Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #1134 ecto, Number 1134 Thursday, 9 June 1994 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Yeah, it's a passion Re: passion Re: Thought Provoking unsubscribe Re: Uncertain Re: passion Depthcharge 2.5.4 Re: Thought Provoking Re: Odd Pairings Re: Thought Provoking Alison Moyet in Concert! Re: Thought Provoking update on stevev Tori on Conan Re: Thought Provoking CDC europe Re: Tori on Conan Unsubscribe ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 17:29:15 PDT From: snpf@lucid.com (Sarah Noelle Pratt Ferguson) Subject: Yeah, it's a passion Seeing as Happy Rhodes is awesome.... Thank you all who refrained from flame-type remarks. These random posts are for edification and thought, not pain. Ok. Remember "Wrong Century" from 'Warpaint'? Well, listen to it again. :) A while ago, I mentioned graduating from a self-defense class (with the gumby suit humans). It was BAMM. BAMM (Bay Area Model Mugging) now has a page on the Web. BAMM is a member of Impact International Inc., a worldwide women's self-defense organization. So, what are you doing to change the world? *grin* -seanympf ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 17:40:31 PDT From: John Relph Subject: Re: passion Hmm, what am I doing to change the world? I'm going to outlaw the Iditarod because a few dogs might die! Yeah, right. But in any case, remember what they say: if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Read _Earth_ by David Brin, _Shadow Hunter_ by Will Baker. I give money to various "green" orgs. I believe that death is part of life. Read _Wyvern_ by A.A. Attanasio. Always wear a helmet, tread lightly. Think in dislocated random non- patterns and write that way, too. Hmmm, what am I doing to change the world? Preaching to the coverted! Yeah! -- John P.S. That Humane Society thang this morning got me all out of whack. ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 20:48:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Re: Thought Provoking On Wed, 8 Jun 1994, David Koehler wrote: > Thought provoking yes, but I would prefer you keep the political hot > potato of gun ownership/control out of Ecto. Well, she did say she wasn't sure if she should post it, but obviously some people wanted to see it.. > Just as many people wouldn't want to see this group used as a platform > for right-to-life vs. pro-choice diatribes, I don't think this > blatantly pro-NRA literature is appropriate here. That's only a problem if you've got immature flamers, which Ecto seems to be pretty much devoid of. I thought it was pretty funny timing, as I spent the weekend in Ocean City with a guy who just bought a gun and was trying to sell how wonderful it was. (My solution, as a preview, was to get a 12-fire rubberband gun. thwick thwick twick) > - David Koehler While it'll certainly be a problem if it becomes a flamefest, I doubt it'll become one. This list talks about just about anything, so far always in a mature way. There's always some way to tie it to music, too (I mean, Happy's songs are frequently somewhat dark in nature, right?). My take on it it's in an imperfect solution to an imperfect world. While it may deter someone at first from attacking you, it could also make them pull out *their* gun in response, and I doubt they'd give a second thought to pulling the trigger if they thought you were going to. No evidence to back this claim, just a gut feeling. The author of the posted article was right -- the only way to solve violent crime is to address the causes. But she wasn't willing to wait for that to happen, and I don't blame her. I don't *agree* but I understand that part. I feel that you're just prolonging the violence by owning a gun; it's a choice, essentially. But anyway. I wanna go play HomerDoom some more. There's a secret room/switch I'm missing on E2M3 yet. (Nice tie, eh? Doom and gun control) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Matthews, Mike_Matthews@sgate.com (NeXTmail accepted) ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 20:21 PDT From: marcelf@wimsey.bc.ca (Marcel Feldmar) Subject: unsubscribe UNSUBSCRIBE Ecto marcelf@wimsey.com *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* marcelf@wimsey.com creative consultation textual manipulation drummer poet coffee addict ================================================================= "only cappuccino for you, baby" - Dwight Gardiner ================================================================= ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 21:01:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rod L. Bourland" Subject: Re: Uncertain Isn't ecto more than just a place to discuss music. I think we have some very interesting non-music discussions on the IRC in #ECTO, and its very consciousness-raising. We're waking up....I knew we would. Music, especially Happy's, IMHO, inspires many emotions and thoughts and stories and I love having them shared. So thats my opinion on your posting about womyn and guns. will it be controversial? If so, I think ectophiles can agree to disagree and learn what they may...or hit the delete key :) semper pax, Revvie We're Waking Up, Yes, its Good; We're waking up, I knew we would; There's a growing force of people who care, In all the years of struggle it seems we're