Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #1135 ecto, Number 1135 Friday, 10 June 1994 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Self-defense Self-defense (non-null) Re: Alison Moyet in Concert, Toni Childs, Eurhytmics Live Unsubscribe temporarily... Though Revoking Kristen Hersh Vacation *sigh* Comedienne on Tonight Show on 6/8/94? Ectotravels: Sweden and England Re: Odd Pairings Odd pairings of a different sort Odd Pairings, Erata, and more? Re: Self-defense (non-null) (and Sheila Chandra) Re: Sheila Chandra MMO IN NYC!!! (none) Re: Sheila Chandra Loreena McKennitt Interview Re: Self-defense (non-null) Re: gun stories Ectotravels: Sweden and England Re: Self-defense (non-null) (and Sheila Chandra) The gun thread... 2nd Tori Concert added in Chicago Unsubscribe Guns and second call for Seattlephiles Re: ObHappy! Re: Alison Moyet concert ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 09:17:49 PDT From: snpf@lucid.com (Sarah Noelle Pratt Ferguson) Subject: Self-defense ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 09:18:28 PDT From: snpf@lucid.com (Sarah Noelle Pratt Ferguson) Subject: Self-defense (non-null) One of our ectoids wrote (hope they don't mind this copy being posted): > Well, personally, not much. But I don't put teaching people > to defend themselves from the world at the top of my list of > great changes. It seems kind of defeatist. Learning how to > protect yourself against the problems in the world, rather > than trying to change the attitudes that create that environment. > To me, self-defense is a change of attitude. Especially for womyn, who have an amazingly difficult time as adults even pretending to hit a man (or perhaps someone else). I'm trying to make things more equal, and I really believe that womyn fighting back will cause a change in view; we won't be seen as easy targets any longer. This is learning to protect yourself against specific problems which come up and bonk you on the head or try to rape you. Again, this does change the attitudes that create the environments of violence: easy prey will no longer be the case. More equality (making up for disgusting teaching which occurs throughout our lives) will make us more equal. One of the reasons I really liked the article was that it changed a wrong-view I had about trying to defend yourself with a weapon. I'd always been told it would be taken away from me, and so I would be better off without one. Circumstances vary, of course, but this kind of thinking is stupid and blind. To not even TRY. Also, if I look at reality, if I want to hold onto something, people have a very difficult time getting whatever it is away from me. Because I am strong, I am determined. My life is more important than their desire to hurt me (in the worst case). Motivation is everything. I was riding my bicycle early in the morning, 4am or 2am, and I saw a woman jogging. I thought of her safety. I thought of attacking her. I saw her has a target. That upset me. I had bad dreams about a world where it just gets worse and worse and womyn become cloistered. Like an evil situation as described in 'Handmaid's Tale'. Actually, to my experience, that book wasn't much removed from reality, which is scary. I attribute this to growing up in an extremely chauvanist and regressive society (Mormonism). The only way I can see a solution to the problem, of sexism and seeing womyn as victims, is to teach womyn to defend themselves. Many societal teachings are disgusting and wrong. It doesn't matter which gender. But it is true that womyn have been taught NOT to fight, even when they are being attacked. I love _Even Cowgirls Get the Blues_ because of the portrayal of womyn being who they are. And men, for that matter (the muse is a male). *grin* -seanympf ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 09:18:26 PDT From: hanson@ast.saic.com (Jeffrey Hanson) Subject: Re: Alison Moyet in Concert, Toni Childs, Eurhytmics Live Alison Moyet in concert! I'm so jealous! Anyone have tour information? Anyone in L.A. know if she'll be playing there? I doubt she'll make it down to San Diego, but if she's playing Southern California at all, I want to be there. While I'm at it, somebody mentioned the new Toni Childs album a while back and was wondering why no one had mentioned it. I had just bought it at the time and not had a chance to give it a good listen so I didn't respond until now. I love it. For me I think its the most powerful album of the year (so far). I like it better than her first aqlbum Union. It reminds me for some reason