Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #968 ecto, Number 968 Friday, 14 January 1994 Today's Topics: *-----------------* EctoWorld, MU* research Throat Singing...Step 1... A bit of Hubble info, and some music stuff... Re: Subs & grinders Siberry, etc. Grinders and Subs Re: Pianosphere Ring around the rosy, revisited ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 09:54:28 EST From: Alice1@amiranda.slisp.cs.cmu.edu Subject: EctoWorld, MU* research This is a long post but I humbly think anyone at all interested in MU*s will find it interesting, particularly with regard to EctoWorld. I've been MU*ing off and on since 1989, which is pretty much when they came out, so I thought I'd try to provide some helpful information and do some research on possible social MU* homes for EctoWorld. I'm trying to be very logical and practical in the survey of places, although some places I am more familiar with of course. Hopefully this message will also provide new people (or newbies as they say) with info to get started with. I know some of you know a lot about MU*s already but you will probably still be interested in my search and the list of specific sites (or worlds) and their features. (Much more info than the mudlist.) WARNING: I do want to restate my warning that many places do not like people MU*ing. However, our main purpose is communication, not gaming. Also, I should restate the warning that these things are addicting, although not as addicting as gaming MU*s can be for many people. Vickie vicks: > to know who everybody is. It certainly wouldn't be manditory to either > be anonymous or non-anonymous, but I personally hope that Ectophiles > will choose to let other Ectophiles know who they are. Especially if > there will be a lot of non-Ectophiles running around checking the place > out. Something interesting is that many places (or worlds) have guilds, or group affiliations, such as Hitchhikers :), Cyberpunks, etc. These aren't for gaming, they are just for people to bond. We could have our own guild or sub-guild within an established world. > But, if we started it one place, it could be easily moved later (right?) No, only if it is our own MU* OR we build within the right type of MU*. Not all types of MU*s make it easy to move things and even if they do you can only move them between similar *types* of MU*s. There are many advantages to picking a popular type: you can move things to a new world (in case the current place dies, or we get our own, or you want to have it at more than one place); the more popular the *type* the more likely one of the sites will be good; and there will be more places where you will already be familiar with the commands. Okay, so we should pick a common type of social MU* that allows us to fairly easily move what we build. Make sense? > > Admin'ing a MU* requires programmer-level > > skill and TONS of time. This is not something I would be able to do. One > > Me neither, obviously :-(. Not only do I not know anything about programming Me either, for many reasons. (You also need the computer on the net: CyberMUSH, for example, takes 8M RAM by itself when running and takes 15M disk space, with backups. It's not all that big yet.) > > I say this is something we MUST do. > > That's the spirit!! Yay! :) Well, here's how many of each *type* of MU* are registered for official listing. I made the basic list from the list of MU*s I mentioned before (ftp to caisr2.caisr.cwru.edu in /pub/mud). I then added my own comments about the type, especially if it is mainly for gaming or socializing, if I know. Type Number Comments -------------------------------- MUDWHO servers 6 Not a MU*, these list who is currently on several MU*s AberMUDs 15 Gaming bsxs 1 Rare, outside US cools 2 Rare dgds 3 Rare, outside US DikuMUDs 104 Gaming DUMs 3 Rare, outside US Havens 2 Rare LPmuds 191 Gaming mares 1 Rare MOOs 11 Socializing TinyMUCKs 15 Socializing MUGs 1 Rare TinyMUSEs 13 Socializing, seem to be *very* similar to MUSHs TinyMUSHs 47 Socializing oxmuds 1 Rare, outside US talkers 8 Socializing, small, not good building, not all same TeenyMUDs 1 Rare TinyMUDs 2 Rare UberMUDs 1 Rare UriMUDs 1 Rare YAMUDs 1 Rare There isn't too much point in investigating the "Rare" ones since one would want to be able to move what one has built to another place if needed. Also, these are often one person's experimental types. The ones I marked "outside US" is mainly just for info. No one seems to want gaming for Ecto, and I agree (although games can and are programmed into social MU*s). The "talkers" I tried out either had very limited building or none at all and they were not all inter-compatible. Plus there weren't many so I ruled them out. So, that leaves, in order of frequency: TinyMUSHs 47 Socializing 18 TinyMUCKs 15 Socializing 4 TinyMUSEs 13 Socializing 2 MOOs 11 