From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #276 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, September 19 2000 Volume 06 : Number 276 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Al Gore [kitty kat ] Re: Al Gore [Mark Miazga ] Re: mbv [american damon ] Re: Al Gore ["Chad Lundgren" ] Re: david, moxy, equation.... additions to my website [RedWoodenBeads@aol] Re: equation [neal copperman ] Gore "quotes" ["Adam K." ] Re: Al Gore [RavFlight@aol.com] Re: equation [Billi Mazur ] Re: is it possible? [Billi Mazur ] Re: Saying Hello [Billi Mazur ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:10:16 -0700 (PDT) From: kitty kat Subject: Re: Al Gore Now, now - Al Gore makes jokes about it all the time, about him inventing this or that or the other thing. He handled it very well, and I think most people consider it a good natured gaffe that is endearing, as opposed to Dan Quayle's stuff, that just proved he was an idiot. Any time _I_ make an "invented the internet" joke, there is no scorn involved whatsoever, and I'd give Phil the benefit of the doubt, too. It's worth a smirk and a giggle, not getting upset over. - -K On 18 Sep 2000 dsr@mail.lns.cornell.edu wrote: > Phil Hudson writes: > > "This is a risky anti-candle scheme!" > > ~Al Gore if he'd been there for the invention of the light bulb > > > > And five years after the rapid proliferation of electric lighting, Gore > > would claim he had invented the bulb. > > I apologize for continuing this ridiculous thread, but I'm afraid > this really does get my hackles up... > > You're obviously referring to Al Gore's "creating the Internet" > quote, and you're wildly off base. > > Al Gore started championing the internet and a national information > infrastructure in the mid 80s--how many of you (outside the ecto old > timers--you know who you are) had even heard of the internet in 1985? > Al Gore was in fact *way* in front of the curve on the internet, and > was probably the first national politician to realize its importance. > There's a good chance that the Internet _would_not_exist_ in its > current form without the legislation Gore sponsored and the work he > did popularizing the idea of an *open* national (and international) > network. Yes, saying he created the internet was an exaggeration, and > he has apologized for it repeatedly, but there is *NO WAY* he deserves > the ridicule that the RNC and the ignorant have heaped on him for that > quote. Al Gore did do a lot to create the internet and he deserves > some credit for his real contributions. > > This will, I hope, be the last I say about this on ecto--I'll try > to keep my followups off the list. > > np: Shostakovich symphony no. 7, Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra > nr: Charles Ferguson, "High St@kes, No Prisoners", Diffie and Landau, > "Privacy on the Line: the Politics of Wiretapping and Encryption", > and re-reading Melissa Scott's "The Shapes of their Hearts" > > -dan (who has been using the internet since before it existed) > - -- - ------------- "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." - Niels Bohr - ------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:07:08 -0400 From: Mark Miazga Subject: Re: Al Gore > Phil Hudson writes: > > "This is a risky anti-candle scheme!" > > ~Al Gore if he'd been there for the invention of the light bulb > > > > And five years after the rapid proliferation of electric lighting, Gore > > would claim he had invented the bulb. This is referring to the misleading ads that Dubya is running. In actuality, this is a quote from Gore taken out of context, combined with a bit of mis-speaking on Al's part. The exact quotation was, "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." The quotation referred to Al Gore spearheading funding and Internet initiatives while a Congressman - he was perhaps the first politician to recognize the importance of the Internet. The fact that Dubya is taking the quotation, twisting it around, and making it seem as if Gore said he had invented the Internet makes him the far more dishonest man than Gore is. Here's an interesting article on the subject: (From http://www.perkel.com/politics/gore/internet.htm) The Issue is Trust Let's say the Associated Press or Time Magazine wants to consider me for a job. I'd have to whisk together a resume that might include the following: "My column appears regularly on the award-winning editorial page of the Mountain Democrat." Of course, I had nothing to do with winning the award, earned by Editor Michael Raffety. He did, though, let me park on his illustrious page. So nobody could fault me for basking in his reflected glory. Unless, of course, I were running for president. Exhibit A is Al Gore. People eager to lie about him continue to portray him as a liar. First lie, that he claims to have "invented" the Internet. Second lie, that he claims to have "discovered" the pollution of Love Canal. Third lie, that he falsely claims to be the model for Oliver Barrett IV, hero of Love Story. Gore never claimed that he "invented" the Internet, which implies that he engineered the technology. The invention occurred in the seventies and allowed scientists in the Defense Department to communicate with each other. In a March 1999 interview with Wolf Blitzer, Gore