From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V7 #334 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Thursday, November 22 2001 Volume 07 : Number 334 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] Re: EctoGuide permissions [Andrew Fries ] **Rachael Sage / Grammy Madness!** [MPressinfo@aol.com] Re: More Ectoguide comments (wikki web and database) [Leon van Stuivenber] Jane interview ["neal copperman" ] Re: More Ectoguide comments ["Matthew B. Downer" ] Re: EctoGuide permissions [damon of the living dead ] Sarah Slean song on TV [meredith ] Re: EctoGuide permissions [Greg Bossert ] Re: EctoGuide permissions [damon of the tentacle ] Re: ecto-digest V7 #333 [betcey ventrella ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 03:00:08 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ********************* Kevin Bartlett (AURALG@aol.com) ********************* *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Kevin Bartlett Fri November 21 1952 Scorpio Claudia Spix Wed November 23 1960 Schuetze Anja Baldo Tue November 23 1965 Garbanzo Tommy Persson Wed November 25 1964 Sagittarius Pat Tessitore November 26 Sagittarius Valerie Kraemer November 26 Sagittarius Justin Bur Fri November 27 1964 Sagittarius Sue Trowbridge Sun November 27 1966 Skytten Ward Kadel Tue November 29 1977 Sagittarius Jesse Hernandez Liwag Wed November 29 1972 Water Rat Mirko Bulaja Sat November 30 1974 Block Juha Sorva Thu December 02 1976 Sagittarius Chip Lueck Thu December 05 1968 Sagittarius Michele Wellck December 08 Sagittarius Jeremy J. Corry Fri December 11 1970 Sagittarius Renee Canada Tue December 13 1977 Sagittarius Julie C. Kammerzell Sun December 15 1968 Sagittarius/Scorpio combo Gloria Jackson-Nefertiti Sat December 15 1956 queen_nefertiti@prodigy.net Damon Harper Tue December 16 1975 COOL BANANAS Laura Clifford Tue December 17 1957 Sagittarius Dirk Kastens Tue December 17 1963 Sagittarius Milla Wed December 17 1975 Sagittarius Chris Schernwetter Tue December 17 1974 Sagittarius Sherry Haddock Sat December 17 1960 Sagittarius Tracy Benbrook Tue December 18 1973 Sagittarius - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:52:32 +1100 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Re: EctoGuide permissions On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:50:09 -0800 Neile Graham wrote: > >it seems to me that this is a good idea to pursue ONLY if it is > >really easy. If it takes a lot of time to get raw pages ready, we > >may as well spend the time making purty pages. But if someone can > >toss together a script that we can leave running overnight against > >all your files, that might be worth considering. > > It definitely would take more than an automatic script, but way, way less > than the usual editing. I'd say messing around with the raw files will only add unnecessary work for our already overcomitted editors, while the same functionality can be found in... wait for it... search engine for Ecto archives! Yes, it's that old search engine idea I just refuse to let die - I thought it's time to mention it again... But seriously, what would you get from these "raw files" that couldn't be obtained by simply performing a search of the archives? And I remind you we do have a mostly functional development version of that search engine... somewhere... I wish I'd actually know enough about databases etc to take it upon myself to do some work on it if required. Maybe one day I will learn - I actually have everything I'd need since I switched to Linux pretty much full-time, so it just might turn out to be more than an empty threat. But for now I can only nag :) - ---------------------------------------------------------------- "Directed denial of service attacks. Computer security averted and disabled. Files deleted from hard drives. Is this the work of malicious hackers breaking into a computer system? No. This is what the RIAA envisions is fair play in their crusade to control the distribution of copyrighted material." - arstechnica.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 00:34:46 EST From: MPressinfo@aol.com Subject: **Rachael Sage / Grammy Madness!** *Exciting News* Hey Y'all - we have some fabulous news! Last night at Rachael's gig at The Bitter End, our friends and fellow NYC-artists in the groovy band "Amelia's Dream" (www.ameliasdream.com) informed us that Rachael is being considered for the Grammys! We thought at first that they were joking but then they assured us it was really true. Today we confirmed that Rachael's latest album "Painting of a Painting" as well as her song "Satellite" have made the first cut in the Grammy voting process, in several categories including "Best Pop Album", "Best New Artist" and "Best Female Pop Vocal". If any of you are card-carrying members of the Recording Academy, we hope you might consider voting for Rachael or any other indie artists (we are told fellow indiegrrl Deb Cowan was selected too!). Special thanks to co-producers Andy Zulla, Jo Davidson & Denny Fongheiser, and all the artists who've contributed their talents to Rachael's music. Of course there are thousands of nominees at this stage but who knows: maybe with some support we can show the "Academy" that indie-artists are worth considering even though multiplatinum artists usually sweep these types of events (though to be fair, one of our very favorite singers, Marc Cohn, won "best new artist" a few years back on relatively modest record sales). That's it for now! Just sharing the madness.... xoxo & gratitude, Margo, Rich, Walter & Rachael - - The Folks @ MPress Records *************************************** www.rachaelsage.com www.cdbaby.com/sage www.mp3.com/rachaelsage toll free 1.877.TRU.SAGE contact: Rich Overton / MPressrich@aol.com *************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:13:10 +0100 From: Leon van Stuivenberg Subject: Re: More Ectoguide comments (wikki web and database) >this pretty much works the same way. The big thing is that we don't want >non-ectophiles thinking it's a free-for-all. Part of the value of The >Ectophiles' Guide is that it comes from a group of commentators that have >somehwat of a common ground and group of musical interests. I can't tell > Ok, so it appears the process of swiping comments from the list archive is an essential part of building a quality guide. But asking/checking permissions to include those comments is a bottleneck, so you'd need either a person with more time available for this job, or the ability to distribute the effort amongst multiple people. The latter would probably benefit from some tool support (e.g. by keeping a list of to-be-checked-for-swiping emails, and having multiple persons check this pool and tag the email when a request has been sent) The 2nd bottleneck was said to be the conversion of raw comments into a decent artist page. I'd consider this being mostly a problem of too few editors with not enough time, so tooling in this case could only help, if at all, when it decreases any overhead. I'm not sure exactly what overhead is currently involved, but requesting a list of todo artists by email, you writing the response, sending back a selection of artists, you sending back the relevant comments, and then sending in the completed pages, might be something that could be streamlined a bit with a tool that supports collaborative editing. Since wikki web is world-writable, it is probably not be the proper tool for this job, because only ectophiles should be involved in building the guide (i guess). A more interesting tool perhaps would in this case be zope (http://www.zope.org/) Quoting: * /Teamwork/. Zope allows you to work in teams. Zope makes it easy for many people, including designers, developers, and content managers, to work in parallel without stepping on each other's toes. You can work on changes privately and make the changes public after they have been reviewed. Zope allows you to use a single server for both production and development without worrying about disrupting site service. * /Delegation of Responsibility/. You can delegate responsibility intelligently and safely with Zope. You can flexibly assign responsibility for certain tasks within designated areas of the site. So, for example, writers can have authority to edit content while designers have authority to edit templates. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:53:12 -0000 From: "neal copperman" Subject: Jane interview I've been reading Jane's interview on mp3.com (thanks for posting about that Jianda). It's an interesting read, though it sticks with the general focus we've all seen from Jane in the last several years (business over music). It's still interesting to see her insights and understand what's going on. There is a specific quote about the Sheeba web-site that goes well with discussions we had here recently, so I thought I'd repost it... "it's better to have a plain and simple website that is logical, AND user-respectful, rather than having Flash or all these plug-ins. You don't need bells and whistles. That sends a different message out. You can go totally the other way, and the message of respect is heard. It's a statement unto itself." It's an interesting interview. Here's the URL again: http://www.mp3.com/stations/jane1 neal np: Crumb soundtrack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:08:17 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew B. Downer" Subject: Re: More Ectoguide comments > From: Neile Graham > > My hesitations about turning the EctoGuide into a database are both picky > dumb ones, but I hope they're not just me being a luddite: 1) I find > building html pages inherently more interesting than putting things in > database format This is more reminiscent of William Morris than of Ned Lud. Perhaps each page of the EctoGuide should bear the text "This page lovingly and individually hand-crafted by Neile Graham and her expert team of wordsmiths". :) matt - -- Matt Downer NP: Spirit, Jewel hachiman@io.com NR: Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:45:40 -0800 From: damon of the living dead Subject: Re: EctoGuide permissions On 21 Nov, Andrew Fries wrote: > I'd say messing around with the raw files will only add unnecessary work > for our already overcomitted editors, while the same functionality can be > found in... wait for it... search engine for Ecto archives! Yes, it's that > old search engine idea I just refuse to let die - I thought it's time to > mention it again... But seriously, what would you get from these "raw files" > that couldn't be obtained by simply performing a search of the archives? i think this is a really good point. perhaps if i can whip that project back into shape then eventually we could simply provide a link from the guide to the archive search engine. `can't find what you want here? try searching the ecto archives!' > And I remind you we do have a mostly functional development version of > that search engine... somewhere... I wish I'd actually know enough about > databases etc to take it upon