Socializing 4 (You can leave the "Tiny" part off the names, people rarely say that part.) The last number is the number of that type that don't have a restricted theme for building that would exclude ecto and don't require registration. (Themes out there are often based around specific sci-fi series.) However, there isn't really any reason we can't use one that requires registration, but it does discourage people somewhat. In my opinion then, we should look at MUSHs because they are by far the most common and do allow one to download and transfer what you have built more easily than any other type I have used. I admit I have building experience with MUSHs and prefer them. I have also used MUCKs a lot, but not much for building. I'm trying to be objective though. In addition, it's obvious that those who really know and love social MU*s, namely those who have started their own, prefer MUSHs. MUSEs are extremely similar to MUSHs, judging from the commands and even the format of the help as well as from other people's opinions. Even fairly detailed building seems to be nearly identical. They obviously have a common point of origin. I believe that those out there who have already built in a MUSE can move their stuff to a MUSH via the @decompile command pretty easily. (I've used this to move things myself, although only between MUSHs.) (BTW, MUSH is believed to stand for Multi User Simulated Hallucination.) Okay, below is a list of specific worlds of all 4 types above, showing important information about them not found in the mudlist. Also, this list includes fewer than are in the mudlist but does include a few *not in the mudlist* (I knew about them). It's not that long. I first used the mudlist to eliminate worlds that had incompatible themes with Ecto. I didn't limit the list to MUSHs since I know people like to explore and I use other types myself. The info in the table was added by me and I am responsible for errors. I also put some worlds on the list because they are interesting and not because they would be good for Ecto building. I just thought Ectophiles might be interested in them anyway (some are at Rutgers for example). The actual addresses of the places are at the end of this post. Key to the table with best answer in []: Regist. = Is registration required? [n] Build = Is building allowed? [y] Quota = Is there a limit on how much you can build? [n] Age = It's minimum age, as known to me. Could be much older. [old] (Really only important if it's not authorized. See below.) Where = Approximate geographic location. Not too relevant really. Auth = Is it authorized to be running by those who own the computer. [y] (Important because many places are shut down once discovered.) Version = Version of MUSH/MUCK/MUSE/MOO program used. [common but new one] (Old MU*s can upgrade usually unless they customized a lot.) Blanks indicate I don't know. I didn't have time to look at everything. -----MUSHs----- NAME Regist. Build Quota Age Where Auth Version Cyber n y n 6m UK y TinyMUSH 2.0.10 Good intro course for newbies. Friendly, as is the owner, whom I know. It has guilds, like the Hitchhikers :). Not huge *yet* but lots of room (1.6G disk/132M RAM machine) and would like more building. Fantasia y >1yr Global n y y >2yr NY PennMUSH 1.50 SpaceMadness y y n >1yr OK y TinyMUSH 2.0.8 TinyCWRU n y n 1990 OH y TinyMUSH 2.0.8 Nice newbie intro. Friendly. I just went there for the first time. This is on the *very* machine where the mudlist is stored for ftp. TinyTim n y n 1990 TX y VERY customized Old, nice help. However, it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to move objects from here to another MUSH: a serious problem (It's a customized and old 1991 MUSH version). It probably isn't going anywhere though. Apex n TinyMUSH 2.0.10 Posse n PennMUSH 1.50 Shadowrun n TinyMUSH 2.0.9 Sprawl Prime n TinyMUSH 2.0.10 TooMUSH ]I[ n TinyMUSH 2.0.10 TrippyMush n TinyMUSH 2.0.9 -----MUCKs----- NAME Regist. Build Quota Age Where Auth Version Furry y y? >1yr People play animals. Nails y y >1yr Rutgers NAILS 2.0 Modified version of MUCK 2.2. QuartzParadise y n - 1989!! Rutgers y Oldest MU* I know of! Nice people but not popular. Loveable. :) Qwest n y >3yr WA 2.2fb4.1 -----MUSEs----- NAME Regist. Build Quota Age Where Auth Version Micro y y y MIT y MicroMUSE 1.7b1 Education theme. Involved registation process. Rhostshyl n y y Cornell NycMUSE 2.0.p2 Magic and medieval theme. Time y MIT -----MOOs----- NAME Regist. Build Quota Age Where Auth Version Lambda n >2yr SanJose Most of it is built inside a humongous mansion. TechMOOseum n SanJose y Run by the San Jose Tech Museum of Innovation, a cool place! :) I imagine people actually in the museum use it. -----END----- Okay, so what does all this mean, practically speaking? :) Well, as I said, MUSHs seems to be the way to go, but there seem to be