23-Jan-92 23:07:57-GMT,27416;000000000001 Received: from athos.rutgers.edu by aramis.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.4/3.08) id AA19350; Thu, 23 Jan 92 17:32:36 EST Received: by athos.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.4/3.08) id AA02112; Thu, 23 Jan 92 17:32:30 EST Date: Thu, 23 Jan 92 17:32:30 EST Message-Id: <9201232232.AA02112@athos.rutgers.edu> Errors-To: owner-ecto@athos.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@athos.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@athos.rutgers.edu From: ecto@athos.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@athos.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #126 ecto, Number 126 Thursday, 23 January 1992 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Cool day to be born on! Ecto Side 2 Here comes my soul again... Not much stuff (tm) Martin receives HGP tape! Re: Kits & Bibbles for Alan ======================================================================== From: vickie@chinet.chi.il.us (Vickie Ann Mapes) Subject: Cool day to be born on! Date: Thu, 23 Jan 92 0:10:41 CST Check it out! Something 'bout April 10! Klaus Kluge Sun April 10 1960 Widder Steve VanDevender Sun April 10 1966 Racer Art Liestman Fri April 10 1953 Repeat Stephen Golden April 10 1971 Jokey !!! Kiri, the Skinner Box album I have is self-titled, and includes the songs Filed Under R, Slide of Glass, At the Portal, Drowning Street and a few others. I haven't listened to it for ages so I'll have to give it a whirl on the turntable. I can't even remember what it sounds like to try and describe it for Ectophiles. (btw, this is a follow-up for an e-mail so noone missed any posts concerning SB) Oh, and HNiA are from Detroit, not Chicago. Guess who I got an e-mail from? The person who posted in soc.women that I included in an earlier post. He (she?) wanted more information about Happy and wanted to get a specific post of mine, the one where I talked about the differences between Happy, Kate and Jane. What a coincidence! I'll be back! Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Jan 92 01:03:22 -0500 From: Nimue - Gwragedd Annwn Subject: Ecto Side 2 Side B Ecto Review: this is it folks...im not doing Warpaint...Why? I don't know. :) ---Ecto--- This song has one of the grooviest bass lines I know. Being a precocious sometimes artsy fartsy type I can just imagine the video to this as black billowing curtains with horrific images bouncing across...or wait...the campy version with black billowing curtains and Ectophiles in sheets bobbing around in some sort of Ectoplasmic dance with little style or grace, but with infinite tackiness and Happyness. This is one of those songs that make you want to simultaneously dance and sit in a candle laden aura and try to get Houdini to say 'Rosabel Believe.' Happy has done it again, imagining the thoughts of some sort of Ectoplasmic entity, but then it's also a kind of plea for us mortals to remember the existence of paranormal entities...do you believe in ghosts?? Honestly im not sure if I do. My rational scientific brain says no, but I have seen a lot of weird things that just can't or haven't been explained away by science. Are her brains asunder? quite possibly but I love that line, and I love the song. ---I Cannot Go On--- This is another one of those Happy songs that instantaneously lights up my face in delight. Her vocal wanderings in this song make my heart leap up in some sort of Happy trance. I love this song... because it is brilliant musically, and because its lyrics echo my feelings exactly. It's always a struggle for me to keep dreams alive under seemingly impossible conditions. Unless you are a rambo(ette) of self-assuredness and/or a super(wo)man of motivation this song should have some meaning to most of us. I hope Happy continues choosing to live with her hopes and her dreams...look what it's given those of us who have embraced some of them. ---Ode--- I enjoy this song, but there are some parts that I have a real problem with...and yes while she is correct in saying them it's damn hard to agree with them when you are in the throes of such emotions. "Never cry for the rain" Well I never do, because I love rain...maybe im one of those infinitely bizarre persons.. which I admit I am sometimes...but give me a blustry rainy cold day with the wind whipping