Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #1019 ecto, Number 1019 Monday, 21 February 1994 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: latest ectofile Re: Yours (Truly) in Phobos Yes, we know our time zones Sinead on Letterman Re: Greetings from Vickie Re: Gov't into Email Clipper Chip (was Govt' into Email) Today's your birthday friend.... Re: Yours (Truly) in Phobos: THE SCREAM Happy Byrphdaes I found Happy! I am a disciple (-: March Spin: Kate interview & more! ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Feb 94 21:43:12 -0600 From: vnozick@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Valerie Nozick) Subject: Re: latest ectofile Okay, I'm finally getting around to updating my ectofile listing. Email: vnozick@merle.acns.nwu.edu Address: 850 N. Lake Shore Dr., Apt. #1531 Phone: (312) 482-2535 Birthday: March 25, 1971 (This at least hasn't changed! ;) And to think that that was relatively painless! ==> valerie ============================================================================== Valerie Nozick vnozick@merle.acns.nwu.edu "Basically we're really a bunch of rock 'n' roll cliches who just wanna get drunk and have a good time." -- John Taylor of Duran Duran (don't you just love when the old quotes come back to haunt you?) "Just being alive, it can really hurt. And these moments given are a gift from time." -- Kate Bush ============================================================================ == ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Feb 94 21:53:42 -0600 From: vnozick@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Valerie Nozick) Subject: Re: Yours (Truly) in Phobos Mark Susskind said: >In reading the ecto digests, I often see complaints that one song/album or >another is 'overproduced'. What exactly does that mean? If it means that >there are many layers of orchestration (instrumentation), I am not always >offended. I often like the extra accompaniment. As long as I can still >listen to the melody, it's all fine with me. Ever listened to an acoustic version of one of your favorite songs, and realized that the song is better that way? (Feed the Fire comes to mind) Then you start to wonder if one layer of instruments could be taken off the top, and eventually you get frustrated with liking the acoustic version better, and so you randomly proclaim the original to be 'overproduced.' Eventually, this disease progresses to the point where any song with lots of instruments is overproduced, and you start criticizing songs by really great artists just for the hell of it. :-) Actually, I must admit I have no music training, and am completely tone deaf (as anyone who has heard me sing will quickly agree to!). So most of the time I have no deeper reaction to a song's instrumentation than 'Wow, that's a great song!' But some songs do seem overdone. They just have too much in them, so that you lose the basic rhythm or feel of the song. I wish I could explain it further, but I don't quite understand it, and definitely don't have the musical knowledge to explain it. Anyone care to take a stab? > >The one portrait that seems to most symbolize Happy's lyrics, _The Scream_, >was stolen from a museum last week. I haven't heard or read if it had been >recovered yet. > Last I read, some radical anti-choice activist in Norway was hinting that he had taken it and would release it if Norwegian television would air his commercial. Personally, the theft of 'The Scream' was very depressing. It is such an important piece of art, and so recognizable to so many people, that it hurts to think about it being stolen and hanging in some rich asshole's house where no one can see it. I almost prefer to think that the above story is really true, that it may soon be returned to a museum. This doesn't mean I condone holding art hostage, though! >Since I started buying CDs (December 1989), I am rapidly approaching 450 >units. I can't do them justice in listening to them due to time problems. > I think you've gotten the ecto-virus! It's a pesky little bug, isn't it? :-) ============================================================================== Valerie Nozick vnozick@merle.acns.nwu.edu "Basically we're really a bunch of rock 'n' roll cliches who just wanna get drunk and have a good time." -- John Taylor of Duran Duran (don't you just love when the old quotes come back to haunt you?) "Just being alive, it can really hurt. And these moments given are a gift from time." -- Kate Bush ============================================================================ == ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 23:18:26 -0500 (EST) From: Suspended In Duct Tape Subject: Yes, we know our time zones Hi! To all who are thinking of joining Sarah on the Nettwerk chat tomorrow (sunday): 5 PM Pacific is 8 PM Eastern, ***not*** 2 PM as I so stupidly thought before!!! The Pacific time zone is three hours behind the Eastern. Let's memorize this. :} Hope this helps people not in the Pacific time zone to figure this out... +==========================================================================+ |Meredith Tarr meth@delphi.com| +==========================================================================+ |"When I was young, my grandmother would write me letters about this little| |girl named Annie, and what Annie would do to be a very good girl. Well you| |know, I just wanted to fucking grenade Annie." - Tori Amos | +==========================================================================+ ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Feb 94 22:55:06 PST From: kyrlidis@templeton.cchem.berkeley.edu (Angelos Kyrlidis) Subject: Sinead on Letterman [Sorry for posting this here too, but I figured that someone not on jitr might have some relevant info...] Hi, I just saw an ad for next week's 'Late Show' which mentioned that Sinead will be among Letterman's guests next week. Does anybody know what day she will be on? This is I believe her first TV appearance in the US after the SNL incident and is probably worth watching, plus she will most probably perform! Any info is *most* welcome. Angelos PS. Bay Area ec-tori-philes should get their fingers ready for dialing for Tori tickets tomorrow (Sunday) morning. Now if I knew where the Herbst theater is... :) (assuming I get tix). ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 04:53:21 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: Re: Greetings from Vickie ->Chip here. I just remembered that I talked to Vickie on Monday night and I ->forgot to pass along her *HUGS* to ecto. She's temporarily off line at the ->moment and sends her love. If anyone sent her any email, she's not ignoring ->you -- she's not online. Is there a serious connection problem or is there no cause for alarm? /-\ |_ |= >< arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu (@MST=GMT-7) MST3k 42 KT Short sign on short post. ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Gov't into Email Date: Sun, 20 Feb 94 07:59:27 -0500 From: Dan Riley *sigh* Court sez: > I am forwarding this as requested..dangerous stuff this!! I don't think all the dangers are quite where you think they are... And the forwarded message sez: > I was sent this from another list and am forwarding to this one. It > concerns government having back door acess to all electronic communications > media. >> This message is about Clipper, a proposal which would allow the government >> to peek at our ***PRIVATE*** email. Please read it, and if you are as >> opposed to Clipper as I am, please sign the electronic petition and help >> stop this thing. >> >> For those of you who don't know, Clipper is a proposal circulating in the >> government right now whereby the government will require that all methods of >> encrypting data (including e-mail) have a 'backdoor' of sorts so that the >> government will be able to decrypt and read the data. As you may have >> guessed, this is an infringement on your right to privacy. Just so everyone knows--these people are being extremely sloppy about what Clipper is and what it accomplishes. Clipper/Capstone/etc. is a proposal to create an encryption standard, implemented in hardware, that includes a backdoor so government agencies, supposedly only with a valid warrant, can decrypt the encrypted traffic. Nothing in the current proposal mandates the use of this encryption system or limits the use of other encryption systems, so claiming the government wil "require" a backdoor in all encryption methods is speculative. It is a conclusion that lots of people have jumped to, but it is not part of the current Clipper proposal, and such a proposal would be (in my opinion) a non-starter in Congress or the Supreme Court. The Clipper proposal does not "allow the government to peek at our ***PRIVATE*** email"--it gives them the technical means to decrypt traffic encrypted with their encryption standard. It does not require that email be encrypted with Capstone, it does not restrict other forms of encryption. It does not change any of the laws which restrict when law enforcement agencies can intercept or view private email, so it does not in any way change what they are allowed to do. Considering that almost no email traffic is currently encrypted, and the small fraction that is encrypted is done so in software, not hardware, it does not give them *ANY* access