From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #335 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Friday, November 10 2000 Volume 06 : Number 335 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Are there *any* Republicans/conservatives on this list??? [Joseph Zit] Re: Are there *any* Republicans/conservatives on this list??? [Birdie ] new ectophiles etc. [meredith ] Something lighter [Paul Blair ] Re: Are there *any* Republicans/conservatives on this list??? [jason and ] favorite instruments and new music ["JoAnn Whetsell" ] Hand to Mouth Show in Seattle [Neile Graham ] Re: election [RedWoodenBeads@aol.com] Re: election talk [RedWoodenBeads@aol.com] Re: Are there *any* Republicans/conservatives on this list??? [Paul Blair] Re: Hand to Mouth Show in Seattle [Neile Graham ] Re: politics [RedWoodenBeads@aol.com] Re: election talk [Sue Trowbridge ] Re: election talk [FAMarcus@aol.com] Re: election [Joseph Zitt ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 22:49:17 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Are there *any* Republicans/conservatives on this list??? On Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 11:21:57PM -0500, Larry Troxler wrote: > Geez, what a curse it has been to be born with a love of music, but also > with rightward political leanings :-) > > Obviously, it is not only this list, but a strange artifact of > artistically oriented people in general, that they tend to be > environmentalists, liberals, vegetarian, homosexual-aware, bla bla bla! > > Any theories as to why this is? I think it may lie in many of the arts, especially much music, being something one does not only for oneself but with others in mind, as audiences, collaborators, influences, etc. It is this concern for the good of the community at large, rather than a focus on one's own good before all else, that is what defines those of us who are proud to be considered liberal. (An interesting paradox though: the Right, while focusing their rhetoric on Individualism and Liberty, tend to cluster effectively; the Left, speaking of Community and Equality, tend to splinter and squabble. Go figure.) OTOH, I may not have a representative view, being an eager omnivore :-) - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 21:58:33 -0800 From: Birdie Subject: Re: Are there *any* Republicans/conservatives on this list??? It is because musicans and artists are intrinsically linked, inspired, energized, and connected to the divine in humanity and nature. Do you think Georgie Bush is? Birdie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 23:12:43 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Are there *any* Republicans/conservatives on this list??? On Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 09:58:33PM -0800, Birdie wrote: > It is because musicans and artists are intrinsically linked, inspired, energized, > and connected to the divine in humanity and nature. > > Do you think Georgie Bush is? I distrust this supposed alignment of the Divine with either right or left. I suspect that both candidates believe themselves to be in line with the divine (after all, Gore did a stint in divinity school and Bush has Billy Graham as a confidant). To the extent that the divine exists and can be identified (I'm a hopeful agnostic), people I know on both sides of the political fence would seem to me to be tuned in to it. There is a danger in politico-religious rhetoric of assuming that God Is On Our Side, whatever one's side may be, and to whatever extent that alignment might come from one's own experience or early acculturation. A look at current events in Jerusalem can reveal bugs in that assumption. Perhaps the best statement on the Left/Right balance came from Rabbi Hillel (Pirkei Avot 1:14): "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, when?" (But politically, I'm still mostly on the Left :-]) - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 22:59:33 -0600 From: "ReNeEz DaBoMb" Subject: RE: Hi I'm New! I'm 21, but i joined the list when i was 18! ~Renee N.P- Beth Ortan-Central reservation - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Julio Ortega" Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 18:01:34 -0300 thanks rene! how old are you? - ----- Original Message ----- From: ReNeEz DaBoMb To: Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 5:21 PM Subject: Re: Hi I'm New! > Hello Julio.. welcome aboard... > I'm glad you joined... Us young ectos need to stick together (TeeHee) > hope you enjoy the list > ~Renee > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Julio Ortega" > Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:00:41 -0300 > > Hello! im new to the ecto list. I was weary about joining in until I got the > mail of Happy's new site, and somehow that convinced me! > My name is julio and im 19 years old. I am from argentina (south America) > Thanks for reading this! > > julio > > > > -- > ThIs Is WhY pEoPle Od On PiLlS, aNd JuMp FrOm ThE gOlDeN gAtE bRiDgE... aNy ThInG tO fEeL wEiGhTlEsS aGaIn! > -- - -- ThIs Is WhY pEoPle Od On PiLlS, aNd JuMp FrOm ThE gOlDeN gAtE bRiDgE... aNy ThInG tO fEeL wEiGhTlEsS aGaIn! - -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 23:58:06 -0500 From: meredith Subject: new ectophiles etc. Hi! To the new folk who have introduced themselves in the past