Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #964 ecto, Number 964 Friday, 14 January 1994 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Lisa Herman/Longhouse info origin of "Xtian" Hey Bday! Re: help catching up Article in Philly Inquirer HaPpY Birthday painful unsubscribe Re: Tower Records controversy Re: Benjamin Franklin's kite. Re: a long tangent filled hello ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 0:32:15 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Lisa Herman/Longhouse info A couple+ months ago there was a mini-thread about Lisa Herman and Longhouse. I opened my big mouth and said that I'd heard her sing on an obscure prog rock album, but, me being me, didn't have any information about it. I asked an expert, who asked an expert, and now I finally have the info I should have had before mentioning it in the first place :-). This info comes from Malcolm Humes: > Lisa Herman appears on Peter Blegvad/John Greaves "Kew/Rhone" release > from 1977, based on Flemish proverbs set to music. Perhaps this is > it? I don't have the lp. Rock Record is a great reference for stuff like > this but is out of print in the US right now. I'm thinking she may have > worked with News From Babel (later than my RR edition) or with some > of those related folks (Lindsay Cooper, Sally Potter) from the Henry > Cow offshoots. Details on Kew/Rhone should be in John Relph's Blegvad > discography at ftp.uwp.edu. I like this release - I think it may be on > cd now. John, oh John? You have this info handy? Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 22:33:35 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: origin of "Xtian" "John Relph" : > down", as in "ashes to ashes dust to dust" the standard x-tian burial I keep seeing Xtian and x-tian written in place of Christian. I'm just wondering where that originated. Is it just an abbreviation or does it mean something to write it that way? I can't recall seeing Christians use it but that doesn't necessarily mean anything since it's an important word to them. John, I'm not putting you on the spot, I'm asking anyone who might know. (I know that many crosses were X's and not the traditional t, but I doubt that has much relevance.) AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 0:53:20 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Hey Bday! HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Aaron Hawkins!! (I'm confused...how *is* it spelled?) Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 21:43:04 PST From: dixon@physics.berkeley.edu (David Dixon) Subject: Re: origin of "Xtian" Alex wonders: >I keep seeing Xtian and x-tian written in place of Christian. I'm >just wondering where that originated. I think it comes from the Greek letter "chi", which is the first letter of the Greek for "christ", "Christos". Speaking of which, you know the "fish" symbol you often see on the backs of cars? That symbol was used by early Xtians at a time when they were heavily persecuted, as a secret symbol. The Greek for "fish", "ichthus", is spelled IX(THETA)U(SIGMA), or "Iesus Christos, Theos (something somethingg)" which translates to "Jesus Christ, Son of God" (or something akin to it). Now you know... the REST of the story! Dave "page TWO!" Dixon ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 23:21:51 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: Re: help "Bradley N. Hutchinson" : > Are my posts getting to the list? I keep getting the following > type of mail returns: Yes, they are. :) Those returned mail and undeliverable mail messages happen to all of us I guess. When our post is sent out to someone on the list (Steve Fagg, in your case) whose account, machine, or link has gone down temporarily or permanently then some gateways will send us mail about it. I've been meaning to ask if we can prevent them from being sent to the posters. If the ecto listserv included an "Errors-To: ecto-errors@ns1..." field, like on gaffa, would that help much? (I get gaffa as a newsgroup so I don't know how much it helps there.) AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 01:31:05 EST From: mojzes@monet.vill.edu (brni) Subject: catching up hi there, y'all! its been a long and strenuous time here in brni-land. i heading up to vermont tomorrow...well, actually, today, it seems...i *need* to get away from philadelphia, and from picture framing in general. i'm getting caught up on my reading here. here is a good example of what i'm finding... >Well I think, being in NZ, I may be the first ectophile to be able to wish >everyone a very happy Christmas on the day - 'tis just after midnight... :) > >Have a very happy holiday, all of you... > >Philip > and