of metal; subjecting them to others' > criticisms refines them and gives them a better, firmer shape. I believe > that one of the best ways to learn is to listen to differing opinions, and > one of the best ways to hear differing opinions is to trumpet yours > arrogantly, thus drawing lots of annoyed responses. One cannot shape cold > metal as easily as heated metal; thus the flaming. > I'm sorry, but I disagree that the best way to discuss something is heatedly. I find that flaming is something to avoid at all costs, and one of the reasons I like this list so much is that it has, in my experience, had _no_ flaming at all (until now, although I would hesitate to call the discussion so far 'flaming', but I can see it rapidly becoming so). Flaming alienates people, it destroys a pleasant atmosphere, and unnecessarily generates animosities between people. I would certainly not like to see flaming becoming a permanent feature of this list. I have survived quite nicely without it, and seemed to have suffered no narrow-mindedness because of it. (I have only been on this list for a few months though, so I don't want to appear as though I represent it - This is all IMHO of course). I dislike it when somebody 'trumpets their opinion arrogantly' (note - I dislike the situation, not the person trumpeting), because in some ways only a similarly arrogant person is willing to reply to it. I for one tend to avoid replying to your opinions because I _really_ dislike being a subject in a flame war. Thus you have in effect closed off somebody's opinion from being aired. After all an opinion is often very personal, and many people don't have logically justified, well thought out reasons for them, as you say you do. I know I don't. Most of the time anyway *:). For instance, I'm actually making this up as I go along, but I wanted to say that I don't like flaming, because I think it is important to say. Note that I am _not_ saying I don't like discussion - I'm not usually part of it because I don't have these logically defined reasons for my feelings but that's OK - I just don't like flaming. I suppose this post is in some ways hypocritical. I'm sorry if it is, but I really needed to say this. I hope nobody minds *:} Chris. -- | ||| ||| | ||| ||| ||| | ||Christopher Boek - boek@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au | ||| ||| | ||| ||| ||| | || Dept Elec Eng Univ of Melbourne Australia | | | | | | | | | / "Anybody remotely interesting is mad in |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| \_/\_/\_/\_/\__/(:*- some way or another" ======================================================================== From: Ethan Douglas Straffin Subject: Just another rave Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 19:25:40 PST Well, it finally happened...just as I was actually beginning to enjoy the wait in a perverse sort of way (after all, the anticipation is half the fun), my local Tower finally got _Equipoise_ in stock. And...what can I say? I'm floored. This is her best album yet. Far from it needing time to "grow on me" like some Ectophiles have experienced, this one grabbed me by the neck and has been shaking me around by it for about 24 hours now. Which is not to say that it doesn't just keep getting better. Favorites so far are "Runners," "He Will Come," "Out Like A Lamb," "Temporary and Eternal," and (of course!) "I Say." "Cohabitants" is clearly the dark horse of the bunch, but I think I'm gonna love it. Between this and all the new stuff which I have to rush out and buy tomorrow (Depeche Mode, American Music Club, Pursuit of Happiness, Black 47), either my CD player will burn out or my dormmates will smash it... :-) Ethan ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)