said, "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." Taken in context, the sentence, despite some initial ambiguity, means that as a congressman Gore promoted the system we enjoy today, not that he could patent the science, though that's how the quotation has been manipulated. Hence the disingenuous substitution of "inventing" for the actual language. For a heady while we hoped that the Bush campaign would prove their man to be the champion of honesty and integrity that he pretends to be, especially for those looking for a squeaky clean new White House. A couple of weeks ago the campaign rejected a shoddy commercial showing Gore saying that Clinton never told a lie. Problem was that the clip showed an interview from 1994, long before Clinton ever heard of Monica Lewinsky. To his credit, Bush scrapped the commercial before it aired. But as I write, his campaign is unloading a new commercial, featuring a sneer at the fragment from the Internet claim, again implying that Gore had nothing to do with the Internet's creation. At least they got the words right; it would be dangerous to doctor the tape. But the real question is what, if anything, did Gore actually do to create the modern Internet? According to Vincent Cerf, a senior vice president with MCI Worldcom who's been called the Father of the Internet, "The Internet would not be where it is in the United States without the strong support given to it and related research areas by the Vice President in his current role and in his earlier role as Senator." The inventor of the Mosaic Browser, Marc Andreesen, credits Gore with making his work possible. He received a federal grant through Gore's High Performance Computing Act. The University of Pennsylvania's Dave Ferber says that without Gore the Internet "would not be where it is today." Joseph E. Traub, a computer science professor at Columbia University, claims that Gore "was perhaps the first political leader to grasp the importance of networking the country. Could we perhaps see an end to cheap shots from politicians and pundits about inventing the Internet?" The Love Canal canard distorts a story Gore told to a high school class in Concord, New Hampshire. In answer to a question about how students could get involved in politics, Gore described a letter he'd received from a girl in West Tennessee while he was a congressman. Based on the girl's complaint about a poisoned well, he organized an investigation, which in turn led to other pollution sites, culminating in the expose of Love Canal. Referring to the well in Toone, Tennessee, Gore said, "That was the one you didn't hear of--but that was the one that started it all." The media was quick to misquote the line as "I was the one that started it all." Seemingly dissatisfied with Gore's style, the Republican National Committee improved the line thus: "I was the one who started it all." When the Concord Monitor and the Boston Globe exposed what had really been said in that high school class, the New York Times, the Washington Post and U.S. News offered grudging corrections of their reportorial errors. Some of the media's stars had rare fun with the idea that Al Gore was the kernel for Ryan O'Neal's most famous role; but no one seemed interested in finding out whether Gore was telling the truth or not. CNBC's Chris Matthews chortled. "It reminds me of Snoopy thinking he's the Red Baron." But in this case Snoopy really is the Red Baron. Erich Segal, author of Love Story, corroborated that Gore and his Harvard roommate, Tommy Lee Jones, were indeed the models for the story's main character. Given that Gore was telling the truth, what's the issue? We have an odd bit of trivia of no relevance to the election--except to those liars who want to portray Gore as a liar. All of these malicious whoppers have been exposed for over a year and have received pusillanimous apologies, often mean-spirited and grudging, from the so-called "liberal" press that promoted them. But like a corrupting disease the lies simply refuse to go away. Unless Bush gets out of the tank with the media bottom feeders, he's not going to make it, especially in an election revolving around honesty and integrity. - -- Mark Miazga miazgama@msu.edu http://go.to/MarkMiazga 157 Phillips Hall East Lansing, MI 48825 (517) 355-4991 http://www.msu.edu/~miazgama Masters of Arts in Curriculum and Teaching Student Teacher, Eastern High School Assistant Hall Director, Snyder-Phillips Hall ********************************** I Support Al Gore for US President & Debbie Stabenow for US Senate! http://www.algore2000.com http://www.stabenow2000.net/ ********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:32:42 -0400 From: american damon Subject: Re: mbv the real dick cheney wrote: > > when we last left our heroes, RedWoodenBeads@aol.com exclaimed: > > >I haven't listened to a ton of the mary chain, but i did go through a pretty > >intense MBV stage. I would say their sound was completely unconventional. > > partly unconventional. mbv's latter phase was informed significantly by the > jesus & mary chain and harkens to other noisy things such as the early > factory records repetoire. don't forget mbv's early phase which was rather > sweet and catchy but plain pop. it wasn't until _isn't anything_ was > released that the genius of _loveless_ started to be