to email on the Internet that they do not currently have. The legitimate fear here is that wide deployment of Clipper will put stronger forms of encryption at a competitive disadvantage. This is a red herring as far as current email encryption is concerned, since that is all software based, and there will be no software only implementations of Capstone. It is a potential concern for the more distant future where all network connections will presumably be hardware encrypted--but wide deployment of hardware encryption won't mean that people will have to stop using software encryption for sensitive messages. There are rumours that some federal agencies (notably the FBI) want to mandate tap points on digital telephone circuits (possibly including ISDN) so that they can retain the ability to tap phone lines. This is *not* part of the Clipper proposal. >> please forward this to everyone you know... this is important! Yes, this is important. NO, please don't forward this to everyone, as they have got it wrong in a lot of respects. There *are* a lot of good reasons to oppose Clipper, but this scare-mongering over "***PRIVATE*** email" is irresponsbile. Anyone interested in details should consult the Electronic Frontier Foundation's ftp archives at ftp.eff.org:/pub/EFF/Policy/Crypto. Oh yeah--the petition is legit, but I recommend finding out about the *real* issues before sending in your endorsement. -dan ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 10:26:05 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Clipper Chip (was Govt' into Email) Actually, I believe there *was* some regulations against using other forms of encryptions besides Clipper/Capstone. The whole deal with the Clipper proposal is the Government wants to be able to get into anything they need to get into. Sure, there are rules and regulations as to when this can happen, but many people have argued that those are weak rules and regulations, and with the widespread corruption in the government as it is, who's to say they will be enforced. If someone used some other form of encryption that can not be easily broken, then Clipper is useless. Thus, the government does not want other forms of encryption techniques used. If this were a perfect world, I would be for Clipper -- but if it were a perfect world, Clipper wouldn't be necessary. I think there is too much danger of abuse, *not necessarily by the Government.* (Some folks have already broken the Clipper encryption, or at least have claimed to, so you may not even NEED to get the two key escrow system authorized for use.) On a more Ecto related front, I went on a CD splurge yesterday. I wish I'd stop doing that, I need to get my credit card bills paid off. Anyway, on the suggestio of Ecto, I bought Catherine Wheel's Ferment and Shonen Knife's CD. I'm sorry, but Ferment sounds to be basically the same as Chrome. I don't *dislike* either, but I doubt they'll get much airplay. Shonen Knife is... interesting. Sounds like a cross between the Bangles and Joan Jett sometimes. We'll see if The Ol' OfficeMates like it. I also snagged Fumbling Towards Ecstasy. *I* like it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Matthews, Mike_Matthews@sgate.com (NeXTmail accepted) SAFH, Haagi, and Doom addict all rolled into one ======================================================================== From: klaus@inphobos.wupper.de Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 08:16:43 Subject: Today's your birthday friend.... i*i*i*i*i*i *************** ***HAPPY******* ********BIRTHDAY*** ******************* ***** Linda Saboe ***** *********************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Linda Saboe Tue February 20 1951 aimless Paula Shanks Mon February 25 1952 Pisces Brni Mojzes Fri February 26 1965 the vanishing boy Pamela Pociluk Fri February 28 1964 Pisces Tim Steele March 8 Pisces Bob R. Gupta Thu March 10 1966 Pisces kIrI Hargie Fri March 13 1970 Pisces Randall K. Smith Sat March 15 1969 Pisces Tod Flak Tue March 15 1966 Pisces Alan Sodoma Thu March 18 1965 LuckyLurker Barry Wong Thu March 19 1970 Merlin Graham Dombkins Fri March 19 1965 Pisces Ian Young Wed March 19 1969 Falling Rocks Jeff Wasilko Wed March 19 1969 Pisces Geoff Carre Sat March 20 1954 Pisces -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _____ Klaus Kluge * klaus@inphobos.wupper.de * I'll be here, I'll be (in) Ecto! ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Clipper Chip (was Govt' into Email) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 94 12:03:31 -0500 From: Dan Riley This is rapidly going to devolve into the usual "is to/is not" Clipper argument, so I'm responding to Mike by direct email. Anyone really interested should email me (*not* ecto) for a copy. In my previous message, I tried not advocate one side or the other--what I wanted to do is simply point out that neither "Gov't into Email" nor "would allow the government to peek at our ***PRIVATE*** email", both of which I'm sure everyone is against, is an accurate or complete summary of the Clipper initiative. If y'all really want to know, I'm more than a little worried that if lots of people support CSPR's petition against Clipper because of outrageous scare tactics like that, it may *lessen* the credibility of the CSPR petition. The CSPR petition will be most credible if people really understand what they are objecting to, which is why I would urge people to get the real scoop from the EFF or CSPR ftp, gopher or WWW sites. 'nuff said--rest goes via "***PRIVATE***" email to Mike... -dan ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Feb 94 16:45:00 -0500 From: Jeremy Corry Subject: Re: Yours (Truly) in Phobos: THE SCREAM Jeremy, posting for linda (SABOE@UCIS.VILL.EDU) includes: >I heard on CNN Headline News yesterday or the day before that an Anti- >Abortion group had claimed responsibility for the theft. They apparently >have demanded that Norwegian TV show the film "The Silent Scream," as >ransom for the return of the painting. The film is, of course, a radical oh dear. first of all, edvard munch is one of my favorite painters. this upsets me no end. i would have rather seen a painting stolen for the usual reason...money. at least, if a collector had contracted for the theft of a painting, you'd know it would be taken care of properly. this painting is not important to the anti-abortion people. i don't if one of them has the brains to know how to care for the painting. you are right, this is disgusting. -linda >Jeremy (who is pro-choice with qualifications) ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 13:08:41 +1300 From: Philip Sainty Subject: Happy Byrphdaes to Bob and Diane and Stephen and Doug and Jim and Juha (and Paula and Brni and Pamela just in case) Yays!!!!!!!!! *HUG* Philip (in catch-up mode) ps. if anyone has directed something to me through ecto since I got back I haven't got it as I haven't been receiving ecto... odd things are a-happening... if I missed anything important could you please resend it to me directly? I'll let people know when ecto returns to my humble address :) as for now, I have plenty of ecto to catch up on and keep me busy :) ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Gov't into Email Date: Sun, 20 Feb 94 15:06:22 PST From: Eli Brandt This is really off-topic for the list, so I'll make one reply and leave it at that. > From: Dan Riley > Nothing in the current proposal mandates the use of this encryption > system or limits the use of other encryption systems, so claiming the > government wil "require" a backdoor in all encryption methods is > speculative. Not all that speculative. The Administration has repeatedly said that if voluntary Clipper doesn't do the trick, they have no qualms about making key `escrow' mandatory. And since only a pretty dumb criminal would trust Clipper, it's not *likely* to do the trick. > The legitimate fear here is that wide deployment of Clipper will put > stronger forms of encryption at a competitive disadvantage. Particularly since the government proposes to use the export laws to selectively stifle the use of strong encryption. (if you want to make code available for the public DES standard, you have to register with the State Department as an international arms dealer.) > There are rumours that some federal agencies (notably the FBI) want > to mandate tap points on digital telephone circuits (possibly including > ISDN) so that they can retain the ability to tap phone lines. Not a rumour. They've proposed Digital Telephony once already. Now it's back, and the Clinton administration supports it. > Anyone interested in details should consult the Electronic Frontier > Foundation's ftp archives at ftp.eff.org:/pub/EFF/Policy/Crypto. I'll second that. Also gopher to cpsr.org for more information. Eli ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 00:14:30 -0800 From: jeffw@triple-i.com (Jeff Wasilko) Subject: I found Happy! I am a disciple (-: I once was lost. ---------------- I'm stranded in LA working for a few months, and I was starting to go crazy without my CDs (which are sitting in the apartment back in Boston I rarely see). So, I went out and bought a Discman, and went on a mission to singlehandedly rebuild the economy of southern CA by buying all of the CDs I've been wanting. I also decided to finally find