of Jane Sibberry's When I Was a Boy (my favorite album of last year). It's full of strange noises, layered vocals, and interesting arrangements. Less African-rhythm influenced than Union. Now I have to check her 2nd album out (House of HOpe?) which I somehow managed to overlook when it came out. For whoever asked about the Eurythmics Live CD--I would recommend it. (Though I still haven't purchased it myself--I've yet to see it at a price I would consider cheap). I've seen Eurythmics twice and they are a fabulous live band. Also, they tend to really rearrange some of their songs--performing songs like WHo's that Girl acoustically. If you're a fan, I'm sure it would be worth it--I will buy it one of these days. Enjoyed my trip up to Seattle last week. Unfortunately didn't get to meet any of the NW ectophiles--my friend kept me pretty busy. Maybe I'll get up there again sometime--I loved it. Well, bye for now. Jeff (who seems to have no relevant thoughts on gun control) Hanson ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 Jun 1994 12:38:46 -0400 (EDT) From: MMCQUAD1@ithaca.edu Subject: Unsubscribe temporarily... I'm going to be out of town for 3 weeks...long enough to know I'll never catch up on these digests! Please unsubscribe me for the next 3 weeks...thanks! Michelle ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 10:01:56 PDT From: Neal Copperman Subject: Though Revoking On a slightly different note (and apologies to the anti-humor contingent, but this could be quite important for everybody!) - Neal >From the WEEKLY WORLD NEWS, May 24, 1994 MOSCOW -- Doctors are blaming a rare electrical imbalance in the brain for the bizarre death of a chess player whose head literally exploded in the middle of a championship game! No one else was hurt in the fatal explosion but four players and three officials at the Moscow Candidate Masters' Chess Championships were sprayed with blood and brain matter when Nikolai Titov's head suddenly blew apart. Experts say he suffered from a condition called Hyper-Cerebral Electrosis or HCE. "He was deep in concentration with his eyes focused on the board," says Titov's opponent, Vladimir Dobrynin. "All of a sudden his hands flew to his temples and he screamed in pain. Everyone looked up from their games, startled by the noise. Then, as if someone had put a bomb in his cranium, his head popped like a firecracker." Incredibly, Titiov's is not the first case in which a person's head has spontaneously exploded. Five people are known to have died of HCE in the last 25 years. The most recent death occurred just three years ago in 1991, when European psychic Barbara Nicole's skull burst. Miss Nicole's story was reported by newspapers worldwide, including WWN. "HCE is an extremely rare physical imbalance," said Dr. Anatoly Martinenko, famed neurologist and expert on the human brain who did the autopsy on the brilliant chess expert. "It is a condition in which the circuits of the brain become overloaded by the body's own electricity. The explosions happen during periods of intense mental activity when lots of current is surging through the brain. Victims are highly intelligent people with great powers of concentration. Both Miss Nicole and Mr. Titov were intense people who tended to keep those cerebral circuits overloaded. In a way it could be said they were literally too smart for their own good." Although Dr. Martinenko says there are probably many undiagnosed cases, he hastens to add that very few people will die from HCE. "Most people who have it will never know. At this point, medical science still doesn't know much about HCE. And since fatalities are so rare it will probably be years before research money becomes available." In the meantime, the doctor urges people to take it easy and not think too hard for long periods of time. "Take frequent relaxation breaks when you're doing things that take lots of mental focus," he recommends. (As a public service, WWN added a sidebar titled HOW TO TELL IF YOUR HEAD'S ABOUT TO BLOW UP:) Although HCE is very rare, it can kill. Dr. Martinenko says knowing you have the condition can greatly improve your odds of surviving it. A "yes" answer to any three of the following seven questions could mean that you have HCE: 1. Does your head sometimes ache when you think too hard? (Head pain can indicate overloaded brain circuits.) 2. Do you ever hear a faint ringing or humming sound in your ears? (It could be the sound of electricity in the skull cavity.) 3. Do you sometimes find yourself unable to get a thought out of your head? (This is a possible sign of too much electrical activity in the cerebral cortex.) 