couple days: welcome! Don't be afraid -- we usually talk about music. Really. Loretta noted: >Or even Joni. "I am a lonely painter, I live in box of paints"? What >the heck is that?I love that song but every time I hear that line I just >sort of shake my head. Funny -- that's always been one of my favorite lines. Especially as sung by Tori in her version -- the way she anunciates "box of paints" just kills me every time. P.S. I didn't detect anything even remotely resembling an attack in Chuck's reply to your pist. Did you get a post sent to you directly that didn't make it to the list? Joe responded: >Did people actually vote for someone who >believes that they are stupid? Yes. Not only that, but people actually voted for someone who IS stupid. Half the country did, as a matter of fact. Kinda makes it difficult to get up in the morning, knowing that. Lyle mentioned: >As they inaugurate whichever rich son of a politician is on the stand in = >January, just hum "Won't Get Fooled Again" to yourself. "Meet the new = >boss. Same as the old boss." Interestingly enough, Junior used that exact song to kick off a rally in Little Rock the day before the election. (But his campaign edited out the line about the boss.) +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 00:14:46 -0500 From: Paul Blair Subject: Something lighter *The Onion* has wasted no time in declaring a disjunctive victor. "Bush Or Gore: 'A New Era Dawns'" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 00:33:37 -0500 (EST) From: jason and jill Subject: Re: Are there *any* Republicans/conservatives on this list??? On Thu, 9 Nov 2000, Larry Troxler wrote: > Geez, what a curse it has been to be born with a love of music, but also > with rightward political leanings :-) > > Obviously, it is not only this list, but a strange artifact of > artistically oriented people in general, that they tend to be > environmentalists, liberals, vegetarian, homosexual-aware, bla bla bla! Let's put it this way, instead of asking why they are that way, why not ask what modern conservativism has to offer somone with artistic interests, other than the tax cut promies (thereby saving me the trouble of a macroeconomic argument concerning the uselessness of a tax cut when the growth rate is already at the highest level sustainable w/out triggering inflation, higher interest rates, or both, thereby expending any long-term value of the tax cut)? Seriously--except for a few forms of art that are useful status symbols, ie classical music from Bach through Tchaikovsky only, opera from Mozart through Wagner only, exhibitions of long dead and well known painters, etc., since roughly the late 1940's conservatives have shown disdain for artists, art afficianados, anyone that claims to have read more three books in a year, etc. Is it any wonder that artistic folks wouldn't have much use for a generally pedestrian political philosophy (market, market market Chicago school economy mixed with George Wallacite social exclusion as translated by Buchanan having replaced pretty much any previous conservative "thinkers") that regards those artistic folks as being a bunch of useless, wimpy, unprofitable, whining fags? Jason ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 00:34:00 EST From: "JoAnn Whetsell" Subject: favorite instruments and new music Hi all. Welcome to the newbies. I don't post often anymore, but I read daily, and thank everyone for giving me lots to think about. On the favorite instruments theme (I know, I'm late), I always get very excited to hear mandolins. I love cellos too, and I like the use of accordion (a la Veda Hille, Katell Keinig) and bagpipes. So it was really great to finally get Milladoiro's new album (I haven't heard any of their other ones actually), called "Auga de Maio." The group is from the Galicia region of Spain, and the music is very Celtic-influenced. It actually sounds more Celtic with Spanish and occasional Middle Eastern influence than the other way around. Anyway, it's quite beautiful, mostly instrumental (12 of the 15 tracks I think) with guest vocals on the other 3 or so. And there are wonderful festive bagpipes throughout. I also picked up "Excelsis vol. 2: a winter's song" dirt cheap at the Virgin megastore in NYC cd blow-out. It's a collection of Christmas/holiday songs by ethereal/goth/industrial bands. I know Rhea's Obsession, Siddal, Thanatos, and Lycia have been mentioned on ecto, and of course Lynn Canfield (of Moon 7 Times and other groups); they're all on here. Off to bed. JoAnn np: "Tree of Life" by Lila Downs nr: "All Things Censored" by Mumia Abu-Jamal _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:43:54 +1100 (EST) From: Amanda Williams Subject: NOTE: OFF-TOPIC: US Voting System Hi there As an Australian, I have been watching all this political debate sometimes with annoyance, mostly with interest. I feel for all the minor candidates who have no hope of getting in, and the people that vote for them because ultimately, their vote does not decide who gets in the White House. I am just curious that what are people's thoughts on the Preferential Voting System, where the votes of the candidates who are falling out of the race, are then tacked on to their designated preferences? These votes are not worth a full vote - the amount is worked out depending on the "quota"..I