around and I will be in rare form. It must be some sort of cloudbusting instinct. "Never cry because you feel unloved..that's what your arms are for to wrap them around yourself" Ah well I agree and disagree...im sorry but my arms just don't cut the mustard even 50% of the time..nothing beats a hug! "Never cry because you're lonely...your love will always be around the bend" I have a real problem with this, not because it isn't true, but because it just doesn't work for me to be confident in my love, or of love in others (all the time). And again nothing beats a confident hug. "Never cry because you think you can't make it" I agree. We've made it this far, we can make it all the way....dreamwise, hopewise, etc. "Never cry because you're scared..the only thing that you can harm you is your fear." Yes, I learned this a long time ago, fear is so irrational at times...i've almost learned to laugh at some fear, but then I still have some irrational fears...but then again I don't cry about them either. "And don't ask why, don't ask why you hurt so much..it's just a process of healing" I have asked myself just this question far to many times. While it might be a process of healing, I for one am emotionally exhausted from dealing with pain..especially now. ---Don't Want To Hear It--- Another song that I positively adore. It's another one of those songs that makes you sit up, take notice, and leaves you on the edge of your seat in delight. This song has stunning vocals as well. I could seriously cry in wonder and delight when I hear this song - the emotions carried grab your heart and wrench it out right to the end. It's really interesting how Happy makes such potentially angry lyrics, but the music is totally opposite in feeling. For me this song is a little difficult to grapple with because I tend to "want to hear it" rather than not wanting to hear it. It's possible I sometimes care too much about certain things to the exclusion of dealing with self. Im not a doctor, i wasnt such a happy kid, and am not all that happy at present, but if someone comes "bleeding on my floor" they will have someone whose attention will be directed on the problem. I guess "i care very much" and I do want to hear it, unless you're being totally stupid...Ahem. *cough* ---Poetic Justice--- Another groovy bass line. Sheesh groovy and Happy just don't seem to fit together. But, the bass line is groovy and well... This song has extremely cynical lyrics...however there is also a subtle form of humor evident. Every time I hear this song I have to think of those poems that are flowery, overromanticized nonsense. I have to agree with Happy here "oh get to the point you sappy wimps." It's as if she is telling these "poets" to take a walk in the real world..."get your head out of the cotton clouds" (cotton clouds..come Happy...overromanticized vision) Oh my hyacinth of exorbitant beauty your voice is like a rainbow your hair is a cobweb of ashen silk but my gracious lotus flower your feet smell like spoiled milk. kAh 23.1.92 Hahahahahaha :) How's that for a reality check. Oh "my ears have parasites" just (GO AWAY). ---To Be E. Mortal--- Oh to be....Die to be....Want to be...Live to be To be E. Mortal Since it isn't immortal, who or what is E. Here are some of my guesses. Elvis...Mortal Earth...Mortal Einstein....Mortal East....Mortal Ectoplasm...Mortal English...Mortal Fuzzy Blue Ectophile...Mortal Engineer...Mortal Electron...Mortal Earl....Mortal any of the following famous people Eads, Eagels, Eaker, Eakins, Eames, Earhart, Earle, Early, Earp, Eastman, Eaton, Eban, Ebert, Eberth, Eccles, Echegarry y Elzaguirre, Echeverria Alvarez, Eck, Eckhart, Eddington, Eddy, Ehrenburg, Eisenhower, Eleanor, Elizabeth, Elijah, Ellis, Ely, Elytis, Endecott, Epaminondas, Epictetus, Erasmus, Eratosthenes, Erigena, Erlanger, Erzberger, Esaki, Eshkol, Este, Eve, Evelyn, Ezra, Ewald...... others??? or does she just want to live forever....I know I would....well maybe not forever, but at least 500 years or so.... or maybe, I know it may sound weird...but there is a possibility that someone is actually named E. Mortal. The chance that Happy would want to be etc. E. Mortal is a very silly concept, and one that I dismiss with very easily.... So what does E. Mortal stand for?? or is e. mortal everything! kIrI "When pain no longer rips you might see me hargieka@craft.camp.clarkson.edu like a flickering flame iamecto@chinet.chi.il.us waving to you "Experience the other side" thru the crack in the wall" L.L. ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Jan 92 13:46 GMT From: Merow!! VIckie..you deserve 100 lashes witha wet noodle for thingking such bad thoughts of yourself!!! you are one of the most wonderful people i know and i am proud that i have met you!!!!!! i cant wait to come back and visit again and take in some of your wisdom!!! you have really changed my life in subtle ways !!! for exmple..you got Kiri interested in Happy..thus i was indoctrinated..without Happy..i wouldnt have everyone here!! and everyone here means so much to me!!! is that example enough for you?? and will you STOP having a negative self image??? geez!!! we all love our Ecto mom!!!!!have i made my point??? Chris and you are such wonderful people!!!! i cant imagine a world without the infamous "C&V"!!! anyway..dont have much else to say..except listen to TOri Amos... i know you guys are sick of me saying that but she is really good!! on my *4* mile walk today i really listened closely..ther is one song called "Happy Phantom" that would REALLY blend with this group!! in fact..that is my selection for the HGP for her birthday!!!!! boy..that was easy this time!! anxiously awaiting my HGP as soon as Kiri sends my tapes to Vickie and as soon s Vickie sends it on..then ANOTEHR two weeks to wait for the mail.. oh well..life could be worse!! i could be sharing a room with someone who snores!!!! (dont ask where that came from!!!)) =) lucky lucky lucky you guys...please do send a tape of the concert to us unfortunates here in Europe..ok?? we are planning our own party so that would make a lovely addition to it!!!! cant wait to meet you Klaus and Claudia!! CHip and wife..cant wait!!! well..thats all for merow.. Court! ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Jan 92 06:46 CST From: vickie@chinet.chi.il.us (Vickie Ann Mapes) Subject: Here comes my soul again... Vickie here. Hmmm, this one's a toughie. This is another baring-of-the- soul post, very personal. There's nothing about Happy in here. Goddess knows why I said this, 'cause I sure don't: > I'm so scared about people meeting me, but it's a silly thing to be > scared of and I'm really not going to let it bother me. If people > (Happy, Kevin & Ectophiles) like me now, what I look like isn't going > to change that. I know that, but still, I *really* wish I looked like > Jessica or Meredith, then I wouldn't have to be scared at all. First, thanks to *everybody* who wrote something to boost me up. I'm very touched by all the wonderful responses, both on Ecto and via e-mail. I feel much better about facing you all now and I can honestly say that I'm not scared in any way, shape or form. Even what I just said ("facing you all now") might give an impression that there are lingering doubts, but there aren't, none at all. I am proud of all that I've done, and I know that you all like me. What I said wasn't a bid for sympathy, it wasn't written to fish for compliments and it wasn't intended to give the impression that I really hate myself and *always* put myself down. I do tend to put myself down, and I try to stop myself, but I also realize my faults and tend to always want to apoligise for them. A friend once told me "you know, you really piss me off because you're all the time saying 'I'm sorry' or 'sorry' and it's annoying" and he was right. I hadn't ever thought about it, but once he said that, I would catch myself saying it all the time. After that I really tried to be aware and stop myself before it came out, but habits are hard to break and I still do it occasionally. Tonight I was dubbing the HGP for Angelos and I heard myself saying it after playing the Steeleye Span song. I tried to think of why I said it and I remembered that I screwed up the beginning of the song. Still, by the time the song ended, it's doubtful that anyone would remember (or care) that the beginning was weird, so my "sorry" really had no meaning. I just felt compelled to say it and I did, without even realizing it. Anyway, this all goes back to my childhood as a "Carrie" which I've posted about before and won't go into again. Basically all my life I've had a terrible self-image and I spent a lot of time just apologising for existing. It's