4. Do you spend more than five hours a day reading, balancing your checkbook, or other thoughtful activity? (A common symptom of HCE is a tendency to over-use the brain.) 5. When you get angry or frustrated do you feel pressure in your temples? (Friends of people who died of HCE say the victims often complained of head pressure in times of strong emotion.) 6. Do you ever overeat on ice cream, doughnuts and other sweets? (A craving for sugar is typical of people with too much electrical pressure in the cranium.) 7. Do you tend to analyze yourself too much? (HCE sufferers are often introspective, "over-thinking" their lives.) ----- End Included Message ----- ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 Jun 1994 13:08:34 -0500 (EST) From: GIBSOND@aa.wl.com Subject: Kristen Hersh Hi For all ectophiles in the Detroit area : Kristen Hersh tickets are on sale NOW at the Gem Theater (313) 963-9800, will go on sale through ticketmaster tomorrow. The show is July 7 at 7:30 p.m. I've got mine, luckily I called the box-office and they were on sale, boy was I surprised. :-) Don ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 10:01:12 PDT From: John Relph Subject: Vacation Hi, I am going to be on vacation for a couple of weeks, so I am going to have to say a temporary good bye. But if you find new information for the Suzanne Vega, Lemonheads, They Might Be Giants, or Matthew Sweet discographies, please send it to me directly (relph@presto.ig.com). Thank you, -- John ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 Jun 1994 11:19:08 -0600 (MDT) From: schlepping away to paradise Subject: *sigh* I wasn't really sure if I wanted to post this, but I decided I might as well throw my gun story in with everybody else's . . . Last month, while a friend and I were studying for Fluid Dynamics and Organic Chemistry finals (which were scary enough by themselves :-) ), I heard shots out- side and looked down just in time to see someone pull out a gun and shoot another (who was already on the ground) three times, point blank. I've seen tons of movies where people were shot and otherwise mutilated, but seeing it in real life was terrifying. Perhaps the worst part of the experience was that I have been somewhat sheltered from violent crimes most of my life (I grew up in a Wyoming town of 3,000 people . . . my high school graduating class was about 45 students). Even now that I live in Laramie (pop. 23,000-ish), I never gave much thought to the pos- sibility that something like this could happen outside my window. In retrospect, this isn't really an ectopic . . . I suppose I just had to vent. peace, love, and now I go a-sleepy time (she _was_ great on Conan last night, wasn't she?), Janet ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 10:50:32 -0700 From: hinshaw@cs.washington.edu (Kevin Hinshaw) Subject: Comedienne on Tonight Show on 6/8/94? In my rush to to see Tori on Conan O'Brien last night, I managed to make it home early enough to see the last half of the Tonight Show. Did any of you catch the name of the comedienne who appeared? She did a *great* stand-up routine but unfortunately didn't get ANY time to talk. And Leno didn't bother to re-announce her name at the end of the show, either. Lame. And, as usual, Tori didn't get any time to talk after performing on Late Night. No, instead we got to see Kid 'n Play vs. Ben and Jerry in "The Newlywed Type Game". Ah well, at least we got to hear Tori play Cornflake Girl! -Kevin ======================================================================== Subject: Ectotravels: Sweden and England Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 18:29:29 GMT From: tim@falcon.is (Tim Breitkreutz) Greetings all. I am hoping to contact any Ectophiles in STOCKHOLM, LONDON, or any going to the GLASTONBURY FESTIVAL. I will be in Stockholm from 17June to 21June, and in London on the 23rd, and then at the Glastonbury festival until the 26th. If any other ectophiles (that I haven't already talked to) are going to be anywhere near these locales, and would like to meet up please send me email at the address below. Also, I will probably be going to see Bruce Cockburn (Canadian singer/songwriter) in London on the 23rd, if anybody would like to join me for that it would be great too! Thanks! As far as the gun thing goes, I am generally against guns, especially handguns. My sentiments are fairly accurately portrayed in the XTC song "Melt the Guns", from one of my favourite albums, "English