Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #895 ecto, Number 895 Tuesday, 7 December 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Living with Sarah Re: Image & music (was Bjork :-() Re: Image and Music Re: Surprise, surprise... Off to Germany wedding mysterious Russia Re: Happy Christmas to everyone If you're reading this before midnight EST... RE: Image & music (was Bjork :-() Re: man facing southeast Re: Image & music ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 16:44:36 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Colford Subject: Living with Sarah Well, I've now lived with Sarah (Fumbling towards ecstasy, that is) for over a week now (courtesy of the CD bar) and I can agree, it's pretty stunning. Not as immediately so as Solace, IMHO, but in more of a subtle way. I love the way she follows _Fear_ with _Fumbling towards ecstasy_ which begins with the lines, "Oh the fear has left me now. I'm not frightened anymore." :-) And is it me, or are the Peter Gabriel influences much stronger on this album. It really has a mellow-PeterG. feel to it. Michael ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 16:18:46 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Colford Subject: Re: Image & music (was Bjork :-() As in all the areas of the entertainment world, there is a double standard when it comes to appearance and "success." Meatloaf was mentioned, as were Mick Jagger and others. Two women who I have often thought of in this category are Alison Moyet and Ann Wilson (of Heart). The problem here is weight. It seems that Alison can't break in the U.S. It seems to me that her size and limited glamour appeal must be the principle reason. It certainly can't be her amazing voice. Heart has been succesful in America, but surely anyone who has seen their videos know that Ann (lead vocalist) is kept carefully hidden from the camera due to her weight, and Nancy (the pretty blonde) is prominently featured. Clearly, the strength of Heart (one of their few?) is Ann's voice. Interestingly enough, this double standard doesn't seem as prevalent in the U.K. Is this true? Well, just felt like mentioning that. (Deborah Iyall ex- of Romeo Void is another one. Oh! And what about poor Martha Wash! How many times have some dance act used her vocals and then used a skinny, sexy stand-in for video/photo- graphs/album art!) It's awfully infuriating. Michael ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 15:02:02 -0800 (PST) From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: Image and Music Michael Colford made a really good point regarding the double standard when it comes to weight. There recently was an interesting piece on weight on NPR, and they were talking about how being overweight doesn't really effect men quite so much because men are expected to be larger physically. When women are larger physically it means they are opting out of the small woman = sexy woman image that women are expected to live up to. The piece also went on to talk about discrimination particularly in hiring and that "them heavy people" don't get the work because being overweight is considered a character flaw, particularly in women. It is a rejection of the standard values, particularly when someone doesn't mind being overweight and isn't always apologizing for it. Rejecting the standard values isn't a way to win popularity in this society--even in so-called alternative music. I'm quite overweight, and while I'd rather be slimmer than I am I've never been slim, except as a very young child. As a teenager I agonized over it, but as an adult I've learned that as long as I'm healthy there are more important things to worry about. I've been really lucky--I have enough confidence that I've managed to get mostly where I want to be in life and I'm happily married (hear that, Jim?), but I know a lot of other women who have been discriminated against all their lives and have had their confidence totally eroded. It's bad enough being a woman in this society, but being a woman who isn't playing the game is even worse. There's a good book about this called _Fat is a Feminist Issue_. Anyway, that's what artists like Ann Wilson and Martha Walsh are up against, particularly in the pop world where glitz is more important than music. Otherwise why would Madonna be such a megastar? Why put Nancy out in front? Why not even show Martha? Why did Happy create the _Equipoise_ cover? --Neile neile@u.washington.edu ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 18:35:43 EST From: WretchAwry Subject: Re: Surprise, surprise... We suprise Greg: > Well. I guess I should try to keep up with my ecto reading. If I *had* > been keeping up, I wouldn't have nearly had a heart attack this past > Saturday. Sorry :-). We had stopped in the day before, but no one left a note for Greg to warn him. > So here I am, minding my