Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #902 ecto, Number 902 Friday, 10 December 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Response to delurking and depression; and more Sorry, gotta vent this... Re: Response to delurking and depression; and more Warning: Incoming Klaus B-) Puff, Puff, Puff... misc comments... morestuff... Re: misc comments... Re: A Happy Sampler In case you got the wrong impression... Re: mysterious Russia Sorry for email in ecto Re: Response to delurking and depression; and more I thought I'd make you a sweater... ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 01:32:37 -0500 From: Jeremy Corry Subject: Response to delurking and depression; and more RE all the recent talk of depression, fitting in, relating to aliens, Happy's music and so forth: I am listening to one of my favorite CDs, and I realized how well this song describes my feelings/experiences on the same topics: [I'd like to dedicate this to Vickie, who we all love despite not having met] ---------------------------------------------------- MOONCHILD by Shakespeare's Sister on Hormonally Yours birds can fly and fish can swim but on this planet where do I fit in? I could be in trouble or just imagining sometimes I feel like an alien I make them laugh I make them stare but mr. jones said, "hey young girl don't you feel sorry for yourself the worlds out there" there's a moonchild in everyone, oh little moonchild you're not the only one! I looked at the world from another star that's when you discover who you really are so if you think you'd like the taste you know there's not much time to waste so take off into outer space I'll see your there! ------------------------------------------------------- Very unfortunately, this band has broken up. Guess why? Because Marcella Detroit has this severe problem with depression, and can't seem to stay out of the hospital. She loves not fitting in, so I'm willing to she's the impetus behind this song. ============= Jeff: What do you have against thin men? Weight and body image can be a problem for those who feel to thin or too fat. Actually I'm not very attracted to thin men either, despite being one. But I do not have the heterosexuality excuse that someone else used. ============= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeremy J. Corry | Only Men Accepting Feminism jcorry@erasure-sl.cc.emory.edu (NeXT) | Get Kissed Meaningfully jcorry@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu (unix) | -- Geoff Marcy | __ My opinions are my own, but I probably got them from someone else. \/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== From: brianb@netcom.com (Brian Bloom) Subject: Sorry, gotta vent this... Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 22:52:57 -0800 (PST) Sorry, I don't vent much but this really got to me... There was recently added a new group alt.personals.bi One shmoe *immediately* flamed it so I flamed him back... And he saw no wrong with his actions... The names have been changed to protect the "innocent"... Gosh I despise homophobia... *sigh* Forwarded message: > Message-Id: <>< > Subject: Re: This Group is SICK! > To: brianb@netcom.com (Brian Bloom) > Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 21:16:17 CST > > > > In alt.personals.bi you write: > > > > >Pathetic! Bisexual group? You people are REALLY sick! > > > > Then don't read it. I'm not bisexual and I think it's great that > > there is a newsgroup for them to make new friends through.. > > > > Hit that little (u)nsubscribe key next time a.p.b comes alongs.. > > Yes, I have unsubscribed already. I just went into "shock" when I saw this > group (I think it is extremely STUPID) and was pretty surprised that > it was created, is all. > > XXXX > - We now return you to your normally scheduled Ecto... :(- ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Response to delurking and depression; and more Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 02:02:38 -0500 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu Jeremy Corry asks: >Jeff: What do you have against thin men? Weight and body image can be >a problem for those who feel to thin or too fat. Actually I'm not very >attracted to thin men either, despite being one. But I do not have the >heterosexuality excuse that someone else used. I don't have anything *against* thin men. In fact, I've even dated one! ;-) Naw, it's just that I'm not particularly *attracted* to thin men. You can be sure that if I find one I particularly like for any of the various other reasons I might find a man attractive, I won't summarily dismiss him because of his somatype. ObHappy: I recently found myself wondering, with all them ectophiles out there, how many of 'em were around Way Back When. _Warpaint_ was released on 4/1/91 (though I think mine actually arrived a day or two early). Ecto didn't get under way until June. How many ectophiles pre-ordered _Warpaint_? Jeff (remembering the days when there were only a couple of out gayfolk on Ecto, and wondering if Harry still lurks at all...) ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 2:08:41 EST From: jessica Subject: Re: Sorry, gotta vent this... Oh lord that is *SO* frustrating! Are you on the concrete-blonde list brian? There has very recently been a discussion there that is very similar in nature. Someone posted: "I hope I'm not offending anyone, but Johnette is too cool to be a lesbian." I responded that i *was* offended (so did many other people). The guy wrote back saying "Sorry to have offended you, but it's true, I can *tell* when someone is homosexual." (i paraphrase; he went into a whoel discussion describing why he is certain he can tell homosexuals/bisexuals from heterosexuals.) Unbeleivable, or at least i *wish* it was unbeleivable. It is sad that there are still so many people with this kind of attitude. How long will it take for that attitude to truly be in the minority? I have *no* problem with people being heterosexual. I have a problem with people not accepting homo/bi-sexual people, and I have a problem with people who not only don't accept it but feel the need to publicly (or even privately!) put down people who are gay or bi. I mean, I really think I wouldn't have a problem with someone who beleived that it was "wrong" to be homosexual or bi, and who, if you asked them, would tell you so. I even wouldn't mind them writing and publishing their thoughts on that matter. But i *do* mind them being mean/abusive/derogatory/etc.. towards the people who do things they personally find wrong. I've got that basic attitude about almost *everything*, not just this one issue.. but this one sure is coming up a lot lately.. Lots of accepting gay and bi people around in my life (including me - bi). It's easy to sometimes forget how many people in the world are jerks about it! jessica || falafel, || It is this || Don't try to tell me there's no reason for || || falafel, || that brings || any moment in time, every memory of mine. || || falafel, || us together. || Those years are lines of color on my face, || ||BaBaGanough|| --Kate || the past is warpaint. --Happy Rhodes || ======================================================================== From: brianb@netcom.com (Brian Bloom) Subject: Re: Sorry, gotta vent this... Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 23:20:48 -0800 (PST) Yeah, I know what you mean, Jessica. One of my co-workers is a bible-beating homophobe. He was lookng over my shoulder and saw Courtney's announcement. All he did was shake his head and mutter "Man, what is this world coming to?" I wanted to belt him. People thinking they can "tell" if someone is G/B/L is a joke. One of my gay friends does have a well-developed "gaydar" as he calls it, but he's been wrong several times... usually at inopportune times... :) Does anyone know where I can get one of the "Another straight person for gay rights" bumper stickers? I think I need to get little more militant. *sigh* I'm probably one of the few straight people around with a subscription to Out magazine (Cool, BTW, if you haven't looked into it.. very informative and entertaining) and I AM SICK AND TIRED OF GAY BASHING!!!! Okay, *now* I'm done venting... :) -- __ ____ __ ____ __ __ (__==__) /\ \ / \_\ / /\ / \ \ / |\ / /\ (oo) ( moo.) / \_\ / /\ |_| / / /| /\ \ \ / ||/ / / /-------\/ -' / /\ | |\ \/ /_/_ / / / \ \/ \ \ / |/ / / / | U.T.|| / \/ |_| \ __ \_\ /_/ / \ /\ \_\ / /| / / * ||----|| / /\ ./_/ \ \ \/_/_\_\/ \ \ \/_// / | / / ^^ ^^ \ \/ |_| \ \_\ /_/\ \ \_\ /_/ /|_/ / Br!an Bloom \__/_/ \/_/ \_\/ \/_/ \_\/ \_\/ brianb@netcom.com .. but music hides me so well, ..and reveals me.. oh well - HR ======================================================================== Subject: Warning: Incoming Klaus B-) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 2:01:06 CST From: Joe Zitt I really shouldn't be writing this late -- I have to be up in a few hours to head to Houston. Tonight, my theatre Group, Human Systems, is premiering my new play, "Gabrielle: A Living Hypertext" at the CyberCulture Houston Festival. (Yes, I was listening to Equipoise when I named the character and the show.) For those that are interested, the script of the play is available via gopher at ghostwheel.bga.com under "Metatron Press / Human Systems Performance Group". Note, however, that the play is hard-hitting and rather graphically concerns sexual abuse and dissociation, so it might not be appropriate for some readers/audiences. (Do we have any Ectophiles in Houston?) The dreaded Williamson County is just over the border from Austin, and some of the media is having trouble telling the two places apart. There's a BIG difference -- Austin city government recently instituted a partners'-benefits program of the type that