Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #915 ecto, Number 915 Wednesday, 15 December 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* More Year-End favorites Whew, mondo catch-up time! :-) ectopics Re: Deep Forest's "Sweet Lullaby" & have DCD :) RE: Maybe and Calculus Re: mythology Weight that time, eh? MY GOD: an eddi reader fan! Maori Meat, Sacred Cows, Fetish-wear ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Dec 93 15:15:20 PST From: hanson@ast.saic.com (Jeffrey Hanson) Subject: More Year-End favorites Well, my criteria would be that I would have had to buy the CD during this year (unfortunately that precludes Happy--so far anyway), so here goes --I'll try to keep it short and sweet: 1. Jane Siberry--When I was A Boy --didn't really like it at first, but one day something clicked and it just all fell into place. Been listening to it regularly ever since. Absolutely brilliant! 2. Sarah Brightman - Dive. I realize a lot of people think Sarah is complete over-rated and I would have to agree, at least logically. But this album just sounds great, excellent production and I find it has rarely left my CD changer. Best however as background. If I listen too closely I realizer how poor most of the lyrics are, but I still love her voice, even though technically it could be better. 3. Kate Bush - The Red Shoes. I never thought a Kate album could place so low. I do love the album, but it just hasn't touched me emotionally. I love it because its Kate, and its great to hear her from her again, but the actual material just doesn't move me nearly as much as I expected it would. 4. Maria McKee - You Gotta Sin to Be Saved. Maria has always been a personal favorite of mine and this album is consistent throughout. Not a bad song on it, but unfortunately no outstanding ones either. 5. Debby Harry - Debravation -- Another personal favorite. This album has more variety than any album I know of. Ranging from rap, rock, 50's pop, to dance, and even some country twang, it has a little bit of everything. Unfortunately, it has a little too much. Sounds like she put everything she'd recorded on it rather than selecting the best. And at almost an hour, 3 or 4 of the worst could easily have been left off. 6. Bryan Ferry - Taxi -- The only male to make the list. This album is much like Sarah Brightman's, smooth and makes great background music. No particular songs standout, but a strong consistent album nonetheless. 7. The Cranberries - Everybody Else Is Doing It, so WHy Cant We? Best new artist of the year in my book. But how come it always takes MTV at least 6 months after I buy an album before they Break them? They did it with both the Cranberries and Belly this year. Oh well, what do I expect. Maybe next September they'll really start pushing Kate, and telling everyone how they're the ones who play the new groups first. (Like they did with Siouxsie on the Peep Show album--it was like, excuse me? I've been listening them for almost ten years now--I don't think they're new. Same for Red Hot Chili Peppers, etc, etc, etc.) Maybe if this 500 channel TV ever really happens we'll actually get a music television channel again. Maybe there will even be an EctoTV. (I can dream can't I?) Oops, I said I was going to try to keep this short. Ahem. 8. Aimee Mann - Whatever LIke Neil said, a great album, consistent throughout, and she was a delight to see in concert. 9. Clannad--Banba, and Maire Brennan--Maire -- If I could take my favorites off each I could make an album I truly love. As it is there are a few gems on each with quite a few duds. 10. Lena Horne - Stormy Lady -- A drag queen actually turned me on (I should probably watch how I say this) to Lena Horne, and I went out and found this one for $8.99. Just goes to prove that great female vocalists are nothing new. Fun album with a great collection of songs. And I have the added benefit of picturing a great drag queen (and one of the nicest people you could know) lip-synching her heart out to Stormy Weather. She also does an incredible Cher, but that's another story. Other hopefuls for receiving by year-end are the Eurythmics Live, and the Kim Wilde Single Collection. Honorble mentions to Cocteau Twins Dead Can Dance, and Kirsty MacColl, but frankly none of them have connected with me enough yet to make the list. Oh well, hope I haven't put anyone to sleep. ======================================================================== Subject: Whew, mondo catch-up time! :-) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 