Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #904 ecto, Number 904 Saturday, 11 December 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: Image and Music Dalbello (Was: Image & music) Buying Happy (and autographs) Don't weight RE: Image and Music Re: Good News from Mt. Zion Re: Some more un-lurking Pile o' CDs from AG European Smoking...and Where to Find Progressive Bumper Stickers :) Better late than never? Refugee Happy Rhodes question ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 14:39:42 -0800 (PST) From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: Image and Music On Thu, 9 Dec 1993, WretchAwry wrote: > I think this thread is fascinating, and I'm glad it's on-going. Me too. > I admire > Neile's beautiful attitude toward her weight. Well, it's not constant, and I definitely would like to be in better shape if I could find the right form of exercise that would fit in my life. I think my acceptance of my weight has a lot to do with always having supportive, accepting people around me. I swear my parents (especially my mother) are angels. [snip] > On a more serious note, I believe that there's truth to the theory > that sexually molested girls are more likely to gain or lose weight, > or otherwise mar themselves in some way. Partially because of an I know that had quite an effect on me. The first time in my teens I lost enough weight to blend in with the teenage crowd I was date-raped. Of course it wasn't called that then and I was certain it was my fault, after all, I did let him kiss me. Other times in my life that I've lost weight I've had other problems with men, so I know that being thinner for me is tied up with setting myself up for emotional damage. [stuff snipped] > THIS GIRL I KNOW - Jane Siberry This song has always made me feel vaguely guilty for not going ahead and losing weight, as though it were something I could do if I just wanted to--it's not that easy. Appearance has over-importance everywhere--there's also the image as the poet as starving artist, the poet as waif, and a lot of my writing is about love and sex, and I think sometimes people are shocked that it's clear that I don't consider myself an asexual person just because I'm overweight. One more thing about this thread--have people heard the Uncle Bonsai song, "Fat Boys"? It's all about how skinny boys got nothing to wrap your arms around....kinda. Anyway. --Neile, fat & mostly happy. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 15:10:20 -0800 (PST) From: Ectophiles Guide Subject: Dalbello (Was: Image & music) On Thu, 9 Dec 1993, Michael Colford wrote: > Hey, any Dalbello fans out there? Her album _She_ is incredible. > She has been writing with the Wilson sisters of Heart recently. > A couple of her songs appear on the latest Heart album. Definitely a Dalbello fan here. My favourite of hers is _Whoman Foursays_, though I like _She_ a lot, too. Someone on the list told me that all she's been doing for a while is beer commmercials. I certainly would like to hear new work. What songs does Heart do? Didn't they already have a Dalbello cover on a previous album? --Neile neile@u.washington.edu ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 15:47:40 PST From: Neal Copperman Subject: Buying Happy (and autographs) People have been asking about where to buy Happy's stuff in various cities. What follows is not a list of all record stores that carry Happy's discs in all cities of interest (any big compilers out there want to do that???), but a suggestion. I have gone into a number of stores, independent and chains, and found that they all have been able to find catalog info on Happy and are willing to order anything with no complaints. One store (Music Plus [nothing], now owned by Blockbuster) ordered Rhodes SOngs and stocked it, despite the fact that I never bought it. It is there to hopefully catch someones eye. Another large chain, Wherehouse, has ordered me a copy of Rhodes Songs, but told me they wouldn't stock it. I can examine it, but if it turns out I don't want it, they'll send it back. (Don't worry, I'll buy that one, wouldn't want H&K to eat the postage or anything.) As far as autographing, my initial AG order was for HR^5, Rhodes I and Ecto. HR^5 was autographed. Some time later, I sent back the booklets of the other two discs with a return envelope, and Happy autographed them for me too. (The HR^5 autograph was more personal, the other two were just signatures, but if you send her your books, I am under the impression she will sign them. INclude return postage though.) Neal ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 15:56:46 PST From: Neal Copperman Subject: Don't weight Neile writes: >> THIS GIRL I KNOW - Jane Siberry > >This song has always made me feel vaguely guilty for not going ahead and >losing weight, as though it were something I could do if I just wanted >to--it's not that easy. NO, no no no no, that doesn't seem the point to me at all. I thought it was supposed to be encouraging, not guilt inspiring. Isn't Jane saying that you shouldn't put off doing things until after you lose weight, you should do them NOW. The weight is just tied to the self image that says you can't do these things because you are too heavy. Rather than first spending who knows how long trying to lose weight, and maybe never getting to where you want, and then proceeding with your life, you should do the things you want with your life, regardless of your