Errors-To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #420 ecto, Number 420 Saturday, 6 February 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: Joni Recommendations A plea for understanding in a mechanised ethos a song goes round the world First Joni Mitchell album regarding the Equipoise cover SPOILERS SPOILERS ALERT ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Joni Recommendations Date: Fri, 05 Feb 93 17:44:36 -0500 From: "Daniel S. Riley" tsai@ikos.com (Finney T. Tsai) writes: >:> >Anyone have recommendations on what would be a good first Joni >:> >Mitchell album to buy? > >I'd rank Joni's works as: > >1. Spark and Court >2. Blue >3. Shadow and Light >4. Whatever else hmmm...my favorite Joni's might go 1. Shadows and Light 2. Hejira 3. The Hissing of Summer Lawns 4. Blue but I probably wouldn't recommend Hejira or The Hissing of Summer Lawns (or Don Juan's Reckless Daughter or Mingus) as a first Joni album, unless you're into jazz. Joni went through several distinct periods, starting with the folk/solo guitar style of Joni Mitchell, Ladies of the Canyon, Blue, and at least one other (For the Roses??). Then there's the first pop phase, which produced one classic pop album, Court and Spark. After that, she slipped into jazz with The Hissing of Summer Lawns (which, after Court and Spark, was pretty controversial), Hejira, Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, Mingus, and the *amazing* Shadows and Light tour (and live album). Following that is the second pop phase, with several albums whose names completely escape me now (even the one done in Peter Gabriel's studio). Since the styles vary substantially, where you start depends a lot on what you are interested in. The Joni Mitchell most people are familiar with is the first two phases--the folk singer who wrote songs like "Chelsea Morning", and the pop singer of Court and Spark. The venture into jazz lost a lot of her audience, and her (undistinguished, in my opinion) pop albums since then haven't really regained it. For a "classic" Joni Mitchell first album, I suppose I'd reccomend Court and Spark or Blue, followed perhaps by For the Roses (if I've got that right), and then maybe The Hissing of Summer Lawns if you're feeling adventurous. (this is all from memory--I'm at work, and the lyrics server doesn't have much useful for Joni--so apologies for the gaps. Album lists are only approximately chronological, as I honestly can't remember the dates for *any* of them offhand...) -- Dan Riley Internet: dsr@lns598.tn.cornell.edu Wilson Lab, Cornell University HEPNET/SPAN: lns598::dsr (44630::dsr) "WARPAINT is two fellows one of the fantasy kingly album that the gardener to relatives' creativity by the first lung from Zitaten can set fire to" ======================================================================== From: Martin Dougiamas Subject: A plea for understanding in a mechanised ethos Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 01:55:23 +0800 (WST) Hiya people... I'm trying to catch up on the avalanche of recent ecto traffic... I'm afraid several tasty little snowballs have now probably totally passed me by.. apologies. Skaludy writes: [A whole lot of reminiscing that reminded me very much of my own musical awakening. Particularly the bit about early radio tapes.] My first radio and my first tape recorder weren't connected together, I used to prop up my tape recorder in front of the radio speaker to make recordings (real lo-fi). Later I found I got a better effect by making a small precarious tunnel out of pillows, and placing the radio and recorder at opposite ends. This was designed to allow a better sound transfer (a bit like getting gold cables for your speakers these days :) with the added advantage of reducing outside interference from pets sniffing at the microphone or Mum calling me for dinner. I still like all the music I taped in those early days. > I did buy a single sometime in elementary school, Rock On > by David Essex, which to this day I think is a pretty cool song. This is one of the songs on my first-ever radio tape! In those days, I only had one or two tapes and every second on them was precious, so I would only record "the good bits" of songs. As a result I would have dozens of song fragments and not know who they were by. Rock On was one of these... I sang "Blue Jean, baby queen, prettiest girl I ever seen/ See her shake on the movie screen... rock on" for YEARS before I knew what it was... Cool song, yes. > Someone did a remake of it recently--anyone know who? Well, down here, at least, it's being used in some MacDonalds commercials that feature a James Dean look-alike doing a James Dean impression of walking down a smoky New York street. Do you have the same ad in the states? Vickie asked about Sesame Street in Australia. Yep, we get the yank version, lock stock and barrel. Which is why I'm keen to know exactly what bits Kevin did, since I always like the music (especially the covers :) they do on that show. Like the Billy Idol song, "Rebel L" and that ZZ-Top song about the letter "Z". I think some of the studio musicians doing the backing music for that stuff are far better than the originals they emulate. I actually asked Kevin in my Ectopoise, oops, Equipoise order for more details on this part of his career. Hopefully he'll answer. Vickie also drops a few spoilers about the new album and concludes: > Yours, in humbleness at being the first,... Vickie, who better? :) I'm sure H&K