Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #931 ecto, Number 931 Wednesday, 22 December 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Unlurking Re: i-girls Re: what a surprise! Deborah Conway Re: HGP, Scotland Re: Yo! Welcome, Dave! Re: Game Theory Looking for....? The power of music, NIN, pain, me, religion back from the dead Re: Excuse me, may I vent for a moment? ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 11:39:04 MEZ From: Dirk Kastens Subject: Unlurking Hi folks, time to unlurk and thank for the birthday wishes. Well, now I'm 30 and everybody told me that I would feel much older than before. But I do NOT feel older, ha :-) Maybe next year when I have to start working. I didn't read the digests during the last couple of weeks because I was too busy. We're just installing a new Novell net at university and I have to prepare my oral exams which will be in February and March. But I hope to catch up with the digests during the holidays. Time to wish you all a happy holiday and a happy new year. Dirk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ || \\\\\ || ///// | dkastens@dosuni1.rz.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE || ))))) IRK || ((((( ASTENS | "Music's the way, the only way I know" || ///// || \\\\\ | Happy Rhodes ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 11:23:25 +0000 From: S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk (Steve Fagg's Mac) Subject: Re: i-girls At 5:18 pm 21/12/93 -0800, Neal Copperman wrote: >Steve Fagg, here's one persons opinions on the Indigo Girls: ... comments on individual albums deleted ... >So, in summary, I say buy in this order > 1) Rites of Passage > 2) Indigo Girls > 3) At this point, it doesn't matter all that much. Thanks for the suggestions. I recognise several of the titles you mentioned, I've seen several of their albums in the shops since getting "Indigo Girls" but not been sure which to go for. I'll be looking out for "Rites of Passage" in the new year. -- Regards Steve Fagg ( S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk +44-279-402437 ) BNR Europe Ltd., London Road, Harlow, Essex, CM17 9NA, UK *** "Better drowned than duffers. If not duffers, won't drown". *** ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 07:38:21 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Colford Subject: Re: what a surprise! On Tue, 21 Dec 1993 jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu wrote: > WHFS here in DC just played Tribe's "Supercollider"! I think they're one > of those bands I never expected to hear on the radio (which I considered > unfortunate 'cause while I've picked up _Abort_ in Tower for a possible > purchase, I always put it down in favor of something I was _sure_ I > wanted). It's funny, living in the Boston area, where Tribe are from, I hear them on the radio all the time. Sometimes perceptions of bands like that get skewed because they are so popular in their home area yet virtually unknown elsewhere. If you liked _Supercollider_, admittedly an excellent song, my favorite from the new album, then you should definitely pick up their first album, Abort. _Supercollider_ is more in their Abort style. Michael ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 08:02:49 -0500 (EST) From: "she listens like her head's on fire.." Subject: Re: i-girls >At 5:18 pm 21/12/93 -0800, Neal Copperman wrote: >>Steve Fagg, here's one persons opinions on the Indigo Girls: >... comments on individual albums deleted ... >>So, in summary, I say buy in this order >> 1) Rites of Passage >> 2) Indigo Girls >> 3) At this point, it doesn't matter all that much. >Thanks for the suggestions. I recognise several of the titles you >mentioned, I've seen several of their albums in the shops since getting >"Indigo Girls" but not been sure which to go for. I'll be looking out for >"Rites of Passage" in the new year. I have to say I agree with the comments on the above albums. I bought Indigo Girls first and loved it, borrowed Strange Fire from someone and liked that one too but I was disappointed by Nomads, Indians, Saints. So much so that I didn't give Rites of Passage a chance. Last week I borrowed the latter from the library and it blew me away. It was great! The Roche sisters sing backup on alot of songs and just the overall feeling the album, the quality of the songs, is wonderful. When I get money, I'm going to buy it.:-) -Quenby ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 08:13:24 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Colford Subject: Deborah Conway To Australian Ectophiles (or anyone in the know), I was a huge Do-re-mi fan, and I've noticed a couple people mentioning Deborah Conaway's solo album. How does it compare to Do-re-mi material? If it's good, I'll have to use my Australian sources to pick it up for me. Thanks for the info! Michael ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 14:05:44 +0000 From: S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk (Steve Fagg's Mac) Subject: Re: HGP, Scotland At 10:00 am 21/12/93 -0800, Ectophiles Guide