two different types of MUSHs. I couldn't really tell much difference but I do think it would be wise to pick a TinyMUSH 2.0.x (as opposed to a PennMUSH) since they are more common. Okay, which one? Well, that's a tough one. If I were to pick now it would be either CyberMUSH or CWRU, but I really should look into CWRU more first so I currently lean toward Cyber. The good thing of course is that we can move if we use a TinyMUSH. There are many posssible TinyMUSHs I didn't have the time to look into. Fantasia deserves further investigation as I used to have a char there but I really don't plan to do any more investigative reporting so I'll see what y'all say. :) However, I have to say that I don't think TinyTim is a good choice because it is running such a custom version of MUSH. There is no @decompile command and hence it is basically impossible to move objects out of there, not to mention that the commands that make up the object wouldn't all be compatible with another system. (On TinyTim there is a help file that lists conversions from present MUSH 2.0 code to their version of MUSH, and it lists about 100 things.) It's not an old version of MUSH but a rewritten, custom version made from an old MUSH version. In spite of it's good points I wouldn't want to build there personally. I also don't think MicroMUSE is a good choice for a few reasons. One is that we don't really fit with their advertised theme of education. Another is that the registration process is the most rigorous I have seen. Lastly, there does seem to be quite a quota restriction on how much you can build, which would really hinder EctoWorld, IMO. From a personal standpoint, most of the people I run into in MU*s are younger than me, and being on MicroMUSE may increase that probability. It's not that I have anything against meeting youger people but I'd like to meet a wider range of ages, like on Ecto. I love all ages. TechMOOseum seems really interesting from a social standpoint, and I may hang out there a bit but it's not a MUSH and dealing with newbies from the physical museum all the time could get pretty tedious. Well, I invite you to visit CyberMUSH. Babbage, the owner, is really fun and warm, although swamped at times (sound like someone we know? *smile at Vickie*). Wherever you go, if possible, set your @doing to Ecto (or some such clue) and any ectophile there will hopefully find you. You do this on MUSHs and MUSEs by typing: @doing Ecto This will display the word Ecto by your name in the who list. Finally, here is a list of the actually addresses for the MU*s I listed. I used numeric addresses since that is more universal although it's more reliable to use word addresses (you can get them from the mudlist). The following is the actual format of a tiny.world file used by tinyfugue, for those who have tinyfugue. Otherwise use telnet
on unix and telnet
/port= on VMS and who knows what elsewhere. :) Most places allow you to "connect guest guest" or some variation, that is username guest and password guest, to explore without making a character or registering. If lines go off the side of the screen then you need to turn on line wraping somewhere, like your terminal (or emulator). (Cyber is repeated twice because tinyfugue automatically goes into the first world listed unless you tell it not to and I didn't want the first one to be the dummy line ***MUSHs*** that I put in.) ---Start Cut here--- /addworld CyberMUSH 146.227.102.76 6250 /addworld ***MUSHs*** 0.0.0.0 0 /addworld Cyber 146.227.102.76 6250 /addworld Fantasia 128.95.10.119 4201 /addworld Global 128.151.220.22 4201 /addworld Space 139.78.9.1 6250 /addworld CWRU 129.22.24.22 4201 /addworld TinyTim 129.200.149.200 5440 /addworld Apex 130.63.237.12 4201 /addworld Posse 128.153.32.5 4201 /addworld Shadowrun 128.2.116.75 4201 /addworld SprawlPrime 130.39.129.221 6250 /addworld Too3 192.33.116.108 7070 /addworld Trippy 128.153.32.6 7567 /addworld ***MUCKs*** 0.0.0.0 0 /addworld After5 128.160.24.249 9999 /addworld Furry 138.74.0.10 8888 /addworld Nails 128.6.128.5 5150 /addworld Quartz 128.6.60.6 9999 /addworld Qwest 128.95.10.119 9999 /addworld ***MUSEs*** 0.0.0.0 0 /addworld Micro 18.43.0.102 4201 /addworld Rhostshyl 128.253.180.15 4201 /addworld Time 18.43.0.179 4201 /addworld ***MOOs*** 0.0.0.0 0 /addworld Lambda 13.2.116.36 8888 /addworld Tech 198.92.128.1 8888 /addworld ***WHOLists*** 0.0.0.0 0 /addworld Who 128.160.24.249 6889 ---End Cut here--- Well, my mind is definitely MUSH now, namely EctoMUSH. Happy MU*ing! -Alice1 ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 10:31:47 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Sampson Subject: Throat Singing...Step 1... Okay, for the two or three weirdo masochists who wanted to know, and for the rest of you who are self-conscious enough to know that only weirdo masochists (myself