glimpsed. like, say, > ministry, mbv went through a pretty conventional phase. what's their early phase then? i can see isn't anything, and the cdsingles of that time being profoundly influenced by j&mc, but loveless wasn't anything at all like anything i'd ever heard before ever. it had as much to do with j&mc as it did with howard jones. > >Their guitar sound was completely out of this world. Who knows how they made > >half of those sounds. > > drug use and tremelo. not necessarily in that order. > > >MBV would sound unique and original no matter who produced them. > > well, they produced themselves for the most part. if they hadn't, i think a > lot of their clouded vision would have been lost. > > woj - -- People say men are genetically engineered to prefer polygamy, but you don't see that many women upset enough when their husbands leave them to shoot everybody in sight. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:34:54 -0500 From: "Chad Lundgren" Subject: Re: Al Gore 'Lo all, > > Phil Hudson writes: > > > "This is a risky anti-candle scheme!" > > > ~Al Gore if he'd been there for the invention of the light bulb > > > > > > And five years after the rapid proliferation of electric lighting, Gore > > > would claim he had invented the bulb. > > This is referring to the misleading ads that Dubya is running. In actuality, > this is a quote from Gore taken out of context, combined with a bit of > mis-speaking on Al's part. The exact quotation was, "I took the initiative in > creating the Internet." The quotation referred to Al Gore spearheading > funding and Internet initiatives while a Congressman - he was perhaps the > first politician to recognize the importance of the Internet. The fact that > Dubya is taking the quotation, twisting it around, and making it seem as if > Gore said he had invented the Internet makes him the far more dishonest man > than Gore is. First of all, George W. Bush wasn't the first to ridicule Al Gore for that gaffe. The ad that was running was just continuing the criticism. As to politicians twisting the truth to their own gains, does this really shock anyone? Honestly? Whether it's, "I don't recall selling arms to Iraq to fund the Contras" or "that all depends on your definition of sexual relations...or being alone with someone......or MOOMAN!!!...or is", both sides are equally guilty of skewing the "truth" for their own purposes. Are we supposed to believe that Bush's environmental policy in Texas is anything but abyssmal? Are we supposed to honestly believe that Al Gore was so out of the loop that he didn't know that his Buddhist temple visit was a fundraiser? How stupid do they assume we are. The sad truth is that most elections are about the lesser of two evils. You vote for the person who adnocates the issues that you feel are the most important to you and help the country and you try to look past the typical political b.s. that most candidatesare guilty of.. I'd die of shock if I actually had a candidate to vote for that I didn't have reservations about. Morpheus fades away.... Chad ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:33:54 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: Re: david, moxy, equation.... additions to my website In a message dated 9/18/00 6:49:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org writes: << >But at any rate, I got the new David Gray album, WHITE LADDER, and man it's >great. One of the best blendings of acoustic folk with electronic samples. our cable system has been previewing m2 this week and we've seen the "babylon" video more than a few times. not bad of a song and it catches your ear with repeated listenings but that didn't strike me as an acoustic folk song with electonic samples. is that song typical of the album? or just the emphasis track which makes you buy the record but doesn't sound like anything else on the album? That's pretty typical of the album. It could've been any tack on m2. >Also got a hold of a new one by Moxy Fruvous called WOOD. Really good David >Byrne influenced-noise-funk-folk kinda stuff. Probably good for somebody who >likes Talking Heads, The English Beat or something like that. no offense but that's the strangest description of moxy fruvous i've ever read! where do you hear the david byrne influence? fruvous is more of a busking comedy troupe turned pop group. i've never really cared for their albums but have enjoyed the live sets (though, frankly, even they have grown tiring over time). None taken. I admit, I use the comparrison loosely. I hear somewhat of a comparrison, not a really blatant one though. Talking Heads are actually one of my all time fav bands. I can't think of anything by them I'm not into. >And I just now managed to get the new album from europe's Equation, who's >last record was a favorite of mine. This has got to be my favorite new group. >Very folkish, kind of a 21st century Fairport Convention. The singer's name >is Kathryn Roberts. sounds interesting -- thanks for the tip! >> No prob, glad to be of service! Additions to The Impryan Emporium: Downy Mildew http://www.angelfire.com/indie/impryan/downy.html Equation http://www.angelfire.com/indie/impryan/equation.html Vagabond Lovers http://www.angelfire.com/indie/impryan/vagabond.html Joe http://www.angelfire.com/indie/impryan "This is a risky anti-candle