Errors-To: owner-ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #549 ecto, Number 549 Thursday, 29 April 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* Re: Gabriel tour dates! Suzanne Vega in Aschaffenburg bi-weekly Re:throwing muses and ramblings (again) Some terminal silliness Before it's too late and other stories bi-weekly Gabriel shows ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 10:28:06 EDT From: ken@startek.com (Ken Descoteaux) Subject: Re: Gabriel tour dates! Alan writes: >Tickets go on sale for the 6/20 Worcester, MA show, this Thursday (4/29). >Thru the usual Ticketbastard, I guess. Got mine... *ouch* though. They cost $42 ($35 + various and sundry agent fees) No wonder I don't go to many concerts anymore (besides the fact that most of the big acts aren't worth seeing) -ken d ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 01:16 MET DST From: uli@zoodle.robin.de (Ulrich Grepel) Subject: Suzanne Vega in Aschaffenburg Hi, I just came back from Aschaffenburg where Ilka and I visited the Suzanne Vega concert. It was really a good concert, only a little bit short - about 90 minutes. Oh yes - there was another group performing for about 45 minutes before Suzanne Vega, called 'The Graduates'. Good, but not my kind of music. Suzanne's show was - as I said before - a good concert, compared to last week's Peter Gabriel's good show and concert. I have to admit that I'm relatively new into Suzanne Vega, and as such am not able to give a list of what she played, but I think much of the new album and her greatest hits - what else would you expect? The venue in Aschaffenburg - the 'Unterfrankenhalle' is not very big, if you want you would be able to get about 1500 to 2000 people in it. If you do not use the curtains you are able to produce another let's say 3000 seats around the center place, but they didn't let us sit down ;-). The concert was not sold out, so it wasn't too big a crowd here. We (Ilka and I) wouldn't have been able to recognize millions of people behind us - we were at center stage, first row, within 2 meters of Suzanne's place - GREAT!!! :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-). No wonder we were able to reach that place: I was the second spectator entering the hall, only topped by Ilka who was first. And we did arive about 20 minutes before opening. Now, Ilka, I think this time you saw everything that was to see, didn't you? No complaints about 'I'm too small, can't see anything'? After the concert we were searching the stage entrance, waiting for Suzanne coming out. There were about 15 people waiting outside, and after some quarrelings with some 'official people' who said 'Suzanne just can't give autographs today' and about 15 people who didn't give up and kept waiting Suzanne appeared - very, very shy. I would say she's the exact opposite of Tori in this case. I think if you say something a little bit too loud to her she might faint. Of course she has the right to do so, but anyhow - we got our autographs... So, I have to get this out such that it has a chance to reach the internet before Ilka has a chance to spoil my message. (This is at least valid for rdt readers). Bye, Uli ======================================================================== Date: 29 Apr 93 14:34:55 EDT From: Mike Mendelson Subject: bi-weekly Meth asserts: > Uh, Vickie... As much as it would be quite romantic to believe > it, I highly doubt even Chris can affect you at the molecular DNA > level. Once bi, always bi, no matter whom you're sleeping with > at the time. That's just the way it is. Um, I'm not sure how serious this is, and I'll probably regret commenting on it, but, hey, life's too short, right? Since no-one else has proved it yet (to my knowledge), what support do you have for this claim? My (this is opinion folks) take on the whole nature/nurture thing w.r.t. sexual preference is that, yeah, it would sure appear that some people are genetically programmed one way or the other, *but* I have met many people who would more easily fall into the category of "hmmmm, this might be interesting, I think I'll try it for a bit and see." I mean, the bottom line is, if someone (I'll use the specific e.g. of someone I know) has a couple of lesbian relationships, after having a few heterosexual ones, then reverts back to strict heterosexualism, and plainly states she is *no* longer attracted to women "in that way," are you saying she's