05:30:34 From: anthony@xymox.apana.org.au (Anthony Horan) Hi all... I've been silent just about everywhere on the net for about a week now, due to overwhelming work commitments, but I at last have found the time to catch up on Ecto; some three hundred loose messages! Jens spent the last couple of days in Melbourne; unfortunately, his visit coincided with what is now being described by the press as the worst freak storm to hit Melbourne this decade! We saw the storm, or rather, a wall of water and nothing else, from the 35th floor of the super-swank Regent Hotel, where we anoyed them immeasuarbly by ordering merely one beer each. :) Anyone visiting Melbourne must check out the Cool Toilets in the Regent, by the way... :-) This was my first time as a Tour Guide, and I'll get it right next time. Hopefully, so will the weather...! Vickie quotes Jeff: > > I've tuned in a bit late, and found two of my favorite artists on tour > > (Aimee Mann and Jane Siberry). Does anyone have an up-to-date tour date > > list? > > I know nothing about Aimee Mann, but I can tell you that the Jane shows > are all over. She only played 5 cities in the USA, London and the > Christmas show in Toronto. Hopefully she'll do something more extensive > in the future, but I have no information on any such thing. I HAVE NEWS! I mentioned here a while back, when I did my Jane interview, that she'd said she might be coming out for "a festival" in Australia in 1994. Well, *it's confirmed!!!*. Jane Siberry will perform on Wednesday February 16th at the CUB Malhouse Theater in Melbourne as part of the Melbourne Music Festival. And guess what? I work Wednesday nights. Argh. Neil in fire control mode (glad all is OK!) reports: > (Holly@umbc2.umbc.edu) has been mercilessly hit by a particularly > virulent strain of flu and is not happy. :( I think she needs hugs and > blue warm fuzzy thoughts! I've sent Holly my patented (and highly compressable, with the right algorithm!) anti-flu vibes. They never fail! :-) *HUG*, Holly! Meanwhile, Ian seperates the stats - twice! > Nov * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > 1966 * * * * * * * * * * * * * I win! Twice!!!!!!! :-) Michael Colfordises: > Hey, to everyone else! I just heard the new Crowded house > single on WFNX, my local alternative station. Good song - > didn't hear the title. Probably "Nails In My Feet". It's a wonderful album, by the way - I think possibly the best work Neil Finn has done yet. And speaking of New Zealand, Philip Sainty writes: > I have a few notes about things I ought to say on ecto that I haven't > gotten around to yet... > > 7) 42 See that door? I hate that door. > 8) Oooh! Could somebody suggest a good first Tribe album? (Philip is > gathering a ridiculously large CD-want list as Christmas approaches :):):) Abort. It's out locally in NZ thru Festival. Sleeper *might* be, no-one seems to know for sure! I like Abort better, anyway... > 9) (better make it the last one) Anyone for IRC? (I'll be popping on and Waaah! Our local irc server, at ANU, is down and doesn't look like being up any time soon. I formed an #ecto channel on the admittedly out-of-stream sci.dixie.edu, but no-one appeared. :-| Anyone know any full IRC servers that accept a /server connection from outside? (US preferably, Australia or NZ, even better...!) Joe Zitteratizerises: > Another somewhat Ectoid connection: Chavez is married to British > singer David Sylvian, who (beside his own work) has sung with Robert > Fripp, Japan, Rain Tree Crow, and Ryuichi Sakomoto (at whose > "Heartbeat" recording he met Chavez). I can out-trivia you! Ingrid also sings/speaks on the Sylvian/Fripp album. And Mr Sylvian, you have good taste in poets. :-) Tim Cooks up a storm at the EctoFest I would have IRC'd to if our server was up; > We had fuzzy blue drinks and fuzzy blue rocket fuel (made with tequila) and > peanut butter flavoured munchies and managed to listen to some Happy this > time! We also listened to Margot Smith and watched lots of video clips. You listened to Margot! OK, that's it, I now want comments from all who were present! :-) And I'm still waiting for your review, Tim... :-)) Michael Bravo bravely adds to a multi-lingual Christmas greeting; > > I'm probably going to get this wrong but here goes!!! > > Weihnachten froh > > Wesoly Boze narodzenie > > Kerstmis blij > > Noel content > > Navidad feliz > > Natale lieto > > Schastlivogo rozhdestva :) Ummm... Unccl Puevfgznf Rpgb! :-) woj is BACK! (I didn't know he'd gone! :-) > hello all. seems