scheme!" ~Al Gore if he'd been there for the invention of the light bulb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:03:59 -0600 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: equation At 2:50 PM -0700 9/18/00, Neile Graham wrote: >RedWoodenBeads@aol.com wrote: > >>And I just now managed to get the new album from europe's Equation, who's >>last record was a favorite of mine. This has got to be my favorite new group. >>Very folkish, kind of a 21st century Fairport Convention. The singer's name >>is Kathryn Roberts. Her voice is really different, it's simultaneously >>delicate and powerful, I haven't heard anything like it. Two brothers in the >>band write all the songs. Wonderful group. > >Just wanted to say that this is definitely a Your Mileage May Vary group, >as I got a copy of their first album from a friend and found it so bland as >to be unplayable. It reminded me of two other groups I dislike: The Corrs >and Grey Eye Glances. So for those of you who like those latter two groups >you might want to check them out, but for those like me who find this is >the kind of thing that makes them race to the "stop" button on their disc >players, well, it's a must to avoid. Wow, thanks for the YMMMV comments. I'm definitely with you in my lack of interest in those two groups, and those comparisons are very valuable to me. neal np: Deborah Bartley at R.B. Winnings ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:01:32 +0100 From: "Adam K." Subject: Gore "quotes" Yeah, beware of what comes over the wire. A few months ago, at my place of work, we got a circular e-mail purporting to be a list of Gore's inept "quotes", complete with the dates he was supposed to have made them and the places they were supposed to have been made, to vouch for their authenticity. Problem was, they were obviously not his, and we even recognised one of them as already having been attributed to Dan Quayle. The smear campaign started early. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 00:54:17 EDT From: RavFlight@aol.com Subject: Re: Al Gore In a message dated 9/18/2000 8:59:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, hiptones@wi.rr.com writes: << I'd die of shock if I actually had a candidate to vote for that I didn't have reservations about. >> We're Ectos here... how can we be having this discussion, be e-mails into this discussion, and not be talking about Ralph Nader. I'm working for his campaign, and while I feel that he probably can't win, but it does raise the issue of what I think our generation's vital flaw is. We're upset, cynical, and certainly not happy with our situation....we hem and haw over the fact that things aren't the way we would like them, but of course the candidates are the lesser of two evils. The two parties are owned by big money and big corporations? But do we do anything? No.. when the night is over we say, well, of the two, I guess I'd rather have Gore. (And of the two, I would rather have Gore) And many of us don't show up at all. (Out of apathy or disgust, I don't know which) Fact is, that if we were to step up to this plate and say, you know what, I don't like either of them..so I am voting for a 3rd party candidate..ANY third party candidate... things would be SO much different. I don't care if you vote Nader or not. Vote for the most off the wall candidate there is. (Anyone but Buchannan, and you're good in my books)..but we're not going to move mountains by whining about it. We have more power than any youth generation that has come for 100 years.. the question is, are we going to do anything with it? Just make a statement..a comment.. Clean out the coffers. It's time to start things over.. freshen things up. Sure, eventually the 3rd parties will be corrupt, and we'll do it again. But it's time that in a democracy, we have more than two (and arguably, with as much moderatism in the parties, one) parties to choose from. There are many more issues on the table that two platforms can cover. People need to be represented. It is a necessity in the place that we live. Anyhow, those are my thoughts. Thanks for the nickel that was never offered. :) RavFlight@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:19:28 -0700 From: Billi Mazur Subject: Re: equation Neile and my fellow Ectophiles, I had a brief glimpse of Kate Rusby's voice recently when Billi and I were in Europe. She was featured on a documetary program on what I believe was the European subsidiary of CNN. The program was called World Beat (I believe). They also featured another artist from the new English folk scene, Eliza Carthy (I think that's her correct name. Any relation to Martin Carthy?). I liked what little I heard of both women. Can you recommend a good starting point for both of them. Please give me some specifics. BTW, I have meant to ask this for awhile and am just now getting around to it. The post reminded me. Thanks in advance! Bill Neile Graham wrote: > RedWoodenBeads@aol.com wrote: > > >And I just now managed to get the new album from europe's Equation, who's > >last record was a favorite of mine. This has got to be my favorite new group. > >Very folkish, kind of a 21st century Fairport Convention. The singer's name > >is Kathryn Roberts. Her voice is really different, it's simultaneously > >delicate and powerful, I haven't