Williamson County bitched about. I haven't seen much of the rest of Texas, but we seem to be one of the few liberal bubbles on the map. What Vickie said about the relationships of her, her mother, and her sister struck a chord. My grandmother was a truly venal person, and always criticized each of the grandchildren for not being as good as one of the other grandchildren in some way. When I was a teenager, my cousins and I suddenly figured out that she was belittling all of us in this way. When we told our mothers, it clicked for the first time for them too -- each of them had a clear idea that one of the others was my grandmother's favorite, but she was actually slamming each of them equally. *ugh*. My weight has always been a sore spot for me -- I'm about 6 feet tall and 240 pounds, and have always felt bad and alien for it. (Part of it may be that I hang out with a lot of dancers who are in wonderful shape.) My grandmother always used to bitch at me for being fat; imagine my surprise when, a few years ago, I came across photos from when I was a kid, and I *wasn't* fat, even though I remember that I was. Apparently, I must have put the weight on in high school, living down to my grandmother's expectations. (Actually, I have other reasons to have an image of myself as undesirable, but the weight is the most visible one. I also have real trouble accepting compliments from people.) An unrelated funny thing: I was looking at a newspaper box for the Houston Chronicle today, and I saw a headline along the lines of "Israel has calm night for start of Jewish Holiday". I read a little further, and they said that it was the start of the Jewish year, and started to phrase a sardonic letter in my head, informing them that Chanukah is *not* the start of the year -- when my eyes drifted across the page, and I saw the date on it: September 16! Seems like that paper had been there since then. I don't know why, though, since all the other newspaperboxes I had seen in the neighborhood were up to date. Maybe this one had been wedged shut since then. Something I realised tonight: I started reading Ecto since it was a connection to Happy's music, but now, I mostly listen to Happy becuase it's like hanging out with the Ectophiles. *HUG*. It's going to be a weird weekend, doing this show: one of our dancers quit on Saturday (yes, the play has original music (also by me) and dance interludes), our roadie/computer-operator quit today (oh yeah, it also incorporates projections from a Macintosh), our sound man quit yesterday, we're not sure what lights we're going to have, we're praying to be able to get in a tech rehearsal in the afternoon, I'm having panic attacks every couple of hours, and I hope that the actors have finally learned their lines... but the show must go on! *vroooom!* ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1993 08:12:44 -0800 From: jmg@rocket.com (Jim Gurley) Subject: Puff, Puff, Puff... Steve Fagg wrote: Subject: Re: Image and Music Part of the stereotypical image of the American male often held in this part of the world is their often grotesque obesity. I've only been to the States a couple of times, so I don't claim to have a statistically significant sample of observation to draw from, but certainly I did notice a much greater number of fat men than I would consider the norm around here. -- This brings up an interesting point Steve. Michael Peskura and I and another friend were talking about the weight issue and we came to the conclusion that people in Britian are skinnier than in the US in general, which we found odd considering the amount of fried food prevelant in the diet (which is just as prevelant in the US diet I guess, i.e. fast food crap); we were thinking specifically of bangers and mash, battered sausages, fish and chips, kippers, etc. (which we Americans tend to think of when we think of British cuisine) Each of us could remember seeing more under-weight people there than overweight wehn we visited London. So...? (Hey, let's start another thread): But then there also seems to be more acceptance of smoking in Britian. There doesn't seem to be anything like a non-smoker's rights movement. It was hard to go anywhere in London (mind you this was in 1991) where you could get anway from smokers. Smoking doesn't seem to have the stigma that it's getting here in the US. Does it seem less frowned upon elsewhere, i.e. in Europe or Russian, etc.??? Or am I just blowing smoke rings? ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 03:12:59 -0600 From: lakrahn@inst.augie.edu (...laurel...) Subject: misc comments... Hey all.... I've been rather quiet on this list.. something of a lurker, but after reading some 5 digests in a row, full of really neat posts, I felt compelled to post something*.... Thank you all* for making this such a delightful list to read. I'd never heard Happy when I started reading this list, but I still felt at home. I have "Equipoise" now, but I think I need more, somehow... :) Back home, in the Minneapolis area, I grew up posting and reading on computer bulletin board systems running on citadel software. It became something of a surrogate family during my teen years. This place reminds me of that, somewhat. Though there are less battles and gossip and things here, methinks. i hope. ;) I've been going through tough times for awhile now. Nothing like what some of you are going through, but then again.... I don't think you can measure pain in any way. .. Everyone's trials and pain and anguish are real* to them, no matter what it may be about... I'm facing a battle with clinical depression, while trying to salvage my college career. This has happened too often in my attempts at college over the last 5 years. :::sigh::: Fortunately, I have a wonderfully supportive family. But then I feel bad for letting them down... and they are a supportive family, but they are also rather reserved... Minnesotan Lutheran Norwegian/Germans.... a breed that one must know to understand. Though some of Garrison Keillor's writings are right on target, as is Howard Mohr's book "How to Talk Minnesotan".... Being isolated in South Dakota makes things weird, too...:) But anyhow... I'm getting by. Reading ecto is fun, too.... I'm on too many mailing lists, so i may quit subscribing to some. But this one is definitely a keeper... i may even get out of digest mode one of these days... :) I meant to post this next bit on Thanksgiving, but I've been going thru a lot lately and have been rather scatterbrained. It seemed appropriate in light of posts from vickie and others... I think we all know about regrets and being haunted by them.... but these two songs are upbeat takes on things.... from a very fun upbeat kindof band... Poi Dog Pondering - lyrics by Frank Orrall.. Thanksgiving Somehow I find myself far out of line from the ones I had drawn Wasn't the best of paths you could attest to that... But I'm keeping on. Would our paths cross if every great loss had turned out our gain? Would our paths cross if the pain it had cost us was paid in vain? There was no pot of gold, hardly a rainbow lighting my way. But I will be true to the red, black and blues that colored those days I owe my soul to each fork in the road, each misleading sign, 'cause even in solitude, no bitter attitude can dissolve my sweetest find. Thanksgiving for every wrong move... thanksgiving for every wrong move... That made it right. - Laurel Krahn - lakrahn@inst.augie.edu - Augustana College Sioux Falls, SD - "there's a ring around the moon, long long time 'til day; play me one more tune... please don't go away." - Greg Brown ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 03:30:16 -0600 From: lakrahn@inst.augie.edu (...laurel...) Subject: morestuff... I'm feeling verbose, it must be the late hour.... re: body type, weight, height, etc... I've been communicating electronically with people (on BBSes, primarily) for about 6 years now... It gives one a unique perspective. You usually get to know people on the basis of their words alone... then maybe you meet them face to face. I've often found it a bit odd... both of the men I've dated, I knew on bulletin board systems first, then met them. Kindof backwards from the societal norm of seeing someone you find attractive, then talking to them... I'm used to the openness and accepting nature of some folks in the electronic community (whether it on bbses or the internet). Add to that the open/accepting nature of those involved with Star Trek fandom.. and Science Fiction/Fantasy fandom in general. At least, in the Minneapolis bunch of fen... :) It spoils me, I think. I'm used to having friends who cover a vast spectrum of taste, style, lifestyle, beliefsystems, appearance, etc. At a recent "relaxacon" (small gathering of science fiction fans in ) in Minneapolis, we had a "body image workshop" panel thingy.... 'twas definitely different than most silly programming at the convention. But nice, because it was a closeknit circle of folks. We talked openly about weight and fashion and how those things seem such an issue in the "mundane" world...