not too much of a problem anymore and I generally like myself. Though there are lots of things that could be worked on, years ago I came to the conclusion that nobody is perfect. I don't have to be perfect, and I also don't have to apoligise all the time because I'm not. My self-image improved dramatically when I met Chris and he fell in love with me. It didn't ever matter to him what I looked like and that really helped me get a grip. Maybe I should explain what my "problem" is. I'm overweight, a lot actually. Oh hell, I'm fat. I always have been, and it's very probable that I always will be. I'm one of those people who have been on every single diet imaginable and have never seemed to get anywhere near what I "should" weigh. I have no excuses, I just really love food. (Strangely enough, I hate to cook :-) so Chris does most of it.) My favorite hobbies and nearly all my jobs have always been indoor, sit-down types that mean I never burn off any calories. Result? Well, if I were a Blues singer, I'd be called Big Mama Mapes (too bad I can't carry a tune, I'd have it made!) I don't know what it's like in other countries, but in America there is a general predjudice against fat people. I've run into it all my life and I'm very sensitive to it. Cynthia Rosas and I have been having an e-mail exchange about this very subject. She claims to be a "feminist" but in a post to gaffa, she called Katarina Witt "fat-assed" and I flamed her via e-mail. Believe it or not, the exchange since has been fairly friendly. Not that we're friends or anything, but she actually thanked me for bringing it up. She didn't want anyone to think that she subscribed to the "thin is in, anorexia's the ticket" way of thinking. I believe that she doesn't really think like that. I know now that it was just Cynthia being rude, as usual. Still, the casual way she said "fat-assed" really bothered me, because it was directed at someone who is in fine psysical shape. It bothers me in gaffa when someone makes a remark about Kate's weight, even though she's probably never weighed over 120 pounds in her life! This type of thing is so common. Look how Carnie Wilson is treated. In every single photo or video you see of Wilson-Phillips, they seem to spend a lot of time and trouble *hiding* Carnie. Ohh, I'd better not get started on that subject, it's a definite sore spot with me. I once said that if Carnie were black, she wouldn't have any problems and someone remarked that it seemed to be a racist statement. All I meant was that black people don't seem to be as pre-occupied with weight as much as whites do. I think that's healthy. After Chris and I met, I was kind of suprised that he didn't care what I looked like. I've had relationships before where the guy really liked my personality, but then would drop hints that *I'd* (read: he'd) be much happier if I were thin. Hmmm. If the weight didn't come off, that usually meant the end of the relationship. With Chris it was different and I found out why. When he was a child, his parents took him and the rest of the family to a nudist colony. They spent years going to one and Chris says that it taught him from a young age that what's on the outside doesn't matter at all. I personally have never been to a nudist colony, but just from knowing Chris, it seems to be one of the healthiest "attitude-forming" places in the universe. So, once Chris & I got together, my self-image improved 100%. I don't *feel* fat, and I don't *act* fat. In my mind I weigh 110 pounds. I don't even see it when I look in the mirror. The only times I ever realize "hey, I'm fat, there's no getting around it" is when a) I'm shopping for clothes, b) I see a photograph of myself and c) when I'm going to meet people who have never seen me before. a I can handle, because I'm not a clothes-horse and wouldn't be even if I were thin. b I can handle by trying to avoid photographs whenever possible, but c always gives me ulcers until the meeting has taken place and I feel comfortable. This brings me to why I said what I said in my post. I guess I had a moment's "fraidy-cat" reflex. I shouldn't have written it, and I kind of regretted it after it was sent. I feel I can be honest on Ecto and it just came out. I tend to feel that the wonderful "Vickie" *should be* pretty and willowy and vivacious and god knows what all. I guess