included) even WANT to sing like all those monks.... The principle is simple: You create three notes. One in your throat, one in your sinuses, and (not quite as simply) one in your mouth. First the throat: 'member all those times you went to the doctor, and he/she said: "Say ahhhhhh..." Well, that's all there is to it. Actually, there are 5 or 6 vowel sounds you can make with your throat (oh, no, another pronunciation problem): In alphabetical order (but NOT the preferred order (i.e., from lowest to highest pitch) which I don't remember, these are akin to the vowels in most romance languages: AH (broad "a") EH (short "e") IH (short "i") OH (medium "o", as in "coffee") OO (as in "broom") UH (as in "duh") Now, the temptation is great for your mouth to help your throat out in the pronunciation of these vowels....Don't...you'll be needing it later. BTW, I find the AH, or the UH the easiest....they come out rather low-pitched. The usual(?) warning arises: The very high and very low pitches require alot of air. There is probably a mid-to-low range pitch that is resonant for you...you'll know it when you find it as your throat and/or chest will vibrate more than on the other pitches. On to the sinuses. This one is potentially funny, as when your sinuses vibrate, it tickles. The sound you're after is that of an N or an M(?). Imagine you are saying no in that nasal way that is usually written "uh-uh" or something like that. Or imagine that you're saying "Hmmmm?" in nearly-non-verbal-response to someone's question which you either didn't hear or don't understand. Or imagine some one very attractive is walking by, and you let out with an "Hmmmmm!" (with a lilt at the end...a rising pitch that is). Essentially, what you're doing is humming. The difference here is you need to learn to get it louder than usual, since you're usually probably only humming for your own enjoyment, and need only hear it in your head. You need to project, or it will be lost to the vowel coming from your throat, which would naturally be much louder. Now learn to combine the two: Open your mouth slightly (keep it relaxed, though) and "tone". When you go to add the nasal note, you will probably notice that your tongue will press some against the roof of your mouth. Fiddling about with this muscle you probably weren't even aware you had will serve as the "balance" control...Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to describe the right position....you'll just have to recognize it when you get it. Now add the nasal hum. At first, you will probably switch on/off between the two until you get that tongue/palate thing right. Suddenly a note will spring forth from your mouth, which is really a combination of two notes. It'll sound eerie. Congratulations, you're 2/3 of the way there. Finally, there is the mouth. (Now, my office-mate and co-throat-singer just walked in, and in an effort to clarify the allocation of sounds to body parts....OOOOOHHHHH! We decided that we didn't believe the guy who taught us when he implied that the vowels ONLY come from the throat...it's a cooperative effort AWWWWW..... Back to the mouth (for all you orally fixated people).... The only sound that I'm aware of that can be added by the mouth is the "R" (not ARE, but rather R). You will quickly(?) discover how to form this sound with your tongue....or fail to do so. To my ear (which has heard, (and forgiven) many strange things) there is the potential for merely manipulating the ....uh....(excuse me all non-synth-playing folks)..."envelope"....sort of a complex notion of the "tone" control on your stereo. Opening your mouth wider while curling your tongue in the indescribable way (WOW!) will potentially alter the sound's "brightness" or "muffledness?" without adding the third tone....Forgive, again, where emailed words break down. PostScript: While I referred to the vowels as having what amounted to explicit pitches, it should be noted that you can play with any of the pitches while holding any or both of the others constant....This allows you to form chords. You'll probably find a set of 2 or three (if you can get that "r" sound) notes which forms a natural chord that is relatively easy to maintain without passing out. My office mate reports having experienced giddiness and bliss-like feelings after doing this for a while (Hey, a LEGAL drug...Let's see the DEA get us on that one). What with him having studied TM *and* having received a PhD in Neuroscience, I believe him when he insists that this is not merely hypoxia... Enjoy yourselves....Literally! Epilogue: If you try to sing like the Gyuto Monks, you will quite probably hurt yourself. I learned that which I described above, and then tried it with the CD, and found out, much to my shock and surprise, that they were singing about 2 octaves lower than I was able to. At such low frequencies, I have to imagine that bone and muscle begin to disintegrate. Well, back to work. Send your questions/comments/complaints (but no law suits) to: .