Errors-To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #267 ecto, Number 267 Friday, 19 June 1992 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: this'n'that Birthday B-52's (Re: this'n'that ) LET'S LOOK AT THE LINES IN QUESTION Ectoprotocol (was Re: LET'S LOOK AT THE LINES IN QUESTION) *sigh* Insipid or Sanguine ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 01:20:50 -0400 From: gb10@gte.com (Gregory Bossert) Subject: Re: this'n'that Klaus wonders: >Greg, about visiting 21st Century Sound: >> within seconds by the RACKS of Happy CDs on display... not to mention >> the beautiful poster made from double-sized reproductions of the CD >> covers... >Are those posters still on the wall. I mean, Jess was with you, wasn't >she. ;) hahahah well, we tried -- but Lenny, the owner of 21st Century Sound, wanted them for himself :) and he was too nice to steal from :) i guess i have been hanging 'round bad influences (heya :) -- at the Arson Garden show at tomwer records today, i stole a poster right off the stage! (though i did ask James the guitar player, but that was mostly a ploy to start a conversation :) >> *plus* i had ordered a set for Klaus, but Klaus sent an order for two >> more complete sets, so Kevin was a bit confused... (as am i! Klaus??) >What's so confusing about ordering several sets? well, hey, *i* buy 3-5 copies of Warpaint at a time (i am serious :) but remember that Kevin is producing and writing music to provide an income for the two of them, while overseeing the AG organization and working with Happy on the new album -- he is very busy and rather easy to confuse, i suspect :) anyway, all is clear now, i hope :) i'll call and make sure :) (hah! another ploy to start a conversation :) footootles! -greg -- gb10@gte.com -- "i want to feel you in the dark, babe" -- HR (hee, though i choose my sig to fit my mood, i try not to use that one outside of ecto -- it is, perhaps, not entirely representitive of Happy's oeuvre, and i know she is a bit embarassed by any of her songs that contain the word "babe" :) "come here" is still a favorite song of mone, regardless :) ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 08:47:27 +0100 From: Terry Partis Subject: Birthday Happy birthday to David Lubkin and may it be the best day of the year on the 20th June. Jolly Hockeysticks Terry ======================================================================== Subject: Re: this'n'that Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 08:31:49 -0400 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu >Hey, there's a song from the B-52's on the radio (not hard to recognize) >right now, which I don't know. Does that mean the new album "Good Stuff" >is out???? Yup, must be, they are singing about "Good Stuff". Now, now, Klaus, musn't jump to conclusions! As I recall, streetdate for _Good Stuff_ is June 30th--almost 2 more weeks. The title track was released, oh, a week or two ago, I guess. It's a great song, but I really think their sound needs another female vocalist. 'Tis a pity that Cindy Wilson dropped out. >Next song on the radio: KaTe Bush with "Babooshka". I'd be _shocked_ to hear that on the radio here. Seems like all I ever get is "Wuthering Heights ('86 vocal)" (not that I'm complaining about hearing that!) Jeff ======================================================================== From: kyrlidis@athena.mit.edu Subject: B-52's (Re: this'n'that ) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 10:20:06 EDT A brief reminder. Julee Cruise has temprarily joined the band for their world tour! That's an interesting combination of vocals, I should say. Fred Schneider and Julee Cruise? Almost like Axl Rose dueting with KaTe ;) Later, Angelos ======================================================================== From: kyrlidis@athena.mit.edu Subject: Re: this'n'that Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 12:09:47 EDT Hi, Klaus says: >Angelos about an "old" cover: >> They are so expressive. Volume I has an urgency in its eyes, and is full of >> rage and fear(?), yet its hand is stretched out, and is either holding >> something in triumph, or is pointing at something/someone, or is fighting >> something off. >Hmmm, does someone know if this is the complete picture, or just a part >of it??? Maybe there's more on the original. I think someone should ask her. I already asked Happy, and Vickie had posted something about this a year ago. The Vol. I monster was originally painted on a motorcycle a long time ago, and its status nowadays is unknown. Happy says that it has either been painted over or is roaming down some highways in the Northeast!! Of course I neglected to ask what is the rest of the painting about. Maybe I should write another letter :) Angelos ======================================================================== Date: 19 Jun 92 12:39:00 EST From: jody_ferguson.asw.navairtestcen%pcgate@natc-fw.navy.mil Subject: LET'S LOOK AT THE LINES IN QUESTION Maybe it would be prudent of me to ask Steve what he meant about the line. Let's look at it. "In what must be some twisted sign of cosmic balance, our old friend Cynthia Rosas has begun posting to rec.music.gaffa again." The definition of "twisted" I get from this is synonymous with "bizarre", "perverted", or at best, "ironic". The "cosmic balance" reference seems to refer to karma. Now I wonder what would possess anyone who is NOT trying to be nasty to say that someone's posting to a public forum is a "twisted sign of cosmic balance". Now the "old friend" reference. I read the exchange between Steve and Cynthia on Gaffa quite a bit ago. Remembering that, I can only guess that the "old friend" part is an ironic way of saying "old adversary". Please correct me if I am wrong. I really hate to be wrong. Does she post to Ecto? Does she subscribe? Before this, I have never seen her name here. So even today, it still seems to me to have been a nasty and unnecessary remark. I am sure the people who would be especially concerned about Cynthia's return would have read it in Gaffa since most who know of her do subscribe to it. I have never seen a nasty remark about anyone on Ecto before. Since she apparently doesn't post here, I thought it unfair to make nasty references to her. I'm not trying to be nasty to Steve. I have nothing at all against him. I did however have something against his remark, and it tended to be the proverbial straw on the camel's back. The rest of my reasons are just a matter of my personal taste and I mean no reflection on anyone else. So, Jessica, the two lines were enough for me. Why can't someone post some information to Gaffa without someone else talking snidely (IMO) about it on a list she is not too likely to keep up with? Because she's the Anti-Vickie? I don't understand it. The "foot landing in a pile of manure" reference was a way of saying that. I meant *her* foot. Meaning that posting to Gaffa was like strolling in a pasture. Some people can walk through and come out with clean shoes while others never fail to find those hidden natural land mines. Poor analogy, but the only one I can think of right now. >I hope this isn't to imply that you've been "slammed" or "talked about >in a derogatory and negative way behind your back" on ecto... I'm sorry >for such events happening in your life, but i haven't seen any on ecto >and those lines were placed in the message as though they implied this. Weeeell...I kinda get the feeling from what I've received that people were wounded because someone said (horror of all horrors) that they no longer wished to subscribe to something they saw that offended their sensibilities. Cards on the table, when I hear Happy's music it makes me wanna open up.... My wrists. It is mega-depressing to me (and I listen to *some* depressing shit!) and I just would prefer not to listen to it. I felt that maybe The Happy Rhodes Mailing List was nowhere for someone with my attitude toward her music should be. Perhaps my exit should have been a silent one. Some things, however truthful, are better left unsaid. Sometimes I have the tolerance and patience of Ren Hoek on the Ren and Stimpy Show. (DO YOU HAVE TO KEEP TAPPING LIKE THAT?!?!?!? YOU...BLOATED SACK OF PROTOPLASM!!!!) That's my fault. I see it as a sickness. Maybe I inherited it from my father. *shiver* Some of the stuff I saw on Ecto was either insipid or sanguine to me. It is no one's fault but mine that I get irritated by that. I guess it doesn't seem like Smurfland to anyone else, and that's good. But I stayed on for any info on some of my favorite female artists (haven't seen anything about Sara Hickman though). I guess maybe I was just looking for an excuse, but as far as I'm concerned this is a good one. Unless Steve really meant Cynthia was a friend and he has some other definition of "twisted". I have not yet seen any evidence of that. I could be way off, but I have to go with gut feelings. They have never failed me. If they have this time, I apologize. But you must admit, this whole controversy gives people something to talk about. >and i'm still concerned that people think ecto is a place *for* >"bashing", "slamming", or "slighting" other people. that does disturb >me :( That is precisely my reason for bringing it up. I don't think it is. I am normally a lurker. The only items I remember posting here concerned Tori Amos and that was because a lot of people here like her. I don't even know Cynthia. But it irritates me to see what I consider a potshot toward someone who doesn't even post here. I wonder if the same post would have been made on Gaffa. If it was intended as a bitingly dry aside to be enjoyed exclusively on Ecto, it is that cliquishness that disgusts me even more. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + "You may walk like we do, Jody Ferguson:asw:navairtestcen + + Talk like we do... "The opinions expressed by the + + But you know how it is, U.S. Navy and the U.S Government + + You're not one of us... in general do not necessarily (and + + probably don't) reflect mine." + + -P. Gabriel, 1980 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ======================================================================== From: kyrlidis@athena.mit.edu Subject: Ectoprotocol (was Re: LET'S LOOK AT THE LINES IN QUESTION) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 13:48:21 EDT Hi, First of all thanks for posting your replies. I think this is all an accident! Jody probably didn't take the ectopledge: E C T O P L E D G E ------------------- 'I will be mean and nasty to anyone not in the ecto-clique' 'Every non-ectophile is a barbarian and deserves to be treated as one' 'I will not flame, not because I think it sucks, but because I *have* to' 'I will never, ever, possibly, think about posting anything that anyone, might possibly find slightly offensive or not to the taste of the collective clique' 'I will listen to the 1st4 and Warpaint at least 10 times a day and if there aren't enough hours in the day I will listen to more than one at a time' 'Happy is god. She has never recorded anything worse than KaTe. Even the cat meowing in 'No One here' is superior artistic expression' 'I will never make fun of Happy's lyrics. I will have Happy readings daily, and memorize all her songs backwards in case there are hidden messages in some undiscovered language.' 'I will adore her monsters and never make fun of them either' 'I will ostracize any heretic blasphemes that might try to destroy the saintly and orderly fuzzy-blueness of ecto by filtering through their offensive un-Happy opinions through subliminal messages and backmasking' ---------------- [For the humour impaired this is my attempt at humour] Lighten up. Steve was making a joke, you didn't like it. You find Happy's music depressing. So do I, sometimes, depending on my mood. I like it, you don't. So what? jeez.... Angelos ------- 'My brains fall out, they're loosely wrapped'- Happy Rhodes [See there are dissenting opinions: I think this line is totally silly. Am I going to be ostracized? Time will tell] :) ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 13:57:53 -0400 From: gb10@gte.com (Gregory Bossert) Subject: Re: Ectoprotocol (was Re: LET'S LOOK AT THE LINES IN QUESTION) heya! :) >'My brains fall out, they're loosely wrapped'- Happy Rhodes >[See there are dissenting opinions: I think this line is totally silly. >Am I going to be ostracized? Time will tell] actually, that line makes complete sense to me :) i was gonna post somethign silly about ostracizing you, but it didn't seem worth wasting the bandwidth... :) i have given up on Jody -- he is simply repeating his original arguments. i hope someone comes up with something better to talk about!!! :) ta. -greg ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 14:35:17 -0400 From: gb10@gte.com (Gregory Bossert) Subject: *sigh* that last post was meant to go to Angelos... though the content is accurate and sincere, the style is not appropriate for an open list, and i apologize to Jody and anyone else that might be offended by my flippant tone... *sigh* after all the talk of "snideness" i am *very* embarassed! since the damage is done, i'll repeat that we *do* need some better topics to discuss! can't we analyze the cat meows or something? footah! -greg -- gb10@gte.com -- "please be kind to my mistakes" -- KTB ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 11:55:13 -0700 From: Michael Peskura Subject: *sigh* greg sez> can't we analyze the cat meows ... ? Hah! You leave my BirthSister Courtney alone!! If you try picking on her in your usual snide ecto manner, i will be forced to take drastic measures!!! :) :) Mp ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 12:09:50 PDT From: stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender) Subject: LET'S LOOK AT THE LINES IN QUESTION Just in case Jody didn't get my previous reply (which I believe I sent both to ecto and to his e-mail address), I will repeat myself briefly. Although, Jody, I'd have to claim you're repeating yourself at length. Jody said: >Maybe it would be prudent of me to ask Steve what he meant about the >line. Let's look at it. >"In what must be some twisted sign of cosmic balance, our old friend >Cynthia Rosas has begun posting to rec.music.gaffa again." >The definition of "twisted" I get from this is synonymous with >"bizarre", "perverted", or at best, "ironic". The "cosmic balance" >reference seems to refer to karma. Now I wonder what would possess >anyone who is NOT trying to be nasty to say that someone's posting to a >public forum is a "twisted sign of cosmic balance". Now the "old >friend" reference. I read the exchange between Steve and Cynthia on >Gaffa