wrote: >On Sat, 18 Dec 1993, Albert Philipsen wrote: > >> Neile speaks: >> >> >Oh, sorry, I knew that. I'm trying to tempt her into going back again. >> >Any other ectophiles want to meet up with us there? Beautiful landscape, >> >neolithic tombs, neolithic villages, brochs, castles, a 12th century >> >church with saint Vikings in stained class, a neolithic tomb with Viking >> >graffiti all over the walls, stone circles, standing stones, puffins, >> >seals, skuas, half-sunken ships from the wars, gorgeous rocky beaches... >> >> YES!!! I've always wanted to see all those things, so I'd love to come to >> some kind of gathering of Ectophiles in Scotland. It would be perfect if >> it took place on June 17th, because that's my birthday. :) > >Well, as Steve Fagg pointed out to me, Stromness really is a bit far >north for some people to be able to get the time to meet up with us. We >(Jim and I) are planning right now to get into the UK around June 10 >(we're hoping to fly into Edinburgh, but if it's as much less expensive to >fly to London and take the train north as it usually is, we'll fly into >London. We have to be in Inverness on the 14th, then to Stromness on the >15th. We'll be back in Inverness on the 24th and will spend the rest of >the time messing around Scotland. We're planning to get back home around >July 1. > >So, Albert, we will be in Stromness on your birthday, but it might be >better to meet in Edinburgh either the 12th or 13th or around the 27th. >Any Scottish ectophiles willing to coordinate a meeting? As I've indicated to Neile privately, I'd be keen on doing something in Edinburgh on the 12th or 13th. I'd probably make a weekend of it, do a bit of walking, check out one or two of Edinburgh's excellent restaurants. If we have any Midloathian 'philes it would probably be best if one of you could suggest or offer a venue for a gathering on one of those evenings. The Sunday (12th) might be the best bet. With almost six months' notice we ought to be able to make this happen! -- Regards Steve Fagg ( S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk +44-279-402437 ) BNR Europe Ltd., London Road, Harlow, Essex, CM17 9NA, UK *** "Better drowned than duffers. If not duffers, won't drown". *** ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 14:19 GMT From: dbl@cee.hw.ac.uk (David Lindsay) Subject: Re: Yo! Welcome, Dave! Thank you very much for having me! Hoping you all have a very Happy Chrimbo and a whisky-filled New Year, Mince Pies and Cream, David CU in 1994 ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 09:25:05 -0500 From: gmcdonald@zdi.ziff.com (glenn mcdonald) Subject: Re: Game Theory >If you're exploring the Loud Family (which I haven't heard) and Game >Theory (which I have) angle, you should look into Let's Active too. Let's Active was Mitch Easter (who produced most of the Game Theory/Loud Family albums) and assorted accomplices, none of whom had anything to do with Game Theory themselves. Let's Active's output amounted to this: Afoot (1983 EP) Cypress (1984 LP) Big Plans for Everyone (1986 LP) Every Dog Has His Day (1988 LP) Afoot and Cypress were released on one CD, and the other two were released on CDs as well, but I believe all seven items are firmly out of print by now. I've seen _Big Plans..._ and _Every Dog..._ in cutout bins with some regularity. _Cypress_ is my favorite, _Every Dog..._ my least favorite. That said, I have to disagree with Neal about the relative quality of the two bands. Mitch is a great producer and a talented musician, and I like Let's Active a lot, but Scott Miller, Game Theory and the Loud Family are, in my opinion, a musical force on par with Kate herself. glenn ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 08:55:15 CDT From: Chip Lueck Subject: Looking for....? A coworker of mine heard about the wonderful people on Ecto and their infinite wisdom and wanted me to see if anyone knows where to find the following group. The album name is "Hot and Sweet" and the members of the group were interviewed on NPR (All Things Considered?) probably during the last week of November. The music is in English, Hebrew, Ladino and Yiddish. She'll bake cookies for the 1st person who can find the name for her. :-) Thanks! ======================================================================= Chip Lueck (Jeff) | "The moving walkway is now ending. email: chip-l@nwu.edu | Please look down." PHONE: 708-467-1587 | ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 08:54:50 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: The power of music, NIN, pain, me, religion This post is about a hell of a lot of different things. It just kept growing as I wrote it, with a life of it's own. Michael Colford : > On Tue, 21 Dec 1993, Alex Gibbs wrote: > > > Michael Colford : > > > On Mon, 20 Dec 1993, Anthony Horan wrote: > > > > > > > Past the mission > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > The track that Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails contributes vocals to ... > > > So that's where he's been hiding! This is