making way, I have never been afraid to change the circumstances of the world". - Happy Rhodes, "waking up" On Wed, 8 Jun 1994, Sarah Noelle Pratt Ferguson wrote: > For some reason, and this wasn't the case before, I feel uncertain > about posting something which I think will be interesting to the > majority of ectoids. (ecto-ids) *heh* > > So. It is about womyn and guns. What do you think? > Should I post it, or not? I'd like some kind of feedback > for things like this in general; interesting articles which > don't necessarily have anything to do with the proverbial ectofodder. > > -seanympf > ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 20:58:41 PDT From: erik@falcon.kla.com (Erik Johnson) Subject: Re: passion |> But in any case, remember what they say: if you're not part of the |> solution, you're part of the problem. Naw. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. |> Think in dislocated random non-patterns and write that way, too. I try, but my internal chaos is unstable. It keeps degenerating into some kind of order. Erik patterns maybe, but as dislocated as possible _______________________________________________________________________________ Erik N. Johnson Don't believe the return address. KLA Instruments Corp. The one and only True Address is: San Jose, CA e_johnso@kla.com. - - - KLA's only opinion on the subject is that I should get back to work - - - In your head, no car is fast enough / In your heart, no love is true Would it ruin all your solitary fancies / If I told you that it isn't only you? -- Emma Bull, Cats Laughing, "For It All" ======================================================================== Date: 8 Jun 1994 20:57:33 -0800 From: "Ian Hendry" Subject: Depthcharge 2.5.4 Depthcharge 2.5.4 Hello, There appears to be a bug in your DepthCharge software version 2.5.4 in the "save accross restart" feature. It does not look like you handle cases where control calls are imbedded in the screen resource (not surprising since this imbedding feature was present but not used in the past). Please send me e-mail with a time and telephone number if you are still maintaining DepthCharge and I will talk you through the necessary changes. The bug number is 109733. Thanks, -Ian E-Mail: hendry@apple.com ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 21:13:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rod L. Bourland" Subject: Re: Thought Provoking Well, right after replying about whether you should post about womyn and guns, the very next post was your post on womyn and guns. Interesting article, though I would never own a gun. I am a relatively gentle looking gay man and about 20 years ago I was attacked merely for being near a gay beach. I didn't have a gun. If id had one and used it, I know I'd never would have been able to live with myself. I detest guns and believe handguns should be emliminated. Those are a few of the really deep thoguhts that that post brought up. One other thing it awakened in me - a slight resentment that guns were needed by womyn to defend themselves against males. It struck me as a bit sexist. Yeah, a lot of us men have tostosteroen problems :) - but there are very violent female gang members out there too. Good post. Food for thought.. Thanks. Peace and Love, Revvie We're Waking Up, Yes, its Good; We're waking up, I knew we would; There's a growing force of people who care, In all the years of struggle it seems we're making way, I have never been afraid to change the circumstances of the world". - Happy Rhodes, "waking up" ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 21:26:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rod L. Bourland" Subject: Re: Odd Pairings I _liked_ Elton John and in 1971 saw him as an opening act for Leon Russel. I went to see Roxy music, who opened for Deep Purple. I saw YES in 1972 or 1973 as they opened for _Black Sabbath_. I went to see Yes as top billed act, and the opening act was avery young "Eagles". But the strangest pairing I ever did see was Kip Odotto - a comediene - open for Genesis when Peter Gabriel was still with the group (It was the FoxTrot Tour) and they played the Roxy. I mean, a stand up comedienne before a Peter Gabriel/Genesis show? Was Peter playing a cosmic joke on us? He )Peter Gabriel) finished his set dressed as Santa Claus (It was a few days before Christmas) BTW, there were few laughs for Kip and a lot of embarrasing silent moments. He would have been more appropriate as an opening act for a Las Vegas Lounge band! :) But I don't think I've ever though about Kip until this day - Peter Gabriels performance was so unforgettable! Revvie We're Waking Up, Yes, its Good; We're waking up, I knew we would; There's a growing force of people who care, In all the years of struggle it seems we're making way, I have never been afraid to change the circumstances of the world". - Happy Rhodes, "waking up" ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 21:41:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rod L. Bourland" Subject: Re: Thought Provoking Guns make me cry too. And seeing one scares the bejeezus out of me. let alone having one pointed at me. And I would never by my child a toy gun. And I think ecto can handle a topic like this wihtout getting ugly. (I just shivered....thinking about Tori's "Me and a