quite a bit ago. Remembering that, I can only guess that the "old >friend" part is an ironic way of saying "old adversary". Please correct >me if I am wrong. I really hate to be wrong. Oh DARN. I guess you're in for a bit of a disappointment, then. My main intention was to note that Cynthia Rosas, who had not posted to rec.music.gaffa for a long time, reappeared within days of the return of Vickie, who had not posted to ecto or r.m.g for a long time either. Others, including Vickie and Melissa Caldwell, have already commented in r.m.g about this coincidence, and referred to an old joke that Cynthia and Vickie are actually the same person. To a certain extent, I was trying to imply that Cynthia was an old adversary (but not a current one), and I did feel that it was bizarre and ironic (but not perverted) that Cynthia would resurface by coincidence at almost the same time as Vickie, as if they were karmically linked. But you are putting an exclusively bad spin on the whole interpretation, as if my whole intent was to slam Cynthia, which is wrong. If my earlier reply didn't get through, then I will state again that Cynthia and I are not enemies. At one point in the past I disagreed with her confrontational approach and argued with her about it, but she has mellowed since then and I am more willing to ignore her attempts to rile people. If you haven't seen a nasty remark about anyone in Ecto before, you haven't been a long-time subscriber or you weren't paying attention. Ecto participants are not unfailingly benevolent. And to prove that, I am going to say that I find your continued arguments about this tiresome and pointless. You take one sentence from one of my posts, interpret it in the worst possible way, then attempt to justify and rejustify your position from an interpretation that I have already tried to tell you is wrong, as if I couldn't possibly know what my intention really was or that no other interpretation of that sentence was reasonable. I have nothing against you leaving the mailing list if you don't like it. Especially if your participation is going to consist mostly of criticizing people's posts rather than criticizing music. Now I really am getting bitchy. I didn't sign Angelos's Ectoprotocol Pledge either. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 15:16:36 -0400 From: lizzylou@world.std.com (elizabeth w warwick) Subject: Insipid or Sanguine Jody, Thanks for giving ectophiles somethings to talk about and chew over. Controvery and dissent are always welcome. However, most of your posts contain negative comments about the tone here on Ecto. Descriptions like "insipid or sanguine" and "a blue fuzzy facade" do little to encourage the sharing of opinions, info, etc. The tone of a post is a VERY personal thing. Ecto is a special place (to me at least :->) because people respect each other's communication styles. And what a variety of styles there are. Perhaps you should read Mitch's now infamouse post re "rendered up the spout." What, pray tell, is insipid or sanguine about that? If you are truly unhappy or irritated with the tone here (and not just pissed off about a certain comment), I suggest one of two things: 1. Unsubscribe. (You may have done this already). Why read something that makes you unhappy. Sort of like buying 10 books by an author you despise, then moaning about how much you dislike that person. 2. Stop lurking and POST. We all learn from each other. If you want to make a change here on ecto, you'll have to participate. Don't like the tone? Show us a new one. Sorry for the spelling mistakes. :-( lizzylou who! ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 15:17:36 EDT From: jessica Subject: Re: LET'S LOOK AT THE LINES IN QUESTION Hey! Just to make sure everyone knows the state of things! Jody has unsubscribed from Ecto. He doesn't liek Happy's music, and that's a perfectly fair and good reason for unsunscribing. he is continuing to post followups to the list when the message sent to him was also sent to the list, which I feel is perfectly reasonable. However, I do think it might be best for this discussion to be taken to private e-mail at this point. I think all people invovled (including Jody) have explained that their points are not really about or for this list anymore. Up the count for time's i've suggested something about the content of the list to 2. jessica || jessica || It is this that || Don't try to tell me there's no reason for || || lawrence || brings us || any moment in time, every memory of mine. || || koeppel || together. || Those years are lines of color on my face, || || dembski || --Kate || the past is warpaint. --Happy Rhodes || ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is a README file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me (or leave in the incoming directory, just let me know) things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)