myself to do some work on it if required. > Maybe one day I will learn - I actually have everything I'd need since I > switched to Linux pretty much full-time, so it just might turn out to be > more than an empty threat. But for now I can only nag :) that would be at http://usrbin.ca/damon/smoelists/lists.cgi?l=ecto. i actually just updated it a few weeks ago, too, since i needed it myself to look up something; so right now it contains digests up to nov. 3. note that there are definitely some bugs, and some features which are advertised but don't work. however, the basic search funcionality works, albeit slowly sometimes, especially on my p133. i still want to finish this up someday. i got as far as devising a method to collect ecto posts as individual emails, so that the indexing would work better (right now it's a bit of a pain that everything's in digest format; it would make a lot more sense to search for terms within the same message, not digest). but i'm not sure that method is really feasible in the long term. i've learned a *lot* in the past couple of years, so if i ever get some personal time again, i suspect i could clean up the remaining issues pretty quickly. feel free to have a look at what's there, in the meantime. :) note for those interested, i'm also considering some ideas for helping neile reduce the `permissions' issue bottleneck, and i think i may have hit upon something usable. neile or i will let you all know when we have something definite. the html templates i'm thinking should just be left alone for now; they're a bottleneck, yes, but not nearly so much of one as the permissions stuff from the sounds of it, and also a more controvertial one for neile. so if i can partially automate away the worst bottleneck, we're ahead and can consider the rest of it some other time. :) - -damon Damon Harper _/\_ "I dislike arguments of any damon@usrbin.ca __\ /__ kind. They are always vulgar, \ / and often convincing." http://www.usrbin.ca/damon/ |/||\| - Oscar Wilde ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:00:19 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Sarah Slean song on TV Hi, Sarah Slean's "Blue Parade" played, almost in its entirety, over the emotional-scene-of-the-week in this evening's episode of _Felicity_. It was quite unexpected. Earlier in the episode, a song off Sinead Lohan's _No Mermaid_ album played prominently as well. That show has some of the most ectophilic music on TV anyway, but it really hit the jackpot tonight. They don't seem to discriminate much between major-label and indie music either, though only the major label stuff gets mentioned by name at the end. Happy Thanksgiving to all the American ectophiles. May your travels be safe and the food and the company be worth the trip. :) ======================================= Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth "an eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" -- mahatma gandhi ======================================= Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:32:26 -0800 From: Greg Bossert Subject: Re: EctoGuide permissions with all this talk of improving the Ectophile's Guide to Good Music, i'd just like to point out (needlessly, i am sure) that it is pretty darn cool as it is right now. not that i am against useful changes, mind you; i'd just like to acknowledge the work that's been done so far, and to recall that whole "fixing" vs. "not broke" thing. anything that simplifies Neile's and Damon's efforts seems most useful. i don't need to see every artist in the Guide -- heck, that'd take the fun out of asking on the list, and i'm just getting used to that again... ;) - -g - -- i have never been afraid to change the circumstances of the world - -- Happy Rhodes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:55:55 -0800 From: damon of the tentacle Subject: Re: EctoGuide permissions On 21 Nov, Greg Bossert got brownie points: > with all this talk of improving the Ectophile's Guide to Good Music, i'd > just like to point out (needlessly, i am sure) that it is pretty darn > cool as it is right now. thanks for the kind words. :) - -damon Damon Harper _/\_ "Black holes are where god damon@usrbin.ca __\ /__ divided by zero." \ / http://www.usrbin.ca/damon/ |/||\| - seen on slashdot.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:07:32 +0000 From: betcey ventrella Subject: Re: ecto-digest V7 #333 << What if one way to cut down on work was to let every new subscriber, and current subscribers, know that being part of the list may mean your reviews/comments will be posted in the Guide?>> Works for me . . . not that I've posted more than 3 posts since I joined (this being one of them). But ya never know, one day I may focus long enough to verbalize what's swimming in my brain and actually post a review . . . stranger things have happened. Neal and Phil - thanks for the info on Left Hand Demos last week. I'll find my way to the site and order one for myself. I've read a few references on this list to shows in Woodstock - is someone on this list from there? I lived in Woodstock for 15 years, used to own the bead store in town. Saw Happy at the Tinker Street Cafe quite a few years ago. I have greatly appreciated the Ectophiles' Guide! ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* iMac . . . . therefore, iAm ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Betcey from Beyond http://www.beyondbeadery.com ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V7 #334 **************************