Settlement".... -- Tim Breitkreutz `I try to walk on this wall, it fell tim@falcon.is right under my feet--now I only lean Tel: +354 1 19407 only lean on the wall' -- KH ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 15:02:02 PDT From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: Odd Pairings I haven't really given this much thought, but comedians as opening acts made me recall the fact that my parents won tickets to see (the then) Roseanne Barr open for Julio Iglesias. To my parents credit, they did walk out on Julio's show :) Neal ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 17:05:51 CDT From: Subject: Odd pairings of a different sort If one wanted to do this mental exercise with movies, some that come to mind are: _The Bicycle Thief_ and _Pee-Wee's Big Adventure_ _Dance With A Stranger_ (or _Let Him Have It_) and _Good Day For A Hanging_ _Jurassic Park_ and _Forever Amber_ _Tom Thumb_ and _Even Cowgirls Get The Blues_ Mitch ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 19:57:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Sampson Subject: Odd Pairings, Erata, and more? First the corrections: Kip Adotta (may or may not be correct spelling) is a man. Whoever posted the bit about him, however, is correct in describing him as being not particularly funny, and is, now....finally...working Las Vegas-type venues. I went with my parents to see Kenny Rogers (*puke*). Gallagher (of the sledge-o-matic fame). Some comedian (now, the politically correct word is the unisexual, comic, I think) opened for him. I don't remember the guy's name, but he sang a song, the chorus of which, I can't seem to forget (try as I may....hmmm, maybe I have HCE). For your boredom, it is appended here: There were men who loved women who loved men. There were women who loved women, every now and then. And there were men who loved men, who couldn't pretend, That they were men who loved women who loved men. I don't have any particularly interesting gun stories (let alone traumatic one...had my SO or *any*one *ever* pointed a gun at me (loaded or not) I'd distance myself in all manners from that person. My father used to own .22 cal. pistols (used only on the range (firing, that is, not THE range)). My brother the dittohead (tm), (with whom I share very little aside from a genetic history) gets all excited by them, and is, in fact an INS officer (he's ALWAYS been into playing cops and robbers (his own admission)). I'm certainly not certain as to what should be done about their distribution etc. Licensing requirements similar to, but more strict than, those required to get a driving license seems like a good *start*. Frequent, mandatory, aptitude testing in lieu of confiscation, even. Again, only a start, not at all a solution. Finally, as odd pairings go, my cousin, Gregg and I started compiling, one besotted eve, a Compendium of Famous People and Their Antonyms (tm) (r). I'd have to find the disk, but the one pairing that springs reliably to mind is: Pee Wee Herman Sir Alec Guinnes I agree with.....well, whoever said it...... If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. Chris. ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Self-defense (non-null) (and Sheila Chandra) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 17:58:47 PDT From: Eli Brandt > From: snpf@lucid.com (Sarah Noelle Pratt Ferguson) > One of the reasons I really liked the article was that it changed a > wrong-view I had about trying to defend yourself with a weapon. > I'd always been told it would be taken away from me, and so I would > be better off without one. This is a common, interesting myth. When many people believe an urban legend of this sort, there's usually a reason for them to *want* to believe it. Here, I think it's all too obvious: "women are too weak to handle a gun, a man will take it away" -- the notion of female powerlessness is back. To be fair, sexism is not the only incentive to belief; someone might dislike or fear guns (I don't like guns or own one, but I try to keep that a separate issue). I was shaken by some of the experiences people recounted with guns. The carelessness in pointing a gun at a person, or leaving a loaded gun, safety off, where a child could get it... please, please, nobody do these things. > The only way I can see a solution to the problem, of sexism and > seeing womyn as victims, is to teach womyn to defend themselves. A good thing: women are very unlikely to commit a crime with a gun. I hope there is some instruction in gun safety as well as self- defense... anyway, more