From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V7 #265 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, September 17 2001 Volume 07 : Number 265 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: And so it begins.... (Senate votes to permit warrantless Net-wiretaps, Carnivore use) [Michael C] RE: Repercussions of NY Disaster ["Dave Williamson" ] Re: ecto,music and the "human spirit" [Ian Clysdale ] Death Downtown, religion, etc. [RockChic02@aol.com] Escapist music [Craig Gidney ] Re. Eugene Celebration [Steve VanDevender Subject: Re: And so it begins.... (Senate votes to permit warrantless Net-wiretaps, Carnivore use) At 11:55 AM 9/15/01 -0400, Dan Riley wrote: >Michael Curry writes: >> >Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:14:37 -0400 >> >From: Declan McCullagh >> >To: politech@politechbot.com >> >Subject: FC: Senate votes to permit warrantless Net-wiretaps, Carnivore use >> >X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ >> > >> >Text of the Hatch-Feinstein "Combating Terrorism Act of 2001": >> >http://www.politechbot.com/docs/cta.091401.html > >Declan exaggerated this one pretty badly. The CTA is about pen >registers and "trap and trace" devices, not wiretaps (wiretaps record >conversations, pen registers record the number dialed, trap and trace >devices record the number of the phone originating the call). What it >does mostly is to make it clear that the existing pen register and >trap and trace provisions apply to the internet as well as phone >calls. There are problems with this, primarily in verifying that the >recording device only captures the source and destination addresses, >but "permit warrantless Net-wiretaps" is not a correct description. >Probably the most disturbing thing is that it was passed with so >little time for debate and consideration of the ramifications. Yes, Declan's headline was a bit alarmist, and the sky is hardly falling, but I think the main point is exactly what you found so disturbing. There are people with agendas that include eroding civil liberties, and in the current climate they will wrap themselves in the flag of "anti-terrorism" and take advantage of this horrible tragedy to push through changes to the law that they'd likely never have gotten passed in calmer times. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 11:26:53 -0400 From: "Dave Williamson" Subject: RE: Repercussions of NY Disaster This by no means surprises me - the fingers turned quickly to the Arab states and peoples after Oklahoma City as well. It is highly likely that people who's religious beliefs would give them the where-with-all to train for a mission, get on a plane, hijack it, and kill themselves and thousands of others were pawns in this mess. But the sophistication level, preparation, finances, and execution of this attack point to a much more complex web of conspiracy. I just hope the efforts to track down the perpetrators are as focused inside the US as they are towards terrorists in Afghanistan (and elsewhere). Clearly the hijackers had a lot of help... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Lyle Howard Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 3:25 AM To: ecto@smoe.org Subject: Repercussions of NY Disaster Hello, Hope everyone is safe and not too damaged psychologically. I just wanted to let you know that the attack in New York affects everyone. Out here in Denton, TX, the repercussions of Tuesday are being felt in a nasty way. Some yahoos attempted to bomb the local mosque Wednesday night. Fortunately the yokels that made the attempt were drunk and/or stupid. They tried to lob a beer bottle Molotov cocktail through the window of the mosque, breaking the window and scorching the exterior wall. Now, Ive run by this mosque hundreds of times, admired its architectural beauty, and noted how quiet and humble the people who go there seem to be. I watched news footage on the attack this evening and the news crew interviewed a former co-worker of mine named Dr. Ali Emran. He is a member of the mosque and one of the kindest, most decent men I know. He and the other muslims of this town do not need this grief. (This message is not aimed at you ectos, since you all seem to be intelligent and conscientious people.) I think people forget that muslim terrorists are right-wingers and not representative of the large populace of muslim believers. And bin Laden doesnt strike me as being religious so much as being a power monger. Its a tiny news story in comparison with what is happening on the eastern seaboard, but if you want to read about it, go to: http://www.dentonrc.com/news/470124_DRC_Mosque.html On a lighter note: One of the local good ol boys decided to take a student pilot up for a lesson yesterday (I think it was yesterday). He soon found himself surrounded by F-18s and was forced to land rather quickly. He thought the air travel ban had been lifted. He was mistaken. Hang in there everybody. Lyle _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 11:28:47 -0400 From: Ian Clysdale Subject: Re: ecto,music and the "human spirit" > Our organization, the New Haven Folk Alliance didn't think twice about > keeping the Festival going. Folk music is all about bringing peace through > artistic