Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #925 ecto, Number 925 Tuesday, 21 December 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Heady times for zapatorojophiliacs/Funny beer/And other stories Re: I've Got Ewes Under My Skins (My Lips are Sealed) stuff Top 10 of '93 Top 10 of '93, Take Two Response to delurking and depression; and more The whole food thing temporarily offline vindication! with apologies to john sandoval ;) Ewes, kangaroos, yothus, and , uh, dictionaries ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 18:05:45 CST From: Excellence in obscurantism Subject: Heady times for zapatorojophiliacs/Funny beer/And other stories I am getting a late start today on posting this, for several reasons. I got bogged down trying to bring myself up to speed on the latest flame war on that other occupant of cyberspace, on which more later. But most importantly, I got bogged down trying to find a genuine word for "red shoe fetishists," going so far to consult Krafft-Ebing from 1905, before being reduced to making one up myself. (The available foreign language dictionaries where I am were lim- ited to French, German, Spanish, and a couple of Slavic languages; I settled on Spanish for reasons that may or not return to me in the middle of the night a long time from now.) My reasons for going through all that may become lucid soon. At 2:20 AM Saturday night, I awoke from trying to monitor the Christmas edition of _Blues Before Sunrise_ on WBEZ for the inimitable "Santa Claus Is Smokin' Reefer"--an enterprise which I'd dozed off on anyway--to see if JBTV had run the interview with Kate yet. It was just about to get under way. I noted with interest the clips from her film based on the "Red Shoes" fairy tale, and the "Eat the Music" video. The latter somehow reminded me of something I'd read years ago on the making of the Kinsey Report, how one of the research team used to listen to the interviews through the closed door to the next room. In one case, the interviewer--who had a passion for fresh fruit--overindulged in the latter, and this had its side effects. He bolted from the room, only to reveal the colleague monitoring the proceedings. These things happen in sci- ence :-). The interviewer ended the interview by inviting Kate to come to Chicago some time. The thought hit me that such a visit would not be complete without doing Gaffa Central. Then they did a video by the guest host's band, which was a very interesting approach to Motown covers. Finally, he was taken on a tour of their studio, and the host said he'd taken Liz Phair on the same tour earlier. I tuned out, wishing I could have caught that episode, and went back to radio. I ultimately called the station, and was told the song I was look- ing for was not on the playlist. These things happen. The next day, Channel 50 happened to run _Hans Christian Andersen_ with Danny Kaye, and it has some kind of balletic interlude, but it wasn't the Red Shoes. Today's paper has a panning review of a Broadway musical into which the original Red Shoes movie has been made. It really was a good weekend for Red Shoes (of whatever kind) fetishists, was it not? :-) In the 60s, a wonderful and long-extinct magazine called _Evergreen Review_ ran a cartoon in which a man urinates into a goblet, looks at it, and says "That's funny, looks just like beer." He then tastes the stuff, and says "Funny beer." I often think of that cartoon when I hear the word "Brouhaha," or as Bob Lovejoy spelt it in these pages, brew-ha-ha. It seems especially apt WRT the latest Gaffa flame war. As always, I'm not altogether sure what the madman was driving at, but the subject lines "an occasion for self-______" gave me the idea that the Perfect Squelch in such situations would be to send email with the subject line "An occasion for self-intromission." :-) (Think about it for awhile, and it may sink in.) WRT D^2's appeal for advice on what to do about Rush: Would any serious comm- entator actually expect the audience to believe that Mr. Snerdley is real? Personally, I think the man's ideas are nonsense, but he's always amusing to listen to. WRT Holly's medical epic: One can begin to understand why after ending up with a sore shoulder after a household mishap last week, as long as it's generally getting better, I don't bother calling my HMO for an appointment, at which my doctor would get distracted by an obsession with my blood pressure (actually raised by his fussing over it) and cholesterol before getting around to dealing with my immediate problem. Diane wonders: |> I haven't been able to respond to everybody because my supervisors |> suspect I'm doing something fishy here. Alot of time on e-mail. Do |> people post from home computers or you work for yourselves or you have |> cool supervisors who don't care or you're students who are at the |> terminal 24 hours/day anyway, or other? I think actually, there are some of each on this list. Kjetil makes lutefisk sound a lot better than Garrison Keillor does. I probably could make an ecto party at Gaffa Central on the afternoon of the 26th. That spoof on the 12 days of Xmas sounds like a pithier version of one the BBC did, which the _Midnight Special_ is wont to run during the season. Welcoming David Lindsay to the fold. Given the interest in travel to Scotland among some members of this list, anyone with practical knowledge is helpful to have among us. The same goes for anyone with no practical knowledge