like i was smart to ask jessica to unsub me from ecto > while i was gone - in the short time that i've been back on the list, > it already seems more active than when i left (and that was only two It has gotten busy. I'm not complaining, this is my second home. BTW, woj - did you get the CD I sent? I would have waited if I'd known you were away... I hope you got it OK. Greg O'Rearsearches: > I thought I had the store stumped at one point, but then I found more than > what I was looking for: two Mick Karn CDs (one I hadn't seen in 6 years, the > other a limited edition of 10000). They even had a Sheila Chandra CD. But > no Monsoon, no Margot Smith, no rare Tori stuff, and just the usual Kate. You want me to send you a full Margot discography with catalogue numbers so they can order her CDs in? :-) (I hope that Mick Karn one wasn't the one with "Sensitive" on it. Ugh, that singing!) >From a posting by The Duchess, err Goddess Of York... errr, Sarah.... > > I saw that you're moving up here. Welcome to the Bay Area! I'm not sure I'd > > call Mountain View SF area, though - it's 40 miles from SF, and only 10 from > > San Jose. > > Well, I plan to be commuting to sf often, and, 40 miles is short! :) I miss the Bay Area!!!!! (Just had to get that out... :-) Holly makes my day yet again... > Paper. Paper. Paper. Paper. I *love* paper. Oh, > yes yes yes, I love paper, and how! Paper. More > paper. Lots and lots and lots of paper. Paper > paper paper everywhere. Holly, I *love* your postings. I save your postings. They have their own directory - XDOCS:Holly. :-) I want you to write for the magazine I write for. Or write a book. Or something. :^) **HUG** Codemeister Uli fixes a bug: > I've got hold of a second program that produces the Partridge song's lyrics. > But first a few comments on the old one: It worked! SAS/C compiled it without any problem! Now, to design a Workbench interface for it... :-) Angelos begs: > Angelos (help me name my Performa 475/Quadra 605/LC 475 or whatever it is > that Apple calls the machine I got :)) I think you should call it Kenneth. Kenneth Komputer. Or not. :-) Anthony Baxter (nice storm, wasn't it!) Melbournises: > I also picked up Margot Smith's 'Sleeping With The Lion'. I'll try to do > a detailed review of it sometime soon and send it to ecto. Looking forward to it!!! Those on my Margot mailing list, yes, the interview transcript is coming - it's about half done but I got swamped. Hopefully by the weekend. I am not a very fast typist! Bob Lovejoy reports: > The news from Mt. Zion hospital continues to be encouraging. It looks > like my mom is out of the woods. Whew! Bob, that's wonderful - I missed the entire series of posts while I was away and tonight I see the whole story played out before me. I'll continue to send fuzzy thoughts SF-wards... > In more ecto-related news, WXPN played Mae Moore yesterday and I was Nice, isn't it? It grows on you with every listen. If you like Mae, you'll *love* Margot's album (recorded in the same studio at around the same time by the same producer!). > impressed quite favorably. However, I got to thinking that I'd love to hear > a duet with her and MC 900 ft. Jesus. Somehow I think that would be a neat MC 900 Ft Jesus and Mae Moore? Wow. (Drags out "Killer Inside Me"). THAT would be a STRANGE record! :-) The announcement of the year, and I miss it...! > Mr. and Mrs. D.A. Dallas would like to announce the engagement of their > daughter.. > > Courtney M. Dallas > > to > > Kirstin A. Hargie > > daughter of.. > > Mr. and Mrs. J. Hargie Courtney and Kiri - My rather belated but no less celebratory and rather generally fuzzy and happy congratulations!!!!!! Who is... David Dixon? says: > Did better than I did, at least. I found all *three* daily doubles, > and only got one right. At least that's what I remember; a lot of the > game is a fuzzy haze. > > I also missed the Final Jeopardy; in fact, no one got it right. Some > consolation, but it still sucks to lose. One thing I *did* find on the IRC server at sci.dixie.edu is a channel called #jeopardy, which contains a bot that simulates Alex Trebek called AlexBot. Yep, live, multi-country Jeopardy! Good practise for future contestants, which won't be me - they've cancelled the Australian version. Apparently the audience just didn't understand it. :-\ That's (phew!) all from me - it's wonderful to be back! Especially Vickie's post from a few days back, and the ones that followed it - you're all wonderful, extremely large *HUG*'s to you all...! Anthony -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony Horan, Melbourne Australia - anthony@xymox.apana.org.au "I kind of feel like I'm Metallica..." - Tori Amos on the perils of long tours, November 1992 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Dec 93 19:25:15 EST From: woj@remus.rutgers.edu (the dark saxophone) Subject: ectopics wandered into a mall last night while whiling away the time between work and volleyball last night thinking that i might get some christmas shopping done. hah. i ended up buying myself more presents than others. the prime presents were three cd singles: jane sibbery's "temple," the us "rubber- band girl" and the latest breeders single. of course, the cd player is *still* broken so i've not listened to them yet. sigh. one of these days, i'm going to get home from work earlier enough to bring it over to a shop to get it repaired.... anyways.... neilg@sfu.ca sez: >Kate Bush or Peter Gabriel, but Spirit of the West are reasonably >well-known in Canada, and are a *darn* good band to boot. (for those >who are wondering, I don't think I'd consider 'em ectofodder. aww, c'mon...ectofodder is, i would hope, anything that anyone of us consdiers good. heck, if angelos and i can trade quips about einstur- zende neubauten, spirit of the west certainly can be discussed and praised here! (incidentially, i'll add here that i agree with neil's comments on that band - i'm not as familiar with them as i'd like to be, but maybge someday). jmg@rocket.com (Jim Gurley) sez: >Anybody else got a skipped work tale? only one that i can recall. after seeing tribe that last time when greg, jessica and i brought eric and terri back to rutgers to show them the tribe archive and took them out to a local cafe and didn't get back to bed until sometime around 4am, i called in sick the next morning. i wasn't planning on it the night before (though i know i was talking about it), but when i woke up to go to work, i really did feel pretty awful...though it was just a result of not having slept more than three hours any night of that week rather than a real malady. of course, after sleeping another six or so hours, i felt fine. didn't go to work though. ;) m.dougiamas@info.curtin.edu.au (Martin Dougiamas) sez: >Though I'm still on the digest list I'm months and months and months >behind on Ecto ack! martin! you live! you know, i was just going to write you a letter asking if you were planning on updating the ectofile anytime soon. i suppose that the answer would be no based on your business though. oh well. i don't have time to - does anyone else want to? pas@math.ams.org (Paula Shanks) sez: >(could there possibly be any E's on this list? it would seem that mainly > I's would gravitate to ectofodder) i guess i missed any discussion on myers-briggs, huh? i took the test when i started working as a tutor while in school still. i'm not sure why exactly they wanted our profiles on record, but they did. it was an interesting exercise, though quite transparent (i'm sure that this has all been discussed, no?). anyways, answering the questiosn honestly got me an enfp result. i'm sorta a split between extroverted and introverted and between feeling and thinking. however, i'm quite intuitive (30) and extremely perceiving (54). turns out that almost my entire family is the same way (except my dad). hmmmm. S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk (Steve Fagg's Mac) sez: >Nor the difference between eating some parts of an animal but not being >willing to eat the kidneys, liver, heart, tongue, brains, sweetmeats, and >so forth. heh heh heh. one of the culture shocks that my family put meredith through was our habit of fighting over who gets the stomach and heart of the turkey at thanksgiving. she can't deal with that concept...personally, i think the stomach is quite delectable. yum! :d :) "Alex Gibbs" sez: >Before that, a friend of mine had lent them some money to help fund >their next album, which was going to be called _Killer Fish_. ah, so that's what the album was going to be called. i have a copy of the demos that they recorded to shop around for a label and they are pretty decent, though not as biting as their other material. i'd be muchly interested in any info on the sea hags (or whatever they are called). i'd also be interested in betsy's current address - the last letter i sent to her bounced since the post office box is no longer valid (that was when they were in burbank - i have no idea where they might be now). +woj ======================================================================== From: mbravo@tctube.spb.su (Michael E. Bravo) Subject: Re: Deep Forest's "Sweet Lullaby" & have DCD :) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 23:01:30 +0300 (MSD) > Well I have heard the song on MTV's 120 Min twice, and like it. > Anyone with more info? The video was shot in 8 or so different > countries, many of which were identifiable, and one being Russia > in particular (Mike Bravo, listen up :). The VJ tried to explain :) Well, we do not get any real MTV here, maybe those with satellite dishes but I'm not one of them. They show about an hour of MTV each Wednesday around 1am, but that's usually mainstream all the way. > The song reminds me of DCD, but I've only had DCD's _Into the > Labyrinth_ long enough to listen to it a few times. I like it a lot > so far. :) If everything goes well, I'll have _Into the Labyrinth_ this Monday :) Along with 5 CDs of Happy ... wow.. I just can't wait for it Errm, and I'll have to buy CD drive first :) -- Michael E. Bravo AKA /\/\ike 7 812 231 3951 (home) The Communication Tube and Tusovka, Inc. mbravo@tctube.spb.su ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 14:00:34 +1200 From: sainty_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz Subject: RE: Maybe and Calculus Vickie gives in to the sillyness: > (Silly, silly, too silly, but I had to forward this on) [...] > Can you ever forgive me? :-) Well I don't normally _forgive_ people for brightening up my day... I do, however, hug them... :) *hug* (see) :-) ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 14:28:45 +1200 From: sainty_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz Subject: Re: mythology Firstly, I have to admit I'm not well versed in mythology... However, I do enjoy reading what I have, and it certainly has a purpose IMHO. That purpose may simply be entertainment, or (as in much 'classical' mythology (Philip is throwing around terms which sound right to him, but may be entirely inappropriate :) the purpose may be to explain something unknown, or to caution the listener. (please insert additional ')' after that last smiley :) My main reason for writing though is that I thought people might be interested in some Maori mythology. (For those of you who don't know (most I would imagine) the Maoris are the native New Zealanders who arrived here long before the white settlers (I'm not sure if it is known quite where the first Maoris came from, but they made quite an impressive voyage in their canoes, wherever it was!)) If anyone is interested, I will be happy to have a search for some appropriate tales and mail them... Philip (Lochranza (n.): The long unaccompanied wail in the middles of a Scottish folk song where the pipers nip 'round the corner for a couple of drinks. --The Meaning Of Liff ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 15:09:44 +1200 From: sainty_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz Subject: Weight Enter your message below. Press CTRL/Z when complete, or CTRL/C to quit: I just thought I'd say a brief something on this topic (a topic which I am particularly glad has and is being discussed, I might add) A number of people havtalked about the images we have forced upon us concerning how women should look, and what looks good and what looks bad and so forth, and I remember it was mentioned at least once that society accepts large men much more readily than large women. I believe this is true to an extent; but I would like to add that from the age of about 12 I considered myself to be very fat. Not ridiculously so, but nonetheless I was extremely unhappy with my appearance. These days I have a similar figure (proportionally) to what I did then. The difference is that I now realise that I am a perfectly normal weight. In fact even when I was younger there were things to tell me this - occasionally I'd see one of those charts which plots height against weight, and I'd always be within the "healthy" region. Did I believe the chart? nope. They were clearly being far too generous I reasoned. I can only assume that I was recieving messages (mainly through television where anyone who takes off their shirt has less fat on them than a fasting amoeba) that I was overweight. My point here is that while women clearly have the short end of the stick (does that expression sound rather odd to anyone else?) it affects men more than some people might think. (My 'revelation' that I wasn't so fat was quite a recent thing incidentally) An area where I