----------------------------------------------------------------------. ./| Darkness creeps in like a thief and offers no relief | |/| Why are you shaking like a leaf? | |/| Come on, come talk to me. .-----------------------| |/| -PG "Come Talk to Me | Chris Sampson | |/| | chris@neuron.uchc.edu | |/`-----------------------------------------------`-----------------------' |///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// `------------------------------------------------------------------------' ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 11:19:05 -0500 (EST) From: SANDOVAL@stsci.edu Subject: A bit of Hubble info, and some music stuff... Hi everyone, As you all may have heard by now, the Hubble Servicing Mission was an outstanding success. :) I haven't been able to discuss it, but now I can. Everything has been going EXTREMELY well, with no major problems, and few minor ones. The images that they released yesterday were from the Wide Field Planetary Camera II (WFPCII) and the Faint Object Camera (FOC). The other two instruments on board, the Faint Object Spectrograph (FOS) and the Goddard High Resolution Spectrograph (GHRS) don't give pretty pictures, so the average person wouldn't be interested in their results. :) Seriously, unless you know what you're looking at, it's just a squiggly line on a plot. :) There are some .GIF files of the images popping up on the Net. These are two sites that I saw in sci.astro: jplinfo.jpl.nasa.gov /IMAGES SEDS.LPL.Arizona.EDU /pub/WFPC2 The jpl site was too busy for me to log into, but the Arizona site was fine. Unfortunately, they are .GIF's so they are only 256 colors. They are still quite impressive. I have seen the actual prints and they are amazing. All employees are supposed to get copies later, and my wife Jenn is going to try to pick up some more stuff at the American Astronomical Society meeting today. Since she is a member of the GHRS team, as well as a public relations assistant, we get all kinds of neat stuff. :) So, we are all really excited here, and it's been tough keeping everything under wraps for the last few weeks. If anyone has any specific questions, I'll try to answer them as best as I can. On another topic, I recently picked up Sarah McLaughlin's "Solice" CD. I REALLY like it. I'd heard "Into the Fire" on the radio, and I liked that. I will definitely get FTE when it's available here... Also, I've been trying to get into Jane's WIWAB, but it's just not working. There are a few parts that I like, but overall it's just not doing much for me. I'll hang onto it though, because of Vickie's suggestion, and the fact that I NEVER want to give up anything once I've bought it. :) A bit of good news is that I've heard Tori's new single "God" and I DO like that. As some of you may remember, I didn't like LE at all really. My problem with it was that I found myself too distracted by Tori's breathing. I can here her take a deep breath before each line, which to my ears, makes it sound really strained. I do like her voice when she sings, but the breathing just distracts the hell out of me. (I'm weird, I know. :) ). I find that with "God", the heavier sound doesn't make the breathing quite so obvious to me. Maybe I'll take a chance when the album comes out... :) This does bring up something that I think was discussed LONG ago, but I don't recall any recent discussion. When I listen to music, the first thing I do is just listen. I don't look at any words until I'm familar with the songs. As a result, I'll like a lot of songs with very simple lyrics, because they sound so good. Lyrics to me, are like icing on the cake. I have found that I can't like a song BECAUSE of lyrics, but they can increase my enjoyment of a song that I already like. What does everyone out there do with new music? Do you pour over the lyrics the first time you listen? Can you like a song based on it's lyrics? Obviously, there's no "right way" to listen to music, I was just curious about other people's styles. Wow, this has turned out MUCH longer than expected. I guess that's because I've been so out of it recently. :) I've still got some e-mails to catch up with and hopefully I can do that this weekend. I don't think I'll be going out at all, unless I want to freeze. :) Take care everyone, John ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 08:33:00 -0800 From: brianb@netcom.com (Brian Bloom) Subject: Re: Subs & grinders Well, gotta make my voice heard here too. My folks are from Pennsylvania (but yinz already knew that ;) and when I was growing up we *always* had hoagies. I've really confused some sub shop owners who were unfamiliar with the term (sigh). Anyway, here is Br!an's patented way to make a hoagie: (Copyright 1994) 1. Take a hoagie roll and slit it lengthwise about 90% through. No, don't lop a piece out like Subway does. (*sigh*) Good hoagie rolls are hard to find (damn near impossible in Texas. They keep trying to pawn off these miniature "bolillos" on me, which simply will not do.) One can either go for the family size hoagie, which should be 2 to 3 feet long, or an individual roll, which should be no shorter than 9 inches long. The roll should be about as big around as a 1 liter bottle (or your forearm if you don't have a bottle handy) and should not have those ridiculous slits that bakers seem to feel are necessary on the side of the bread. 