a happy post-holiday to all, as well... :) --------------- > >You'd have to read up on it to get the real meanings, but >the labels aren't necessarily the meanings of the letters. >For instance, E(xtrovert) - I(ntrovert) is a little >misleading. For Meyers-Briggs purposes, an 'E' is someone >who is energized from without (i.e. others) and an 'I' is >someone who is energized from within (i.e. self). It's >all somewhat interesting. > hmmm. still seems to me that it is entirely possible to be energized from within *and* from without (and that this would actually be the most desirable state). i try to look at things in multiple terms, or in continuums, rather than in terms of binary oppositions (of course, i just used a binary opposition--take that any way you want). >Michael (infp) ------------- philip, basking in the glory of the long tongue of cheom, says: > >Purple flying hippos, and warm furry cozy kittens to all, >Philip ah well, we rip what we sew... (_CHEOMETICS_, p. 23) soon all the unbelievers shall smell the blight and come to understand the One True Way and The Five Promises shall be theirs to wait for, or else they shall remain unbelievers and heretics. may the finite mercy of cheom be with you brni ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 22:27:48 PST From: erik@falcon.kla.com (Erik Johnson) Subject: Re: origin of "Xtian" Dave Dixon declares: |> Alex wonders: |> |> >I keep seeing Xtian and x-tian written in place of Christian. I'm |> >just wondering where that originated. |> |> I think it comes from the Greek letter "chi", which is the first letter |> of the Greek for "christ", "Christos". Probably true. But I suspect that the main way it was popularized was by newspapers trying to fit "Christmas" into headlines & ads, and needing an abbreviation with fewer letters so they could use larger fonts. |> Speaking of which, you know the "fish" symbol you often see on the backs |> of cars? That symbol was used by early Xtians at a time when they were |> heavily persecuted, as a secret symbol. The Greek for "fish", "ichthus", |> is spelled IX(THETA)U(SIGMA), or "Iesus Christos, Theos (something |> somethingg)" which translates to "Jesus Christ, Son of God" (or something |> akin to it). That's interesting - I had picked up somewhere (lord knows where at this point in time - it's been years) that ichthys was an anagram of christos. As I look at what I just typed, I can see that there's apparently an unaccounted-for 'r', but I don't know greek and so I'm not sure if it's still a problem when you use the greek alphabet and spell the words more correctly than I can. The initials of the phrase is probably right, though. Have you seen the Darwin fish yet? Looks like the Christian fish, but has legs, and instead of "Christ" in English or greek inside, it has "Darwin". I saw one on a car months ago, and practically ran the curb from laughing. It's not just for parody either - a fish with legs is a perfect symbol of evolution. I finally found a store that sold them over Christmas break, so my car now proudly proclaims my support for the Theory of Evolution. :-) Erik ____________________________________________________________________________ Erik N. Johnson Don't believe the return address. KLA Instruments Corp. The one and only True Address is: San Jose, CA e_johnso@kla.com. G E/CS d-- -p+ c++(++++) l u+ e- m++(--)* s+/+ !n h f+ g(+) w+ t@ r+@ y+(*) Your name is being called by sacred things That are not addressed nor listened to -- KB ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 2:09:45 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Article in Philly Inquirer This was posted to the Tori list... INFLUENCE OF KATE BUSH IS EVERYWHERE Philadelphia Inquirer (PI) - SUNDAY January 9, 1994 By: Tom Moon, INQUIRER MUSIC CRITIC Edition: FINAL Section: FEATURES ENTERTAINMENT Page: F01 Word Count: 455 "I definitely don't think of myself as being an influence," Kate Bush says with a puzzled smile. "I suppose that's something to be flattered by, but I don't know." The singer's modesty notwithstanding, you can't help but notice that the children of Kate Bush are everywhere. More than any female vocalist/songwriter since Joni Mitchell, Bush has been studied and dissected, her lines and vocal mannerisms carefully copied. She's become the model for a whole flock of introspective, journal-keeping women who strive for more than the everyday guitar-accompanied confessional. Bush's neo-gothic sound and otherworldly imagery was, for years, one of the few alternatives to "girl" pop, so it's inevitable that aspiring artists such as Tori Amos (who acknowledges her debt) would crib from the Bush catalogue. But Amos - whose second