of Scotland at all :-). Gotta fly. Mitch ======================================================================== From: brianb@netcom.com (Brian Bloom) Subject: Re: I've Got Ewes Under My Skins (My Lips are Sealed) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 16:06:23 -0800 (PST) Well, if we view this as a "survey" rather than a "discussion", I think it's safe for each person to express their views. My view is that food raised above-and-beyond the bounty of nature can be consumed without guilt. I.e. If man had not existed there would be, say 1000 cows. Man breeds an extra 50, then those 50 are fine for food. I don't think that in todays' modern society that furs are needed for warmth (at least not for those with internet access. :) So I don't see a motivation for expensive furs. If there was an *adequate* replacement, i'd pro'lly not wear leather. So that's me in a nutshell. happy holidays all, br!an -- __ ____ __ ____ __ __ (__==__) /\ \ / \_\ / /\ / \ \ / |\ / /\ (oo) ( moo.) / \_\ / /\ |_| / / /| /\ \ \ / ||/ / / /-------\/ -' / /\ | |\ \/ /_/_ / / / \ \/ \ \ / |/ / / / | U.T.|| / \/ |_| \ __ \_\ /_/ / \ /\ \_\ / /| / / * ||----|| / /\ ./_/ \ \ \/_/_\_\/ \ \ \/_// / | / / ^^ ^^ \ \/ |_| \ \_\ /_/\ \ \_\ /_/ /|_/ / Br!an Bloom \__/_/ \/_/ \_\/ \/_/ \_\/ \_\/ brianb@netcom.com .. but music hides me so well, ..and reveals me.. oh well - HR ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 19:29:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Suspended In Duct Tape Subject: stuff Hi! The musical "The Red Shoes" will close this week, after barely a full week of performances. (The month of previews didn't count.) According to the New York Times, it's one of the most expensive Broadway failures in history. Ouch. Let me take this moment to point out that there are few musical moments more cathartic (or bizarre) than the Charivari in a medieval French Fool's Mass. I'm indulging in my yearly Solstice listening of the Berry Hayward Consort's _La Messe des Fous_ a night early this year, since I won't be around tomorrow. This was a Mass sung by the commoners on either the Solstice or the Feast of Fools, depending, which lampooned the rites of the Mass and engendered some truly wonderful music- the Berry Hayward Consort's interpretation is particul- arly haunting. I strongly urge you all to seek this one out in your local good classical music store: it's out on BNL Productions, # 112746. I think it's still in print. (Gotta love the 14th century... sigh...) Oh- you may be wondering what the hell a Charivari is. It's the 30 seconds or so of total bombastic freakout that happens about halfway through the Fool's Mass, during which time everybody bangs on whatever comes to hand and shouts very loudly. Wakes you up, that's for sure! :> Meredith ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 19:42:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Suspended In Duct Tape Subject: Top 10 of '93 Hi! Now it's time for me to join the fray... here's my top 10 albums of 1993. (Two of these were actually released in 1991 and 1992 respectively, but I didn't hear them until this year, so in my mind they qualify.) 10.) Laura Love, _Pangaea_ I've mentioned this album here before- self-styled as "Afro-Celtic Grunge" (imo without the grunge!), Love invents her own genre with style. She has a pretty, sometimes nasal voice that works with the music in the back- ground, socially aware lyrics that don't hit you over the head, and infectious beats and melodies that refuse to leave your head. A find! 9.) Happy Rhodes, _Equipoise_ Not her best album, but a remarkable display of musical and lyrical growth. 8.) Tribe, _Sleeper_ What can I say, except it's wonderful stuff. "Alternative" but kinda poppy, edgy and always fun. These folks are going places, and this is the album that's starting them on their way. 7.) Kate Bush, _The Red Shoes_ As a pop album, this blows the socks off all but 6 records to come out this year. As a Kate Bush album it really rather sucks, but that's all relative. "Lily", "The Red Shoes", and "Big Stripey Lie" save it for me, and I really do hope it breaks Kate for real in the States- the law of averages states that some of the people who are introduced to her through this album will go on to discover her other material and be hooked for life. 6.) The Moon Seven Times, _The Moon Seven Times_ Like someone else (Jeffy?) said, it's Area done one better. Great stuff. 5.) Ingrid Karklins, _A Darker Passion_ I don't need to do much describing to you all. I cannot WAIT for her second album, which I believe she was to begin recording this fall. Laurie Anderson falls down a manhole in Riga, and Ingrid Karklins emerges. Wow. 4.) Heidi Berry, _Heidi Berry_ The quintessential autumnal album. Rich vocals over a layer of guitars and strings and wonderful lyrics form songs that just make you want to wrap your arms around yourself and make little contented noises. I'm giving this one to my parents for Christmas- they'll love it. 3.) Bjork, _Debut_ When it came out, I said it was the album of the year. That was before... ...2.) Jane Siberry, _When I Was A Boy_ ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 19:48:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Suspended In Duct Tape Subject: Top 10 of '93, Take Two Hi again... See, we have this little wiring problem in my apartment that makes my phone line go dead every time my roommates' answering machine turns on. Nobody else is home this evening, so every time the phone rings downstairs that means I have about 25 seconds before I get knoked off line, or hang up on whomever I'm talking to, or whatever. And tonight, for some reason, that goddamn phone down there is ringing off the hook. ANYWAY, as I was saying before I was so rudely interrupted... 