Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #935 ecto, Number 935 Sunday, 26 December 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* that big sucking sound i really should be packing Texecto Dhalgrenagain lori carson Possible source of Margot CDs! curve interview birth certis, home and top ten? Re: Fixed David Captured! i'm doomed ...be careful!! = ) Re: The Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram Re: Quick thing (about the Goddess Concert) ======================================================================== a bunch of digests (7, though one is just one long message) coming your way. sorry for not sending them out last few days. and none for the next week. ugh. i considered taking the computer+modem with me on vacation and decided strongly AGAINST that :) jessica ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 23:59:54 EST From: woj@remus.rutgers.edu (the dark saxophone) Subject: that big sucking sound Mike Mendelson sez: >I urge the rest of you out there to take a moment and seriously >consider the eventuality that you must ultimately face: you will >be drawn closer and closer to Chicago, it is only a matter of time. heh. :) last i heard, the master plan (at least as far as jessica is concerned) was to have everyone move to new brunswick. so far, two have made the jump (greg and i). dave steiner is already here (as are at least one other lurking rutgersphile). meredith should move here sometime next year we hope. who's next to join the rutgers lovefest?!? +w ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 00:06:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Suspended In Duct Tape Subject: i really should be packing Hi! I really should be packing to go spend the weekend with the 'rents in Florida, but ... you know how it goes. :) Mitch, regular coffee merely makes me retch. Decaf elicits a much more... spectacular reaction. :P And if you didn't manage to pick up that last copy of the Utne Reader, let me know and I can send you mine when I'm done. I forget now who posted it, but I had to think really hard for a minute about just what was wrong with the concept of Braille on a drive-up ATM. When it finally hit me, I fell on the floor. Gads. Vickie and Neal- fear not, I am a firm believer that when you die, Death will lead you to a room containing all the things you lost during your lifetime- every single sock, key, glove, umbrella, wallet, and birth certificate/social security card will be waiting for you to claim them. At the rate I'm going, she's going to lead me to a four-story duplex with my name on it... :} (Neal, why did you have to write to Maine for a new birth certificate- were you born there? If so, where?) I realized that I forgot two mentions in my albums of the year post: Ashley Maher's _Hi_ and _Pomegranate_. How could I forget those? Layered, complex, beautiful.... it's a crime that they're out of print. Thanks, Anthony Kosky, for getting them for me!!! (Speaking of which, Anthony, my local shop is still "working on" importing _Fumbling Towards Ecstasy_ for me- I'll let you know when/if they do.) Which reminds me- if said local shop is indeed successful in importing _FtE_, if they followed my suggestion they should get in multiple copies, so after I buy my own copy of the CD and one for Anthony and Tamar gets hers, I'm sure I could be persuaded to pick up any of the remaining copies, if any, for Sarah-deprived souls out there. I'll let y'all know if the store gets them in. Well folks, that's it from here. I'm not sure if I'll be successful in my efforts to log on over the weekend, so if not, I wish all to whom it applies a very merry Christmas- may you all get lots of nifty presents. :) Meredith meth@delphi.com P.S. I think tonight was the night for Jeopardy here, but of course, I didn't get home from work until 9:00. Double argh!!! :P ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 00:11:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Suspended In Duct Tape Subject: Re: that big sucking sound Hi! "rutgers lovefest". Oooh, kinky. ;> It really is a party down there, guys. Let's have a contest to see which area ultimately wins! Meredith meth@delphi.com ======================================================================== From: Joe Zitt Subject: Texecto Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 23:13:04 -0600 (CST) "I THINK THEREFORE I AM...CONFUSED" writes: > I've been meaning to post this for awhile, so I thought I > would and be done with it. Firstly, I plan to be in El Paso > 12.31-1.4, gotta go get scared on some rocks in Hueco Tanks. So I > was wondering if there were any Texas Ectophiles in the area...e-mail > me if you're interested. Well, there are at least two Texas Ectophiles: I'm in Austin and Brian Bloom is in Dallas or someplace like that. Believe it or not, I haven't the slightest idea where El Paso is, though I understand stand that any place in Texas is (as LeGuin would put it) Very Far Away From Anywhere Else. Unrelatedly: NIN fans will be pleased to know (and probably already do) that Adrian Belew (Tony Levin's guitarist B-]) has laid down some tracks for the next NIN project. Hmm.... Unrelatedly^2: Does anyone know what else Lori Carson and Lydia Kavanagh (featured on the new Golden Palominos album) have done. Unrelatedly^4: I'm listening to LaMonte Young's "The Well Tuned Piano" now. Pretty nice stuff -- though I'm glad I managed to get it out of the library rather than shell out for the 5 CD set! ======================================================================== From: Joe Zitt Subject: Dhalgrenagain Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 23:23:51 -0600 (CST) klaus@inphobos.wupper.de klauses: > Andy> I'm looking for a copy of Dhalgren to give to > > someone for Xmas. Any help is appreciated! > Claudia says you can't have hers. Sorry. But it's a german > translation anyway. :) Wow -- my mind is boggling at the thought of a German translation of it! I'e been rereading the book, and recently was somewhat baffled to discover that I'd been carrying around *two* copies in my backpack. Actually, these things happen with Dhalgren... (That's nothing like the times Herman Hesse books would show up in my high school locker, even though nobody other than me (I?) could have put them there... Looking back, it *could* have been Cohabitants...) ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 00:44:09 EST From: woj@remus.rutgers.edu (the dark saxophone) Subject: lori carson Joe Zitt sez: >Unrelatedly^2: Does anyone know what else Lori Carson and Lydia >Kavanagh (featured on the new Golden Palominos album) have done. lori carson has one album out. i *think* it's called _shelter_ and i don't think i have it (seriously, i can't remember - i know i had a copy once and listened to it but i don't know if it was mine or someone else's). i didn't think that the album was that remarkable (well, obviously, it left no impression on me) though, apparantly, anton fier thought that lori was good enough for the palominos. i guess i'll have to pick up their new album sometime now too. sigh. >Pretty nice stuff -- though I'm glad I managed to get it out of >the library rather than shell out for the 5 CD set! aren't libraries great? even though i moved out of morris county, i managed to retain a lending card with them since my employer is based there. the morris county library has one of the greatest music collections i've ever seen. literally tons of classical and jazz, as you'd expect, but also a surprisingly large collection of ethnic musics (on vinyl and cassette) and, of all things, a very complete pop music section (on cassette only). all sorts of strange and varied stuff in there from david sylvian to the woodentops to, yes, KaTe (but, alas, no happy). +woj ======================================================================== Subject: Possible source of Margot CDs! Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 22:19:59 From: anthony@xymox.apana.org.au (Anthony Horan) I noticed someone mention this company on the net, so I mailed them asking about whether they carry Australian imports, and the following is what I got back. I'll mail again and ask if they have Margot's album in stock, and the results of that one I'll post via my mailing list. *** BEGIN INCLUDE *** Seasons Greetings, Anthem Entertainment carries 20,000 import titles from Australia, Europe & Japan. Including 60,000 U.S. domestic releases. Plus we can special order any in print title from anywhere in the world!!! If you have any specific inquiries or wish to receive our bi-weekly post either e-mail us at AnthemEnt@aol.com or phone (310) 691-9336. Thank you for your time, ANTHEM ENTERTAINMENT *** END INCLUDE *** If anyone has success in getting anything noteworthy and Australian from them let me know! - Anthony -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony Horan, Melbourne Australia - anthony@xymox.apana.org.au "I kind of feel like I'm Metallica..." - Tori Amos on the perils of long tours, November 1992 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 01:04:36 EST From: woj@remus.rutgers.edu (the dark saxophone) Subject: curve interview an interview with toni halliday from curve recently sprouted root in my emailbox. it's rather large, so i'd rather not post it to ecto in one swell foop. if anyone is interested in seeing it in all its 26kb glory, drop me a line and i'll send it along. +w ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 00:33:25 CST