album, Under the Pink, arrives in stores on Feb. 1. - has been a bit too zealous in her appropriations. The contemplative piano settings of her enormously successful 1992 debut sound an awful lot like those that made The Kick Inside, Bush's 1978 debut, so arresting. Though Amos chose more earthy themes (and expressed them through numbingly simple lyrics), she relied on Bush's signature orchestral sweeps and unusual backing harmonies. Her scholarship was so exact, it sometimes sounded as though she had copied the scores. Under the Pink continues the borrowing. As she matures as a vocalist, Amos has moved closer to Bush's tortured, writhing phrasing. Unfortunately, her songs offer little justification for their drama: They're average pop-rock that depend on histrionics to hold interest. While Amos is the most overt, she's hardly the only singer to be influenced by Bush's distinctive singing. Bjork, lead singer of Iceland's the Sugarcubes, displays Bush's fiery independence and knack for understatement on Debut, her first effort as a solo artist. Both Jane Siberry and Eleanor McEvoy work to transform confessional narratives into observations on the human condition, the way Bush's best lyrics do. And though she's throatier, Mary Fahl of October Project strives for exaggeratedly crisp diction and a theatrical sense of distance, qualities that Bush, virtually alone among pop singers, cultivates. Bush's compositions have an atmospheric, airy quality that have led some to categorize her as new age. It's not an accurate tag, but Bush's ethereal leanings - evident on The Kick Inside, The Dreaming (1982) and The Sensual World (1989) - have inspired the reverb-happy Happy Rhodes, Clannad's Maire Brennan and others to create meditative singer-songwriter music gentle enough to be played in the dentist's office. CAPTION: PHOTO PHOTO (4) 1. Jane Siberry also observes the human condition. 2. The up-and-coming Tori Amos acknowledges her debt. 3. Bjork of Iceland displays Bush's fiery independence. 4. Happy Rhodes is inspired by Bush's ethereal leanings. Copyright Philadelphia Newspapers Inc. 1994 *********************************************************************** My own opinion is that this guy is a dickhead. If he thinks "The Dreaming" is ethereal, then his other "opinions" are suspect, no matter how much he likes Kate. I think he likes to pretend that he knows some "names" and throws them around without knowing much of what he's talking about. Tori has "numbingly simple" lyrics? Hardly. "Reverb-happy" Happy Rhodes? Pfft! People like this compare with abandon, one of those folks who'd bring up Kate when talking about *any* female singer unless they sounded like Diamanda Galas, Loretta Lynn or Lydia Lunch. Vickie -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Vickie Mapes "Fight for your right "My ears are lucky to hear vickie@pilot.njin.net to have a monster" TA these glorious songs" HR _________ "Imagination sets in, then |_ _ | _ The Happy Rhodes mailing list all the voices begin" KB |__|_ ||_| ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ======================================================================== From: rhogan@chaph.usc.edu (Ron Hogan) Subject: Re: Article in Philly Inquirer Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 23:38:48 -0800 (PST) personally, i think you're being kind by calling the author of that tripe a dickhead. obviously, any white woman who sings by herself has to be influenced by Kate Bush according to that putz. Ron ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 23:37:53 -0800 (PST) From: Emily Breed Subject: Re: Article in Philly Inquirer On Thu, 13 Jan 1994, Vickie wrote: > My own opinion is that this guy is a dickhead. If he thinks "The Dreaming" > is ethereal, then his other "opinions" are suspect, no matter how much > he likes Kate. I think he likes to pretend that he knows some "names" > and throws them around without knowing much of what he's talking about. > Tori has "numbingly simple" lyrics? Hardly. "Reverb-happy" Happy Rhodes? > Pfft! People like this compare with abandon, one of those folks who'd > bring up Kate when talking about *any* female singer unless they sounded > like Diamanda Galas, Loretta Lynn or Lydia Lunch. Hear, hear. To listen to some people, there's only room for one female singer in the music world, and anyone else who comes later is either stealing from the first one, or "hasn't learned anything from" her. Pah. -- Emily ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 01:32:48 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: Re: origin of "Xtian" Erik Johnson suspects: > Dave Dixon declares: > |> Alex wonders: > |> > |> >I keep seeing Xtian and