2.) Jane Siberry, _When I Was A Boy_ Brilliant. A spiritual journey with love as a guide, Brian Eno as co-producer on some of the strongest tracks, and lyrics comprised of heart-wrenching, beautiful poetry. Words cannot adequately describe this work of genius. When this came out, I proclaimed it album of the year. Little did I know what else would come into my hands before the year was through: 1.) Sarah McLachlan, _Fumbling Towards Ecstasy_ I've gone on and on about this album, so let me just say that Sarah is a f*cking goddess, and leave it at that, okay? ;) So there you have it, my 1993 Top Ten Albums (in two acts, with a brief intermission). Honorable mentions go to: Dead Can Dance, _Into The Labyrinth_ Aimee Mann, _Whatever_ Cranes, _Forever_ 10,000 Maniacs, _Unplugged_ Happy Rhodes, _Rhodesongs_ The Story, _The Angel in the House_ Let's hope '94 is as awesome a year for music as this one was! Meredith meth@delphi.com ======================================================================== From: Mike Matthews Subject: Re: I've Got Ewes Under My Skins (My Lips are Sealed) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 21:05:26 -0500 (EST) Vickie boasts: > Another interesting thread that I've been reading and enjoying, but > not responding to...another interesting thread that would cause massive > flame wars just about anywhere else...I'm so proud of Ectophiles! Guess that means we just don't have a cow around here, huh? (Hope that pun hasn't already been used; haven't seen it yet, but I've been skimming lately) [Jeff: you can't save punches for future use. Against the rules.] I've got no clear views on the subject. There are some moral questions I've got about the whole thing, but I'm a rather big hypocrite about it. I *like* my leather jacket, and I like meat too. > Vickie ------ Mike Matthews, Mike_Matthews@sgate.com (NeXTmail accepted) ------ ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 01:32:37 -0500 From: Jeremy Corry Subject: Response to delurking and depression; and more RE all the recent talk of depression, fitting in, relating to aliens, Happy's music and so forth: I am listening to one of my favorite CDs, and I realized how well this song describes my feelings/experiences on the same topics: [I'd like to dedicate this to Vickie, who we all love despite not having met] ---------------------------------------------------- MOONCHILD by Shakespeare's Sister on Hormonally Yours birds can fly and fish can swim but on this planet where do I fit in? I could be in trouble or just imagining sometimes I feel like an alien I make them laugh I make them stare but mr. jones said, "hey young girl don't you feel sorry for yourself the worlds out there" there's a moonchild in everyone, oh little moonchild you're not the only one! I looked at the world from another star that's when you discover who you really are so if you think you'd like the taste you know there's not much time to waste so take off into outer space I'll see your there! ------------------------------------------------------- Very unfortunately, this band has broken up. Guess why? Because Marcella Detroit has this severe problem with depression, and can't seem to stay out of the hospital. She loves not fitting in, so I'm willing to she's the impetus behind this song. ============= Jeff: What do you have against thin men? Weight and body image can be a problem for those who feel to thin or too fat. Actually I'm not very attracted to thin men either, despite being one. But I do not have the heterosexuality excuse that someone else used. ============= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeremy J. Corry | Only Men Accepting Feminism jcorry@erasure-sl.cc.emory.edu (NeXT) | Get Kissed Meaningfully jcorry@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu (unix) | -- Geoff Marcy | __ My opinions are my own, but I probably got them from someone else. \/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 22:54:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Suspended In Duct Tape Subject: The whole food thing Hi! I, for one, enjoy my position on top of the food chain, but I'm not going to slag anyone for choosing not to be omnivorous if they just don't want to. I can see where people would have problems with certain things, and I have thought about many of those issues myself. I tend to stay away from veal unless I know it had a happy short little life, I buy nest eggs at the super- market whenever I can, that sort of thing. I've never had a problem with leather though, since I can only assume the rest of the cow ended up on my grill at some point- if anyone has concrete evidence to refute this please let me know. I'd hate to have based my rationalization on misinformation. :} The only problem I have is with blatant hypocrisy, as in the case of a friend of mine from college who decided one day to become a complete vegan, yet kept his car with the leather seats and his suede boots and whined bitterly come Thanksgiving that he was missing out on all the fun. When questioned about this he became quite defensive, and asserted that he *was* vegan and proceeded to go into