(i.e. those not involved in science fiction fandom.) Yet, at conventions, usually, it isn't a big factor. People are people. Size, shape, color, doesn't generally play a large role. Which is nice. Debbie Notkin then did a presentation of slides of pictures from a book she and others are trying to get published.... It's a series of photographs , mostly nudes, of large women. Women that society would have you believe are vastly overweight or undesireable, but.... they are truly beautiful pictures of beautiful strong women. Ach well, 'twas a lovely panel anad hard to put into words... I hope she can find a publisher for the book. Ach well, one of my pet peeves is about discrimination on the basis of appearances... big pet peeve, that I'm sure many of you share. babble babble babble. I'm in a babbling mood, which also means i am in a mood to type in lots of song lyrics. for some reason i'm stuck on poi dog pondering tonight, which is really unusual for me... This is one of my favorite songs that also generally brings asmile to my face.... gain by Frank Orrall, performed by Poi Dog Pondering on their second album.... U-Li-La-Lu You should wear with pride the scars on your skin they're a map of the adventures and the places you've been "Praise God" he said, lifting his drink. "And the evil too!" you said with a wink. Hey Woody Guthrie! Hey Marc Chagal! (there's far too many to list you all) But...I wanna talk about the gift that you gave... I'm so happy about the gift that you gave! (a friend of mine once said) "If you're ever around when someone dies, Look up and wave. They'll get a big kick out of it." If I should die in a car wreck may I have Van Morrison on my tape deck If I should die in a car wreck may I have Van Morrison on my tape deck... And I say U-lalalala - U-li-la-lu, U-lalalala - U-li-la-lu... ---------- to y'all... and good music, and like that. - Laurel Krahn - lakrahn@inst.augie.edu - Augustana College - Sioux Falls,SD - "it's only water in a strangers tear, looks are deceptive, but distinctions are clear...." - Peter Gabriel ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 03:26:07 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: Re: misc comments... Laurel Krahn - lakrahn@inst.augie.edu: > some of you are going through, but then again.... I don't think you > can measure pain in any way. .. Everyone's trials and pain and anguish > are real* to them, no matter what it may be about... I'm facing Yes! Very much so. Something is a problem for you if it's a problem for you. It's that simple. It doesn't matter what others may think of it, they aren't the ones with your problem. (Mis?)quoting Suzanne Vega from memory, singing about problems with respect to doctors: "It's so small to you, but it's so big to me." > upbeat kindof band... Poi Dog Pondering - lyrics by Frank Orrall.. After both of your posts I now have Poi-Dog Pondering going in my brain but that's a good thing. (I happen to have that one CD.) :) --- AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 10:48:15 +0000 From: S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk (Steve Fagg's Mac) Subject: Re: A Happy Sampler At 9:57 am 9/12/93 -0800, Neile Graham wrote: >Hi, everyone-- > >Just wanted to share with you a sampler I've made for a few people >curious about Happy's work. One copy is going to Brazil, so Happy will >soon conquer yet another continent. Excellent! I think this means we have just Asia and Antarctica to go. :-) ... list of songs deleted ... Great selection, Neile. I say this with a certain amount of immodesty since your choices so often coincided with those I've used for sampler tape purposes. >I would have added "Feed the Fire" acoustic version if I had used 100 min >instead of 90. Damn hard trying to shoe-horn everything in, isn't it! I went from 60 minute samplers to 90 minutes, and my last couple were 100 minutes, and there was *STILL* essential stuff (like "He Will Come"/"The Flight") that got left out. You never know what song it might be that will "click" with a potential fan and get them hooked, and they're nearly all such damn fine songs too. Pardon my French. :-( >I was trying to give a sense of the range of her styles and the >progression in her music and also to include my favourite favourites. >Kind of a hard balance to maintain, especially when trying to make an >introductory tape. As noted above, I think you succeded admirably. :-) P.S. The record shop just rang to say the Stereolab single is in. I should pick it up and drop it in the post tomorrow (Saturday), but it may not get to you before next year as I notice the last posting date for Christmas mail to the US from the UK was this Monday (6th). -- Regards Steve Fagg ( S.L.Fagg@bnr.co.uk +44-279-402437 ) BNR Europe Ltd., London Road, Harlow, Essex, CM17 9NA, UK *** "Better drowned than duffers. If not duffers, won't drown". *** ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 04:45:16 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: In case you got the wrong impression... I just want to quickly expand on one of my posts in case people think I was too insensitive to my net-friend's suicide attempts. (That ought to be a good enough warning that this is not a light post.) If you didn't see that post then there is not much point in reading this. (I don't know how you could have missed it, it got sent out twice in loose mail!! *heh* I didn't do it!) Bear in mind that all, except two, of my dealings with this person were in a MUSH (on the net) and were hours on end, and days on end, trying to help her. The first time