From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #355 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Sunday, November 26 2000 Volume 06 : Number 355 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] RE:William Shatner (actually Leonard Nimoy) ["Chris Stack" ] Re: OT: selfishness ["Robert Lovejoy" ] Re: OT: selfishness [indedamon 2000 ] Re: OT: selfishness ["Robert Lovejoy" ] Re: OT: selfishness [FAMarcus@aol.com] Re: OT: selfishness [FAMarcus@aol.com] Re: OT: selfishness [indedamon 2000 ] Welcome, Christmas ["Judith Lloyd" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 03:00:04 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ****************** Tommy Persson (tompe@lysator.liu.se) ******************* *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Tommy Persson Wed November 25 1964 Sagittarius Pat Tessitore November 26 Sagittarius Valerie Kraemer November 26 Sagittarius Justin Bur Fri November 27 1964 Sagittarius Sue Trowbridge Sun November 27 1966 Skytten Ward Kadel Tue November 29 1977 Sagittarius Jesse Hernandez Liwag Wed November 29 1972 Water Rat Mirko Bulaja Sat November 30 1974 Block Juha Sorva Thu December 02 1976 Sagittarius Chip Lueck Thu December 05 1968 Sagittarius Michele Wellck December 08 Sagittarius Jeremy J. Corry Fri December 11 1970 Sagittarius Renee Canada Tue December 13 1977 Sagittarius Julie C. Kammerzell Sun December 15 1968 Sagittarius/Scorpio combo Gloria Jackson-Nefertiti Sat December 15 1956 queen_nefertiti@prodigy.net Damon Harper Tue December 16 1975 COOL BANANAS Laura Clifford Tue December 17 1957 Sagittarius Dirk Kastens Tue December 17 1963 Sagittarius Milla Wed December 17 1975 Sagittarius Chris Schernwetter Tue December 17 1974 Sagittarius Sherry Haddock Sat December 17 1960 Sagittarius Tracy Benbrook Tue December 18 1973 Sagittarius Mark Lowry Mon December 22 1969 Capricarius Kay Cleaves Wed December 22 1976 Prancing Pony Uli Grepel Wed December 25 1968 Steinbock Joseph Wasicek Sat December 25 1976 Brown Eagle - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 03:17:28 -0800 From: "Chris Stack" Subject: RE:William Shatner (actually Leonard Nimoy) Sometimes coincidences happen that just make you wonder what it all means. I just heard Nimoy's "Highly Illogical" on the radio while driving home about an hour ago. If this is a sign from some higher power, I'm going to start screening my calls. Actually, I heard it on WNCW. They have a show on Friday evenings called Camp WNCW. As the name implies...lots of campy stuff...Nancy Sinatra seems to be a big favorite of theirs. They webcast from www.wncw.org. They're a great station (although they play a little too much "Americana" for my tastes). I've called in and requested Kokoku by Laurie Anderson and they actually played it, much to the amazement of visiting friends from Tampa. Check out their Friday lunch hour Zappa feature,"Frank on Friday" ___________________________ +$;%+$;'+$;%+$;'+$;%+$;'+$; /////////////////////////// Chris Stack c_stack@mindspring.com www.mindspring.com/~c_stack > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:49:55 -0800 (PST) > From: Sue Trowbridge > Subject: William Shatner > > Believe it or not, Shatner's music *has* been released on CD. It is > currently available on a CD called SPACED OUT, which combines > some of his, > er, "best" tracks with songs from Leonard Nimoy's albums > (including my two > favorite Nimoy cuts, "Highly Illogical" and "The Ballad of Bilbo > Baggins"). Shatner's THE TRANSFORMED MAN was rereleased on CD > a few years > ago, but appears to be out of print now. A copy is currently > for sale on > eBay and amazingly enough, there are no bidders yet ;) > > - --Sue Trowbridge * albany, california > trow@slip.net * http://www.interbridge.com > > ------------------------------> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 18:16:30 -0500 From: Paul Blair Subject: Re: OT: selfishness gss replied to me: > > But what of those who sustain their own lives by their own work, > > sacrificing neither themselves nor others? > >Like subsistence farming? ...or holding a job or running a business, which is more what I had in mind. Trade is a productive activity. In an exchange, both parties seek to benefit. If there is no fraud, neither is sacrificed to the other and each earns what he gets. Bob Lovejoy posted: >Seriously, I've really gotten some cynical, cold responses to my posting. Please don't count mine among them. There's a difference between thinking that people aren't good enough to live up to the noble ideal of selflessness, and believing that selflessness isn't a noble ideal in the first place. People aren't necessarily cynics just because they have a radically different view of what virtue is. And Joe Zitt wrote: >I think the problem here is the focus on the word "selfish", which appears >to mean something very different from its common usage, again, in the >specialized jargon from which your argument appears to stem. This thread started when I disagreed with Bob Lovejoy's post upholding Service to Others over Service to Self. Later I clarified what I meant by service to self; the term "selfish" was helpful but not essential to conveying my meaning. My differences with Bob's viewpoint are substantive and not just linguistic. I did claim that the common usage of "selfishness" is incoherent and results from thoughtless use of the term; more on this below. >In common usage, again, "I see it--I want it--I'll take it" is the very >essence of selfishness, regardless of how those who for some reason want >to aggrandize the term have chosen to rework it. But why call such behavior "selfish"? The word is more than an arbitrary token for a certain class of actions; it identifies the cause of those actions as the motive of self-interest. Where is this motive evident here? The actor has a want. Is it to his interest? There is no reason to think he even cares; he just wants it. Common usage calls this behavior selfish based not on some conception of self-interest, but on a philosophy that seeks to blame the world's ills on concern for self. There's a reason why no distinct term exists for "nonpredatory self-interest"; on the common view, concern for the self just *is* disregard for others. Someone who disagrees with this premise will naturally object to such usage. But ultimately usage is secondary. As conceptions of the nature and value of the self change, usage will follow--as in fact it has over the past 30 years. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 19:28:48 -0500 From: "Robert Lovejoy" Subject: Re: OT: selfishness Perhaps I should use some examples to clarify my own concepts of service to others and service to self. In keeping with the season, Ebenezer Scrooge, before his epiphany, was service-to-self. After, service to others. In the movie X-men, Xavier was service to others, Magneto service to self. Adolf Hitler was service to self. Big time. Mother Theresa was service to others, big time. Most people fall into the grey area in between, and it is my feeling that we're all on this planet to figure out our own orientation in this matter. If you look at the major religious teachings of history, service-to-other messages are common. I personally will not make any judgments on either orientation; we should do what makes us happy inside. Personally, I'm happiest when I can help others, but hey, whatever floats your boat! Season's Greetings, Robert Lovejoy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 20:27:02 -0500 From: indedamon 2000 Subject: Re: OT: selfishness Robert Lovejoy wrote: > > Perhaps I should use some examples to clarify my own concepts of service to > others and service to self. > > In keeping with the season, Ebenezer Scrooge, before his epiphany, was > service-to-self. After, service to others. > > In the movie X-men, Xavier was service to others, Magneto service to self. this is why people have trouble with your schema. magneto was service to his kind, xavier was service to his kind. they just disagreed on what that service entailed. - -- "Neither Bush nor Gore is President. As reassuring as that is, it can't last." Bill Maher ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 21:17:13 -0500 From: "Robert Lovejoy" Subject: Re: OT: selfishness - ----- Original Message ----- From: "indedamon 2000" > this is why people have trouble with your schema. > magneto was service to his kind, xavier was service to his kind. > they just disagreed on what that service entailed. Magneto did not consider the will of others in his desire to make them mutant. Seemed pretty clear to me. RL ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 21:34:02 EST From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: OT: selfishness In a message dated 11/25/00 9:31:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, rlovejoy@home.com writes: << Magneto did not consider the will of others in his desire to make them mutant. Seemed pretty clear to me. >> in magneto's mind he represents a group of endangerd people. to protect them, the ends justifys the means. can we talk about who is stronger........the hulk or the thing next??? fam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 22:35:41 EST From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: OT: selfishness In a message dated 11/25/00 10:08:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, rlovejoy@home.com writes: << The end never justifies the means, if the means are evil. >> In magnetos mindset the genocide of mutants paralleled the almost genocide of the Jews. He wasn't going to allow that. It's a little subjective on what is evil here. To the nazi the Jews were evil. To humans the mutants are evil. sometime's you just have to understand the other side's motivation and be open enough to see their point of view. fam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 00:08:26 -0500 From: indedamon 2000 Subject: Re: OT: selfishness Robert Lovejoy wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "indedamon 2000" > > this is why people have trouble with your schema. > > magneto was service to his kind, xavier was service to his kind. > > they just disagreed on what that service entailed. > > Magneto did not consider the will of others in his desire to make them > mutant. > > Seemed pretty clear to me. really? did american soldiers consider the will of others in their invasion of germany? magneto thought he was at war. he acted with malice towards others out of preservation of not only himself, but of his kind. there's some semantical nigling going on here. acting with no concern for others is neither good nor bad. but it is selfish. however, as ha been pointed out, selfishness has a negative connotation. the probelsm with criminals, and this is how this got started, is not thatthey act selfish, but that their actions, slefish or not, have caused harm to others. certain actions were extremely cruel or malicious, and i suport the death penalty for them. however, the death penalty has been so abused i would curtail it. butthere are stillpeople, like the unabomber, or jeffrey dahmer, or that guy who shot up the subway, whom i would wholeheartedly support being put to death. and that's a selfish desire, born out of a need i have for vengeance. - -- "Neither Bush nor Gore is President. As reassuring as that is, it can't last." Bill Maher ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 02:04:12 -0600 From: "Judith Lloyd" Subject: Welcome, Christmas >>While we're on the subject of Projekt, are there any Black Tape, Lycia, or Love Spirals Downward >>fans out there? I'll take all three, thankyouverymuch-- pickleman, pickleman happy happy pickleman pickleman, pickleman he's your best friend. (a cyber rose to anyone else who knows where that came from!) I really like Soul Whirling Somewhere too--is Michael Plaster still making music? > I recently picked up "Excelsis, A Dark Noel" (the title caught my eye) which I believe includes songs by all three of those groups. > It is also the best Christmas album I have ever listened to. Really. So far, anyway. > The cover of "Welcome Christmas" (from the original Grinch movie!) by Love Spirals Downward was especially > good. I recommend it. It is an EXCELLENT Christmas album; begins with this utterly harrowing version of "Carol of the Bells" by Arcanta, that LSD track is pure light, there's a rousing "Winter's Wassail" by Faith & the Muse, Lovesliescrushing claims to do Jingle Bells; the festivities close with Attrition's freaky back-stair things go bump in the "Silent Night." One of my favorites, right up there with Loreena McKennit's "To drive the cold winter away" and Vince Guaraldi Trio's "A Charlie Brown Christmas." Has anyone heard the second projekt Christmas disk, "Winter's Song?" I saw London After Midnight on there and kind of... bought something else instead. Justified wariness? So, I'm new and forgive me if this has already been discussed at length? What are the favorite seasonal discs around the list? I just got my copy of Low's "Christmas" EP and haven't listened to it yet (thinking: we need twinkly lights in a dark room on a snowy night) anything I should be on the lookout for before the stores run out of everything? j ______________________________ "All music is folk music. I ain't never heard no horse sing a song!" --Louis Armstrong ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #355 **************************