I said it as a way of "preparing" people to not expect a fantasy "Vickie" and get ready for the "real-life" Vickie. The fantasy "Vickie" is only in my head, and so maybe I was trying to prepare myself a little too. I'm not being very articulate about all this, but I hope the gist is getting out through the cracks. It was entirely unintentional if I gave the impression that I thought Ectophiles, or Happy & Kevin, wouldn't like me once they saw me. My wording could have been a bit better, more humorous and flip. I know you people aren't shallow and I know you wouldn't judge me, especially after all this time, based on something as silly as as my weight. I won't mention it again because I won't even be thinking about it. So, Philly, here I come, and everybody better be prepared for a great big hug from Big Mama EctoMa!!! btw, Happy says she's not really a "hugger" but she hasn't met me yet! I *am*! Vickie vickie@chinet.chi.il.us _________ |_ _ | _ Fuzzy Blue Wonderland "We're waking up |__|_ ||_| "There is a road straight yes it's good" to my heart" ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Jan 92 08:22:19 MST From: dbx@olympic.atmos.colostate.edu (Doug Burks) Subject: Not much stuff (tm) Greetings, Well, another birthday slipped my attention. It's a late "Have a warm fuzzy blue Happy Happy Birthday", Terry, but no less well meant. Bob Brown noted: [Possible places to meet]. Or...we have a large bar near the venue that has lotsa stuff on the menu. If you do meet at a bar, you'd have a Happy happy hour, I'm sure. :) Starting to consider a nice trip to Albany and Philadelphia .... Doug Burks _O_ dbx@olympic.atmos.colostate.edu |< She really is!! ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1992 2:34:16 +0800 (SST) From: N_HAYS@fennel.cc.uwa.oz.au Subject: Martin receives HGP tape! Yeeeehaaalawackaroonies! Stone cold beans : I got my HGP tapes today! It's great, great, great. I've only listened to it two or three times tonight, so I can't really make an informed review yet - but here are some random first impressions, mostly on the messages: a) It really improves reading the digests, 'cause now I can read the posts from you people mentally using your voices, so to speak. :-) b) Geez you people have funny accents! :-) :-) :-) c) The music is all interesting... and there are all sorts of strange correlations running through the selections... i) A fair bit of the music sounds like Happy. ii) Three songs at least mention insanity. iii) I chuckled a great deal throughout... it IS a Happy tape, it IS! iv) Not a single person included an M.C. Hammer song. d) It was ultra wierd to hear Vickie audibly enunciating all these ecto words and phrases I've read for months but never heard, like HGP and "Jeff-with-the-long-black-hair" and indeed all your names. e) Some of you sounded pretty much like I imagined, like Mitch for instance, whereas with some of you I was WAY off base, like kIrI (Kirstie? Who's Kirstie?? :-). BTW, kIrI, I'm really glad you included the song you did, I've been trying to find it for ages, I didn't know who it was by or what it was called. Jessica, how does your speaking voice compare with your singing voice? f) I wish I'd had better recording equipment...the 1 square mm built-in microphone really did not cut it in the end, sorry about that. g) Jorn sounds EXACTLY like my thesis advisor. Scary stuff !!! Even down to the tendency to "do vickies". :-) I think ecto-congratulations all round are in order, for a project well done. Especially to Vickie of course - great job. P.S. Vickie, Katie really appreciated you including her name in the packing. Thanks. More on the music later... Peace and footahs throughout. (if I may just borrow one, Greg :-) Martin ,---------------------------+----------------------------. _ . | Feel the searing heat of | Martin Dougiamas. | ~ _r' Ll\ ~ | heightened conciousness. | n_hays@fennel.cc.uwa.oz.au | | \ ~ | Feel the yearning for | University of | ~ \ ._ / ~ | peace and happiness. | Western Australia | -->X~ `-' ~ `======== * Happy Rhodes * =+============================' V ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Jan 92 10:31:07 PST From: "John M. Relph" Subject: Re: Kits & Bibbles >GREAT NEWS-Kevin had just got back from the bank and they agreed to >loan the money necessary for T-shirts to be sold in Philly *and* (Klaus, >you