unbelievable! Trent Reznor > > > is arguably my favorite non-ecto performer! Can't wait to hear it! > > > > Wow! Didn't expect that! I used to love NIN, especially when "Down > > In It" expressed exactly how I felt. Thing is I don't want to feel > > that way anymore so, although I like the music, I can't stand the > > self-worthlessness and emotion I get from the lyrics. > > I know how you feel, Alex, but I think that's what drew me to > NIN's music to begin with. Trent actually sings about alot of > things that we all feel from time to time but don't like to > talk about. Yes, that's what really got me way into NIN in 1991. At first it was the music and intensity. I still think it's great and powerful stuff. Then I really did fall "Down In It", way down in it, and it expressed what I was going through very well; it was my favourite album. I couldn't talk about what I was going through much becuase no one seemed to understand at all, especially doctors, and it helped me release. I even have a color NIN Tee which says "Now I'm Nothing" and had "Down In It" in my .plan back then. But I realized that getting stuck in that mind-set would not help me. Slowly I drifted away from self-destructive influences like that and could no longer listen to it. It's very much a part of my past, and so is still part of me, but it doesn't express what I want to feel now. In some ways I hate it now and I never listen to it yet I couldn't bring myself to sell it either. Sometimes I feel like symbolically breaking it. It's connected to a horrible time in my life. This is more general than NIN. I didn't use to feel it, but I am now more sensitive to the positive/constructive and negative/destructive aspects of various music. Music greatly influences how I feel and too much negative influence isn't good when one is trying to recover. Of course everyone needs to release at times, and denying your feelings is not good, so sometimes you need music like that, but some artists are too self-consumed in their own worthlessness to help others even in that way; they drag a person down further into their world, if even a little, instead of helping the release. We need to express pain and sorrow and hurt but saying that's all there is and "I'll never get out of it" and "now I'm nothing" leads you farther down. What's needed at those times is the acceptance of the shit, the anger, pain of it, and expressing it, to get it out, to make room for something more, something better, even just hope. "Heal It Up" Concrete Blonde _The Red Shoes_ (all of it) For many people this stuff isn't much of an issue I know; the music doesn't affect them that powerfully or deeply. Perhaps I am too sensitive to the music, but you can get so much more from it that way. There is another album I got recently that I can't listen to for the same reason... I can see the self-destructive feelings and views conveyed by the artist too strongly, and can't relate to them at all, although I understand them all too well. (There are many forms of self-destruction. Also, I realize that what an artist conveys isn't necessarily what they feel very often.) I've seen this stuff in others and experienced some things and I really don't want to have it hanging around, which is not to say that denial is right, fighting is. For some it may be what they need at the time though, to know they are not alone in feeling utterly alone, and perhaps in that sense I needed NIN at the time, but I also had to get past it. I suppose it's part of the process. And I do not want that now, I have moved well past that. I have changed in many many ways, including some of my musical tastes. It's been a long, slow, difficult process. Some things are clearer but learning continues, and it should. Yep, there is at least one Christian here (if my sig didn't make it pretty obvious), as someone speculated. I'm of no denomination or organized religion though and believe in some things from other religions as well. It's too personal for such grouping, although I did learn from various places and didn't just make stuff up. I don't intend to try and convert anyone (as Vickie warned against). I'm not like that. Besides that sort of behaviour drives people away, or at least it drives *me* away. The Mormons want to try this on *me* now, but I haven't let them. (If there is a mormon reading this, I'm not judging you; I can't judge something/someone I don't know that much about.) I got where I am by my own searching, _reasoning_, questioning, and wanting to know, not by having it crammed down my throat. I need to build my own understanding to make it strong and I do encourage people to learn about whatever it is they want to learn about. Please do not stereotype me because I will almost definitely not fit any stereotype, especially a Christian stereotype. But this is ecto so I feel fairly safe about that. :) I certainly don't claim to have all the answers about anything. > A vampire novel I am working on at the moment has a > chapter in it that was so inspired by my favorite NIN song, > _Sanctified_. The intensity of his