x-tian written in place of Christian. I'm > |> >just wondering where that originated. > |> > |> I think it comes from the Greek letter "chi", which is the first letter > |> of the Greek for "christ", "Christos". > > Probably true. But I suspect that the main way it was popularized was by > newspapers trying to fit "Christmas" into headlines & ads, and needing an > abbreviation with fewer letters so they could use larger fonts. Interesting, and the common use of Xmas does sound like a plausible explanation for why Xtian is used sometimes now. > |> of cars? That symbol was used by early Xtians at a time when they were > |> heavily persecuted, as a secret symbol. The Greek for "fish", "ichthus", > |> is spelled IX(THETA)U(SIGMA), or "Iesus Christos, Theos (something > |> somethingg)" which translates to "Jesus Christ, Son of God" (or something > |> akin to it). > > That's interesting - I had picked up somewhere (lord knows where at this > point in time - it's been years) that ichthys was an anagram of christos. I think the famous quote from Matthew 4:19 adds a lot to the symbolism: "And he said to them, `Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.'" Christ says this to two disciples who were fishermen. They were now to be fishers of believers in Christ: the fish. > Have you seen the Darwin fish yet? Looks like the Christian fish, but has > legs, and instead of "Christ" in English or greek inside, it has "Darwin". Hahaha :) AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 08:56:16 +0000 From: Terry Partis Subject: HaPpY Birthday Here's whishing A VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Troy J Shadbolt on January 14th. Have a great day Troy. Peace Terry === Only in your eyes lies your soul ========================= Happy Rhodes === _ __ Jolly Hockeysticks _ __ / `-' ( ,,, / `-' ( ,,, | I I ||||||[:::] Terry (Tel Boy) Partis | I I ||||||[:::] \_.-._( ''' (tgp@ukc.ac.uk) \_.-._( ''' With a smile and a song - I'm HaPpy Let me sleep awhile and dream of Avalon and the Beltane fires.................. ............................................our souls entwined for all eternity ======================================================================== From: snpf@ugcs.caltech.edu (The Duchess Of York) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 01:54:32 -0800 Subject: painful unsubscribe I am uncertain of where my net access will be for the next few months, so please *sniff* take me off the ecto mailing list. AUGUGUGHHHHHH no no no!!!! *sigh* I'll come back when I can. I'll miss you all. people in san fran area, please remember my node snpf@ugcs.caltech.edu and lets have an ecto party! -seanympf ======================================================================== From: snpf@ugcs.caltech.edu (The Duchess Of York) Subject: Re: Tower Records controversy Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 03:20:59 -0800 (PST) In the back of our store, on the employee board, there is a memo denying the allegations that the security guard was told to spy on management. If it isn't true, what, besides money, would motivate the security guard to file this suit? -seanympf ======================================================================== From: snpf@ugcs.caltech.edu (The Duchess Of York) Subject: Re: Benjamin Franklin's kite. Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 03:23:30 -0800 (PST) dedicated to jeffy? :) -seanympf ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 7:05:39 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: a long tangent filled hello I've been a slug in keeping up, though I don't look like Holly or even play her on TV. (Holly, welcomeback*hug*wemissedyoudon'tgo away again*hug*) Welcome back to KevinH and Terry Partis! Hellays & hugs to new Ectophiles & delurkers everywhere, even if you're not upside down. :-( byes to those who are going to brave an Ectoless world. It's cold out there. (Well, it's not cold in Sydney...yikes!) Chris Farmer HiHos: > HiHo all -- HiHo to you Chris! (Do you mind nicknames?) Welcome to Ecto! > yep, its another in the nearly endless string of delurkers. not sure how > sane this will be - i forgot to unsuscribe over the three week xmas break - > i came back and was greeted with 571 messages! YIKES. there's a lesson to > be learnt in there somewheres... (unlike some wiser souls -Courtney-, i > read them all, and being absurdly/anally thourough, didn't want to post > until after reading them all). I agree with woj(?)