2. Carefully open the hoagie rolls as wide as possible without splitting the seam at the bottom. 3. Take slices of cheese, usually American, but cheddar and provolone can be used for personal preference, and lay them in equal proportions along both sides of the open hoagie roll. 4. Take cold cuts, specifically beer salami, cotto salami, bologna, and maybe ham, and cut each slice in half. Place each piece in the hoagie, trying to make an even distribution if possible. 5. Take onions and chop them into thim pieces and lay these along the "trough" in the bottom of the hoagie. 6. If you like tomatoes (<- did I just pull a Quayle?) cut them into small even pieces and distribute them along the sides of the hoagie. 7. Take fresh crunchy lettuce and shred it carefully, and fill the remainder of the area in the middle of the hoagie. 8. Then take italian dressing (some prefer the creamy varieties) and sprinkle (or pour if ya *really* like it) it so that it gets trapped in the lettuce. If saving this for lunch later, do *not* apply dressing where it can be absorbed by the bread, as this produces soggy, unpleasant eating. 9. Wrap the hoagie with a paper towel to catch dressing drips and enjoy! *Note* that no mustard and mayonnaise are used! Only italian dressing (or vinegar and oil for some) will do. Geez, writing this has me literally salivating for one now. (but it's still only 10 in the morning. *sigh*) br!an __ ____ __ ____ __ __ (__==__) /\ \ / \_\ / /\ / \ \ / |\ / /\ (oo) ( moo.) / \_\ / /\ |_| / / /| /\ \ \ / ||/ / / /-------\/ -' / /\ | |\ \/ /_/_ / / / \ \/ \ \ / |/ / / / | U.T.|| / \/ |_| \ __ \_\ /_/ / \ /\ \_\ / /| / / * ||----|| / /\ ./_/ \ \ \/_/_\_\/ \ \ \/_// / | / / ^^ ^^ \ \/ |_| \ \_\ /_/\ \ \_\ /_/ /|_/ / Br!an Bloom \__/_/ \/_/ \_\/ \/_/ \_\/ \_\/ brianb@netcom.com .. but music hides me so well, ..and reveals me.. oh well - HR ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 09:01:31 PST From: hanson@ast.saic.com (Jeffrey Hanson) Subject: Siberry, etc. As for the people discussing Jane Siberry insidiousness, how her music just creeps into your soul and grabs you, I'd have to agree. My first exposure to Jane was when a friend of mine bought The Speckless Sky and played it for me. I liked it, but never thought too much more about her. When The Walking came out I bought it. I played it. I liked a couple of songs, but as a whole it was a little too strange. It wore me out to listen to it. It ended up not getting played much. When WIWAB came out, I decided to give her another chance. Before I bought it, I started playing The Walking again. I was amazed at the complexity. I was amazed at the poetry of the lyrics. I obviously liked it. I bought When I Was a Boy. At first, I didn't really like it. A couple of the bass lines surprisingly hooked me (The Temple, All the Candles), but Sweet Incarnadine drove me up the wall. Then one day, I was listening to it in my car and something clicked. It just all fit together. It was like putting the last piece in a jigsaw puzzle. All of a sudden the album made sense--it just wasn't a bunch of separate songs. I couldn't get enough of it. I played it over and over. I still play it. In my opinion, it is easily the best album of 1993. As I've said here before, when I was home for Christmas I played it for my Mom. She usually has good taste in music, and I expected that she would like it, but I wasn't sure if she would like it right away. When I played it for her, she was crying by the end. She couldn't believe what a powerful, emotional album it is. She went out the next day and bought a copy for herself. And as John Sandoval was asking about how you listen to music: Lyrics definitely help me appreciate an album. I recently reread the lyrics to WIWAB as I played it and was amazed at how complex the album is as a whole. Also, having an understanding of what Jane went through as she wrote the album also helped me appreciate the album more (the death of her mother, for example). I've found that the albums I like the best are the albums that I want to sit down and read the lyrics along as it plays. Before I did that with Happy, her music didn't do too