Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #910 ecto, Number 910 Tuesday, 14 December 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: mythology Today's your birthday friend.... Re: Top 10 that time, eh? stuff Re: Top 10 Top 10 correction mythology/potholders Hey Bday! Brrr Calling All Angels ======================================================================== From: mbravo@tctube.spb.su (Michael E. Bravo) Subject: Re: mythology Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 02:29:03 +0300 (MSD) > > How do you think mythology comes into being and does it evolve? > Around campfires :-) Do you like campfires? My friends and I, we use to go camping in the forests of St.Petersburg region every year, starting from May and finishing in October/November, depending on how cold it gets. We have LOTS of beatiful forests and lakes (and marshes :) ) here. In our team, I'm the firemaster - probably this is why I noticed your mention of campfires here... Those are really very nice, romantic, and remembrance-worthy (huh?) moments in my life - sitting with my friends around the fire in the deep night, the eerie non-silence of forest around you, drinking tea, talking, maybe singing something with guitar... feeling the tired muscles after a 20-km walk through the marshy wood with 20-25 kg backpack... relaxing in the tent... -- Michael E. Bravo AKA /\/\ike 7 812 231 3951 (home) The Communication Tube and Tusovka, Inc. mbravo@tctube.spb.su ======================================================================== From: klaus@inphobos.wupper.de Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 22:01:46 Subject: Today's your birthday friend.... i*i*i*i*i*i *************** ***HAPPY******* ********BIRTHDAY*** ******************* ******* Shelby ******** *********************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Shelby Sun December 13 1970 Roscoe the Frog Laura Clifford Tue December 17 1957 Sagittarius Dirk Kastens Tue December 17 1963 Sagittarius Uli Grepel Wed December 25 1968 Steinbock Karl Dotzek Sat December 30 1961 Capricorn Stuart Castergine Mon December 30 1963 You Are Here Marvin Camras Sat January 1 1916 Tapehead Jeanne Schreiter Tue January 3 1967 Capricorn John Sandoval Wed January 4 1967 Capricorn Paul Cohen Tue January 5 1954 Capricorn Tony Garrity Mon January 8 1962 Pool of Life Greg Bossert Tue January 9 1962 OfTheTimes Aaron Hawkins Mon January 12 1970 Capricorn -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _____ Klaus Kluge * klaus@inphobos.wupper.de * I'll be here, I'll be (in) Ecto! ======================================================================== From: louis@netcom.com (Roy Sette) Subject: Re: Top 10 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 21:35:20 -0800 (PST) >Happy Rhodes, _Equipoise_ > >Ah yes, the Hap-ster at last. Let me get the negative comments out >of the way first: the production is a bit overstuffed, the songs are >too long (anyone else notice that before =P, she infrequently had >songs more than five minutes long? Almost every song on =P is over >five minutes!) and a few songs just don't interest me very much >("Temporary and Eternal", "He Will Come", the chorus of "The Flight"). >Other than that, there's many many cool things on this album. Bits of >"Runners" and "Cohabitants" are really outstanding. I like the rest >of the songs, too (excepting the above). I just wish Happy wouldn't >feel the need to "make a statement" with every song; I hope her next >album has more things like "Summer", just to balance the bombasticness >of _Equipoise_ (after all, wasn't "balance" the whole point anyway?) :) >D^2 Excuse me, but what is this shit? Overstuffed? Overlong? Making a statement? Bombastic? Uninteresting? No. I don't think so. Scrooge! Shame on you. You are hearby banished to Waukesha. (Better than Wauwatosa.) Let's try this instead: *brilliant* *inspired* *beautiful* *Equi-heavenly* Fellow ectophiles, I am now participating in an office gift-exchange. As I drew the name of a management _scum_ (I have a problem with authority goofs) I naturally thought of "Rhodes I" just for the spooky monster. But I'm giving "Equipoise" because those stiff collars judge everything according to appearances. I'm sure to get a huge raise next time around. To all you Huggers, Smoppers and Itsyourbirthdayfrienders, Nice job! -- Roy louis@netcom.com ======================================================================== Subject: that time, eh? Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 01:02:07 -0500 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu Le'see. 1993. Well, there are still two releases I plan to buy before the end of the year (the new Melissa Etheridge and the new Pogues...), but here goes anyway: In no particular order: Happy Rhodes / Equipoise As if there was any doubt. What an amazing album. Not her best, but hey, that's not exactly a pan. Kate Bush / The Red Shoes In fact, it just finished on the stereo. Matthew Sweet / Altered Beast Okay, so it's not as good as _Girlfriend_, but it's still mindboggling. One of the few men who can really self-harmonize. Pearl Jam / Vs. I can't figure out why, of all the stuff in A.B's recent IGG ad, Larry Spence keeps mentioning Pearl Jam as the band that Just Should Not Have Even Been Mentiond in Gaffa. It's hard to refrain from explaining that I was || close to putting TRS and Vs. on opposite sides of the same cassette. Great album. Definitely proves that _Ten_ wasn't any sort of fluke. Peter Gabriel / Us "Blood of Eden." "Come Talk to Me." "14 Black Paintings." "Digging in the Dirt." You don't really want me to continue justifying this selection, do you? Moon Seven Times / Moon Seven Times Area, but better. MUCH better. Oh, so much better. Thanks, Lynn 'n Henry! Shit. I can't remember if R.E.M.'s _Automatic for the People_ came out in late '92 or early '93. If it's early '93, it _definitely_ makes the list. Someone wanna help me out here? Aimee Mann / Whatever 'Bout bleedin' time she came back. It was worth the wait. Dead Can Dance / Into the Labyrinth AND THEY TOURED! Various / Sweet Relief Best wishes to Victoria... Runners up: Jane Siberry, WIWAB; Cranberries, _EDI, WCI?_ Sorry, Jane fans. I really love WIWAB, but it just didn't quite grab me the way the other albums of hers I have do. Well, not yet, at any rate. BBtB took me a long time to appreciate and I suspect that I will continue to enjoy WIWAB. But I just don't listen to it very much, at least not compared to the other stuff I listed. I suppose, though, that if REM's A4tP came out in '92 I'd pick WIWAB to fill in that 10th spot. Jeff |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Everything is still with a fear of never coming out | |Suffering Bad Grammar| Never following through / Never ever finishing | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | What we wanted to do." -- Melissa Ferrick | ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 00:07:40 CST From: kiri Subject: stuff well my first final is over, and i can relax a bit....uggh! just wanted to reply quickly to some past posts... About the Fat Thang... Well i am quite plump, and very tall. I have never really had a problem with my weight or my height. I'm usually of the mind that if I am happy, and confident of myself then what i weigh does not matter. Plus being a biologist I know that only 1% of women have models bodies. Plus, why in the world would you want to look like a half-starved waif? Enough said about that.... You are what you are. I have to disagree heartily with what someone said about tall-people being taught through societies machinations that they are better, stronger, that they have bigger egos etc. Well as a tall person I must erase this generalization. A lot of people instantly find a tall person imposing, and thus they must have an ego that matches. I hate being thought of imposing, and mean looking because i'm tall. I would bet that a great majority of tall people are kind and gentle, and don't have egos as big as themseles. In fact, if we are going to do some generalizations I find that shorter people have bigger egos, because some feel they have to make up in voice and vigor what they are lacking in height. Both views sicken me, and I hate to see such idiotic generalizations be perpetuated.... Thanks to Alan for sending the Apple info.... Meredith cewl story about Kate! Lucky! I also want to thank everyone for all the well-wishes regarding my impending partnership with court. Ecto _is_ a special place. Welcome to all newcomers! And.... unfortunately i won't be home (chicago) til the 23rd of December. I only have 5 days off...:( :( Sometimes it really bites working on a government project. I hope I can get together with some ectophiles after x-mas! :) special *hugs* to Vickie....your stories amaze me, and your courage and fortitude (no matter how damaged at present time) never cease to inspire me... kiri ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 Dec 93 23:33:57 PST From: dixon@physics.berkeley.edu (David Dixon) Subject: Re: Top 10 Roy sed: >Excuse me, but what is this shit? It's *my* opinion, thankyouverymuch. Yes, some of _Equipoise_ is brilliant, inspired, beautiful and Equi-heavenly, but it has its weak points too. Every album does. Even my favorite album of the year, WIWaB, has a song that I almost invariably skip. Unlike some people, I don't idolize albums or artists. D^2 ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 Dec 93 23:38:20 PST From: dixon@physics.berkeley.edu (David Dixon) Subject: Top 10 correction Was just looking at my CD rack again and realized that I have a correction to make: take out Crash Test Dummies from my Top 10 and replace it with Nirvana's _In Utero_. Cobain is a darn fine songwriter, even if he does (consciously) repeat hooks he used in _Nevermind_ (eg. the intro to "Rape Me" sounds a heck of a lot like the intro to "Smells Like Teen Spirit"). "Milk It" is a truly frightening song. Maybe I should go pick up _Bleach_ sometime... D^2 ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 2:52:25 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: Top 10 > Roy sed: > > >Excuse me, but what is this shit? > > It's *my* opinion, thankyouverymuch. Yes, some