power to you. On a more musical note (sorry!), I recently picked up Sheila Chandra's _Weaving My Ancestors' Voices_, because someone mentioned it on ecto. :-) And I got lucky. It's something of a mixed bag: some traditional folk lyrics from all over, some new; also some wonderful vocal percussion (tabla /bol/?). But it's unified in arrangement: all tracks are voice and drone, or voice only. She's clearly a skilled singer, which makes this work. I think she has a new album out, which I'll surely snatch up when I see it. Eli ebrandt@hmc.edu ======================================================================== From: Philip Sainty Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 13:51:00 +1200 Subject: Re: Sheila Chandra From: Eli Brandt Eli Brandt'd > On a more musical note (sorry!), I recently picked up Sheila > Chandra's _Weaving My Ancestors' Voices_, because someone mentioned > it on ecto. :-) And I got lucky. It's something of a mixed bag: > some traditional folk lyrics from all over, some new; also some > wonderful vocal percussion (tabla /bol/?). But it's unified in > arrangement: all tracks are voice and drone, or voice only. She's > clearly a skilled singer, which makes this work. I think she has > a new album out, which I'll surely snatch up when I see it. I've been meaning to ask about her new album for several days, and then I keep meaning to look for past references to it in my ecto archives, and I still haven't done it, so could some kind soul(s) please tell me something about it... :) (I saw a copy recently I think - it has a sort of blurred/unfocused picture on the cover?) this reminds me... what is the current situation regarding the ecto music-guide, Neile? I'm sure you haven't had much (if any) time at all lately to do anything with it, but I'm unsure about whether it can be used at the moment and it is simply being added to, or if it isn't available at all... and if it can be used in any way, I haven't a clue how to do so... Philip _ _ ___ _ _ _ (_ / | / \ |_) |_| | | (_ Philip Sainty (_ \_ | \_/ | | | | |_ (_ psainty@comp.vuw.ac.nz -------------------------------------------------------------- "This is where I want to be, this is what I need." --Kate Bush ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 22:06:54 EDT From: WretchAwry Subject: MMO IN NYC!!! ======================================================================== On June 10-11, singer-songwriter Mary Margaret O'Hara makes a couple of special appearances (her first in New York in several years), blending her enchanting folk-pop lyricism with the kindred sensibilities of Susan McKeown and The Chanting House and Miracle Legion's Mark Mulcahy. Dining. At the Fez, 380 Lafayette Street, New York City, (212) 533-7000 Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 23:10:07 -0400 (EDT) From: S Trowbridge Subject: Re: Sheila Chandra On Fri, 10 Jun 1994, Philip Sainty wrote: > I've been meaning to ask about her new album for several days, and > then I keep meaning to look for past references to it in my ecto > archives, and I still haven't done it, so could some kind soul(s) > please tell me something about it... :) (I saw a copy recently > I think - it has a sort of blurred/unfocused picture on the cover?) I've been meaning to *write* about Sheila's new album, "The Zen Kiss," for several days, and just haven't had the time. I'm surprised no one has mentioned it up 'til now -- it's glorious! If you liked "Weaving My Ancestors' Voices," you'll love "The Zen Kiss." More to come -- promise! :-) --Sue, who has a big conference coming up on Saturday and only barely has time to check her email... //////////////////////////trow@access.digex.net\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Alas for those who do not sing but die with all their music in them. --Oliver Wendell Holmes ////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 Jun 1994 22:09:11 -0400 (EDT) From: WAYNEPALMER@delphi.com Subject: Loreena McKennitt Interview Just sitting here listening to the rebroadcast of the interview that Loreena McKennitt gave to WXPN's "The World Cafe" a few months back. It's a interview that she gave before she released The Mask & Mirror and kicked off her US tour in Phila.