think men definitely have the best of things is when seeking employment. I think that far too often a women's appearance can make a difference to her chances of getting a job for which her shape has no bearing whatsoever, while men are much more likely to be based solely on their qualifications... Society is shallow :( Philip (trying hard to re-condition himself to what is real...) ======================================================================== From: p.cohen@genie.geis.com Date: Thu, 16 Dec 93 01:59:00 BST Subject: that time, eh? OK, time to put my 10 cents in. As usually narrowing the list down to only 10 albums is an excruciating exercise. Here, in no definite order is my top ten for '93: "Psychoderelect" - Pete Townshend Pete proves he's still on top of things with a marvelously innovative album. One that must be taken as a complete work and not ripped apart (sorry, but the version without dialog _IS_ interesting, but it only highlights how much the dialog pulls the whole thing together). "The Universe of Geoffrey Browne" - Captain Sensible Amazing that in the same year that Townshend creates a concept piece tied together by dialog, so does the Captain. Stylistically this one's all over the place, but always showing the Captain's wonderful pop sense. "Plants and Birds and Rocks and Things" - The Loud Family Scott Miller is back with a vengeance and the true genius of quirky pop does not disappoint. He and Mitch Easter continue the string of wonderful albums started by Game Theory. "Ring" - The Connells The Connells make up for a somewhat lacklustre fourth album with a real gem of a fifth. Every song is memorable and the hooks are all there ready to catch you and pull you right in. "Zima Junction" - Mark Burgess and the Sons of God The former singer and primary songwriter of the late, lamented Chameleons finally returns with an album that was worth the wait. Though he claims the songs are demos for an album he never made, the songs work remarkably well and show a completely different side than he showed with his former bands. This is an album that I just couldn't pull out of my CD player. "Spilt Milk" - Jellyfish Jellyfish's second album picks up right where they left off with a stunning collection of 70s-tinged pop. "220 Volt Live" - Tangerine Dream A real return to form for TD. Another disk that got stuck in my CD player. "Sleeper" - Tribe Well, Tribe prove that the first album wasn't a fluke. Absolutely catchy rock and no clunkers in the bunch. Why doesn't the world know about this band? "Dream Harder" - The Waterboys OK, so there isn't a band, but for all essential purposes, Mike Scott _IS_ the Waterboys. And this album definitely is a triumphant return to the rock style that he started with. "Equipoise" - Happy Rhodes Oh yeah. How could I forget? Noticably Missing: nahhh, why invite flames? +########################################################################+ +###+ Paul Cohen, Philadelphia, PA +###+ +########################################################################+ +###+ P.COHEN@genie.geis.com +###+ PMCOHEN@aol.com +###+ +###+ 70703.3126@compuserve.com +###+ PMCOHEN@delphi.com +###+ +########################################################################+ ======================================================================== From: Jeremy Corry Date: Wed, 15 Dec 93 22:31:04 -0500 Subject: MY GOD: an eddi reader fan! Kim Plowright wrote: > **MY GOD someone who likes eddi reader!** Its "what you do with what youve > got", am i right? WHO? > If anyone on ecto hasn't heard of her, she was the lead singer of > 'fairground attraction' until they broke up. she really has the voice of > an angel: better than kates!! (noooo! Please dont flame me! =+) ) The > thing is, shes scottish, so she has a wonderful way of pronouncing her r's. > I really recomend "mirmama" (e.r.