asked about this) via mail order through AG. I'll keep up on when >they are done and ready to be ordered. Vickie, Great news indeed! Please DO keep us informed about the forthcoming teeshirts. I need one. > The bank is also lending the money >TO GET THE 1st4 ON CD!!! > There will be 1000 of each CD made and they *have* to >sell 250 sets (all 4) to cover the basic expenses and keep the bank >happy. I told him I didn't think that would be a problem, they would >probably do that within the first few months after release. I'll buy them. That's two sets gone for sure (right, Vickie?). Gee, can we pre-order? Maybe AG could use the money in the meantime. Of course, second quarter 1992 is some time from now. > They'll >cost the same as the Warpaint CD but should all have bonus tracks, which >makes them a bigger bargain. Lyrics should be included in the CD booklet, >plus extra Happy artwork (that's up in the air though, they haven't >finished working on them-all work there has stopped to concentrate on >the Philly show) and it's "unlikely" that the covers of I & II will have >the same artwork as the cassettes, though those paintings will be inside >the CD booklet. I hope that Happy finds the time to choose or make some additional artwork. Then we could have a little Happy Gallery. When is happy going to start selling prints through AG? That might be nice... BTW, whatever happened to the Happy cover tape? Now that I've got a working four-track recorder perhaps I could contribute something. Hmm, where am I going to get a nice drum machine and digital reverb unit? (Drukman, you busy?) -- John ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Jan 92 13:39:28 -0500 From: gb10@gte.com (Gregory Bossert) Subject: for Alan sorry for using ecto-space (yeah, like i haven't wasted enough of it babbling in recent weeks ;), but i'm not sure where Alan is now... Alan inquires: > Also, to angelos, claudia and greg: I sent you all an e-mail, > but I don't know if you got it. Did you end up meeting in harvard square > anyway? How was it? Sorry I couldn't make it. Myt schedule during this > holiday is a bit crazy. yup, got together for dinner and wackiness... fear not, this will happen again! anyone else in the area who would like to notified before the next such event, let me know! caveat: these things tend to be pretty spontaneous!! footootles! -greg -- gb10@gte.com -- "come here..." -- HR ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Jan 92 14:03:27 -0500 From: gb10@gte.com (Gregory Bossert) Subject: Re: Ecto Side 2 kIrI sAyS (re Ode): > "And don't ask why, don't ask why you hurt so much..it's just a > process of healing" I have asked myself just this question far to many > times. While it might be a process of healing, I for one am > emotionally exhausted from dealing with pain..especially now. ah, but the full line is: And don't ask why you must hurt so much (don't ask why, don't ask why you hurt so much) It's just a process of healing Remember.. and Happy gives a bit of a cynical edge to "remember..." in fact, it is just that moment that makes the song so wonderful to me: it gives me the impression that that line (and by association each of the verses) is advice that the singer and the person being sung to have heard and know is true, but may not truly feel.... as kIrI says: > Ah well I agree and disagree...im sorry but my arms just don't cut > the mustard even 50% of the time..nothing beats a hug! it's hard to defend from the text, but hearing the song, i get the impression that Happy herself agrees and disagrees. but when a hug just isn't an option, well, singing along to "Ode" helps me... footah! -greg -- gb10@gte.com -- "you've made it this far/that's better than most" -- HR ======================================================================== To join ecto, please send electronic mail to the following address: ecto-request@athos.rutgers.edu To have your thoughts included in the next issue, send mail to: ecto@athos.rutgers.edu To subscribe to "Ecto", the printed fanzine, send $8 to: Ecto PO Box 11291 New Brunswick, NJ 08906 Ecto is issued 8 times/year, and will include photos and as much material from non-net members as we can get! Donations above the subscription cost are welcomed - all money goes to bringing you better issues! Your "humble pseudo-moderator" -- jessica (jessica@athos.rutgers.edu)