own business, working my Saturday shift at The > CD Bar here in Toronto, when this couple I've never met before in my life > walks up to me. "You wouldn't happen to be Greg, would you?" the woman > asks. "Uh... yeah" I say (meanwhile thinking "who wants to know?" :-) ). > "HI! I'm Vickie from Chicago!" she sez, "and this is my Chris" (yes, she > really *does* say "my" Chris... heh!). Whow! I'm sure my jaw must've > hit the floor or something. Not quite, but you *did* look a bit suprised :-). > Anyway, it was quite the surprise, and a pleasant one at that. Vickie > gives as many hugs in real life as she does around here. :-) They're > both just as nice in real life as they are around here Well, thank you! You were just as nice as I knew you'd be too! > I felt very > privlidged to be the first to show them the "Moments of Pleasure" CD > singles, *and* to be the first person to play them "Show a Little > Devotion". We felt bad that we didn't buy them while we were there, but we knew that we had them on hold at a record store down here. We have them now (all three-12", CD single & Box). > Luckily, the store wasn't too busy, so I had the chance to > talk to them for at least a few minutes. For those keeping track of such > things, they bought an issue of Rock CD magazine with Kate on the cover, > an issue of NME from a few weeks back with a Kate interview, and a CD > from Norway (? I *think* that was the country). They couldn't hang out > too long, since their friend was waiting for them in the car, but at > least I had a few minutes with some bona fide Net Celebs. :-) You're a Net.Celeb *too*! Yeah, we couldn't hang out because we were on our way to see Holly Cole in Niagra-On-The-Lake. It was very nice meeting you Greg. Thanks for being so nice to us! Yngve, I bought "Nordisk Sang" on CD, which I'd been looking for forever. I'd only ever had a dub of it, so I was hopping up and down with joy when I saw the CD there! Vickie ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 07 Dec 93 17:33:32 CDT From: Chip Lueck Subject: Off to Germany Howdy Ectophiles! I'm leaving tomorrow for EurEctofest, etc. I'm looking forward to seeing Klaus & Claudia again and meeting Ilka, Tim, Uli and gang! Ecto is truly an amazing place! I'll be back in a little more than a week with (hopefully) some exciting Ectotales to tell. :-) =chip ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 07 Dec 93 18:33:10 CST From: Courtney Subject: wedding Mr. and Mrs. D.A. Dallas would like to announce the engagement of their daughter.. Courtney M. Dallas to Kirstin A. Hargie daughter of.. Mr. and Mrs. J. Hargie ======================================================================== From: mbravo@tctube.spb.su (Michael E. Bravo) Subject: mysterious Russia Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 02:53:18 +0300 (MSD) Hello fellow Ectophiles! We did have a nice talk with Vickie on IRC a day back, and she told me that Russia is considered to be rather a mysterious place, so all my posts about it would be interesting to people here. Well, thre first thing I want to tell you about Russia is that it is not mysterious at all :) - hmm, I better get to explain that. What I mean to say is that the best thing to understand Russian people is to forget all possible crap that mass media is stuffing down your throat. The basic things, those Happy sings about, are all the same here. Love, hate, teenagers feelings, love triangles, the joy of clear morning or the beauty of a seaside sunset, live silence of the forests, mirrors of the lakes - it is all the same here! Once you understand this it'll be really easier to think about Russia, maybe :) Of course, 'the circumstances of the world' here ARE different, and I hope I will be able to describe them here, eventually, as per my mood :) , or answer whatever questions any of you might have. -- Michael E. Bravo AKA /\/\ike 7 812 231 3951 (home) The Communication Tube and Tusovka, Inc. mbravo@tctube.spb.su ======================================================================== From: mbravo@tctube.spb.su (Michael E. Bravo) Subject: Re: Happy Christmas to everyone Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 01:22:51 +0300 (MSD) > I'm probably going to get this wrong but here goes!!! > Weihnachten froh > Wesoly Boze narodzenie > Kerstmis blij > Noel content > Navidad feliz > Natale lieto Schastlivogo rozhdestva :) -- Michael E. Bravo AKA /\/\ike 7 812 231 3951 (home) The Communication Tube and Tusovka, Inc. mbravo@tctube.spb.su ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1993 19:49:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Suspended In Duct Tape Subject: If you're reading this before midnight EST... .... check this out! It's my mom's birthday today. (I won't tell how old she is, but suffice it to say it's a biggie, and the second digit is 0. ;) My present won't arrive