Gun"..... Revvie We're Waking Up, Yes, its Good; We're waking up, I knew we would; There's a growing force of people who care, In all the years of struggle it seems we're making way, I have never been afraid to change the circumstances of the world". - Happy Rhodes, "waking up" On Wed, 8 Jun 1994, John Relph wrote: > Valerie wrote: > > >I once held a gun, and doubt that I could do it again. My then-SO and I > >were at his friend's house, and the friend was showing off his new > >purchase. The gun was empty, but it scared me just looking at the thing. > >I kept my cool when it was my turn to hold that deadly piece of metal, but > >later on that night I cried. > > Which reminds me of my fun gun experience: my then-SO and I were at > her house. She is a well-trained prone and squat target shooter, and > knows about guns. She had her pistol, definitely unloaded, and just > for the grins, decided to point it at me. I nearly had a breakdown. > It made me cry and it still scares me to think about it. I really do > not like guns at all. (And the NRA can stuff their statistics.) > > An un-happy event. > > -- John > ======================================================================== From: Stuart Myerburg Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 00:45:36 -0500 Subject: Alison Moyet in Concert! I just got back from seeing Alison Moyet at the Roxy in Atlanta and it was a fantastic concert. It started off a bit slow with Billy Falcon, the opening act. Billy performed with an acoustic guitar and was accompanied by another guy on acoustic guitar and mandolin. While I was impressed by their guitar playing, the lyrics left a lot to be desired. The audience was not kind at all, which I thought was very rude. Billy was very unhappy about the reception, but he played on. Alison finally arrived on stage about an hour late. But it was well worth the wait. She brought along a keyboard player and two guitarists. One of the guitarists was the ubiquitous Pete Glenister who was here with Kirsty MacColl and co-wrote and produced Alison's new album. There was no drummer, so backing tapes provided the drums. Alison simply blew me away with her singing. It was flawless. She seemed to be really happy to be performing and pretty relaxed about the concert. However, she was taking sips of beer every so often and mentioned that while she normally never drinks, she has to have a shot of brandy before each concert and some beer while on stage or she can't handle being up there performing. I guess it works because the band messed up "Whispering Your Name" twice and she simply took it in stride and laughed about it. When I saw Cyndi Lauper in concert, she looked like she was going to kill someone when a similar incident occurred. I think I like Alison's way of handling it better... One thing that did surprise me was the number of Yaz songs she performed. I knew she would sing "Ode to Boy" since she redid it on _Essex_. But she also did "Only You," "Situation," and "Midnight." "Only You" and "Situation" were very faithful to the originals. "Midnight" was acoustic and she said it was the first time she had performed it in ten years. Anyway, it was a great concert, I had a front row view, and all Ectophiles should see her if she comes your way. Also, pick up _Essex_, her new album. It's wonderful and even Happy likes it! Here's an almost complete set list which isn't in order: Falling It Won't Be Long Love Resurrection Situation Midnight Ode to Boy Only You So Am I Whispering Your Name Getting into Something Dorothy Footsteps Rise (dedicated to all her "sisters") My Right Arm (reworked to sound very Yaz-ish) Wishing You Were Here Ne Me Quitte Pas (dedicated to a friend who had died of AIDS) Stuart __________________________________________________________________________ Stuart Myerburg labspm@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu "You are either in touch with lizard people or you are not." - Tori Amos __________________________________________________________________________ ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 23:54:49 -0500 From: iago@merle.acns.nwu.edu Subject: Re: Thought Provoking Rod asked me to forward this to the group: >If you fit the female stereotype by what you said about women and guns, >then I must be a stereotypical female - although most would describe me >as a gentle yet masculine man. >And yes, Valerie. Men believe in gun control, love and peace. > With peace and love & for gun control, I remain > Revvie > We're Waking Up, Yes, its Good; We're waking up, I knew we would; > There's a growing force of people who care, In all the years of struggle > it seems we're making way, I have never been afraid to change the > circumstances of the world". - Happy Rhodes, "waking up" ========================================================================== iago@merle.acns.nwu.edu "Patience, Iago. He was obviously less than worthy." -- Jafar "The hardest to learn was the least complicated." -- Indigo Girls ========================================================================== ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 22:56:48 PDT From: stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender) Subject: update on stevev Due to bizarre corporate management maneuverings, I have recently become gleefully unemployed. Why