it became obvious she was contemplating suicide in the immediate future I gave her my phone number and asked if I could call her and she gave me her number. She accidentally(?) gave me her Dad's number first though. We talked the whole night and she was okay. In the first actual suicide attempt we had been talking on the net for hours. It wasn't until a couple hours after she had taken pills that I was sure she was serious this time and that she had *already* taken them. I called her Dad, whose number I luckily had! Her dad came and left... sigh. Another net person called the cops in Ohio while I was talking to her still. They came and took her to the hospital and she was basically okay. Not enough of the right (or wrong) stuff. The second suicide attempt was not on the net I think, or at least I wasn't around at the time. It was *much* more serious since she stopped breathing but she survived. She told me about it later. She has tried to get more professional help and I haven't really been in contact with her much but I know she is out there and she did improve last I knew. I could write tons about the mess but I think this is enough. I mainly didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea about me. Often I go by what Feynman said: "What do you care what other people think?". In this case though the nature of the people on ecto make me care. (In many situations I think a good answer to his question is because you may learn from them.) I want to thank Mike Shimniok, who helped me to understand this person, co-dependency, how to deal with the situation, and how to stop my urges to reach out to her more (if you know about co-dependency you'll know why this can be bad). He's not on ecto but deserves mention anyhow. --- AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 05:17:38 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: Re: mysterious Russia Michael, Hey, thanks for the communication offer! I actually would have written you sooner but I was hoping to tell my Dad that I met someone from St. Petersburg before I wrote back so I could tell you his reaction and his reaction about your mom's name being Galina. :) Also, I wanted to ask him smoething else too. They are leaving next week I believe. I will probably talk to him tomorrow and I'll write you tomorrow. (it's about 5 am here) Until then, Alex (actually it's Alexander but not from Russian origin I don't think) --- AlexGibbs arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu |\| | (~, |-| ~|~ |-| /-\ \/\/ |< "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." "Have you ever seen a picture of Jesus laughing? Mmm, do \ Why Should I you think He had a beautiful smile? A smile that healed." \ Love You? ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 05:22:15 -0700 From: "Alex Gibbs" Subject: Sorry for email in ecto Ooops, I meant that last post to be private mail in response to the ecto talk. I didn't notice the CC to ecto that was still there. Sorry! - Alex ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 7:28:37 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: Response to delurking and depression; and more Jeffy sez: > ObHappy: I recently found myself wondering, with all them ectophiles out > there, how many of 'em were around Way Back When. Me! Me! :-) > Jeff > (remembering the days when there were only a couple of out gayfolk on Ecto, > and wondering if Harry still lurks at all...) I haven't heard from Harry for a long time, but he's still on the subscriber list. If he's moved then his mailbox must have a helluva huge bulge in it! I too, think it's wonderful that gay/bi Ectophiles can feel comfortable enough to come out in Ecto though of course, there's no pressure to come out. Out or not, y'all have a lot of supporters here. Vickie (bi, in spirit anyway) ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 7:52:01 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: I thought I'd make you a sweater... ...because, you know, I was up (Name that movie) I'm up, but I only ever learned how to make potholders. Anybody need a potholder? Fuzzy and friendly HALLOOOs & HEIs to the new Ectophiles and delurkers out there. Welcome to Ecto! *HUGS* & *SMOOCHES* to all the nice, wonderful people who sent me love and support and who let me know it's always ok to write what I write. It's such a wonderful thing. I can get more love and confidence-building support in one day, with one post, than I got in my entire life, before I met Chris. Anyone who says that the computer is a cold and unfeeling machine is definitely not doing the same things with their computer that I am. Through my computer I've made tons of friends who care about me more than my own family ever did. It's an incredible feeling, and I thank you all for being there and being so nice to me. *HUGS* to all! Vickie ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)