weight. Neal ======================================================================== Date: 10 Dec 1993 16:15:22 U From: "emilyb" Subject: RE: Image and Music From: Neile Graham on Fri, Dec 10, 1993 3:59 PM >> THIS GIRL I KNOW - Jane Siberry > >This song has always made me feel vaguely guilty for not going ahead and >losing weight, as though it were something I could do if I just wanted >to--it's not that easy. This is interesting. It could be because my mom (a beautiful fat woman who's my favorite person in the world to hug) has instilled in me such a strong belief that it's wrong to make things conditional on losing weight - anyway, I've always interpreted this song as Jane saying to this girl she knows "Why don't you go ahead and get your hair done, get some sexy clothes, etc - why wait until you lose weight?" There's a magazine published somewhere near here called _Radiance_, dedicated to the size acceptance movement. It occasionally gets a little too newage woo-woo feel-good for my taste, but it's got some wonderful things to say. -- Emily ======================================================================== From: mbravo@tctube.spb.su (Michael E. Bravo) Subject: Re: Good News from Mt. Zion Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 23:01:51 +0300 (MSD) > I'm encouraged by the latest reports from San Francisco; it looks like > my mom is going to make it. They still have to run some pretty scary tests > so it's not over yet, but the doctors have called her recovery stunning. > She is off the respirator and cogent, but she doesn't remember anything > about yesterday morning at all. She doesn't remember waking up and going to > the gym! Good luck to your mom! My father is just getting back home from the intensive care after the heart attack, so I kinda know what that is. He was lucky - he's working as a building administrator in a cardiology rehabilitation sanatorium, and he collapsed just after he entered the foyer some days back. Virtually all the personnel there is trained appropriately, so they got him to intensive care without any major problems. He spent around two weeks there, then he went to his sanatorium for rehabilitation (they gave him free course! I should altogether say great thanks to the people at his job - they were really caring and helpful, not mentioning the money matters where they helped a lot), and he's now coming home for the weekends, as teh sanatorium is about 20 minutes by bus from our apartment. -- Michael E. Bravo AKA /\/\ike 7 812 231 3951 (home) The Communication Tube and Tusovka, Inc. mbravo@tctube.spb.su ======================================================================== From: mbravo@tctube.spb.su (Michael E. Bravo) Subject: Re: Some more un-lurking Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 01:09:05 +0300 (MSD) Hello fellow Ectophiles, I was reading through a two-day backlog of Ecto messages (I wasn't able to read them as I was terribly busy at a computer exhibit here), and found Lisa's post. It is really wonderful, and I feel like commenting a bit. > Stanford. I wear a size 6 1/2 shoe and am in a desperate search for a > nice black cloak (anyone have any ideas where to find such a > treasure??). What do you mean by cloak? I am seacrhing for a _real_ cloak (not the modern one, but the kind members of The Fellowship of The Ring used to wear, with hood and everything :) ) for quite a time now, so if you find anything, let me know about the place. [some great lines skipped] Well, I should say my story is somewhat different. I treasure Happy's music, but it wasn't actually a turning point in my self-awareness. Somehow it happened that I raised the usual questions of self-esteem, self-conscious, and things like that, a little earlier. I had a rather nice childhood, with the only characteristic nuance - after my parents taught me to read, I was mostly left alone in my feelings and _real_ education. Of course I attended school, was taught how to hold the knife in the right hand and the fork in the left, etc etc, but that's the usual routine. Socially, I was (and probably still is) a loner - I got no friends in secondary and high school, little or no real friends in college, and still believe that _real_ friends are something which comes in small numbers. My guides and friends and helpers always were books, and, after certain age, music. If not for books, I could be one of those broken people you see around you every day in such quantities... but somehow I pulled myself out of it. I have read tons of books. At the age of 8 it nearly killed my left eye (-5.5 now), so I became a little more careful and stopped reading under the coverlet :) - and since then I developed speed-reading skills which are often inconvenient when travelling :) - when reading at 30-40 seconds a page, you can't get enough books with you :) ... But I digress... So it was books that got me started to think about myself. I've got an attitude towards the books that I was then able to apply to music as well - this attitude is best described as 'conjuring', I think (so far as my English extends). My judgement of a book (that is, what _I_ think of it) is usually based on the result of 'conjuration' of the books' world and then sifting it through myself. If it creates its world around me, and after the 'sifting' there's a residue on my soul, this means this book has touched me in some way. It needed a very strong books, with great worlds in them, to pull me out of the initial state of self-ignorant loner, but I was lucky to encounter such. Bradbury - Martian Chronicles, Fahrenheit 451, Dandelion Wine (I still actually cry sometimes when reading this one) ; Antuan de Saint-Ecsuperi (misspelled for sure) ; Strugatskie brothers (Russian SF writers) ; Kurt Vonnegut Jr ; O.Henry ; Jack London - those and many more others have kept me above the surface. Also, much later, I discovered Ayn Rand. After the age of approx. 