in the mail until tomorrow, so I figured I could give her a virtual one today- birthday wishes from people she doesn't know. She'll love iy. So, if it's still December 7th where you are, and if you're into it, send a happy birthday note to my mom, Regina Tarr, at r.tarr@genie.geis.com and totally freak her out. (Don't expect a reply- she hasn't figured out how to do that yet.) I'll let you all know her reaction. Thanks! Meredith meth@delphi.com ======================================================================== Date: 7 Dec 1993 16:46:21 U From: "emilyb" Subject: RE: Image & music (was Bjork :-() Not to mention (oh, bother, what's her name?) Carnie Wilson of Wilson Phillips. I don't remember - what was the outcome of Martha Wash's lawsuit against the record company and the band (was it C&C Music Factory?)? -- Emily (been a long day, syntax gone out the window) Breed ======================================================================== From: snpf@ugcs.caltech.edu (The Duchess Of York) Subject: Re: man facing southeast Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 17:44:01 -0800 (PST) Regarding questions from Seanympf to Vickie about Man Facing Southeast and 'Out from under me' by Happy. > Hi! May I call you Sarah, or would you prefer Duchess or Sea Nymph? > (Did you see that there's a thread concerning your name?) Umm, yes. It makes me laugh...my eyes tear...:) > > > Just wannto say that it is an awesome movie, wonderful. > > Yes! I've only seen it once, when it first came out on video. I never > saw that it played at a theater, but then it might have come and gone > quickly and I just missed it. I'd *love* to see it at a theater, but > it's not the kind of film that gets shown again after the initial run, > especially if it's out on video. If I ever did see that it was playing > at a theater somewhere, I'd definitely go. > > > Have you been brought up in a highly christian background > > Enough that I caught the basis "Jesus-like" persona of the alien. I'm > sure there were many little things that I didn't catch in the one > viewing, that I might if I see it again (which, now that I'm reminded > of it, I'm going to try to do) I would catch, and others that I'd > probably not catch no matter how many times I saw it. I'm not religious > now, as a matter of fact I'm don't believe anymore, but I grew up a > Lutheran, went to Sunday School, Vacation Bible School and chorus and > all that. It's been years though. > > > and know all the parallels? > > If you have time, point out some of them so that I'll be looking for > them when I see it again. I'd be interested, but only if you get a > chance. No pressure :-) > > > anyway > > 'out from under me' I don't really understand because > > well...'splain to me what you see in the lyrics to translate > > to man facing southeast? > > It's been a long time since I first thought that, but I just thought > there were parallels to the doctor slowly coming to believe the > patient. I saw the movie before I heard the song, and the *feeling* > of the movie stayed with me, not exactly the specific story (which is > why I was so happy to see that review using gopher. It brought back > a lot of details that I'd forgotten.) When I heard "Off From Out From > Under Me" I didn't catch all the lyrics, but enough lines and enough > of the same eerie feeling as I'd gotten from the movie. > > That was the first Happy song to catch my ear and it made me a life-long > fan. I was at work when I heard it (via a Walkman) and I stopped what I > was doing and just stared into space, listening. My eyes were wide and > I went "oh !WOW!" and I was so mesmerized that my brain flickered and > I jumped when the tape ended before the song did....YIKES! NO! I re-wound > the tape and listened again, and again. It's *still* one of my favorite > songs, probably my favorite if judged by sentimentality. > > Here's the lyrics to the song and the movie review: > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > Happy Rhodes > Ecto > > A-4) OFF FROM OUT FROM UNDER ME > > I knew a man who was very odd > He'd always thought that someone was following him > He'd talk of entities that didn't exist > Or so I thought... > > Off from out from under me > > His paranoia intrigued me so > I was sure he'd escaped from the looney bin > Every day it became clearer > He was right... > > Off from out from under me > > Goodbye my lunatic, I hope you're faring well > I'm trying to keep them off from out from under you > You were right little madman they're hovering at my head > I'm trying to keep them off from out from under me > > This man had knowledge of right and wrong > He could separate light from dark > He showed me the horrors of infesting thoughts > > Of emotions > > Off from out from under me > Out from under me Off from out from under me > > Thanks be my lunatic, I know he's faring well > It's over now, they're off from out from under him > They can't hurt the madman > Now they're hammering at my head > I must die to get them off from out from under me > > Off from out from under me > Get 'em off from out from under me > Get 'em off > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > MAN FACING SOUTHEAST (HOMBRE MIRANDO AL SUDESTE) > A film review by Mark R. Leeper > Copyright 1987 Mark R. Leeper > > Capsule review: A serious science fiction film from > Argentina has a psychiatrist faced with a Christ-like patient > who claims to be an alien. This is a film with a lot to say > about psychiatry, hunger, charity, and religion. With that > much to say it is, perhaps, over-ambitious. It does not do > everything right but what is right is worth seeing. > > Argentina is not one of the countries one generally expects to be > making science fiction films. It has had a film industry for quite a long > time--as anyone who has heard EVITA knows--but their films seem rarely seem > to get international play and do not seem to have much fantasy, in any case. > Yet Argentina has a heritage of literary fantasy led until his recent death > by Jorge Luis Borges. Borges's influence can be felt in a new fantasy > science fiction film from Argentina, MAN FACING SOUTHEAST. The film > combines elements of THE MAN WHO FELL TO EARTH and ONE FLEW OVER THE > CUCKOO'S NEST. > > The main character of MAN FACING SOUTHEAST is a psychiatrist in an > insane asylum. Dr. Denis is disturbed by his inability to really help his > patients and by the asylum's callous and factory-like treatment of patients. > One patient's fantasy, incidentally, is an uncredited enactment of the > painting "The Lovers" by Magritte. But a new patient appears at the asylum > one day, committing himself. It is Rantes's apparent delusion that he is an > extra-terrestrial sent to Earth on a mission. He commits himself > voluntarily because he knows society would only commit him more forcibly if > he did not. > > Rantes sees the suffering and pain around him and the selfishness of > the comfortable. In a number of scenes he turns the tables. But Dr. Denis > is the real center of the story. Facing pressure to drug Rantes out of what > may or may not be an illusion (actually the audience knows which but the > doctor does not), Denis sees himself as Pontius Pilate, being forced to > crucify another Jesus. As more patients at the asylum become disciples of > Rantes, the pressures increase on the bewildered psychiatrist to fulfill his > role as the later-day Pilate. > > MAN FACING SOUTHEAST is an intelligent science fiction film that needs > no special effects. It is at once a cry of social despair, a philosophical > essay, and a science fiction story. If anything it tries to be too much and > spreads itself too thin; often it gives way to cliche. Yet in many ways it > is comparable to THE MAN IN THE WHITE SUIT and if the Argentine industry > follows the same path the British did, we can hope to see a lot more good > films from it in the future. Rate MAN FACING SOUTHEAST a +2 on the -4 to +4 > scale. > > Mark R. Leeper > ihnp4!mtgzz!leeper > mtgzz!leeper@rutgers.rutgers.edu > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Say, do you mind if I sent this to Ecto? I noticed that it was a personal > letter so I won't do it without your permission. I was going to post > this stuff anyway, and I guess I'm lazy and don't want to re-write the > stuff earlier in this letter. Very lazy am I :-). > Not at all. *heh* The connection seems obvious now. I think I was too deeply into the parallels of religion and Man Facing Southeast to see that conversion of happy to her friend's point of view = doctor to patient point of view. I was wondering exactly what 'out from under me' was meaning. Which taken from a slightly insane perspective, is understandable. I've been thinking about it often. Get it out! > Btw, I am working on an answer to your post from a while back, about Happy's > music being healing. If affected me a lot and I want to add my own thoughts. > I just haven't finished writing it. Thank you for saying what you said. > > *HUG* > > Vickie > You're welcome, and thank you! Soon I'm moving up to san fransisco area. Mt View. So anyone who lives around there, please let me know, and .... we can ecto! -seanympf ======================================================================== From: louis@netcom.com (Roy Sette) Subject: Re: Image & music Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 18:03:42 -0800 (PST) >The problem here is weight. I tried to keep this to myself. But I just couldn't, because... "nobody's getting fat 'cept Mama Cass." Now there was a chanteuse extraordinaire. <-- essential French words -- Roy (Trying hard not to blush from having been hug-smopped.) louis@netcom.com ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)