heard anything like it. Two brothers in the > >band write all the songs. Wonderful group. > > Just wanted to say that this is definitely a Your Mileage May Vary group, > as I got a copy of their first album from a friend and found it so bland as > to be unplayable. It reminded me of two other groups I dislike: The Corrs > and Grey Eye Glances. So for those of you who like those latter two groups > you might want to check them out, but for those like me who find this is > the kind of thing that makes them race to the "stop" button on their disc > players, well, it's a must to avoid. > > Also, some people may remember that Kathryn Roberts did a duo recording > with Kate Rusby. I like Kate Rusby but didn't like the duets much, either. > Along that line I far prefer Anita Best & Pamela Morgan's _The Colour of > Amber_ or Silly Sisters. > > Taste is a weird thing. > > --Neile > > P.S. The final listing of my discs for sale is at > http://www.sff.net/people/neile/discsale.htp. Shortly the few remaining > discs will disappear into used disc stores in Seattle. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net > Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines > The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:26:24 -0700 From: Billi Mazur Subject: Re: is it possible? Meth, Spinal Tap is a classic! The difference between Spinal Tap and the band that Joe described is that The Tap could actually write and play some pretty interesting music. Again, this is only my subjective opinion. ;-) I am a proud owner of The Black Album and the video of Spinal Tap. It is the ultimate rockumentary! :-) If you haven't seen it yet, check it out in your local theatre. Bill meredith wrote: > Hi! > > Bill mused: > > >Actually, what would probably happen is as follows: > > > > Congratulations, you just described Spinal Tap! > > (The movie _This Is Spinal Tap_ was just re-released to theaters. If you > all haven't seen it, because you weren't born yet when it was originally > out or whatever, you must. It remains hilarious and brilliant, > particularly if you list Behind The Music as a favorite TV show...) > > +==========================================================================+ > | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | > | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | > +==========================================================================+ > | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | > | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | > | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | > +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:53:37 -0700 From: Billi Mazur Subject: Re: Saying Hello Welcome Lyle! Enjoy your stay here in the Fuzzy Blue habitat. The natives are generally friendly and the musical landscape is lush. Congrats on finding the extremely rare Happy CDs. :-) tenthvictim@mindspring.com wrote: > I just joined the list and wanted to say hello. I have enjoyed the > discussion of aesthetics. You guys set me off on an internal monologue > in which I have been evaluating what makes something a lasting work of > art. Without going into great detail, I think art is perceived by each > generation in a new way. What was beautiful in the past and what is > beautiful now may not be viewed the same in the future. > > I am also writing to brag about walking into my local used book and > records store on Saturday, casually looking under 'R' and finding The > Keep. The same day I drove to Dallas and found a copy of Warpaint in a > funky little record (CD?) store. It's been a Happy Rhodes-intense > weekend. These CDs are cut-outs. I am hoping Aural Gratification got > the profit on these and the store that sold them took the tax write-off. > (P.S., I also loaded up on Bedhead, a good defunct, local band.) > > Thanks to the people who posted narratives of the Ectofest and photos of > the day. Made me feel as if I had been there. Minus the music, of > course. Maybe next year I will be in one of the photos. Short of > Project Lo getting to DFW, I don't see how else I will be able to make > sure Happy Rhodes is not using a vocoder and digital delay to get those > baritone sounds. The mountain may have to go to Connecticut. (P.S., > Judee Sill did use faster tape speeds in the 70s to get bass and > baritone sounds. Can you imagine what pain must be involved in > synchronizing those tones with other tracks running at the usual speed?) > > I just heard the tail end of "Shenandoah" by Jane Siberry on KERA. Mere > days ago I read some article where the writer wrote, in effect, anyone > who sings "Shenandoah" should be killed. I didn't realize the song > aroused such passion in folks. It is certainly easy to play on a > harmonica. (P.S., The DJ played several Siberry cuts and he said four > people had called to ask who it was and three had called to ask who it > was and say they hated it.) > > Enough blather. > Bye, > Lyle > > n.p. Mark Dwane, The Monuments of Mars. The first time I saw n.p. > whatever, I thought, "Well who cares?" But then I realized that's the > point of a board like this. You get to nose around in other people's > lives, and let them nose around in yours. I care what you guys are > listening to. ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #276 **************************