gleefully? I was getting tired enough of my job (trying to program computer games for a company that was becoming less and less interested in making games than making money) that I was about ready to quit anyway. Not only did they save me the difficult decision, but by laying me off they gave me two months pay as part of the severance agreement and made me eligible for unemployment benefits. So what am I going to do? Well, I'm not going to Disneyland but I am looking forward to my first real summer vacation in about nine years. Fortunately I have no debts and a lot of saved money, so I'm willing to live off stored fat for a while and just play. This means that I am looking with great interest at announcements of Ecto gatherings. One thing I think I'd like to do is travel. My feeling about the "women with guns" letter is that it's probably the practical solution. Ideally, one should be able to talk one's self out of a violent situation, or avoid it altogether, but if one is faced with an attacker ready to use violence, then at worst the only thing the attacker will respect is the threat of violence. My own moral code is that I will only use violence against someone who is threatening violence to me. It's not the pure vow against all violence that some feel is most correct, but to me it seems the best way to minimize violent behavior by discouraging those who would use violence _without_ provocation. -- Dogbert: "I've been thinking how wonderful it would be if all people renounced violence forever." Dilbert: "That's a beautiful thought, Dogbert." Dogbert: "If nobody else was violent, I could conquer the whole stupid planet with just a butter knife." ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 01:24:36 -0500 From: iago@merle.acns.nwu.edu Subject: Tori on Conan *sigh* She is just brilliant. Amazing. Wearing shorts and a sleeveless shirt, Tori took her trademark pose on the piano bench for a fascinating rendition of Cornflake Girl. The stage was sparse--just her and the piano--but there were obvious background vocals mixed in. Since I haven't seen her in concert this tour, I can't tell how similar it was to the live performance of this song, but CFG was brilliant and inspired. Tori is possibly the most emotional performer around, and it comes out in front of the camera. Camera angles of her hands on the keyboard highlight her technical skill; shots of her face capture her personal involvement in the song; and the whole picture draws attention to her all-around talent. Amazing song, amazing performance. *sigh* ==> valerie ========================================================================== iago@merle.acns.nwu.edu "Patience, Iago. He was obviously less than worthy." -- Jafar "The hardest to learn was the least complicated." -- Indigo Girls ========================================================================== ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 3:00:24 EDT From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: Thought Provoking > John wrote: > Which reminds me of my fun gun experience: my then-SO and I were at > her house. She is a well-trained prone and squat target shooter, and > knows about guns. She had her pistol, definitely unloaded, and just > for the grins, decided to point it at me. I nearly had a breakdown. > It made me cry and it still scares me to think about it. I really do > not like guns at all. (And the NRA can stuff their statistics.) Geez, I bet she never did anything like that in jest again. I hope she was properly sorry about what she put you through. :-( I didn't read the article Duchess posted, but I think it's fine that she posted it. As usual, Ecto discusses instead of flames. I've had 2 close encounters with guns. The first was when I was a kid and I found my dad's handgun. He used to go hunting and had lots of shotguns, but they were all locked away and I don't remember ever holding one of them. Finding the handgun was fascinating though. I remember holding it to my head and going "pow!" and then holding the gun out straight and pulling the trigger. It *fired*!! It fired and shot a hole in the refrigerator. I got into a lot of trouble, but the gun disappeared and I never saw it again. Never looked for it, either. The other time was being pistol-whipped and robbed. I've posted about that before. A friend and I were robbed just as we got into my car. Guys came up on each side and both used guns to hit us on the head while reaching in to find and take our purses. It was winter and I had my coat hood on, so I just got some bumps, but my friend had to have stiches. We were pretty lucky, but it was scary for a couple minutes there, not knowing if one or both of them would shoot. With the changing levels of depression I've gone through in the past 3 years, if we kept a gun "for protection" I would have used it on myself a long time ago. They're so easy to use. Yeah, I'd be dead. No question. Vickie ======================================================================== From: Tim Cook Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 11:06:37 BST Subject: CDC europe I just logged onto the CDC-europe database. The prices are a bit outrageous ($28.00 for a single CD) but I found stuff listed in there I though had gone forever (After the Fire, deleted Tom Robinson CDs, Heather Nova!). Most of