expression. If we were to cancel the event, the terrorists would > have scored a victory. Similarly, I went to a fundraiser concert held by the Ottawa Folk Festival last night, for much the same reasons. The space had been booked, because someone (I actually forget who it was supposed to be) had been supposed to be flying over from the UK to start a Canadian tour, but couldn't come because of the air ban. So instead, they pulled together most of the usual culprits from the Ottawa scene, as well as a band from Wales who'd been stuck in Canada. I think at some point I've talked about most of the Ottawa crowd, and I'll simply say that if you've missed either Ian Tamblyn or Jen Noxon you're missing out. There's a couple of things I'd like to mention. The first part of the show was a trade-off of old folk songs back and forth; on one side Lynn Miles and someone I didn't know doing Americana folk, and on the other side a band called Galicha, who I hadn't heard before but really liked, doing Punjabi and Pakistani folk tunes. As symbolic statements went, I really liked that. (And the music was excellent, and things got *quite* interesting when they started interweaving stuff.) The second set was the band from Wales I mentioned earlier, called Rag Foundation. They were - interesting. I liked their music a lot, but the prancing and posturing of the lead singer really rather got in the way of my enjoyment of the show. I think my friend Marna summed it up best: "It's kind of like making love to someone in a gorilla mask; it's not that it really diminishes your enjoyment, but sometimes you have to close your eyes to keep a straight face." That being said, the music was quite good -- about equal parts of the influence of Steeleye, Nick Cave, and Jim Morrison. I bought both of their CDs, but unfortunately at least their more recent EP, which I'm listening to now, doesn't seem to have the energy that they had live, and they're not quite as tight enough to make up for the lack of energy with polish. It's not bad, but I'd had really good hopes for them recorded. The third set was Ian Tamblyn, Jen Noxon, and Chris McLean, once again trading songs back and forth. I've talked about them before on Ecto, they're worth checking out. So yes - I think that in some ways music is exactly what everyone there felt they needed to help them find the centre, recover from shock, and figure out how best to keep going. Isn't that the point in some ways? ian. (np: Rag Foundation - South by Southwest) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 17:27:04 EDT From: Dbell7@aol.com Subject: Re. Eugene Celebration Steve replied: >>>And all this time I thought I was the only Ectophile in Eugene. It occurred to me, after I sent my previous message, that it would be logistically difficult for many of the out-of-town acts to attend given the lack of air travel, so it doesn't suprise me that They Might Be Giants and probably many other acts had to cancel and wouldn't have been here anyway. But I guess I still don't understand how you feel that you "can not go in good conscience." Is it really wrong to celebrate life in the face of death? Is being saddened and withdrawn the only right way to respond to tragedy? It's another irony that within days of the disaster, the mayor of New York urges his citizens to go out and enjoy their city and their lives, but the mayor of Eugene urges us to call off one of the events that defines our community and brings people together. I'm going to the Celebration, and I don't think I'm disrespecting anyone by doing so. And I'm glad to hear that Susan McKeown is still going to perform.>>>> Steve: Thanks for writing. I'm glad that you will be going to the celebration and enjoying yourself. And I hope that I gave you some useful info on Susan McKeown's performance. As for my opinion on the celebration, I guess it's just the timing for me. In a few more days it would be different. But right now it seems that there is too much suffering in NYC and other parts of the country to really party or celebrate. At least for me. And I agree with the mayor of New York that we should enjoy our city and life. But I can't right now. And Mayor Torrey has a lot of things to decide in asking for a postponement. Security issues being one and how Eugene is portrayed to the rest of the nation is another. He also had some really good things to say last night at the vigil. Most memorable to me was his plea to stop right now any harrassment of Middle-Eastern people in our community. Did you read the letters to the editor in todays RG? There are other people that feel more strongly about this than me. Anyways, maybe we can run into each other at an Ecto type music event here and both enjoy ourselves and surroundings. I do love Eugene and the people here despite all of the difference of opinions. Take care, Dick Bell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 13:19:28 -0700 From: Cyoakha Subject: we all mourn differently and different lengths of time it's funny how differently we all react. i myself, was in complete stun for the first day, sort of watching a movie on drugs on a very small TV. Shock, I suppose. By day two, the phone calls and emails from concerned friends really took it home that I was just