Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #906 ecto, Number 906 Sunday, 12 December 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Fat, concert tapes, and me Re: Don't weight Re: mythology Ecto History SMOP? more Diamanda Sheila Chandra used in commerical? Re: Servicing mission is over! And other Ecto-notes... Re: Cho, cho, cho and other stories Update/Open House Re: mythology ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 13:58:01 +0700 From: dbx@ventana.atmos.colostate.edu (Doug Burks) Subject: Fat, concert tapes, and me Greetings, I just want to make one short comment about the fat discussion. I won't argue society's problem with overweight people, or with anyone outside of the current definition of "normal", for that matter. However, for an individual, the most important item is not society's view of you, but your view of yourself. If you know who you are and accept who you are, society (outside of the usual and way too numerous creeps, bigots, and jerks) will accept you, and, even if it doesn't, it won't bother you. This obviously won't work for gross discrimination, but it can help alleviate those small continual day-to-day aggravations. Someone (I lost my note :( ) a few days ago asked about tapes from Happy's Albany and Philadelphia concert. They exist, and are available from the tape dubbing project. If you need information about it, ask me, and I'll e-mail the FAQ to you! Jeff (or was it Brian) asked which Ectophiles go back to the Bright Beginning (Any Zenna Henderson fans out there?) of Ecto. I do!! While I didn't pre-order _Warpaint_, that's about when I came into the picture (and Vickie has a copy of my Gaffa post to prove it :) ). Of course, things were even fuzzier and bluer back in the Good Old Days of Ecto. I guess it had to do with having to walk three miles in the cold and snow just to punch up my post on IBM cards, feed them into the card reader, and have to wait to see a printed response in my bin days later, unlike you young whipper-snappers with your Mac's, your PC's, your modems, fancy-dancy workstations, and instant turnaround. Besides, blah, blah, blah ... :) :) :) Aging charter subscriber to Ecto: Doug Burks _O_ @>->--- dbx@olympic.atmos.colostate.edu |< She really is!! PS: How did we coordinate family Christmas shopping lists without e-mail? ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 15:56:54 -0800 (PST) From: Ectophiles Guide Subject: Re: Don't weight On Fri, 10 Dec 1993, Neal Copperman wrote: > Neile writes: > > >> THIS GIRL I KNOW - Jane Siberry > > > >This song has always made me feel vaguely guilty for not going ahead and > >losing weight, as though it were something I could do if I just wanted > >to--it's not that easy. > > NO, no no no no, that doesn't seem the point to me at all. I thought > it was supposed to be encouraging, not guilt inspiring. Isn't Jane > saying that you shouldn't put off doing things until after you lose weight, Well, that's pretty much the way I run my life. I do basically what I want to whether society gives me permission for it or not. Lack of self-confidence is only occasionally a problem for me--though the fact that I always interpreted this song as saying "well if you want to lose weight why don't you just do it" instead of "don't put off things you want to do until after you've lost weight" does say something about how conditioned I am still to feel guilty about being overweight. Anyway, thanks for all the supportive email and for this topic. There are always things people want to improve about themselves--the main point is not to feel that such improvements are necessary to be "good enough" to do anything. --Neile neile@u.washington.edu ======================================================================== From: mbravo@tctube.spb.su (Michael E. Bravo) Subject: Re: mythology Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 23:35:51 +0300 (MSD) Hi there! Just throwing in my $0.02 worth :) > Do you like mythology? I sure do! Especially the northern one, like Eddas... > Do you believe it serves a purpose? Yes. > How? It makes an attempt to give answers to questions like 'Why?', and even if not successful, it can be used as a start for someone's own thoughts. > Do you think SNG is a kind of mythology or, > because it's created in the present, it can't be called mythology? For me, SNG isn't... see my previous post about 'conjuring'. When I read SNG stuff, it seems flat. No world coming around me. No answers to 'Why?' On the other hand, Tolkien certainly created a mythology, and it was in the present. -- Michael E. Bravo AKA /\/\ike 7 812 231 3951 (home) The Communication Tube and Tusovka, Inc. mbravo@tctube.spb.su ======================================================================== From: brianb@netcom.com (Brian Bloom) Subject: Ecto History Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 17:04:20 -0800 (PST) Since we're dredging up the old-timers: While not one of the charter members, I joined Ecto just a week or two after it started. I had been on r.m.gaffa when the KT and Happy "slugfest" began. It was interesting watching the exodus of several poeple from r.m.g when the temperatures flared about the volume of Happy info. I actually lurked for a long time (well, several weeks) before someone (I think it might have been Tippi, but my memory is dim) made me an offer I couldn't refuse. Order Warpaint, and if I didn't like it, she'd buy it off of me. So I took the plunge and bought it (prolly one of the first bar-coded ones. :( ) and thoroughly enjoyed it. I wasn't a big contributer to Ecto (though several people remember seeing my .sig long ago) but had to abandon it when my co-op term (and thus internet access) went away. It wasn't until just over a year ago that I got another job with access and rejoined Ecto. Jessica (thank you!) was able to dig up my old .sig from the archives for me, and I've been an active "follower" of Ecto since then! I want to welcome (or re-welcome) all the newcomers to Ecto... this has to be the greatest, kindest, gentlest group on the 'net! Happy Chanukah and Merry Christmas to all! br!an the moo-man -- __ ____ __ ____ __ __ (__==__) /\ \ / \_\ / /\ / \ \ / |\ / /\ (oo) ( moo.) / \_\ / /\ |_| / / /| /\ \ \ / ||/ / / /-------\/ -' / /\ | |\ \/ /_/_ / / / \ \/ \ \ / |/ / / / | U.T.