16 the music stepped in as well. As I said, I apply the same attitude of sifting to it as well. Of course, I enjoy some rhythmic simple music sometimes, or something you can put into background at a party, but the first music to really hit me was Pink Floyd, and then from time to time I found another pieces which contribute to myself so much, resonating with things lived through and thought over, be it happy moments of life, or pain and depression. I do not hunt for new music usually - I just taste what comes by and if I find something interesting, only then I start searching the missing pieces. The same with Happy's music - it was 'by a purely meaningless coincidence' that it entered my life, but the impact of it is very great. It couldn't come in the more appropriate moment, and also the fact that her music and personality are somehow associated in my mind with the Net and people on it, and being the kind of net freak I am :) - it is also just great. Speaking of associations - I'd like to say it's one of the strange sides of reading too much and listening to lots of music with meaningful lyrics - almost every other word or phrase you hear starts to bounce inside your head, getting quotes and associations with it, until it can be barely recognized beneath them :) For example, Feed the Fire got two distinct associations in my brain - to Tolkien (trees - art - elvish theme) and to Bradbury (be alive - boy from Dandelion Wine) > Moreover, I have a tendency to think about EVERYTHING a little too > much to the point of it being stifling, and I was always confronted > by people who just don't seem to think at all or those who would tell me > I just think too much. About the same here, the only difference being that it was me who told myself about thinking, seeing and feeling too much :) > for a while. Odd? Maybe. :) On the Happy side of all of this, in > the last 2 months I have converted two other people to devout > Happy-ism, and I think I have a few more on the way. :) I just played Warpaint and Rhodesongs to a very good friend of mine, yesterday evening, while I was visiting her and her husband at their place. Her English is very limited (close to nil), so I had to translate lyrics to Russian on the fly (that was awful, I just hate doing that, all poetic beauty is lost, just the meaning remains ), but she liked it all very much, and 'didn't know what she liked more - music or lyrics' as she put it :) > many of my closest friends are INFPs. Anyone else know what they are?? > (I have a 70-question test that can provide a good guess, so if anyone Send me one, just out of curiosty :) , at mbravo@tctube.spb.su Well, thanks for the great post Lisa, and I hope I haven't rambled long enough to make you all tired of these alphanumerics :) best wishes to all of you -- Michael E. Bravo AKA /\/\ike 7 812 231 3951 (home) The Communication Tube and Tusovka, Inc. mbravo@tctube.spb.su ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 17:56:32 PST From: stevev@miser.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender) Subject: Pile o' CDs from AG "Greg O'Rear" writes: > I finally received my shipment from AG. Since Vickie said it > was easy to get them autographed, I asked. As it turned out, > only one of them--Equipoise-- was autographed. No huge deal, > I guess, but I could have bought them cheaper at my local > record store. The idea was that I was buying them direct from > AG so that they would be autographed. I have never heard of Happy autographing every CD in a multi-CD order. When I ordered the complete 1st4 CD set, I asked for an autograph and one CD was (appropiately enough, _Ecto_). Perhaps you were expecting too much. ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Pile o' CDs from AG Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 18:05:04 -0800 (PST) From: Laane@cs.stanford.edu (Lisa "Happy Cat" Laane) Greg O'Rear writes: :-> :-> I finally received my shipment from AG. Since Vickie said it :-> was easy to get them autographed, I asked. As it turned out, :-> only one of them--Equipoise-- was autographed. No huge deal, :-> I guess, but I could have bought them cheaper at my local :-> record store. The idea was that I was buying them direct from :-> AG so that they would be autographed. And Steve VanDevender writes::-> :-> I have never heard of Happy autographing every CD in a multi-CD :-> order. When I ordered the complete 1st4 CD set, I asked for an :-> autograph and one CD was (appropiately enough, _Ecto_). Perhaps :-> you were expecting too much. :-> Hmmm. Very interesting! I recently ordered I, II, Warpaint, and Equipoise with a request for autographs, and they were ALL signed!! Seems a little random, doesn't it?? I also noticed that especially her 'R' is signed differently every time....I just thought that was interesting. So anyone have a description of the shirts from AG?? Are they worth getting?? Happy day to you! Lisa :) ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 21:08:44 -0400 (EDT) From: ROBNPAM@delphi.com Subject: European Smoking...and Where to Find Progressive Bumper Stickers :) My father's family is Danish, and every last one of them smokes like a chimney. My uncle said it's because they're so heavily taxed that smoking is one of the few things they can enjoy. How much validity that statement really has, I don't know. :) Someone had asked where to get a bumper sticker saying "another straight person for gay rights" or something to that effect. A great source for LOTS of "Products for Progressives" is Northern Sun Merchandising, 2916 E. Lake St., Minneapolis, MN 55406-2065. Gay rights, animal rights, pro-choice, feminism, ecology...you name it, they've got it. Even if you don't order anything, their catalogs are very, very entertaining. :) *--------------------------------------------------------------------* * Pamela Pociluk ROBNPAM@DELPHI.COM * *--------------------------------------------------------------------* * Tori Amos / Happy Rhodes / Kate Bush / King's X / Galactic Cowboys * * Marillion / Jellyfish / Dream Theater / Alice in Chains / Megadeth * *--------------------------------------------------------------------* ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 07:56:56 -0800 From: US@rmtc.central.sun.com (by way of jmg@rocket.com (Jim Gurley)) Subject: Better late than never? Sorry to step in so late on the HWP thread, but I had e-mail traffic problems. Anyway, here goes.... Steve Fagg wrote: Subject: Re: Image and Music Part of the stereotypical image of the American male often held in this part of the world is their often grotesque obesity. I've only been to the States a couple of times, so I don't claim to have a statistically significant sample of observation to draw from, but certainly I did notice a much greater number of fat men than I would consider the norm around here. -- This brings up an interesting point Steve. Michael Peskura and I and another friend were talking about the weight issue and we came to the conclusion that people in Britian are skinnier than in the US in general, which we found odd considering the amount of fried food prevelant in the diet (which is just as prevelant in the US diet I guess, i.e. fast food crap); we were thinking specifically of bangers and mash, battered sausages, fish and chips, kippers, etc. (which we Americans tend to think of when we think of British cuisine) Each of us could remember seeing more under-weight people there than overweight wehn we visited London. So...? (Hey, let's start another thread): But then there also seems to be more acceptance of smoking in Britian. There doesn't seem to be anything like a non-smoker's rights movement. It was hard to go anywhere in London (mind you this was in 1991) where you could get anway from smokers. Smoking doesn't seem to have the stigma that it's getting here in the US. Does it seem less frowned upon elsewhere, i.e. in Europe or Russian, etc.??? Or am I just blowing smoke rings? ======================================================================== From: Aaron Hawkins Subject: Refugee Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 21:54:29 -0600 (CST) Holly, when I first joined this list, you mentioned that you'd left RDT because of all the ill will. At the time, I thought you were a bit harsh. I will never doubt you again. :) And I never have any problem understanding you or Mitch. Which makes me wonder if *I* make any sense to anyone. Speaking of whom: Mitch, did you see the Stuart Rosenberg farewell piece in the Reader a few weeks back? It included some truly horrifying quotes from the new Station Mangler that make me worry about my former employer. Uli, I thought you said that code would generate Partridge Family lyrics. Imagine my disappointment. :) Unca Bob, Vickie, Court, Kiri, Yngwe...oh, the lot of ye: **HUGS** No, that's not enough. What does Holly do again? I've never figured out irc, so I feel left out on these things. Aaron ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 23:08:59 EST From: vickie@pilot.njin.net (Vickie Mapes) Subject: Happy Rhodes question Someone (I'm so sorry, my memory is *awful* and I can't remember who) recently asked about a Happy Box Set. I meant to answer but and I never did. Someone on rec.music.gaffa just asked the same question and I just posted this answer: at895@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Kevin F. Holy) writes: >Secondly, could someone mail me if there is some sort of box set currently >available for Happy? I got into Kate recently, but sadly I got in too >quickly because I missed hearing about TWW til recently. So, my question >is, does Happy have some sort of Box set of many/all/some of her albums? If >so, mail me. If not, ignore this paragraph. And if there is one out there, >tell me the price (US), please! It's a great idea, but no, there is no Box Set for Happy. They thought about it briefly when her first 4 albums were re-released on CD (up to then they'd only been available on cassette. Happy has never had anything released on LP) but the idea was dropped. It's not likely to happen any time soon, not unless Happy got picked up by a major label and the label decided to do it. But a) major labels are still ignoring her and b) even if she were signed after the release of her next album, they'd consider her a "new" artist and certainly wouldn't release a Box Set immediately. Vickie ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)