music is electrifying to me. Cool. Yeah, I agree. It's very powerful and hence I think it's very good in a sense but I don't recommend it to anyone anymore. I used to love Metallica too. No longer. Rush (the group, dammit, not the egotistical character!) is fantastic still and I still love Pink Floyd too. (Yes, you're still reading ecto... heh) This particualr music change was before I started back into Christianity, BTW, which hasn't changed my music taste that much in itself, compared to the need for healing, the lowering of my own ego, and the deep realization of my mortality (i.e. no longer feeling invulnerable like when I was younger). Those things are responsible for my changes, including religious change. > Although I must confess, I found his E.P., _Broken_ to be a little > too much for me. I am looking forward to whatever he does next. Yeah, I read the lyrics to _Broken_ from ftp.uwp.edu and I thought "Man, he's really spiraling down into nothingness." I've heard a bit too and I guess it got thrashier too. He is becoming nothing because he wants to, is what it seems like. Hopefully he's in better shape than what he expresses. > Has anyone heard anything? I heard there is something called _Fixed_, at least someone in UK told me about it. He hadn't heard _Pretty Hate Machine_ yet, only _Broken_. I wonder if the title really means a contrast to _Broken_ or not. Well, I rambled, and I realize this doesn't all make complete sense but that's the way it is. I'm *really* tired. --- AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 08:03:39 PST From: tjshadb@ecto.ca.sandia.gov (Troy J. Shadbolt) Subject: back from the dead Hi y'all. It's been a while since I piped up; but basically I'll be really _really_ glad when 1993 is over. _In Hiding_ was axed from KSUH radio because we were wiping out the other shows in the ratings game. The Mass Com students didn't like the fact that a non-student was putting on a show and getting LOTS of responses while their own shows got none. Oh well, it was fun for a month. My poor little dog, Pico, had to leave on 12/16. He was born with a genetic defect that caused his kidneys to be underdeveloped. Poor little guy only got to play for 16 months. I miss him. :-( Just received the new Backroads catalog from Corte Madera; they have another shining blurb for Happy (hehehehehehe, Happy-evangalism at its best) and they are selling all of the albums, problem is they charge $17.98 each plus $3.00 s&h each. They also had a listing for the NEW SHEILA CHANDRA album which sounds interesting, and a couple of others I thought people would like. Note: Sheila used to sing for a group called Monsoon. Tomorrow I'll remember to bring the catalog and type in the reviews. last thing- if in California, be on the look out for a burgundy Mustang Convertible with the license play WARPNT that's ME! troy. ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 09:12:09 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: Re: Excuse me, may I vent for a moment? > I just saw a post on a newsgroup by someone mentioning that a friend had had a > gastric bypass done in order to lose weight. > > BLEAH!!!!!!!!!! I'm sorry, but I think that's *horrible*! In my opinion, if Eeeeee! Man, that's extreme. Did you know that one of the people in the last MTV _Real World_ chose to have her jaw wired shut for a couple weeks (don't remember exact length, but it seemed *way* too unhealthily long) so she would be forced to lose weight! --- AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 11:19:08 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Colford Subject: Re: The power of music, NIN, pain, me, religion Alex, Thanks for your post, I agree with just about everything you said. I'm glad you've climbed out of whatever negativity was consuming you. I understand perfectly how some music, and NIN particularly could be easy to get too negatively wrapped up in. Ironically, _Down in it_ almost precisely mirrored a situation I was going through at the time. I am pretty lucky to have been blessed with a disgustingly positive attitude toward life. (I'm serious, I feel blessed to have this attitude as it can be rather transcending at times). I have had to deal with some intensely negative things in the past (between health/family/gay issues) but have been able to maintain a fairly consistant positive outlook. Music helps alot. I used NIN more as a powerful groove release than a mirror to my situation. The healing power of music is far more important. Anything of beauty really. Almost anything that can move me to tears heals me a little (and that's alot). Kate's _Watching you without me_, Jane Siberry's _The Walking (& Constantly_), even Caterwaul's _Small thing is heaven_ are just a small sampling of music that does it for me, and there is so much more. While I love NIN, its for a more visceral reason, and I can keep from begin too caught up in it. Anyway, I've rambled somewhat incoherently, but thanks again for the post. You're a fascinating guy and really interesting to get to know. Stay positive! Michael ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 11:29:51 EST From: @rutvm1.rutgers.edu:JLUECK@NUACVM.ACNS.NWU.EDU To continue the thread of amusing Christmas tales.... Here's one that reminds me of a Mitch post. ;-) -chip A VISIT FROM ST. NICHOLAS (Government Bureaucrat Edition) 'Twas the nocturnal segment of the diurnal period preceding the annual yule-tide celebration, and throughout our place of residence, kinetic activity was not in evidence among the possessors of this potential, including that species of domestic rodent known as Mus Musculus. Hosiery was meticulously suspended from the forward edge of the wood- burning caloric apparatus, pursuant to our anticipatory pleasure regarding an imminent visitation from an eccentric philanthropist among whose folkloric appellations is the honorific title of St. Nicholas. The prepubescent siblings, comfortably ensconced in their respective accommodations of repose, were experiencing subconscious visual hallucinations of variegated fruit confections moving rhythmically through their cerebra. My conjugal partner and I, attired in our nocturnal cranial coverings, were about to take slumbrous advantage of the hibernal darkness when upon the avenaceous exterior portion of the grounds there ascended such a cacophony of dissonance that I felt compelled to arise with alacrity from my place of repose for the purpose of ascertaining the precise source thereof. Hastening to the casement, I forthwith opened the barriers sealing the fenestration, noting thereupon that the lunar brilliance without, reflected as it was on the surface of a recent crystalline precipitation, might be said to rival that of the solar meridian itself -- thus permitting my incredulous optical sensor to percieve a miniature airborne runnered conveyance drawn by eight diminutive specimens of the genus Rangifer, piloted by a miniscule, aged chauffeur so ebullient and nimble that it became instantly apparent to me that he was indeed our anticipated caller. With his undulate motive power traveling at what may possibly have been more vertiginous velocity than patriotic alar predators, he vociferated loudly, expelled breath musically through contracted labia, and addressed each of the octet by his or her respective cognomen... "Now Dasher, now Dancer..." et al -- guiding them to the uppermost exterior level of our abode, through which structure I could readily distinguish the concatenations of each of the 32 cloven pedal extremities. As I retracted my cranium from its erstwhile location, and was performing a 180-degree pivot, our distinguished visitant achieved -- with utmost celerity and via a downward leap -- entry by way of the smoke passage. He was clad entirely in animal pelts soiled by the ebon residue from the oxidations of carboniferous fuels which had accumulated on the walls thereof. His resemblance to a street vendor I attributed largely to the plethora of assorted playthings which he bore dorsally in a commodious cloth receptacle. His orbs were scintillant with reflected luminosity, while his submaxillary dermal indentations gave every evidence of engaging amiability. The capillaries of his molar regions and nasal aptenance were engorged with blood which suffused the subcutaneous layers, the former approximating the coloration of Albion's floral emblem, the latter that of the Prunus avium, or sweet cherry. His amusing sub- and supralabials resembled nothing so much as a common loop knot, and their ambient hirsuite facial adornment appeared like small, tabular and columnar crystals of frozen water. Clenched firmly between his incisors was a smoking piece whose gray fumes, forming a tenuous ellipse about his occiput, were suggestive of a decorative seasonal circlet of holly. His visage was wider than it was high, and when he waxed audibly mirthful, his corpulent abdominal region undulated in the manner of impectinated fruit syrup in a hemispherical container. Without utterance and with dispatch, he commenced filling the aforementioned hosiery with articles of merchandise extracted from his aforementioned previously dorsally transported cloth receptacle. Upon completion of this task, he executed an abrupt about-face, placed a single manual digit in lateral juxtaposition to his olfactory organ, inclined his cranium forward in a gesture of leave-taking, and forthwith affected his egress by renegotiating (in reverse) the smoke passage. He then propelled himself in a short vector onto his conveyance, directed a musical expulsion of air through his con- tracted oral sphincter to the antlered quadrupeds of burden, and proceeded to soar aloft in a movement hitherto observable chiefly among the seed-bearing portions of a common weed. But I overheard his parting exclamation, audible immediately prior to his vehiculation beyond the limits of visibility: "Ecstatic yuletides to the planetary constituence, and to that self- same assemblage my sincerest wishes for a salubriously beneficial and gratifyingly pleasurable period between sunset and dawn." ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)