|| / \/ |_| \ __ \_\ /_/ / \ /\ \_\ / /| / / * ||----|| / /\ ./_/ \ \ \/_/_\_\/ \ \ \/_// / | / / ^^ ^^ \ \/ |_| \ \_\ /_/\ \ \_\ /_/ /|_/ / Br!an Bloom \__/_/ \/_/ \_\/ \/_/ \_\/ \_\/ brianb@netcom.com .. but music hides me so well, ..and reveals me.. oh well - HR ======================================================================== From: Aaron Hawkins Subject: SMOP? Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 21:19:51 -0600 (CST) Holly cottonballs: > > And I never have any problem understanding you or Mitch. Which makes me > > wonder if *I* make any sense to anyone. > > Eh? I'm not sure I understand you. >goofy grin< Ooo...Nafikiri wewe unaweza kusema Kiingereza, lakini nitaandika Kiswahili kama unavyotaka. :) > No, no, no. You only get *one* partridge, but it comes in this > nifty little pear tree... Yes, but there's also the two turtle-doves, and one of them, little Gamera, doesn't look at all well. > What do I do? Hmmm...something I do on IRC besides spell things > incorrectly and hassle Philip? OH! Yeah! > > Oh. Okay. What did I just do? xxooxx Aaron ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 12 Dec 93 01:05:27 PST From: kyrlidis@templeton.cchem.berkeley.edu (Angelos Kyrlidis) Subject: more Diamanda Hi, Just a brief note to mention that Diamanda Galas managed to amaze me once again last night. I saw her at Slim's in SF, where she performed 'Insane Asylum', essentially a show full of jazz, blues and gospel covers. Nothing as intense as the Plague Mass, but it was well worth it, even though it didn't last long enough. It was her most relaxed performance I have seen, with her exchanging funny anecdotes with the crowd (like the one about what it takes to sing like her: a steady diet of Instant coffee, Velveeta Cheese and sulfuric acid :)). She even sang a Diana Ross cover (something about my world is empty without you) and a song which I swear I have heard before, which she said was about 60 years old and mentioned 'meet me at the dark end of the street' and I call any ectophile who knows it to please tell me what it's called and who performs it so I can rush out and get it because it was *really* great. Angelos(wondering which SF station might broadcast the KTB interview) 'My ears have parasites'-RhHaOpDpEyS ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 04:06:18 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: Sheila Chandra used in commerical? Forgive me if I'm misspelling her name. I really know next to nothing about Sheila Chandra but there is a commercial for a pants company, jeans probably (Dockers?), that uses someone's vocal percussion (I don't know the "official" name) and I get this feeling it might be her. Anyone know what I'm talking about or is everyone looking around at each other with a raised eyebrow and wondering if I'm coherent? *grin* --- AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 04:39:38 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: Re: Servicing mission is over! And other Ecto-notes... SANDOVAL@stsci.edu: > Well, the Hubble Space Telescope is back on it's own now, with all of the > repairs completed. The mission went extremely well, with only a few minor > glitches. Hopefully, the optics problems have been resolved and Hubble will > REALLY start to amaze. :) A 48 hour health and safty period begins tomorrow, > then the first weekly schedule gets uploaded on Monday. That's when the REAL > fun begins, calibrating, finding precise aperture locations (part of my job), > etc... They are broadcasting shuttle transmissions stuff on E! (I had perviously been seeing them on CSPAN) and since it was unedited stuff they showed all sorts of things, like the crew eating a floating chocolate replica of the Hubble made of Swiss dark and white chocolate. They were not using their hands to take bites. Very amusing! The night view of all of Florida with the lights and lightning out in the ocean was really cool! It was also amusing to see a shot of part of the cabin with no one visible and nothing happening except just this one lone bag floating across the view. Okay, so I can be easily amused by the right sorts of things. :) They seem to be keeping the same hours as me, going to bed in a couple hours. > Take care everyone and wish us luck with Hubble :), Extra-good luck with Hubble. It's time for the US space effort to get some success, although this mission alone has been extremely impressive in my opinion. But as one very interested in astronomy as well, I'm really looking forward to Hubble bringing in some data. --- AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 05:28:30 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: Re: Cho, cho, cho and other stories Mitch mitchtifies: >. And of course, I hope Vickie gets better. Might I recommend the ideas of a >wise man named Alex