lying through her genes? -mjm ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 07:39:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Gurley Subject: Re:throwing muses and ramblings (again) > Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 12:44:53 EDT > From: mr rock n roll > Subject: throwing muses musing > > um, releases to date include five albums (throwing muses, house tornado, > hunkpapa, the real ramona, red heaven) Actually, what I mean't was before it devolved to a two person unit as it currently stands. But technically, the last album they did before they started going their separate ways was hunkpapa...after that Leslie Langston the bass player left.....then after the Real Ramona, Tanya Donnelly... true, Leslie Langston played base on Red Heaven, but she isn't credited as band member, and the photo on the back only has Kirstin and David... with bands like Throwing Muses, Belly, Breeders, there seems to be a highly fluid mix of people that work on any given project/album... I don't dispute the number of cds, etc. they've put out, just that the "original" band hasn't been together since 1989 or so (well, after Hunkpapa). > -- > _O_ woj currently rewoicc@erenj.bitnet (but not for long if i can help it.) > |< fegmaniax-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu - the electronic society of dark birds > ======================================================================== From: Tree of Schnopia Subject: bi-weekly Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 16:34:07 EDT Forwarded message: > From mjm@zylab.mhs.compuserve.com Thu Apr 29 16:04:47 1993 > Date: 29 Apr 93 15:32:14 EDT > From: Mike Mendelson > To: > Subject: bi-weekly > Message-Id: <930429193214_555063.0_FHI59-1@CompuServe.COM> > > Meth asserts: > > Uh, Vickie... As much as it would be quite romantic to believe > > it, I highly doubt even Chris can affect you at the molecular DNA > > level. Once bi, always bi, no matter whom you're sleeping with > > at the time. That's just the way it is. > > Um, I'm not sure how serious this is, and I'll probably regret > commenting on it, but, hey, life's too short, right? > > Since no-one else has proved it yet (to my knowledge), what support > do you have for this claim? My (this is opinion folks) take on the > whole nature/nurture thing w.r.t. sexual preference is that, yeah, > it would sure appear that some people are genetically programmed > one way or the other, *but* I have met many people who would more > easily fall into the category of "hmmmm, this might be interesting, > I think I'll try it for a bit and see." I mean, the bottom line is, > if someone (I'll use the specific e.g. of someone I know) has a > couple of lesbian relationships, after having a few heterosexual ones, > then reverts back to strict heterosexualism, and plainly states she > is *no* longer attracted to women "in that way," are you saying she's > lying through her genes? > > -mjm > My personal view is that sexual identity and sexual behavior are two different things. Vickie's now BEHAVING heterosexually. (It's really not possible to be behaving bisexually unless you're in bed with a man and a woman at once.) But Meth feels that she (Vickie) is still a bisexual au cause de identity. If Vickie still feels herself attracted to females occasionally (despite an obviously greater attraction to Chris :)), she would probably be mistaken to identify herself as straight. But the real test here is how Vickie perceives herself. We can't tell her what she is. (And let's not start debating sexual identifiers here, please? Please? It's bad enough to have this flamewar to deal with on alt.sex...my fluffy little soul can't handle two! :( ) Drewcifer ======================================================================== From: "Michael Blackmore" Date: 29 Apr 93 16:18:03 EST Subject: Some terminal silliness I was thinking about the revelations about J. Edgar Hoover's swings toward the gay side, and his persecution of gays. It made me think of a paraphrase of that great scene from "Casablanca": Scene J. Edgar Hoover in a dress: J. Edgar Hoover: "I'm shocked, shocked to find that's there's homosexuality here!" ;-) - Michael B. ======================================================================== From: brianb@lobby.ti.com (Brian Bloom) Subject: Re: bi-weekly Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 16:21:56 CDT Well, this is certainly a topic that will