much for me. I couldn't really understand a lot of the things she said, and had no idea what she was talking about. (He's Alive, for instance, sounded very Christian, but after reading the lyrics, it made a little more sense.) But, there are other bands, whose lyrics are pretty simple, straight-forward and you don't need lyrics sheets. Book of Love is a good example--they sing sugary pop songs, but they sound like they're having so much fun doing it, I don't mind that most of the lyrics are downright silly. But they will also never make my #1 album of the year either. Anyway, for those of you who aren't yet hooked by Jane, keep giving her a chance. One of these days, you'll be so glad you didn't sell her CDs. I'm so glad I hung on to my copy of The Walking (especially since its now been deleted in the U.S.) Adios, Jeff Hanson ======================================================================== Subject: Grinders and Subs Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 12:26:08 -0500 From: lcliffor@bbn.com Mitch reports: >this town as anything but subs, except that there's a restaurant on the north >side called the Chicago Pizza and Oven Grinder Co. Whether an oven grinder=a >grinder=a sub I don't know, inasmuch as I've never eaten there. It's also a >wild card where the oven enters into it, since I've never seen a sub marketed >on raw bread dough. Whether the bread is baked there with or without the cold >cuts inserted is, therefore, a mystery :-). Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but technically, isn't a grinder a sub which is baked in the oven? In other words, the bread is slightly toasted and the contents heated? Laura ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:05:23 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Colford Subject: Re: Grinders and Subs On Fri, 14 Jan 1994 lcliffor@bbn.com wrote: > Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but technically, isn't a grinder > a sub which is baked in the oven? In other words, the bread is slightly > toasted and the contents heated? That had always been my understanding of it. Hmmm. Michael ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 10:16:47 PST From: dixon@physics.berkeley.edu (David Dixon) Subject: Re: Pianosphere Chris, The pianist I mentioned is named S. Eric Scribner. The only way you can get a CD is to write him directly at: S. Eric Scribner c/o KLS Records P.O. Box 7811 Berkeley, CA 94707-0811 or call him at (510) 525-0664. The CD doesn't have the African percussion song on it, unfortunately, but it's got lots of cool "let's see what other sounds we can make with this big black thing". A friend of his plays a kaen on a couple pieces. (A kaen is a Thai instrument, something like a harmonica with organ pipes sticking out of it.) D^2 ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 13:45:43 -0500 (EST) From: consid Subject: Ring around the rosy, revisited If I may resuscitate this thread, I found my copy of "More of the Straight Dope," which deals with the question thusly: "Ring around the rosie, a pocket full of posies/Ashes, ashes/All fall down!" Authorities believe this seemingly innocuous bit of doggerel actually commemorates what grim event? a. the Great Fire of London b. the Black Death c. the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre d. nothing special Answer: d. Permit me to quote from The Annotated Mother Goose: "As recently as November 1961, Mr. James Leasor was writing in his book 'The Plague and the Fire' that this rhyme 'had its origin in [The Great Plague]. Rosy [roses] refers to the rosy rash of plague....the posies were herbs and spices carried to sweeten the air; sneezing....was a common symptom of those close to death.' And 'We've all tumbled down' was in a way exactly what happened. "This is an interesting theory, but 'If you consult the Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes,' you will find, in place of corroboration, the somewhat frosty notation that: 'The invariable sneezing and falling down in modern versions has given would-be origin finders the opportunity to say that the rhyme dates back to the Great Plague.' Actually -- surprising in a rhyme that has become the accompaniment to one of our most popular nursery games -- 'Ring-around-the-rosy' first appeared in print as late as 1881." By means of this triple-barreled quotation we learn that three out of four experts agree: the correct answer is D, the rhyme signifies nothing in particular. The book also has a nifty chapter on spontaneous human combustion. --Sue Trowbridge * * * * * * * * * * consid@access.digex.net * * * * * * * * * * I had on my headphones, along with those eyes That you get when your circumstance is movie-sized * * * * * * * * * * * * * --Liz Phair * * * * * * * * * * * * * ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)