...common sense! :-) > been around for 2 months or so. i too echo my astonishment at the > amazing support and atmosphere in this list. it is certainly not what i > was expecting at all (but in a positive way though!). i expected only the > musical discussions, which are here in abundance, but certainly not the > various interesting digressions on all the recent topics. I know...isn't it wonderful? I love Ecto... > my biggest regret > is not having the time to compose a halfway intelligent post/comment to > insert on the topics as they go by. I know how it is. Sometimes I want to reply to *everything* and it's impossible, so sometimes I end up not responding to anything. I read everything though, and love every minute of it. > i don't have any idea how you all do > it and still maintain some semblence of a normal life (or do you? :) ). Not me :-) > other big problem is now that i've found all these recommendations by > people of (obviously) superb taste :), how do i stretch my budget to > actually BUY all theses cds..... It's a problem, yeah. I'm not working at the moment, so I haven't gotten anything in a while. There are lots of things from last year I still have to get (and people that I left off from my year end list, such as the Cowboy Junkies, Belly, Liz Phair & others I just forgot) but when I get back to work I'm going to start scouring the used record stores for things I'm way behind on getting. We will buy Tori's album the day it comes out though. Some things are high priority and worth getting brand new and at full price. > Two questions: > - Vickie, where did you hear of Penelope Houston???!! thought she > had never been heard of outside the bay area (although my friends and i are > pretty diligently trying to convert the rest of the world :) ). She is one > of my favorite acts, having seen her gobs when i was an undergraduate up at > Davis and having all her tapes/cds. I bought the LP of Birdboys when it first came out, but I can't for the life of me remember how I first heard of her. It was before we were on the net. It's possible I just liked the cover, and I have been known to buy things just because they look interesting. I also used to work at a One-Stop (a distributor that stocks CDs, cassettes & LPs...s'where smaller record stores usually get their stock. Bigger record stores usually have their own national warehouses) and while I worked there I got a lot of promos. I might have first heard it there, but I remember actually buying it, so it was one promo I didn't get to take home. Anyway, I re-bought it on CD (full price too! :-)) and saw her in concert last year, where I bought "The Whole World" and the 2 cassettes, the live one and "500 Miles" but I don't have the videos or the singles. I can e-mail you what I wrote back then, if you want. I'll have to get ahold of the new one, I'm looking forward to hearing it. > (as an amusing tangent - i'd always > read your alias as WretchAway, before getting HR I. conjured up images of > this woman with a spray can furiously trying to rid herself of all those > nasty, pestering wretchs buzzing around her head. :) well, at least i > thought it was amusing.) :-) :-) :-) "...they're hovering at my head" (see, Happy wrote about it!) > Obligatory (?) top eight: Nice list...I'm still saving all these lists so thanks for including it. > almost done... > > in regards to the the ally ally oxenfree, i grew up in a small town > near philadelphia and while we didn't use that phrase (using something a > little simpler, like "Jen's it, come out"), we did know its meaning. we > were all easterners, no midwest "contamination" :). so its not that > regional (where'd Happy grow up anyways?). and we called it soda (although > all our relatives in West Virginia called it pop). Happy was born in Poughkeepsie, NY, but I believe she grew up in the Schenectady, NY area. I'd have to check ages & dates with her. I don't believe she's ever lived outside New York state. (You said "Jen's it, come out"? We have a Jens on Ecto-my hero-and he'll be pleased to know there were so many Jens in your neighborhood!) > that's it - i'm done, and sending this off before more ecto letters come in > hoping to be talking to you all more regularly -- Yeah! Welcome again to Ecto! Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jan 94 7:10:16 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: painful unsubscribe Sea Nympf is swimming away: > I am uncertain of where my net access will be for the next few months, > so please *sniff* take me off the ecto mailing list. > > AUGUGUGHHHHHH no no no!!!! :-( :-( :-( > *sigh* > > I'll come back when I can. > I'll miss you all. I'll miss you too, and Alan Moorse. Please come back soon if you can, both of you. > people in san fran area, please remember my node snpf@ugcs.caltech.edu > and lets have an ecto party! Yay! Have fun! *HUG* Vickie ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)