exactly why in great detail, without coming close to answering the question I had asked him, which was "Why the leather and the bitching about Thanksgiving, then?" My point then, as it is now, is that it's fine to do something if your convictions are strong, but don't do it just because it seems like a good thing to do, even if you really don't believe in it yourself. Meredith meth@delphi.com ======================================================================== From: ezust@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca (Alan Ezust) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 23:24:32 -0500 Subject: temporarily offline Dear Ectophiles, While I am travelling around, I know my e-mail is going to be piling up something fierce, so I will have to unsubscribe until January 5th. I will still be reading e-mail from time to time, but I won't have enuf time to sort through mailing-list mail... If there is anything relevant to events in Montreal or Boston or myself, please send me an individual message... happy holidays, and see you all next year!! -- | Alan Ezust ezust@{binkley.}cs.mcgill.ca Montreal, Quebec, Canada | |------------- McGill University School of Computer Science ----------------| "Recursion is a lot like recursion... only a little simpler." -Alan Ezust ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 23:54:11 EST From: woj@remus.rutgers.edu (the dark saxophone) Subject: vindication! and you thought that the woj family turkey thing was weird... >WEIRDNUZ.304 (News of the Weird, December 3, 1993) >by Chuck Shepherd > >Eh-uuuuuuh, Gross > >* A 25th wedding anniversary party was disrupted in >Webster, Mass., in November when 20 people were >hospitalized because the chicken-gizzards-and-bananas >dish, which is a Puerto Rican delicacy, spoiled. >[Albuquerque Journal-AP, 11-15-93] (why a massachusetts event was reported in an albuquerque newspaper is beyond me.) +woj ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 23:55:27 EST From: woj@remus.rutgers.edu (the dark saxophone) Subject: with apologies to john sandoval ;) >NASA has found that the repairs made to the Hubble Space >Telescope were not as successful as they first thought. >Someone forgot to remove the lens cap. > >-- >Ed Symanzik >Michigan State University >zik@enoch.cl.msu.edu john, you can abuse the originator of that joke, if you'd like. ;) +w ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 20:58:31 PST From: Neal Copperman Subject: Ewes, kangaroos, yothus, and , uh, dictionaries |> Don't lose a minute's sleep over me and my opinions. If some insufferable |> yuppy scum can wake up after a sound sleep and put on his genuine, oh I |> don't know, kangaroo boots, and still feel good about himself, then, great, |> let him....until his buying habits have an impact on our shared ecosystem, |> and suddenly there are no more kangaroos, just 'cause some shallow asshole |> wanted his feet to look neat. So in this framework, is it ok to wear kangaroo boots so long as you occasionally eat kangaroo? I figure occasionally is probably ok, since I doubt you eat enough cow to justify the jacket :) How about the abundance of the critters? Seems to me animal population (plus degrees of cuteness) are the key elements defining the number of people who get upset at an animals death. (Or other key elements, since I agree with the waste comments to.) |>I find the wearing of $7500 fox furs excessive |> and vain and, in an inter-species context, just plain tacky. Not trying to be nasty or anything, but is it the indulgance that's at issue here, or the animal itself? If a fox fur coat cost as little as a leather jacket, would it then be less excessive, and less disgusting? It seems a number of the comments were aimed more at ostentatious wealth than animal rights. Was there much news in Chicago about your recently aquired dolphins (or is that porpoises)? Out here, there was much uproar and attempts at blockades to prevent the Chicago Aquarium from successfully catching 3 dolphins. The blockade worked very poorly, and the dolphins were captured, and I have seen paid ads run in the newspapers saying how horible the whole thing is and how we should all write to the Chicago Aquarium and complain. YOTHU YINDI - Not well informed about there background, but I did see them in concert and they were quite spectacular. It was a strange night for the 9:30 club in DC. When I got there, Ghost of an American Airman was playing and everyone was sitting on the floor. Something I'd never seen there before, and something I am not sure I would consider, having been to the club before. Oh yeah, and the lead singer was standing on his head while singing, and doing a fine job of both. Next up were YY, and they filled the stage, clad only in loinclothes and with their faces and bodies painted. They had dancers with them, and the atmosphere was electric. The native instruments they used and all the bodies jumping around in the dark, it was all very tribal feeling. I had heard descriptions of lutefisk in the past, and thought it was soaked in lye, or something nasty like that. I could never help but think of it as ludicrous (or ludifish). Mitch - we have a number of very bizarre dictionaries in our library here, so if you want something looked up, I'd be happy to. (Urdu, Persian, Arabic, Magyar Angol(?), Italian, Greek, RUssian [ok, some of these are represented on Ecto anyway]). Neal ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)