Happy. The first 4 stores had no Happy. I wasn't happy. My last resort was the Virgin Megastore on Sunset, and I found Happy in the folk section (not where I expected her to be--was I wrong?). They had all of her albums, so I decided to start with RhodeSongs to get a feel for what HR was like. The Megastore is something else. If you ever get to LA it should be on your list of place to visit. But I found Happy. ------------------ I ran out to the car, ripped open the CD & popped her in. Wow. Wow. Wow. Now I know what you guys have been raving about. I bought 16 CDs, but I've barely played anything other than RS. What a voice. What range! I'm going back to the store tomorrow to buy the rest of her stuff. My bank account will hate me for it, but I gotta have more.... Other good stuff ---------------- I also picked up Julianna Hatfield Three and a cd-single from her solo days. Great lyrics, great voice. My Sister, This is the Sound, For The Birds & Spin the Bottle really shine. Tori's God cd-single, UtP and an import cd-single of Silent All These Years found there way into my shopping basket, too. UtP was #2 at Virgin! I'm looking forward to seeing Tori here in LA..... Bjork's Debut, Cowboy Junkies new Pale Sun-Crescent Moon, KaTe's Moment's of Pleasure box-set and the Breeders Cannonball cd-single are all contributing to the sanity as well. Does anyone recognize the name Martyn Bates? I picked up an import cd-single by Anne Clark, and she does an an absolutly amazing, beautifully haunting duet with him called "Windmills of your mind". His voice sounds very familiar, but I can't place it.... Thanks for getting me hooked on Happy! Jeff "I'm Happy, hope you're happy too" HTR/Bowie -- Jeff Wasilko, Systems Rep., Information International Inc. +1 617 937 9400 (jeffw@triple-i.com, jeffw@jane.camex.com) "He took a course in sales, he's never been the same."--Jane Siberry ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 00:24:53 -0800 From: jeffw@triple-i.com (Jeff Wasilko) Subject: March Spin: Kate interview & more! The March Spin has a Kate Bush interview, done by Laura Dern. It also has interviews with Tori Amos, Juliana Hatfield and The Breeders.... Jeff -- Jeff Wasilko, Systems Rep., Information International Inc. +1 617 937 9400 (jeffw@triple-i.com, jeffw@jane.camex.com) "He took a course in sales, he's never been the same."--Jane Siberry ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 09:58 MET From: Paul Davidsson Subject: Re: I found Happy! I am a disciple (-: Jeff Wasilko wrote: > Does anyone recognize the name Martyn Bates? Yes, I do! He's one of my favorites, has a most haunting voice, ... > I picked up an import > cd-single by Anne Clark, and she does an an absolutly amazing, beautifully > haunting duet with him called "Windmills of your mind". On which label? Is this the title track? > His voice sounds very familiar, but I can't place it.... He was (is?) in an English band called "Eyeless in Gaza" who made six albums in the eighties. He has also released four solo-albums. Most of this is brilliant stuff. /Paul Davidsson ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 01:19:38 -0800 From: jeffw@triple-i.com (Jeff Wasilko) Subject: Re: I found Happy! I am a disciple (-: At 9:58 AM 2/21/94 +0100, Paul Davidsson wrote: >Jeff Wasilko wrote: > >> Does anyone recognize the name Martyn Bates? > >Yes, I do! He's one of my favorites, has a most haunting voice, ... I agree. It's very good. Have you heard Anne Clark? >> I picked up an import >> cd-single by Anne Clark, and she does an an absolutly amazing, beautifully >> haunting duet with him called "Windmills of your mind". > >On which label? Is this the title track? The disc is caleld The Haunted Road (travelogue mixes). It's on SPV Records, a German label. It's SPV 055-93973. Windmills of your mind is the fourth song (there are 3 versions of the Haunted Road). Details on Windmills of your mind: Arranged by Eyeless in Gaza, composed by Michel le Grand, Lyrics by Alan & Mariyln Bergman. Martyn played guitar on the track as well. There are other people credited. Let me know if you're interested in who tthey are.... >> His voice sounds very familiar, but I can't place it.... > >He was (is?) in an English band called "Eyeless in Gaza" who made six albums >in the eighties. He has also released four solo-albums. Most of this is >brilliant stuff. I'll have to look for it. I'm blown away buy it.... Jeff -- Jeff Wasilko, Systems Rep., Information International Inc. +1 617 937 9400 (jeffw@triple-i.com, jeffw@jane.camex.com) "He took a course in sales, he's never been the same."--Jane Siberry ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)