there, that I just missed it, that Krystov, as we drove away from NYC made me turn and look back at the skyline (now forever changed), that I had just made so many new friends and now I was wondering if they were alive. Day three I finally had to turn away from the TV, having seen that sight so many times it made me sick. you know the one, from a hundred angles. I started to cry a lot on day two, which continues, at odd times with no sign of lessening. I started my period 2 weeks early. I kept calling and writing people I loved, needing to reassure myself. Day four I finally went to the store and got some food, cause I took all the food in the house to burning man, then gave it away out there before I was flew east, then returning to empty pantry. So Krystov (who could not fly home to Portland, of course) and I sat around eating old pretzels and corn nuts for 4 days....I felt as if I went to the store and got some good food that I was being disloyal...."how can you eat a peach when someone is under the ground dieing with their legs crushed?"...funny, huh? Now, day 5 I still can't be around anyone who is acting normal....a band meeting is called for tonight to discuss PR plans for Halloween and I fear for myself, that if they are sitting there talking radio and plans that suddenly I may stand up and start to scream. Then I try to tell myself, why are you so damn affected? Yes I was just there and I know that puts me closer, but as I drive by wealthy Marin yuppies getting their cars washed by Mexicans I glare at them as if they should be shot. We are all reeling from this in so many ways. I start to read ectolist and have stopped lately because of the infighting on politics, I am not condemning it, just can't hear it yet. I went and sat in the woods with Krystov last evening and we re-wrote my song Mother, from OM into a song for peace. That was the first time, sitting under a redwood, with just my voice and the dulcimer, singing a song to the world (but no one could hear it) that I felt human. Another friend just called worried about me and said "TURN OFF YOUR FUCKING TV CYOAKHA".....he may be right. Music seems to be the only healing, besides rituals and prayer and tears....peace to all of you, I will check back in in a while. Again, thank you for being there, all of you. It is an amazing forum of friends, no matter what the subject. cyoakha O'D'ed Mother Country (sung to the tune of Mother on Ordinary Magic, an Irish durge) then sorrow comes a heavy blanket and we cannot seem to throw it off we are smothered by images day and night leaving us empty and lost CHORUS Hello is easier than goodby the letting and the letting go the harder the lesson, the harder we learn and the more we know that we don't know oh we've looked into the dark mouth of hell where silence sings like a bird and we earch and we pray, & sometimes we turn away as we wait to hear some word oh see now all the pretty flowers oh hear the strong people sing and the photos of those, who have gone away and the stories of them we bring oh light a candle for all our dead and gather together to ease this is a prayer for their release this is a simple song for peace O'Manion Music PO Box 198 Mill Valley, CA 94941 cyo@landoftheblind.com http://www.landoftheblind.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:11:22 -0400 From: John J Henshon Subject: WTC & some memories. Hello all, Just logged on the other night for the first time in a while and have tried to absorb some of what has been said. I'm as conflicted as some of the opinions expressed. I agree with a lot off what's been said by the sabre wrattlers and at the same time I can't really dispute some of what's been pointed out by those with a more pacifistic view. I was dropping off a CD at my sisters house when the first plane hit the towers and shortly after we turned on the tube we saw the second hit. My sister was frantic. Her husband Tony, who some of you know, works for Verizon at Church and Thomas Streets, and right about that time he was due to be getting off the train. Our good friend, her neighbor Linda is a vice president at the Bank of N.Y. directly across the street from number 7. She was due to be arriving at that time as well. Eventually we did reach them, both had already gotten into work. Tony's building is windowless and had not someone come running in screaming "A planes' hit the towers" he might not have known as soon as he did what was going on. As he was running down, and before he'd seen the devastation he'd thought some asshole in a Cessna has tried to thread the needle and blown it big time. When he saw the gaping breech in the buildings' side, it was clear that whatever hit, it was big. Until the second plane came in it wasn't clear that it was the act of terrorists. It even crossed his mind that possibly some jumbo jet coming out of Newark came off the runway with a stewardess on the pilot's lap and they made the worst possible choices in the way of wrong turns. He was about three blocks north of the north tower on East Broadway when the second jet plowed through the other building. As the plume of fire and debris billowed directly towards to middle of the intersection where he stood, a wave of heat hit his face and a concussive force punched