(great concert, had 2nd row seats!) The whole interview lasts about 35 minutes. She does live in studio performances of All Souls Night, The Bonny Swans, Between the Shadows, and the shortened version of Lady of Shalott. She describes exactly how she went from selling her tapes on the streets of Montreal to her signing with Warner. I recorded the whole interview this time around so if anyone is interested in a copy email me and I can make one for the cost of the tape and shipping. Sorry, I don't have any interesting stories to add about experiences with guns, but glad to see that a wide variety of subjects can be discussed here without everyone screaming topic drift and "this doesn't belong here". I guess ectophiles usually share in common the fact that they have a life outside there musical interests. In my opinion this is what separates the fan from the fanatic. I try as much as possible to distance myself from the latter, be they the "every female artist is ripping off Kate Bush" folks to the "what starfleet rank are you" Trek folks. Understand that I love both Kate and science fiction, but it doesn't effect my entire life. Sorry, if I rant but it's just so refreshing to find a group like this. *=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=* | Wayne A. Palmer *Ye Olde Florence Train Station* waynepalmer.delphi.com | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WXPN-Music That Needs to be Heard <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< | *=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=* ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 00:11:03 -0500 From: "Dennis G Parslow" Subject: Re: Self-defense (non-null) Even for men, self defense is important. The reason there are so many victims in the world is that there are so many people ill-prepared to defend themselves (and this is not just from physical attack). This becomes a self-propitiating series, since the offenders are shown they can get away with it. And if they can get away with it against men, "weaker" women are merely even easier targets (c.f. car salesmen). The only answer is from any possible direction, make attacks of any sort unprofitable in the long run. Individual events can be stopped completely, but they can be curbed to a great extent. There is, of course, one other major source of danger-desparation. This is the harder cause to root out. Dennis Parslow You know what I like about hockey? Troy, NY 12180 I'm on breakaway with the greatest player p00421@psilink.com of all time. You know what I hate? Darryl Strawberry is not a dog. He's not passing to me. A dog is loyal and chases after balls Denis Leary Tom Lasorda ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 00:02:43 -0500 From: "Dennis G Parslow" Subject: Re: gun stories I was brought up around guns, and took a whole different tack, I guess. I spent quite a bit of time shooting targets, with Rifle, Pistol, and Shotguns. I got to be quite good with the rifle and pistol, and erratic but occaisonally excellent with the shotgun. My father hunts deer quite a bit (where it is important to keep the deer population down, by the way-after a couple slow hunting seasons, there were records for deer starvations-even an uglier death that shooting, esp. if for a clean kill). However, when I went for the first time myself, at dawn of opening day of the first hunting season I was old enough to hunt, I saw a string of bucks head down the trail I was watching. Even aware of the necessity of hunting in that area, I still could not pull the trigger. I have no problem with guns or target shooting, or other people hunting where there is a need, and forthe meat and not just for sport or for the fur. I just choose not to pull the trigger myself (for which many would call me a coward). Furthermore, I do not keep my guns (I own a rifle and a shotgun) particularly handy, where I could shoot at any nightmare or cat in the dark, but if put in a position where I would have to shoot someone, I probably could, although I would certainly think about it for the rest of my life. Did I mention that I am on a grand jury? My term is almost up, but it has been interesting to see the cases-mostly drugs, a couple assaults, a series of forgeries, and one ugly dismissed manslaughter (I don't know whether to feel sorrier for the victim or the defendant). We have heard some of the stories after the cases have been finished, and have been quite surprised! Dennis Parslow You know what I like about hockey? Troy, NY 12180 I'm on breakaway with the greatest player p00421@psilink.com of all time. You know what I hate? Darryl Strawberry is not a dog. He's not passing to me. A dog is loyal and chases after balls Denis Leary Tom Lasorda ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 02:34 PDT From: buck@satyr.sylvan.com (Michael Butler) Subject: Ectotravels: Sweden and England > As far as the gun thing goes, I am