feel the same way... they would've put off the release date until you sent your order in. :) Yours from a complicated life, Martin -- ,-----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | I detect a side-effect of a complicated life | Martin Dougiamas | | The edge is on, sharp as a knife | martin@cs.curtin.edu.au | | Underground tremor, stop it with a dime | martin@dialix.oz.au | | Hey girl, call me if you change your mind | Perth, Western Australia | `=============================================================================' ======================================================================== Subject: a song goes round the world From: klaus@inphobos.w.open.de (Cosmic Vagabond) Date: Fri, 05 Feb 93 23:00:20 GMT OK, so here is my "do it" line: Ectophiles do it at the keyboard. > Congratulations accepted at neile@u.washington.edu ;) I'm too lazy to start a new message. So, "Congratulations" to you, Neile through the list. :) Stephen asked: > 1st4), or has this changed? Also, how much will it cost for us? The only information I have is for my monster order. Kevin didn't want to go to the post office to weight out 13 CDs, so he gave me a price for shipping 4 CDs to Europe, $7.63, plus $0.65 for each additional CD. Angelos wrote: > experience with AG it will be here next Thursday, ie. two weeks from when > I mailed out the order and I most certainly can't wait til then). I was hoping for a 2 week turnaround time for my order, which should be possible. I can imagine that H&K have to go to the post office daily, now that they are flooded with orders. Let me tell you that the first song on Equipoise sounds great!! I'm not quite sure if I really heard it this night, or if it was just a nice dream. Judging frome the tiredness I'm feeling it must be true that Vickie called in the middle of the night to play this song. :) It must have been quite a sight, Claudia and me both trying to listen to the phone at the same time. :) Thanks for calling Vickie!!! It was a great surprise! Due to the unusual time I forgot to record it. Otherwise I could have called some other ectophiles with that tape. :) Claudia here: I really have to back this. It was kind of a spiritual experience. To draw the picture more precisely: listening to the phone barefoot in our pajamas in a dark living room 8-). Vickie, you're an angel! I mean it! Of course, now waiting for the "rest" of Equipoise to show up is harder than ever. Hugs, Claudia Before I forget: we had some problems with getting email in the last week, to the effect that I'm missing 2 ecto digests. That's no problem as I can get them from the archive (as soon as they are there (hint hint)), but it's quite possible that some email disappeared. Let me know if you are waiting longer than usual for a reply. ___________________________________________________________ . * | "Tell me all the plans you have for the great beyond. | _ . * .* . | Will you be physical again, or be a cosmic vagabond." | (_) . | --- Happy Rhodes --- | . . o | Klaus "cosmic vagabond" Kluge klaus@inphobos.w.open.de | <== ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 18:12:25 EST From: kosky@saul.cis.upenn.edu (Anthony Kosky) Subject: First Joni Mitchell album I'd recommend Hejira as a good Joni Mitchell album to start on. Mind this is partly because it has one short stretch of backing vocals (on Song For Sharon I think) which I absolutely love. I'm not quite sure why; it's just one of those things which bypasses my brain and goes straight to the back of my neck, where it proceeds to make all the hairs stand on end. Mind you I think Hejira would probably be my favorite JM album even without that. After that, I'd agree with Laura that Court And Spark and Blue would be good ones to get, probably in that order. -Anthony ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Joni Recommendations Date: Fri, 05 Feb 93 21:22:12 -0500 From: "Daniel S. Riley" (Yes, I'm following up my own post--isn't that the first net-sign of senility?) >Joni went through several distinct periods, starting with the folk/solo >guitar style of Joni Mitchell, Ladies of the Canyon, Blue, and at least ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That was supposed to be Clouds, her first(?) album (the one with "Both Sides Now" and "Chelsea Morning"--all those songs that Judy Collins covered). >one other (For the Roses??). Then there's the first pop phase, which ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That one, at least, was right...though I should probably note that For the Roses has a lot of pop sneaking in, just as The Hissing of Summer Lawns has more pop and less jazz than, say, Mingus... >is the second pop phase, with several albums whose names completely escape >me now (even the one done in Peter Gabriel's studio). Well, the ones I have are Wild Things Run Fast, Dog Eat Dog (with Thomas Dolby co-producing--I gather this was not a very comfortable collaboration, but it does actually have some very good tracks), and Chalk Mark in Rain Storm (the one made at least partially in Peter Gabriel's studio, I think). I probably should listen to these again--it's been a long time since I put them on. -- Dan Riley Internet: dsr@lns598.tn.cornell.edu Wilson Lab, Cornell University HEPNET/SPAN: lns598::dsr (44630::dsr) "WARPAINT is two fellows one of the fantasy kingly album that the gardener to relatives' creativity by the first lung from Zitaten can set fire to" ======================================================================== Subject: regarding the Equipoise cover Date: Fri, 05 Feb 93 23:24:37 -0500 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu Upon first sighting, my friend Mike exclaimed "What, is that before and after her first cup of coffee?" You'll understand when you see the cover... Jeff |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Fairies are the perfect people to do this | |(suffering Bad Grammar) | sort of work. Biologically, their upper | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | bodies are strong enough to wield a pickaxe...." | ======================================================================== Subject: SPOILERS SPOILERS ALERT Date: Sat, 06 Feb 93 02:09:30 EST From: Angelos Kyrlidis You have been warned... First reactions...after essentially running back home... Huh? Is *this* Happy? I don't know Vickie and Jeff, I was (at first) very surprised by Equipoise. It sounds IMHO nothing like Warpaint, or for that matter anything that Happy has recorded to date. In fact, I had the same first reaction I had to the Dreaming. Ie, I hated it. But I decided I was being extremely naive, and had to listen more carefully, and so I chilled out, went to see 'The crying game' which I heartily recommend to everyone BTW (what an original plot and movie, touching and intrinsically ironic and funny at the same time, as in *WOW*). But I digress. What I hated was what seemed as an overproduction, and the lack of simplicity that made the 1st4 and Warpaint so special for me. This is such a dramatic step forward that it takes some time to readjust, and forget everything about Happy's past, and look at it with an open and clear mind. Now after the 4th listen I am amazed at the depth of Equipoise, and when I am more coherent I will post more. It is just *so* complex both rythmically and melodically, and there is so much happening that *very* close attention is obligatory. BTW, the cover is *awesome*. Way to go Happy! Oh, and I didn't get the inserts that Vickie was talking about. :( Faves (so far): Runners, Save our souls, Play the game (plus the 'live' ones) angelos (momentarily a heretic) +---------------------+ Quote: / | \ / \ / | \ 'I believe now, that a more perfect \ Happy / =|= \Rhodes / *state of balance* can be achieved, \_____/ | \_____/ by accepting and embracing the *DARK* E Q U I P O I S E as well as the *LIGHT* in ourselves.' __+__ -- Happy Rhodes ======================================================================== Subject: Re: SPOILERS SPOILERS ALERT Date: Sat, 06 Feb 93 07:51:55 -0500 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu Yup, here we go spoilin' things for youse. >In fact, I had the same first reaction I had to the Dreaming. Y'know, Angelos, in my first posting after my first listen, I was *this* || close to calling Equipoise "Happy's _The Dreaming_"! But I (and apparently this goes for Vickie too) wasn't *nearly* as suprised on my first listen to _Equipoise_ as I was the first time I heard _The Dreaming_. If anything, I was far more surprised by _Warpaint_ than I was by _Equipoise_. >went to see 'The crying game' which I heartily recommend to everyone >BTW (what an original plot and movie, touching and intrinsically ironic >and funny at the same time, as in *WOW*). But I digress. Definitely a wonderful movie. But I don't understand why all the insistence on "keeping the secret"; I'd already figured out that particular plot twist before it was revealed. Dunno; maybe it's my background. >What I hated was what seemed as an overproduction, and the lack of simplicity >that made the 1st4 and Warpaint so special for me. There's nothing simple about _Warpaint_ (just as there's nothing simple about _Never For Ever_). What finally made me decide _not_ to compare _Equipoise_ to _The Dreaming_ was that to my mind, the only really experimental, risk-taking song on _Equipoise_ is "Cohabitants" (which I *love*). >Now after the 4th listen Yup! I got in 4 listens yesterday too! >BTW, the cover is *awesome*. Way to go Happy! Oh, and I didn't get the >inserts that Vickie was talking about. :( I was a bit startled by Happy on the cover; it's so *different* from any picture I've seen of her (or my memories of her) that at first I wasn't even positive it _was_ her. That was more of a double-take reaction, though. Jeff ======================================================================== Subject: Re: SPOILERS SPOILERS ALERT Date: Sat, 06 Feb 93 11:34:22 EST From: Angelos Kyrlidis [How do you insert the ctrl-l character? Just curious...] ^L {I doubt this will work... SPoilers spoilers} In response to Jeff's response to my comments. I don't think that Cohabitants is the only risk-taking song. 'Closer' doesn't quite have a traditional song structure, neither does 'out like a lamb', IMO. The good news is that with every listen I am drawn closer to Equipoise, and I am beginning to like it immensely. OK, Warpaint isn't simple when you compare it to the 1st4, but when you compare it to Equipoise, it is quite straightforward. Not that many effects or production tricks, straight melodies, and rythms. What alienated me the first time were all these changes. I had gone through a V1 and V2 phase, and it took me by surprise. Oh, and 'Runners' definitely has the potential for being a radio hit. If a witty video is made, I can see it being a 'Buzz clip'!! Equipoise is better appreciated either with headphones, or REAL LOUD. Angelos ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)