into his sternum. As glass and twisted aluminum rained down he dove for the cover of south side of the side block. He said it seemed unreal, like the special effects in a disaster movie. He said, and I could tell from his demeanor, that what we saw on the television gave absolutely no clue at all as to the savagery of what he witnessed. Our friend Linda was even closer to ground Zero, building seven provided some limited cover for her. They actually didn't evacuate her building until after the first collapse. They had no idea that a collapse was even imminent. Up until the time the first building came down they thought their present shelter was a preferable alternative to the rain of debris and bodies from above. A friend of mine, Susan works in the Boarders and was just getting off the train as the first plane hit. It's a major miracle that either of these people survived. I'd like to mention some of the great memories I have of that place. The Trade Center and the adjacent WFC were a place where a lot of good things happened. Not more than a couple of weeks prior to this catastrophe I got to see Susan McKeown do a wonderful show on the plaza between the towers. She, Johnny Cunningham and Aidan Brennan only got to do one set before Mother Nature decided it was time we had shower, and she had to cut short the show. It rained buckets. A week before Ectofest West I got to meet and chat with Neil Gaiman at a signing he did at the Boarders where my friend Susan works. I got up in the wee small hours one Sunday a while back to go see a short set done on the plaza by Artur De Lucie for NBC. It was such an early thing that I was only one of two to show up for that. I got to chat with them for a bit and was treated to a private performance as a reward for rising early. Over at the Wintergarden at Battery Park City, which I will sorely miss, I had seen the Kronos Quartet perform. At that same venue I saw Robert Fripp and the League of Crafty Guitarists (21 of them) weave rich textures of sound on matching Ovations. After that show I got to talk with Robert briefly and found him to belie his rep, as he was most charming. Les Paul was in the audience that day checking out the places' acoustics in anticipation of his show there the following week, and he was kind enough to pose for a picture for me. Les was good enough to autograph that snap for me this summer, the night he premiered at his first Iridium Monday night gig in the new house. It's now one of my most prized possessions. I met Brian Eno in the Wintergarden a couple of years back. One my best memories of that place is most definitely Susan McKeown and Jamshied Sharife's performing at the Boarder's back in 98'. I loved the observation deck, being up there was always invigorating, even on a cloudy day. One time when I was taking a first time visitor to New York up there an image was burned into my memory. As we were coming off the top escalator, there along the rail with there backs to us were a row of Buddhist Monks, must have been twenty or thirty of them lined up along the north rail looking up towards the Empire State building. Aside from the guard, they were the only one's up there at the time and the sight of all those saffron robes and Friar Tuck hairdo's in a row with a backdrop of concrete canyons seemed strangely incongruous. Each time I took someone from out of town up on to that observation deck I felt as though I was conveying to him or her a little taste of why I love this city so. I felt distinctly proud, felt like I was saying to them, "Yeah, this is my town!" Regards and condolences, John P.S. thanks to all who inquired as to the condition of those in the area's hit. P.P.S. to Cheryl Belansky: I'm sorry but I don't have any information about your friend, but hope that you are able to locate him quickly and that the outcome is good news ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:36:00 EDT From: RockChic02@aol.com Subject: Death Downtown, religion, etc. >Maybe it's because the A-rabs are much better foils. A key ingredient in >getting Americans whipped into a frenzy against a new enemy is the >all-important race card. It's much easier to get us to hate when the >object of our hatred doesn't look like us. Is it me or does that carry a sort of 1984 sentiment? Anyway, I hadn't checked my email in about 2-3 days. When I did so today, there were about 70 emails from Ecto alone. I've patiently gone through and skimmed every one. Some left me close to tears, but most of them made me thoroghly upset. I believe everyone has a right to freedom of speech and I'm the last person to censor anyone's opinion. I also know, from experience, that anyone who is set in their beliefs will not and cannot be shaken by simple persuasion. While I did find the arguments, especially on religion, fascinating, I have to ask; Do you really think you're going to change each other's minds? No matter how much you argue about it, no one can change another person's mind for them, especially if their beliefs are as strong as some of those expressed. I also wanted to ask, as politely as possible, I know we are all shaken and upset by current events, but could we return the list to it's rightful purpose? There is still almost 24/7 coverage of