the CDs seem to originate in Holland or Germany so I'm sure you could pick them up locally much cheaper than CDC is offering them. Worth checking out :-) tim PS Their telnet address is 199.35.15.100 (this is different from the regular CDC address) ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 13:35:04 +0100 (WET DST) From: "Just another cambian in the shadows...." Subject: Re: Tori on Conan On Thu, 9 Jun 1994 iago@merle.acns.nwu.edu wrote: > *sigh* She is just brilliant. Amazing. > > Wearing shorts and a sleeveless shirt, Tori took her trademark pose on the > piano bench for a fascinating rendition of Cornflake Girl. The stage was > sparse--just her and the piano--but there were obvious background vocals > mixed in. Since I haven't seen her in concert this tour, I can't tell how > similar it was to the live performance of this song, but CFG was brilliant > and inspired. Tori is possibly the most emotional performer around, and it > comes out in front of the camera. Camera angles of her hands on the > keyboard highlight her technical skill; shots of her face capture her > personal involvement in the song; and the whole picture draws attention to > her all-around talent. Amazing song, amazing performance. > > *sigh* Hi! Having discovered this list through #ecto on irc, i have been kinda lurking in the shadows with not a whole lot to say really...just reading and learning :)) But this description of tori really brought back to me the power of her live show i was at last month! Just her and a piano and an audience completely mesmerised for the 1 hour 40 mins she was on stage....it was one of the most magical moments in my relativly short yet eventful life :) thanx to valerie for reminding me of it...(not that i could really ever forget it!) I really wish i'd seen the show.....but the only american tv that seems to make it to our shores these days is re-runs of charlies angels :)))) Also, on the gun thread...it reminded me of my own gun stories from childhood...(does *everyone* have one i wonder??)... Firstly, my dad owns a gun....it's a huge double barrelled shotgun that he has not used in years (i converted him from hunting to golf...my one achievement :>). I have held it many times and it never frightened me because it was always unloaded and also because when i was smaller, it was so heavy, i was too busy trying not to drop it to be afraid! :) Anyhow, when i was about 12, he took me into a deserted quarry, put a plastic bottle in a bush, and gave me the gun and told me to shoot it. I took the thing and pointed it at the bottle and shot. It recoiled a bit, but not as much as i thought it would, mainly because i had it held so tight, if it had been a bazooka, i was not letting go! The bottle dissappeared and my dad told me to loose the other barrell anyway. Thing was, when i pulled the second trigger, there was no effect. After looking at the gun to decide if it was jammed or not, my dad saw that i had actually pulled both triggers at once and upon examining the bottle we saw it was unharmed. I had hit the bush and not the bottle from such a close range, it would have been a pretty hard feat to achieve if i had *tried* to do it! I remember how dissappointed my dad looked at this failure and also how utterly glad *i* felt that i had missed the damn thing...he never gave me the gun again.....i never wanted it....that was one of the happiest days of my life! But the one that i remember most vividly was when my dad took me out hunting when i was about 7 years old. Anyway....we shot nothing, and as we were driving home we stopped outside a field full of Plovers which are small pretty birds. I don't know why, but i convinced my dad to shoot one. He did and i scampered off into the field to get it. When i got there, the plover was very dead and messed up. Only then did it strike me that what had previously been a beautiful bird was now a piece of flesh and all down to me and what i guess was a child's wish to impress his father. I carried the bird back and felt sicker every step i took. That bird is now stuffed and sitting on my grandmothers sideboard. Everytime i visit, it stands there and looks at me and i get ashamed and guilty. I don't know if these ramblings have any relevance at all, but thanks to those episodes, i hate guns. I could never even point one at a person and i sincerely hope i never have to hold one again. I'm not saying they are evil or anything, if someone wants a gun, fine. Just don't show it to me. Jeez...i've been writing forever!! sorry to clutter ure mailboxes. :) Bren ---- Brendan Vaughan - Creed - Just another cambian in the shadows.... "I will not take these things for granted...." Toad The Wet Sprocket ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 Jun 1994 10:39:19 -0400 (EDT) From: lynne@bsbbs.columbus.oh.us (Lynne Evans) Subject: Unsubscribe Hello again! Guess I made an error in asking to suscribe to ecto! It seems that the messages are gated to this bbs anyway, so by subscribing, multiple copies will be sent, and clog the board! So, please unsubscribe me, but be assured that I will be reading all ecto messages! One question...does Happy ever tour? Thanks, Jessica. Hugs, Lynne ---- Lynne Evans lynne@bsbbs.columbus.oh.us The Big Sky BBS (+1 614 864 1198) ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)