generally against > guns, especially handguns. My sentiments are fairly > accurately portrayed in the XTC song "Melt the Guns", > from one of my favourite albums, "English Settlement".... For me, I'd be perfectly in favor if melting _all_ guns were possible. But it's not. So I'm not. And one of the things owning a gun has let me find out is that I'm *not* going to turn rogue and misbehave. I could throw my firearm in San Francisco Bay tomorrow and still carry that lesson with me. Guns are not for everybody. I am for reasonable gun control. Letting no one but cops and government officials own guns is _not_ reasonable. Melt their guns too, or melt nobody's. Peace and mindfulness, Michael ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 02:48 PDT From: buck@satyr.sylvan.com (Michael Butler) Subject: Re: Self-defense (non-null) (and Sheila Chandra) Eli Brandt writes: > > From: snpf@lucid.com (Sarah Noelle Pratt Ferguson) > > One of the reasons I really liked the article was that it changed a > > wrong-view I had about trying to defend yourself with a weapon. > > I'd always been told it would be taken away from me, and so I would > > be better off without one. Men get told this too. It _can_ happen. Semper paratus and all that. > A good thing: women are very unlikely to commit a crime with a gun. Truth: _Civilized people of either sex_ are very unlikely to misuse a gun. They are, however, taught to fear themselves. Other Truth: Some parts of some American cities have a high proportion of uncivilized behavior. Crowd mammals enough, and they berserk. You can't legislate civilization. **** ObHappy: I'm seeing pictures now for some of Happy's songs. Anyone think she'd mind getting a videocollage synced to them? Michael B ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 09:01:35 -0500 (EST) From: "I'll be here, I'll be ecto..." Subject: The gun thread... Just thought I'd add my $.02 about the gun issue. I spent a large portion of my youth in a not very good neighborhood in San Diego. Until the end of junior high, you usually only had to worry about some of the gang members beating you up for any number of real (but usually imagined) slights. Somewhere around my sophmore year in high school (1982), things started changing and you started to have to really worry about who you dealt with. After being in a crossfire between two rival gangs, having cars filled with gang members slowly driving around the street with guns in plain view, and knowing people were shot, I decided guns definitely weren't for me, and the sooner we could get rid of them the better. I feel even more strongly about it now, after living near DC for almost 2 years (not that DC is a bad place, but some of the stories are just too heartbreaking...). John ======================================================================== From: kmorrey@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kathleen Morrey) Subject: 2nd Tori Concert added in Chicago Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 08:53:49 -0500 (CDT) ...Immediately following the 7pm concert on Saturday, July 9th, there is a 2nd concert at 10:30 pm. Tickets go on sale Monday 10am at Ticketmaster outlets. Although this is going to make it even more difficult to unload my one or two extra tickets that I have to the earlier show, I will selflessly disseminate this information ;) But again, if anyone wants to go to bed early and wants 1 or two tickets to the the 7pm show, give me a buzz. Are there any Toriphiles in Chicago who aren't on ecto? If so, maybe someone posting on rdt could mention that I have tickets (I meant net-toriphiles, I don't think just us ectofolk sold out the 1st show ;) On the gun thread, I initially had a general fear of guns. I do think that it would be nice if people were of the sort that weapons did not have any use, but I think a banning of any sort of weapon will just result in the increase of use of another. The problem really lies in educating people to respect the lives of others, and has to start with respecting themselves. (This is the bare bones of my tenet, so it probably sounds naive, but it sounds better filled out :) I think I'm going to expound on this when I have time, if the thread holds up. But, I have to go to work. Geez, tickets still available for Alison Moyet at the Vic on Tuesday. Gotta run. Kath ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 14:53 BST From: dbl@cee.hw.ac.uk (David Lindsay) Subject: Unsubscribe Boo-hoo! I'm sorry that this has come to pass, but new jobs and all that mean that I lose my e-mail account