From: kiri Subject: birth certis, home and top ten? i've had my fair share of birth certificate snafus. now i carry a notarized copy in my wallet. I started carrying it about 3 years ago when I was traveling through canada a lot. One time as i crossed the border they asked me if i had my bc...i didn't (they let me across anyway) but ever since then i've carried it... heading home tomorrow....very excited for cheese fondue tradition on xmas eve. Happy Christmas, Yule, Solstice, Vacation, New Year etc. to all!!! I'll just mention my top ten(sorta) to close out this post, in no particular order they are: Bjork Debut Jane Siberry When I Was a Boy Happy Equipoise Tears for Fears Elemental Sisters of Mercy Slight case of Overbombing Dead Can Dance Into the Labyrinthh Sliver Soundtrack ok so maybe not ten albums... these are the ones that received the most playtime on my system though... While I was excited to see a new Kate release, I wasn't as excited to hear it. There are only one or two songs that I can listen to...I usually skip over the rest. The songs just get on my nerves. albums that I didn't get a chance to buy but I would like to: The Story Sarah M. FTE Lords of Acid The Police box set Rhodessongs ... karin keep the pot bubbling, cause here i come! kiri ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 23:16:27 PST From: dixon@physics.berkeley.edu (David Dixon) Subject: Re: Fixed Michael pleads: >Okay, Dave, I give up. What movie is it? The movie that's sampled in "Sanctified" is _Midnight Express_. The barely-discernible monologue during the slowed-down Gregorian chant part is the lead character (the college student who gets busted for trying to smuggle hashish out of Turkey) reading a letter to his parents, "Dear Mom and Dad, this is the hardest letter I've ever had to write," etc... Near the end of the song, the screaming (which sounds a lot like "Noooo!!! My baby!!! Noooo!!") is Randy Quaid's character (the guy who's always trying to escape) being beaten to a pulp. Stick that in your mental Rolodex and give it a spin. D^2 ======================================================================== From: neilg@sfu.ca Subject: Re: i really should be packing Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 23:38:34 -0800 (PST) Meredith types: > I forget now who posted it, but I had to think really hard for a minute > about just what was wrong with the concept of Braille on a drive-up ATM. > When it finally hit me, I fell on the floor. Gads. Er, well, doesn't that mean that someone who's got impaired vision can still operate one of said ATMs when being driven in a vehicle by someone else? Or are these drive-in ATMs (never seen one) designed to be operated by whoever's sitting in the driver's seat? > Vickie and Neal- fear not, I am a firm believer that when you die, Death will > lead you to a room containing all the things you lost during your lifetime- > every single sock, key, glove, umbrella, wallet, and birth certificate/social > security card will be waiting for you to claim them. At the rate I'm going, > she's going to lead me to a four-story duplex with my name on it... :} Wow! :) What a beautiful image! I like it! > P.S. I think tonight was the night for Jeopardy here, but of > course, I didn't get home from work until 9:00. Double argh!!! :P I couldn't figure out when it was on as someone pilfered my copy of the Friday paper that contains the week's TV listings. Oh, well. So I'm afraid I missed the Jeopardy extravaganza. :( Actually, speaking of TV quiz shows, has anyone got any opinions on the English variety? They always seem *much* harder to me than the American ones. Which *isn't* to demean the experience of the ectoJeopardy folk! I doubt I'd be able to get on one. The only time I've been on a TV quiz show was years ago back in high school, where I was on the Canadian high school quiz show _Genies en Herbe_. (the French-language equivalent of the _Reach for the Top_, I think.) And I did embarrassingly poorly. Of course, the show was entirely in French and my team was up against a team of Francophones, and my French is hardly up to par with that of a native French speaker, so I felt excused. :) As far as I can remember the only question I got right (or rather, the only one for which I was quick enough on the buzzer) was who was Dr. Henry Morgentaler. (for non-Canadians, he's a pro-choice crusader who keeps getting fined, charged, jailed and firebombed for providing abortion services) Anyway, I remember watching British game shows and thinking they were impossibly hard. The most striking was this one in which contestants were grilled on the topic of their choice. And I remember this nice-looking elderly mumsy type, complete with light-blue cardigan, stepping