either bring lurkers out of the woodwork (or closet, maybe?) or leave them speechless. Ok, *MY* view on things is similar to Drewcifer's explanation. I've never had a homosexual experience, but I have been attracted to several men before. Most of the reason nothing has come from this is because I've usually had a girlfriend at those times. There's not a drop of homophobia in my body (in fact, how many "straight" people do you know that subscribe to OUT magazine..) I've always considered myself more-or-less bisexual. Once again, there can be a disparity between experience and convictions. Several of my best friends are gay and some of them have running bets on me. ;) I'm a proud supporter of gay (and lesbian and bi-) rights and would have joined in the MOW if I wasn't stuck down here in Texas. (Fate would of course stick me with a raging homophobe for an office mate. I'm sorry, I have to confess to deriving great joy from hassling and heckling him...) I am impressed at the 'liberal' bent of Ecto in general. I wonder if it's something in the music.... ;) -- __ ____ __ ____ __ __ (__==__) /\ \ / \_\ / /\ / \ \ / |\ / /\ (oo) ( moo.) / \_\ / /\ |_| / / /| /\ \ \ / ||/ / / /-------\/ -' / /\ | |\ \/ /_/_ / / / \ \/ \ \ / |/ / / / | U.T.|| / \/ |_| \ __ \_\ /_/ / \ /\ \_\ / /| / / * ||----|| / /\ ./_/ \ \ \/_/_\_\/ \ \ \/_// / | / / ^^ ^^ \ \/ |_| \ \_\ /_/\ \ \_\ /_/ /|_/ / Br!an Bloom \__/_/ \/_/ \_\/ \/_/ \_\/ \_\/ brianb@lobby.ti.com .. but music hides me so well, ..and reveals me.. oh well - HR ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 16:30:34 CDT From: The Internut Subject: Before it's too late and other stories I forgot to mention in yesterday's post that Record Exchange in Evanston (a few doors east of the Dempster L station) has a sale until this Saturday, May 1st. All used CDs are $6.99, new ones are $2 off (which usually means a sale price of $11.99). It's a refreshing alternative to the kind of (non)treatment mjm got at tower the other day. Speaking of mjm, thanks for the info on alternative ways of raising S. Rosen- berg. I'll hang loose awhile longer, but these data are very useful for future reference. The other night, Tasmin Archer was on Arsenio Hall. She sang "Sleeping Satell- ite," which on an additional hearing seems a much better song than most of her album, a very lukewarm review of which I filed with Neile a few weeks ago. It all seems to confirm what I read in an audio magazine some 28 years ago, when albums grew out of singles insteadof vice versa. They said then that the hit single had to be on the album, but that it didn't matter much what else was. As if to reassure me that albums can actually improve in the 28 years since the above was first published, Anthony sent me a tape of Ashley Maher, whose records are hard to get in these parts, and I'm enjoying greatly her mix of world-music, jazz, folk, and other eclectic influences. Hope she becomes more widely available. WRT Jeff's many comments: Even as the public library here doesn't put the Warpaint CD Vickie gave them on the shelf, they do display their Lynn Lavner CD. While the songs are of course gay-oriented, I found out that you don't have to be gay to enjoy them. I especially liked the one about the cat. Was it Jeff who wondered about Valerie Nozick's addresses? She's in the curren t edition of Martin's directory. WRT Larry's lamenting the lack of suitable radio stations in New York: What about WBAI (Pacifica), WKCR (Columbia), and other noncomm stations? Is Alison Steele still on the air anywhere on the New York dial? Susanne should get busy peddling Happy to them all. Drewcifer, our man in the a.s.flamewar, says: >(It's really not >possible to be behaving bisexually unless you're in bed with a man and a >woman at once.) In which case there's a whole lotta behavin' bisexually goin' on out in the real world. Drewcifer's post inspired me to check out what's new in alt.sex, and one of the first things I came to, by an interesting coincidence, was a story which at least had a threesome (F2, M1) in it, though I didn't monitor their compliance with the technical requirement that they be in bed at once. I didn't bother with more than an extremely casual channel-surf through the flame war, inasmuch as wading through points and counterpoints with Clayton Cramer will always take more time than anyone probably has. But I can tell youse that Drewcifer is doing us all proud with his methodical