next week. I had a curry last night with Ilka, which was lovely, and she has promised to keep me up to date with all gatherings/fests etc., but for now I have to say that I have enjoyed my time with ecto, although my contributions were never what you would call prolific. Anyway, it was terrific to meet the ones I met in Cambridge and Darmstadt (Vickie, woj, meredith, geoff, Klaus, Claudia, Uli, oh, you all know who was there), and I hope to see you all again soon. Except Tim Cook, whom I hope never to see again. (Oh, come on, cheer up ya Shasshenach git!). I have to go now, so please, Jessica, will you unsubscribe me, sob! *HUGS* to everyone, sob! bubble-bye, sob! Davedoes sob, sob, sob ======================================================================== From: brianb@netcom.com (Brian Bloom) Subject: Guns and second call for Seattlephiles Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 07:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Since guns seem to be the theme of the week, thought I'd add another data point to the masses. Some of you know that I used to live in Bogota, Colombia. I was there from 1980-1982. During that time we had: (in more or less chronological order..) o Our house broken into and had 2 guns stolen (and thousands of dollars of jewelry and electronics) o An armed guard assigned to our house by the embassy, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. o Our van broken into and another handgun stolen. (these guns are issued by the embassy for the self protection of Americans while overseas) o Some hoodlum try to come into our yard over the roof. (Most houses in Bogota share walls, which in turn connect to the house) I held him 'at bay' with a staplegun (literally) until the guard could get through into the back yard and scare him off. o Someone shot and *killed* just under my bedroom window one morning. Our guard and some of the neighbors' guards (A Colombian general's home) had been playing 'quickdraw'. One of the guns went off. Bullet easily could have come through my bedroom window, where I was laying in bed. So maybe you can surmise that I don't like guns. well, not entirely true. I mean, I have a .22 rifle that I used to use for target shooting. But I don't hunt and won't eat venison or other game from hunting. I am opposed to handguns, but feel that a rifle is justifiable for home defense. (I see it as less risky that a handgun, harder to shoot oneself with a rifle than a gun you can point at your head, also much harder to conceal) Only cops should have handguns. At the barest *minimum*, I feel that guns should be treated like automobiles. They should have annual inspections, and get licensed by the state. All unregistered guns should be confiscated upon discovery and fines should be leveed. Users should have to attend 'Defensive Shooting' classes, and take a test to receive a license, just like for a car, subject to annual renewal as well. Okay, soapbox mode off. Well, it looks like Neil has solved the Vancouver lodging problems, but I still need to find some places to stay in Seattle. Any Ectohostel offers? Any bright ideas for other cheap lodging? I'm reluctant to make any plane reservations until I have secured a place to sleep at nights. Thanks for any help you can offer!! br!an -- __ ____ __ ____ __ __ (__==__) /\ \ / \_\ / /\ / \ \ / |\ / /\ (oo) ( moo.) / \_\ / /\ |_| / / /| /\ \ \ / ||/ / / /-------\/ -' / /\ | |\ \/ /_/_ / / / \ \/ \ \ / |/ / / / | U.T.|| / \/ |_| \ __ \_\ /_/ / \ /\ \_\ / /| / / * ||----|| / /\ ./_/ \ \ \/_/_\_\/ \ \ \/_// / | / / ^^ ^^ \ \/ |_| \ \_\ /_/\ \ \_\ /_/ /|_/ / Br!an Bloom \__/_/ \/_/ \_\/ \/_/ \_\/ \_\/ brianb@netcom.com .. but music hides me so well, ..and reveals me.. oh well - HR ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 08:02:33 PDT From: snpf@lucid.com (Sarah Noelle Pratt Ferguson) Subject: Re: ObHappy! This is kindof in reply to Michael Butler. I really don't think it can hurt to do a videocollage. I think that it is a really good idea, in fact. Re: Other Truth: We are uncivilized, in general. The exception is the civilized. (or perhaps pounded into a mould?) -seanympf ======================================================================== From: Mklprc@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 11:54:28 EDT Subject: Re: Alison Moyet concert > Ne Me Quitte Pas (dedicated to a friend who had died of AIDS) This song is on an obscure Marianne Faithfull album I have. Didn't know anyone else ever recorded it (outside of France). mp ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)