of _Equipoise_ is brilliant, > inspired, beautiful and Equi-heavenly, but it has its weak points too. > Every album does. Even my favorite album of the year, WIWaB, has a song that > I almost invariably skip. Unlike some people, I don't idolize albums or > artists. Yikes! Roy sounded harsh, but it wasn't meant that way. My first reaction was laughter because I read it the way he meant it. My second reaction was cringing with fear that it would get a response exactly like the one above. Please let us take a deep breath and not let this get blown out of porportion, ok? **HUGS** to you both. Vickie (who'll absolutely *die* if this blows up into Ecto's first flame war) ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 02:51:36 EST From: mojzes@monet.vill.edu (brni) Subject: mythology/potholders hi ho, well, its been a while since i've posted anything. i'm still trying to catch up. my account almost blew up on friday, what with everything getting doubled, including vickie's 500 line post...all worthwhile stuff, tho. :) i love this list, and i love all the people on it. *HUGS* to all of you. :) i've been busy trying to help out a friend who, it seems, fell in love with some guy over email, and then, when she was finally actually going to get to meet him, he came out to her not only as a bisexual, but as a bisexual female. ah, to be deceived.... :( my own life has been complex as well. my non-monogamous relationship with emily has gone from non-monogamous in theory to non-monogamous in fact, i've been doing some rather painful physical therapy, and trying to juggle a number of musical projects, while just starting to get back to work. one of these days, bob l., i'm going to get a tape of some of my stuff to you...maybe on new years... i'm hoping that i'll soon have the money for december's rent, and that after that, i'll be able to go out and buy some xmas presents. (brni is thankful for small favours--missing the xmas season as a retail worker for the first time in 10 years.) well, lets reply to a few things, i guess... ------------------------------------------ >Subject: I thought I'd make you a sweater... >...because, you know, I was up (Name that movie) > um, um, um...star trek IV? :) >I'm up, but I only ever learned how to make potholders. Anybody need >a potholder? > well, considering that a group of my friends has made it a tradition to all give UGLY potholders at each and every housewarming...um, do *you* need any potholders? :) >*HUGS* to all! > and of course, the biggest *HUG* of all goes to vickie... >Vickie ______________________________________________ there are a couple things i found problematic with steve fagg's post on mythology. i'm not sure i'm really in any condition (it being very late, and me not having slept nearly enough in the past few days) to actually be coherant, or even in any condition to actually want to argue everything out. >Of course it does this by means of metaphor rather than by direct didactic >statements. Contrary to one common (mis)use of the word, a myth is not >something which isn't true, it's something that's *ALWAYS* true. For that >reasonit's not set in the present day. Traditionally this has meant that >myths are set in some kind of distant past, often supposedly at the point >the social rules and the parts of the world being dealt with were created. >Personally I find it valid to etend this to the future or some other exotic >setting, the essential thing being the universality derived from setting >the story outwith the quotidian world. > i think, steve, that you are confusing myth with mythic style (such as can be found in tolkien, zelazny, and joyce). >>Do you think SNG is a kind of mythology or, >>because it's created in the present, it can't be called mythology? > >It seems to me that it fulfils the function of a mythology for many people, >but I would (from a UK perspective where SNG has had comparatively limited >exposure) suggest that the original series is very much more so. As far as >TOS goes, I believe it was intended to be mythological, and I would say it >succeded. I say this on the basis of outside observation as I'm not a >Trekkie, but if it quacks like a duck... > i assume that SNG = ST:TNG? that is to say, star trek: the new generation? sorry, i'm not a trekkie, although i love the (original) show, so i get some of the abbreviations. not having a tv complicates things (it took me forever and the horse it rode in on to figure out what mst3k was). i think that there are mythic elements in tv, but that those elements are not found in tv shows, but in commercials, which is really where the real action is... >>How do you think mythology comes into being and does it evolve? > >Myth making is a conscious business. Story telling is an honourable and >ancient tradition, but not all stories are myths. A myth *EXPLAINS WHY* >something is the way it is, it doesn't just describe how things are. It >provides a mechanism for understanding, a way of looking at the world, not >just data about the world. I don't accept that this is something that can >be done without intention. Mythology evolves as