debunking of Clayton's ideas, if one can call them that. WRT Brian's post: Hallelujah, we're a liberal list. It almost makes one reg- ret that there is no Accuracy in Music, Accuracy in Mailing Lists, or other such nut groups to make damn fools of themselves flaming our _fachgeist_. Mitch ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 15:10:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Gurley Subject: Re: Throwing Musings And Catching 'Em > Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 12:44:53 EDT > From: mr rock n roll > Subject: throwing muses musing > > um, releases to date include five albums (throwing muses, house tornado, > hunkpapa, the real ramona, red heaven) Actually, what I mean't was before it devolved to a two person unit as it currently stands. But technically, the last album they did before they started going their separate ways was hunkpapa...after that Leslie Langston the bass player left.....then after the Real Ramona, Tanya Donnelly... true, Leslie Langston played base on Red Heaven, but she isn't credited as band member, and the photo on the back only has Kirstin and David... with bands like Throwing Muses, Belly, Breeders, there seems to be a highly fluid mix of people that work on any given project/album... I don't dispute the number of cds, etc. they've put out, just that the "original" band hasn't been together since 1989 or so (well, after Hunkpapa). ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 18:15:39 CDT From: lusky@sol.hc.ti.com (Steve Lusky) Subject: bi-weekly Brian writes: (Fate would of course stick me with a raging homophobe for an office mate. I'm sorry, I have to confess to deriving great joy from hassling and heckling him...) In this place that's no surprise. Glad you take the humorous approach! I am impressed at the 'liberal' bent of Ecto in general. I wonder if it's something in the music.... ;) Ummmm, moreso a libertarian bent. Happy displays an intensity of critical as well as creative thinking. That blends much better with those who believe that we are a society of individuals. Both Liberals and Conservatives have strong notions of the rights of "society". Critical thinking and individual preferences are not well tolerated by either. OB happy: Got a call from Chicago two days ago. Someone told this fellow that I am riding Pedal the Peaks in New Mexico this coming June. He lives near Dallas but galavants about the world for IBM, and was idle in Chicago so called to ask about driving with me to said event. Sure, got a big minivan - with CD player. Only you gotta play by the rules: the driver selects the music, and you don't get to whine about it. He says ok, who do I like. Happy Rhodes - his wife likes her, she's OK! Hmm, hope he comes, it should be a good time both on the road and bike. Ciao, Steve ======================================================================== From: lynnk68685@aol.com Subject: Happy's trip to Michigan! Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 21:21:04 EDT Hi All! I have just joined ECTO and GEnie (Prodigy $$ forced me to look elsewhere)....good thing I did because I'm happy to say:) that I will have the opportunity to drive Happy and crew from Detroit to Ann Arbor on Saturday. Thanks again to Bob for announcing this travel dilemma they were in! I'll post a full report this week-end. Lynn ======================================================================== From: boek@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au (Christopher Boek) Subject: Gabriel shows Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 11:20:53 +1000 (EST) Hi people, With all this talk of Gabriel shows going on sale, could anybody let me know if they hear about a show in mid-late August, as I'll be passing over the US then, and the only way I'll get to see a show is if I can somehow arrange a US stop. Just thought I'd send out the feelers early on .. I'll need somebody to buy a ticket for me (I can send the money beforehand, no problem). Chris (vaguely hoping his dream is possible :) ) -- | ||| ||| | ||| ||| ||| | ||Christopher Boek - boek@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au | ||| ||| | ||| ||| ||| | || Dept Elec Eng Univ of Melbourne Australia | | | | | | | | | / "Anybody remotely interesting is mad in |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| \_/\_/\_/\_/\__/(:*- some way or another" ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)