+ the patron saints of imperfection) to > any one, as it is one of my favourite albums: if only for the cover of > Loudon Wainright IIIs "swimming song". Other than that, look out for > Fairground attraction's "first of a million kisses" or "ay fond kiss". > Theyre both must-haves! OMIGOD!!! Fairground Attraction!!! I remember very clearly when they first became popular in Britain, I absolutely adored Eddie Reader. Her voice is chthonian, extramundane, deific, cool, dandy, dreamy, groovy, keen, neat, nifty, sensational, swell even. And they were so campy, it was fab. Then, I moved back to America, and only ever heard them one time after that. I assumed that was the end of my Fairground experiences. :+( > Ive seen her live twice now and the incredible thing is, her voice is > better live than on record. If you hear her, you will understand that this > is nearly a miracle! So she is still around. I'm pleased :+) Actually, I found that Sinead sounded MUCH better live than she did recorded, and we all know how fierce-goddess-like she sounds recorded. It's wonderful to have UK-ectophiles around to hear from. Sorry you have to live in Bristol though (personal opinion only!). Peace, Love, and Hair Grease!!! -me! (Jeremy) ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Dec 93 19:38:15 PST From: Neal Copperman Subject: Maori Philip, I"d love to see Maori legends. I just saw the Piano last night, which featured a gaggle of Maori (or whatever grouping Maori come in), including actual Maori language. Well, now I know what it's like to live in New Zealand. How far through the foot deep mud do you have to walk to get to your computer? Holly Hunter plays does her own piano playing in the movie. Very impressive. >>My point here is that while women clearly have the short end of the stick >>(does that expression sound rather odd to anyone else?) Are those pointed sticks?? Neal ======================================================================== From: Jeremy Corry Date: Wed, 15 Dec 93 22:57:13 -0500 Subject: Meat, Sacred Cows, Fetish-wear METH first brought up the appearance of veggie-Kate in a leather jacket. Then someone else mentioned knowing an Indian person who wore leather. The thread has since continued... In my dedication to ecto-research, today I interrogated my Indian co-worker for y'alls benefit. She is a somewhat traditional northeast Indian ovo-lacto-vegetarian (sounds like a medical condition rather than a life- style). No hindu-variant Indian is supposed to kill a cow (for food or otherwise). Indian men are allowed to eat other forms of meat, but the women are supposed to be vegetarian (easy since they are not supposed to eat together either). Non-bovine leather products are fine for men or women. Most Indians have adopted a slightly more Western lifestyle, so these rules are not adhered to rigidly (she eats with her husband, they are both vegetarians). She was wearing leather Reeboks (TM), I asked about them, and she said since she didn't know if they were bovine leather, she wouldn't worry about it. Actually, I was very impressed with her viewpoints in our discussion. She does not expect anyone who is not hindu to follow her religion, even her children eat beef, since they were raised in the US. She does not get upset if she accidently eats beef, unless someone intentionally deceives her. She has a healthy respect for all cultures, and loves her traditions, but doesn't feel enslaved to conformity. She is also really cool about me being gay. She actually thought I was kidding when I first told her, so when I later brought something up, she said, "but you're not gay!" I laughed. I'm blabbing now, I think I have imparted all the info I have so I better sign off. :+) Climb down off that cross, we really need the wood! There's no other like me! (Jeremy) ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 17:00:47 +1200 From: sainty_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz Subject: RE: Maori Neal neals: > Philip, I"d love to see Maori legends. I just saw the Piano last night, > which featured a gaggle of Maori (or whatever grouping Maori come in), > including actual Maori language. Ah yes. I forgot about that. Maybe more people than I thought will know a bit about Maori people then. (gaggle? :) you might try 'tribe' :) Actually (rather embarassingly) I have yet to see "The Piano", although I've meant to go for ages. The thing is it's on constantly, so there's no rush :) > Well, now I know what it's like to live in New Zealand. > How far through the foot deep mud do you have to walk to get to your > computer? I guess by living in a city I miss out on that particular perk... :) (I've managed thigh-deep on the odd occasion though, whilst tramping...) I'll try to send you some legends in the near future. Philip ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Meat, Sacred Cows, Fetish-wear Date: Wed, 15 Dec 93 23:17:45 -0500 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu Jeremy Correy wrote: [...] "Jeremy spoke in Ecto today" ("try to forget this, try to forget this, try to erase this, try to erase this from the mail spool...") --jeffy vedder ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)