the tragedy everywhere one turns and this should, in my humble opinion, be a haven from that. Somewhere we can go without having to worry about politics and death. Perhaps my views are naive, I am only 15, but I would think that instead of heated discussions and arguments over who is"wrong" and who is "right" this list of people, who have always seemed so close and loving in the past, should offer support (as many of you have done) and affection to one another. I joined a couple of months ago and I've enjoyed "lurking" and learning about new artists etc. I just hope there be more of that sort of thing and less of the cutting remarks and paranoid theories :-) Lots of love Nancy (a pacifist at heart) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 17:27:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Craig Gidney Subject: Escapist music In these troubling times, I find myself turning more and more to escapist music--like 4AD/Projekt ethereal stuff. I find that it helps me divert my attention from the darkness surrounding this country and the world. Here are some new ones: 1. Mors Syphilitica, "Feather and Fate". Imagine a better version of Faith and the Muse, that mixes a little lightness in their dark brew. Must have for lovers of churchy goth music with odd influences--lots of mandolin, and majestic female vocals. A definite pop sensibility is in this release, more so than regular Projekt releases. 2. Mahogany, "The Dream of a Modern Day." Very influenced by the Cocteau Twins and Slowdive in their heyday. Very dreamy, light, with "twee-pop" female & male vox, ringing, chiming guitars, mournful cellos, and a smattering of electronica. An early spring or autumn album. 3. Stereolab, "Sound-Dust." More futuristic-retro bosso nova electronica droning dreaminess. Sadler's voice is intimate and the music is, well, *happy*. It reminds me of the Jetsons while lyrics are obtuse and heady as always. I hope that others can find comfort in these recommendations. - --Craig ===== "Tired moons ask higher tides."--Zelda Fitzgerald __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 22:07:37 -0700 From: Steve VanDevender Subject: Re. Eugene Celebration Dbell7@aol.com writes: > Thanks for writing. I'm glad that you will be going to the celebration and > enjoying yourself. And I hope that I gave you some useful info on Susan > McKeown's performance. Susan and The Chanting House ended up performing to a large and appreciative crowd at the Celebration, and for me it really hit the spot. They were only missing their drummer, who was stranded out of town with another band who had originally been scheduled to play at the Celebration; Lindsay Horner and Jon Spurney were there and in fine form. I got to talk with Susan for a bit after the show, and she said that they canceled the performance they had originally planned for last Tuesday night, but played a performance Thursday and found it very cathartic. As I talked to her they were packing their equipment in a van to head to Portland to fly back to New York on Sunday. > And Mayor Torrey has a > lot of things to decide in asking for a postponement. Security issues being > one What, someone seriously thinks someone's going to crash a plane into Eugene? Let's face it, the probability of terrorism or other disaster hasn't really changed that much, only the perception of that probability. Saying "that can't happen here" is being in denial, even before last week's tragedy. > and how Eugene is portrayed to the rest of the nation is another. I hope that it portrays that we're not afraid of terrorism and we're not going to let it disrupt our lives, and just like New Yorkers we're willing to celebrate our lives and our freedom in the face of tragedy. In any case, whether or not Mayor Torrey felt the Celebration should have been canceled or postponed, it wasn't his decision to make, and while he was free to state his opinion I'm glad he didn't try to impose it on those of us who disagreed with it. > He also had some really good things to say last night at the > vigil. Most memorable to me was his plea to stop right now any > harrassment of Middle-Eastern people in our community. That, however, I can fully agree with. > Did you read the letters to the editor in todays RG? There are other people > that feel more strongly about this than me. My opinion, which some of the friends I talked to shared, is that the people who didn't want to participate in the Celebration didn't have to, and that people should be able to choose how they react. Calling off the Celebration would have been imposing one group's idea of how to mourn on others. And isn't one of our country's founding ideals the ability to have freedom of expression? > Anyways, maybe we can run into each other at an Ecto type music event here > and both enjoy ourselves and surroundings. I do love Eugene and the people > here despite all of the difference of opinions. As I already told Dick in a personal mail, I love Eugene precisely _because_ of the variety of opinions among people who live here. It sometimes may be frustrating and almost anarchic, but one thing you sure don't see in Eugene is universal conformity. ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V7 #265 **************************