onto this silly black stage and clambering inside this sort of metal sphere thing that was suspended over the stage, and being asked some completely and totally obscure questions on the topic of Beatrix Potter children's books. I don't remember the questions, but it was along the line of "The second printing of The Tale of Peter Rabbit contained a typographical error. What was the error and on what page did it occur?" or something like that. Phew! And she answered each question without hesitation, a faintly confident smile playing across her lips. Wow! Of course, I know I'd do badly at Jeopardy 'cos I know about as much as the average hamster about the US Civil War, American presidents, Hollywood movies of the 30s and baseball. :) - Neil K. -- 49N 16' 123W 7' / Vancouver, BC, Canada / neil_k_guy@sfu.ca ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 3:12:02 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: David Captured! Chris has used his nifty frame-grabber to get and make a gif/jpeg of David Dixon on Jeopardy. Jess isn't on-line so it's not ftpable yet, but it should be available soon. That is, unless David is horrified at the thought and says "NO!" in which case we'll see how much money he's willing to part with to keep me from posting it :-). It's a very nice picture though. I chose the bit where Dave has picked the Daily Double, and is waiting for the answer to question. DeeTwo is on the left side of the screen, looking down into the moniter, looking very serious and thoughtful, and the "Daily Double" logo is on the right. It would make a wonderful addition to the Ectophile gifs directory at hardees. Btw, David, being a physics guy and all, might find this amusing: I was looking around for a tape with time on it and quickly found a tape with things on it, but time on the end. "Dave on Jeopardy" is at the end of a tape containing 2 Mystery Science Theater 3000s, and a Nova documentary about Richard Feynman that was on last night. Dave, you're in good company! This from-video frame grabber is so cool! We can make gifs of anything we have on video. If they didn't take up so much room I'd suggest adding a "Femmegifs" section, to go along with the Ectophiles Guide when it's ready. Of course, I don't have videos by everybody, but I could provide gifs from videos by lots of people, from Victoria Williams to Jane Siberry to Bobo to Mari Boine (thanks to Uli & Perttu!) to Shona Laing to Diamanda Galas to Mary Margaret O'Hara. *Lots* of people! Um, Jess? :-) *Someday* Happy will have videos and live performances available. Someday...:-) Vickie ======================================================================== From: p.cohen@genie.geis.com Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 08:07:00 BST Subject: i'm doomed Jessica: If you think you're hooked now, just wait until you see the full version. It may be violent as hell, but this is one of the most graphically inventive games around. BTW, for a taste of a D&D application of this graphical engine, check out ShadowCaster. +########################################################################+ +###+ Paul Cohen, Philadelphia, PA +###+ +########################################################################+ +###+ P.COHEN@genie.geis.com +###+ PMCOHEN@aol.com +###+ +###+ 70703.3126@compuserve.com +###+ PMCOHEN@delphi.com +###+ +########################################################################+ ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 09:54:00 CET From: Ilka Heber Subject: ...be careful!! = ) Hi Everbody, I just wanted to say that you are better careful out there! I might really come along to the Scottish Ectofest!!!!!! = ) Actually, June 12 would be quite a good date. How many people would join in? Isn't that a good chance to check out Scotland??? The other thing: I'm also very said to hear about that poor little doggy! My parents have a dog, too, she's partly a German sheppard and a very good and friendly dog. When she was still a puppy she started to have problems with her hips. It comes from the breeding, as the breeders are trying to make the hips of the sheppards lower than the shoulder. Like that, there's too much pressure on the hipbones. The result: the dogs get hip dysplasy (spelling?? word???). That means that the socket does not hold the bone properly and as a result, the bone slips out. The poor dog had quite some pain. We went to the vet who took an x-ray and said that we should better put the dog down right now, before we get more attached to her. At that time Asta was about 6 - 9 months old. My dad had a friend in the north of Germany, who is also a vet. He send him the x-rays for a second opinion. The guy showed them to some colleagues, too, and the general opinion was