people adapt the stories >to provide different points of view, or additional insights, or use the >settings as a basis for inventing new stories to say new things. A useful >mythology should not remain static as human society mutates and our >understanding of the world improves, it should be the vehicle for >incorporating new insights into the common understanding. Again, I believe >this to be a conscious process. > i'd like to point out a couple things, i guess. has anyone ever played "whisper down the lane"? i suspect that much that becomes myth evolves, rather than is created. this is not exclusive, of course. not only to the stories change to provide different points of view, but the dominant mythology provides the framework within which life is led, and which becomes a boundary or limit to what can be said, or thought, and to what points of view are or are not acceptable. i would say that people do not *use* contemporary mythologies, but that they are the vehicals through which said mythologies play themselves out in the world. oh, and nothing is static, not even arabic. >>And anything else that comes to mind. > >I'd just like to add that I do feel that Gene Rodenberry (sp?) and Tolkien >were two of the most successful creators of mythology for modern (western) >mankind. It seems to me that myth-making is a natural human activity that this is the primary place where something sat wrong. i don't think that there are very many people who think that star trek and lord of the rings is *actually true*. i suppose there are some who do. they tend to be rare, tho. a thing of primary importance to myth is that it be, at some point, be considered true. when the ancient greeks talked of athena popping out of zeus' head, this was not a cute metaphorical story; this was truth. when i was a kid, and we heard that mikie had died from drinking coke and eating lots of pop rocks, that was truth, not just a cute story. *that* is a modern myth, along with a whole slew of other things (which i won't go into, since some people might be offended, and i don't wish to do that here). we BELIEVED that mikie was dead, and died because his stomach exploded from carbonation. the ancient greeks BELIEVED (well, not all of them--there are heretics in every crowd, and its not a party 'til greg falls down the steps) that athena sprang forth, fully armored, from zeus' head. people will believe the damndest things, like ollie north being a patriot, or whatever. um, what was i talking about? do you know any pizza places that still deliver to germantown at 2:30 am? tolkien and roddenberry are storytellers, not mythmakers. tolkien especially told stories of mythic proportion and style, but that does not make them myths (unless people start believing in hobbits). l.ron hubbard *was* a mythmaker, as the number of people who spend lots of money buying odd devices to help them "clear" indicates. speaking of clear...i have no idea whether i'm being clear at all... ah well. maybe i should eat some saltines. there was an episode of northern exposure which was somewhat related to all this... >any one time in any one place. Perhaps this reflects a fragmentation and >diversification of society. > we can only hope...i think that there is still a dominant mythology tho... >Steve Fagg ( S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk +44-279-402437 ) um. i hope y'all don't take any of this as a flame... its just an honest disagreement. :) well, this is *much* longer than i expected. sigh. take care, keep warm, don't forget to take your vitamin! and fer chrissakes wear a heavier jacket, or a scarf or sumthin'!!! slippin' into dad mode, i remain, brni ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 3:02:59 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Hey Bday! HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Shelby!! *HUG* Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 3:04:54 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Brrr I feel an Alaska coming on... :-( Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 10:54:57 +0100 From: brage@id.dth.dk (Jens P. Brage) Subject: Calling All Angels Hi all! This time I'm logging from Anthony's account in Melbourne. Hope you're all doing well! The nymph (who where talking about greek mythology?) writes: > Do we all realize this is a song on the soundtrack of 'Until > the End of the World', which has been mentioned before, and > I absolutely love, with k.d.lang and jane siberry dueting? Yeah! We do know that "Calling All Angels" is from "Until the End of the World" (have I ever mentioned that this is a wonderful movie? ;-)). Actually, the first time I heard the song was from the soundtrack, several months before I saw the movie.... Best wishes to you all! Jens P. Brage (brage@id.dth.dk)| Between those in constant power and those in Design Automation Group |constant pain. Between those who run to glory Center of Integrated Electronics|and those who cannot run. Tell me, which ones Technical University of Denmark |are the cripples and which ones touch the sky? ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)