Gibbs, not only in his .sig, but in the body of one of his >several posts in the past 24 hours, wherein he discussed some things that nee- >ded to be discussed in the present situation, far more insightfully than I >could have, not having had fully comparable experiences of my own. I'm nearly at at a loss as to how to reply to that except to say thanks for the compliment, which really isn't deserved! :) I don't want to detract from your posts main intent of recommending the ideas. "If you claim to be a wise man, that surely means you don't know." They say the more you learn, the more you realize how little you know. I wonder if you learn everything, do you come to realize you know nothing? --- AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 05:53:47 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: Re: Cho, cho, cho and other stories Mitch, BTW, I like the way you write and enjoy reading your posts, even if I don't always know what the hell you're talking about :), which is most often a result of my ignorance, not your writing style. Sometimes your sentences are like little puzzles and I love puzzles. They keep me interested, especially once I realize there is something to them. :) --- The short .sig: Alex Gibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu ======================================================================== From: r.lovejoy1@genie.geis.com Date: Sun, 12 Dec 93 20:58:00 BST Subject: Update/Open House Hello everybody, Latest from Mt. Zion - my mom is out of the ICU. She will have a triple bypass on Tuesday. Once we are past that, it seems her future looks positive. Again, thanks for all your support. In welcoming the new Bob from Cherry Hill, I'd like to pass along an invitation to any and all members of ecto. My wife and I are having an Open House on New Year's Day, Jan.1. Anyone happening to be in the general area is welcome to visit. RSVPs are not required, but you might amt to write for directions if you'd like to visit. We'll have things here to knosh on, but feel free to bring what you'd like. Anytime noon to six is no problem. Take care, all, and enjoy the season! +*************************************************************************+ + Robert Lovejoy + I've got a letter here postmarked Deep Space + + Deepspace + -The Firesign Theatre + + Cherry Hill, NJ + But baby I'm here and I've been quite an + + r.lovejoy1@genie.geis.co + Alien too... + + kdvn07a on Prodigy + -Happy Rhodes + +*************************************************************************+ ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 13:05:05 -0800 (PST) From: Ectophiles Guide Subject: Re: mythology > Do you like mythology? Yes! > Do you believe it serves a purpose? Yes. Most definitely. Even for us in the technological/scientific generations. Maybe especially for us. > How? By telling stories that lend themselves to metaphoric intrepretation, it helps people think differently about the world and deal with abstract concepts in a concrete way--and with concrete concepts in an abstract way. Myths also tell us some really basic things about what it means to be human--and reading the mythology of another culture helps to understand what that culture values and how it intreprets the world as much as reading our own mythology heps us understand ourselves better. > Do you think SNG is a kind of mythology or, > because it's created in the present, it can't be called mythology? Yes, I think Star Trek is a kind of mythology that says a lot about what we hope for ourselves--that we can still be a noble and accepting culture, and that we have not locked ourselves into a dead end by what we've done to our planet. > How do you think mythology comes into being and does it evolve? I think mythology comes from people trying to explain the world around them and what they hope for it and for themselves. I think contemporary mythology, because we now have permanent ways of storing it, will evolve less certainly than did stories from the oral traditions which were changed and shaped over hundreds of generations of storytellers, but the basic stories themselves will continue to grow and change as different people find different ways to tell them. How many Arthur stories are there now? Hundreds at least that still called him Arthur, and some that call him Superman or JFK. > And anything else that comes to mind. One of the main things that I'm working with now in my poetry is Celtic mythology because I think it has a lot to do with the basis of Western civilization and certainly with my own thought, but it's not widely known at all. For example what were witches and why did Christianity become so threatened by them? I think the answers have much to do with power struggles and heirarchy, but some of the answers are there in the tale of Morgaine, especially in Marian Zimmer Bradley's version of it in _The Mists of Avalon_. I find this sort of thing fascinating, which I guess is why I write both poetry and fantasy novels. They both have to lot with metaphoric ways of talking about humanity and how it relates to the world. What is a metaphor for? To try to explain something in language that is difficult to explain in language--such things as emotions, relationships, perception. Even science is coming back to metaphor--how else to decribe quantum mechanics? The world is complex and we understand things by relating them one to another. Often we turn them into a story to help us understand them. That's why I write. --Neile neile@u.washington.edu ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)