can't remember the proper equation for it, but you get the general idea. We have this system in Australia in the House of Representatives, and it seems to work fairly well. Amanda ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ooooooooooooooooooo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ '"Must!" Is "must" a word to be addressed to princes? Little man, little man! Thy father, if he had been alive, durst not have used that word.' - -Elizabeth I to Robert Cecil, on being asked to name her successor while on her deathbed (well death cushions, really :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 17:46:37 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: Hand to Mouth Show in Seattle Unfortunately, I will be out of town, otherwise I wouldn't miss this: Hand To Mouth's cd release concert for _Weightless_ Saturday, November 18th the Cabaret at the Nortwest Actors Studio 1100 E. Pike St. on Capitol Hill Doors open at 8, show starts at 8:30 $7 suggested donation at the door (there will be a full bar available, but minors are welcome) for more information and to reserve seating, 206-324-6328 For a description of their work see their Ectophiles' Guide entry at http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/guide.cgi?artists/hand.to.mouth.html - --Neile - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:24:23 EST From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: Re: election In a message dated 11/9/00 4:17:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, jzitt@metatronpress.com writes: << No, Bush believes that people who make a lot of money should get even more. >> That isn't true. Bush clearly stated repeatedly during the debates that he favoured across the board tax cuts for everyone who pays taxes. Gore's "wealthiest 1%" accusations aren't in line with what Bush believes. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:27:32 EST From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: Re: election talk In a message dated 11/9/00 8:33:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org writes: << Not that I'm any great Bush enthusiast. Some of us believe that individuals should get to keep *all* the money they earn, regardless of how much, and that government has no business taking from some people to give to others, regardless of the need of the recipients. >> that is exactly what i believe. the day the democrats announce they agree is the day I support them. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:32:51 -0500 From: Paul Blair Subject: Re: Are there *any* Republicans/conservatives on this list??? Larry Troxler wrote: >Obviously, it is not only this list, but a strange artifact of >artistically oriented people in general, that they tend to be >environmentalists, liberals, vegetarian, homosexual-aware, bla bla >bla! > >Any theories as to why this is? I have a hypothesis. Our culture in general suffers from a soul-body dichotomy, from a philosophical outlook that separates the spiritual and the material and sets them against each other. Thus on the one hand you have a group of people that prioritizes the spiritual and scorns materialism, money, success, industry, etc. It's not surprising you would find artists in this group since they usually have to give less of a priority to material success in order to focus on their work . But the root of the scorn for material concerns is philosophical. Not surprisingly, the anti-materialists have counterparts in the "practical" areas of life who focus on material values to the exclusion of spiritual ones. These are two sides of the same coin. They share the view that the two realms are incompatible and that human beings have a dual metaphysical citizenship, one side of which they must renounce. They therefore see sacrifice as an inherent part of life--the spiritualists sacrifice themselves for spiritual reasons, while the materialists sacrifice others for material gain. Neither side sees human beings as metaphysically integrated, self-sustaining, independent organisms whose existence needs no external justification. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 22:53:08 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: Hand to Mouth Show in Seattle Oops! to see the Hand to Mouth page you need to leave off the .html, so the correct link is: >http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/guide.cgi?artists/hand.to.mouth Sorry about that. - --Neile P.S. Thanks, everyone, for keeping the political comments on pages with clear subject lines about that for the people who want to skip these discussions. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:44:15 EST From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: Re: politics In a message dated 11/9/00 8:33:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org writes: << I am not at all ridiculing that type of mentailty - rather, I'm wondering why there seems to be a link between artistic personalities, and that type of political view. Is it perhaps genetic? Maybe the type of brain that is wired for art also typically is wired towards left-tending political views? Or is it environmental/social, because some existing correlation feeds on itself, so that someone artistically or musically inclined, tends to interact with people who are also left-political, which tends to further fuel the correlation? >> I think that may be somewhat of a stereotype. I mean, everyone I know who is artistic and interested in enriching themselves with music and literature is right wing, but that's mainly because a lot of people I know do not support abortion. I think there may be more people who are left-wing and artistic, but there's still plenty of right wing artists out there, and I would imagine they are more unique than the cliche "Michael Stipe/Bono" type. Personally, I feel that the most interesting people are those who don't just follow the exact template for a specific type of intellectuality. Overtly left-wing politically correct people really bore me. Extreme right-wing religious fanatics really bore me too. Someone who really is different, who really has their own distinctive ideas about specific issues and who expresses these ideas with a passion, those are the people that make for a great conversation. Personally, I am really turned off by religion and I almost have a left-wing point of view about spirituality and governing your life. But I'm pro-life and I believe in smaller government and people having the right to keep the money they earn. I don't support the death penalty and I think we should make it easier for immigrants to achieve U.S. citizenship. I really dislike communism and the very idea of the state owning everything. But I like reading Jack Kerouac. So I have kind of a broad and colorful perspective on things. I think Natalie Merchant is a very distinct person, or from what I've heard she is. I have heard numerous times that she is pro-life, and she's also very supportive of environmental protection. She also said in an old interview that she "stays away" from televisions. Don and Karen Peris of The Innocence Mission are supposedly devoted Catholics, which I think is really interesting and makes their perspective very unique in the "rock" world. Michael Stipe, on the other hand, who is totally politically correct in every way is just incredibly boring (even though I love his music). And Ted Nugent (who's music I despise) who is just a right-wing extremist disgusts me. So it's not so much how right or how left you lean, it's what kind of a distinct and genuine human being you are. Anyone else feel like that? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 22:47:08 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Trowbridge Subject: Re: election talk On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 RedWoodenBeads@aol.com wrote: > << Not that I'm any great Bush enthusiast. Some of us believe that > individuals should get to keep *all* the money they earn, regardless > of how much, and that government has no business taking from some > people to give to others, regardless of the need of the recipients. >> > > that is exactly what i believe. the day the democrats announce they agree is > the day I support them. Actually, that sounds like the Libertarian point of view, not Republican. According to a recent article about the Libertarian party in the East Bay Express newspaper (one of our free weeklies here in the Bay Area), hardcore Libertarians don't even believe that the government should take tax money *at all*, even for such things as building & maintaining roads, employing police, public schools, etc. Privatize EVERYTHING. George W still wants to take your tax dollars for things like public schools, emergency services, the military, and countless other things. So remember, if you REALLY want to get the government off your back and want to keep EVERY cent you earn, you really should look into joining the Libertarian Party. And you should have voted for Harry Browne, not GWB. - --Sue Trowbridge (not a Libertarian, but I do find their point of view interesting if impractical) trow@slip.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:49:47 EST From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: election talk In a message dated 11/10/00 1:40:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, RedWoodenBeads@aol.com writes: << Not that I'm any great Bush enthusiast. Some of us believe that individuals should get to keep *all* the money they earn, regardless of how much, and that government has no business taking from some people to give to others, regardless of the need of the recipients. >> that is exactly what i believe. the day the democrats announce they agree is the day I support them. >> MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:07:57 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: election On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 01:24:23AM -0500, RedWoodenBeads@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/9/00 4:17:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, > jzitt@metatronpress.com writes: > > << No, Bush believes that people who make a lot of money should get even > more. >> > > That isn't true. Bush clearly stated repeatedly during the debates that he > favoured across the board tax cuts for everyone who pays taxes. Gore's > "wealthiest 1%" accusations aren't in line with what Bush believes. OK, let me amend that: It may well be possible that Bush may not believe that his policies would have this effect. Which is where belief and information part ways. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #335 **************************