sheer surprise that the dog can still walk at all. It seemed that bad! Meanwhile, Asta miraculously recovered! The pain seemed to have gone away just like that and she was bouncing about in the woods like any other dog. So we didn't have her put down. Now she's over 10 years old! She is getting older, of course, and she can't run that well anymore, but the hip problems are not too bad. Sometimes she can't get up properly and she'll scream, which is pretty bad, but most of the time you wouldn't guess that there's something wrong with that dog... Well, and now for some season's greetings: * * * * * * * *** *** * * Merry Christmas * * * * & *** *** * * A Happy New Year * * * * ***************** : : All the best to you Ectophiles - whereever you are - *HUGS*, Ilka = ) ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 05:33:50 EST From: vickie@pilot.njin.net (Vickie Mapes) Subject: Re: The Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram (I'm cc'ing this to Ecto because of some Happy content) robh@cyberspace.org (Robert Henderson) writes in gaffa: >Here you go, folks. After last night's wonderful ritual, and the >encouragement of a few people on the group (Thanks, IED and |>oug!), >I'm going ahead and posting my explanation of the LBRP and its >influence in the Kate song "Lily." Damn the flames, full speed >ahead! Enjoy! >====================================================================== > The Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram First, this *isn't* a flame. I'm one of these people who honestly thinks "whatever's your bag" is fine in things like this. I don't believe in this stuff any more than I believe in god or the tooth fairy, but the key word there is *I*. I don't believe, but it makes no difference to me if anyone else does. If, someday, I felt some sort of *need* for "something" of a religious nature, I'd probably check out Wicca, because I like their goddess philosophy. (Please though, I don't feel that need, so don't e-mail me about Wicca or any other religion/cult.) What caught my eye were a couple of lines in here. >Pretty basic stuff here. Kate (or Kate's character in the song) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ *Thank you* for saying that. I *personally* (as in IMHO) think that it's a "character" is who is singing. Not that I'd care if Kate's into this stuff for real. It doesn't matter to me. The only thing that would make me drop Kate is if I found out she was a Scientologist. (which I've never even heard a hint about, so there's no reason to start a thread about it.) >order! Many people on alt.magick have discussed this. One person >has pointed out that if Kate is facing west and standing upside >down, then everything works out the same. There's another >explanation, though. There is, you know, a third explanation. Kate just read this stuff about Michael & Gabriel & whoever, and it was wrong, and she didn't know any better, and wasn't into it enough to *seriously* research it, and put it in the song that way, not realizing that it would cause massive discussion amongst pagans who *are* into it. In other words, as fascinating as all this stuff is (and I'm not aligned with Chris when it comes to posting it. I don't care if people want to talk about it, I just delete it anyway) I think *maybe* some people are taking it far too seriously *with regards to* Kate. That's just my opinion. If I might offend anyone, I don't mean to do that. It's just that I've been through this before. Non-Kate story ahead: One of my listeners in Kansas City was absolutely *convinced* that Happy Rhodes was a Wiccan. He and his wife had diagrammed songs, written up parallels between Wicca stuff and her lyrics, and had really gone into detail about "documenting" their belief about Happy. When I interviewed Happy live on the air one night (well, it was a phone interview) he called to ask Happy directly if she was a Wiccan. She answered by asking "What's that? I'm sorry, but I've never heard of Wiccan" and that was that. I explained to her later a bit about the religion and she may well know more about it now than she did then. My point is that this guy was convinced that she was, and she wasn't. Now, obviously, Kate knows *enough* about Wicca to know something about that ritual, but IMHO she just used it in the song, and there just isn't enough evidence to say that she actually practices the religion or ritual. Of course, I could be wrong, but unless she actually says she's now a Wiccan in an interview, I'll look at the song the same way I look at all her songs. Interesting lyrics about interesting subjects is a trademark of Kates, something she does so well, and it's fine if her songs get people to broaden their knowledge about different subjects (I actually *bought* the W. Reich biography "Fury On Earth" but never finished it) but it really isn't a good idea to latch onto *any* of Kate's lyrics to "prove" she believes in any one thing or another. They're all stories, after all. Almost all. >(And of course, when studying any kind of occultism, it's always >best to take everything with a pinch of salt!) :-) I'll take that the way I read it. Vickie (who doubts that Kate is "into" incest just because she wrote "The Kick Inside") ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 6:42:08 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: Quick thing (about the Goddess Concert) MichaelCees me being lazy: > On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, WretchAwry wrote: > > Chris and I are back from our Toronto trip and I'll be posting about > > it (in Ecto, don't worry Marcel) later. I did want to pass something > > along to North Americans though. > Did I miss something? I don't recall getting any glorious details > about the concert itself. I'm hungry for details! How wonderful > was it? What was it like to hear those five uniquely beautiful > voices blended together? I apologize if you already did this and > I foolishly missed it. No, you didn't miss it. I'm a slug (like Holly! at least I'm in good company :-)) and I haven't finished it. Like so many other things, I'll start working on it and then just sort of wander off to something else. It's become a TM of mine to leave things half-done, and I hate being that way, but it's the way I am. :-(. It's not so bad if I don't *promise* something, but I tend to say "I will, I will, I really will" but then don't. I never start something with the *intention* of not finishing it, or else I'd say "We had a *great* time, but you're not going to ever hear about it because I'm a lazy slug." *Will* I finish and post my Toronto story? Maybe, but I won't promise. :-( I'm just not as good at writing long stories as I used to be. > > CBC Radio 740 - Saturday December 25, 1993 at 7:08pm > > CBC Stereo 94.1 - Sunday December 26, 1993 at 8:05pm > > There should be ads promoting the concert in Canada on radio, television > > (definitely Much Music) and in print. > > > > I know *nothing* about the NPR broadcasts except that in the program > > guide it says: > > "This program will also be aired on over 200 National Public Radio > > member stations throughout the United States." > If anyone gets this event on tape, please let me know. I'd give alot > for a copy. I did find out that APR (American Public Radio) stations were offered the show for free, while NPR stations had to pay for it. That "will also be aired" was deceptive. It should have been "will be offered to" and then it's up to the individual stations. No matter what, we *will* be getting a copy. We've been promised copies by at least 5 different people, and when a copy arrives I will immediately make a dub and send it to Doug for his Tape Dubbing Project. I *WILL* DO THIS! Really! This is an excerpt from the Post-That-Hasn't-Been-Finished: The following is a list of the songs sung, in the order that they were sung. Since the broadcast concert will be trimmed to an hour, not all of these will be heard on the radio. They were all quite wonderful, and it's sad to know that probably half of these songs will be cut out. It Came Upon A Midnight Clear (hummed as Jane introduces the show) Little Drummer Boy (Holly solo) Everything I Wish For You (all, Mary Margaret O'Hara song) Un Flambeau, Jeanette. Isabella (all) In The Bleak Mid-Winter (all) Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas (Victoria solo) Wildwood Carol (Jane solo) White Christmas (Mary Margaret solo) Carol Of The Bells (all) I'll Be Home For Christmas (Rebecca solo) Deck The Halls (Holly solo) A Holy Thing (Victoria solo, her song) Patapan (all) Are You Burning Little Candle? (all, Jane song) Please Come Home For Christmas (Holly solo) Never No (Mary Margaret solo) Count Your Blessings (all) Here We Come A-Wassailing (all) What Is This Fragrance Softly Stealing (Mary Margaret solo) We Wish You A Merry Christmas (all) Silent Night (all) Repeats* In The Bleak Midwinter Are You Burning Little Candle? Deck The Halls Everything I Wished For You (* They weren't happy with the first versions, so they came back on-stage to re-record these. They wanted to repeat more, but the theater management wouldn't let them.) > And by the way, Vickie, thanks for all your warm sharing and heartfelt > communications to ecto. You really know how to make people feel > welcome. Thanks Michael (isn't he nice folks? He says that even though I never got around to answering his e-mail asking about Julee Cruise.) *HUG* Vickie ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)