From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #266 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, September 12 2000 Volume 06 : Number 266 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: marr [surdamon ] Re: lush & the smiths? [surdamon ] Recent changes to the Ectophiles' Guide ["The Ectophiles' Guide" ] aging rock stars [dmw ] RE: aging rock stars ["Foghorn J Fornorn" ] RE: can she sing?/hero worship ["Loretta Pontillo" ] RE: ectowest [Phil Hudson ] can't quite resist (10% madonna content) [dmw ] Guide notification list [kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white)] RE: Guide notification list ["Loretta Pontillo" ] Guide notification list [Steve VanDevender ] RE: ectowest [kitty kat ] SONiA of disappear fear in Australia (NIGC) [Sherlyn Koo ] Many discs for sale [Neile Graham ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 05:16:25 -0400 From: surdamon Subject: Re: marr RedWoodenBeads@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/10/00 9:24:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org writes: > > << Johnny Marr was one of the > > greatest and most original guitarist of his generation, subtle and rhythmic > > while being bold and powerful, elegant while retaining a sublime agression > > that is simply umatched. > > > oh, nonsense. > robert smith was a better and more innovative guitarist. > just for one. >> > > Now that's nonsense. Robert Smiths wasn't and never will be half the > guitarist Johnny Marr is. he did more interesting stuff on his first disc than marr did since. since then, he's departed the guitar innovation for making wildly innovative and extremely good albums. unlike the smiths, who were pretty consistent, every cure album that came out for 15 years was different and progressive. - -- "We have a budget surplus but a deficit in values"- George W. Bush, ignoring the lowest crime rates and the greatest focus on human rights in a generation, instead choosing to attack his opponent. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 05:22:13 -0400 From: surdamon Subject: Re: lush & the smiths? RedWoodenBeads@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/10/00 9:24:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org writes: > > << i'd say lush is better than the smiths. > > certainly more innovative. > >> > > In what way? Lush owed MUCH of their style to My Bloody Valentine. not by the time they got to split. Perhaps > they added their own trademark to it, but they certainly didn't create their > own genre such as The Smiths. not sure genre is the right word, and stil don't see how their jangly pop is much different than echo and the bunnymen or even early cure. Perhaps you might prefer Lush over The Smiths, > but let's not be completely ignorant. The Smiths had an impact on the course > of both indie and popular music that Lush cannot even begin to compare to. maybe they did. nirvana certainly had the same effect, although they made music that had been done previously and better by the likes of the jesus and mary chain, or even the wedding present, not to mention early mbv. In > addition, Lush has had an obvious influence on almost no one. The Smiths > influence is well apparent in the work of James, Travis, Belle & Sebastion, > The Cranberries, The Verve, The Sundays and nearly every other really > innovative and interesting group to follow them (including Lush). which is why i disntinctly ignored using the term influential. tho i'd rate james as much much better than the smiths, more musically innovative, and also lyrics that kick morrisey's ass. Other > artists, such as Smashing Pumpkins and The Pixies, who don't even sound > remotely like The Smiths (but have been very important in modern music) admit > strong Smiths influence. Lush was a great group, but The Smiths were pioneers. because the beatles didn't exist! - -- "We have a budget surplus but a deficit in values"- George W. Bush, ignoring the lowest crime rates and the greatest focus on human rights in a generation, instead choosing to attack his opponent. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 04:17:01 -0700 From: "The Ectophiles' Guide" Subject: Recent changes to the Ectophiles' Guide Latest changes to the Ectophiles' Guide 10 September 2000 New Guide entries added for: * The Cardigans (by request) * Fuzzy Logic * Debra Guy Changes made to the entries for: * Patty Larkin (new album) * Dar Williams (new album) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are receiving this email because you have asked to be notified of updates to the Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music at http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/. If you are no longer interested in receiving these notifications, please unsubscribe yourself using the form at http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/guide.cgi?newsubscribe&action=unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:27:25 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: Re: ecto-digest V6 #264 > I'm afraid I don't have much good to say about Metalica Then say nothing. The more you write, Joe, the more ignorance you demonstrate (Metallica is easy to play?). Yes, it's unfortunate that this discussion has gotten a little personal, but you bring it on yourself by being so belligerently uninformed, narrow-minded and judgmental. No, being young doesn't make your opinions worthless. Your opinions are obnoxious and half-formed for their own reasons, and your age is just one theory about why. In a real physical gathering you'd behave this way for about five minutes before everybody around you got tired of it and made you cut it out. Online, unfortunately, the same feedback mechanisms are producing the opposite response. Anyway, back just briefly to the subject (or what *was* the subject, before your random and destructive digression into the Smiths, who have little to nothing to do with Ecto), I'm pretty confident that if _Ray of Light_ had been released by some unknown 24-year-old Canadian, it would have been hailed on this list as genius. I think we, like most insular little subcultures, let our cliqueishness color our judgment, and it's worth some effort, on our part, to try to rise above that tendency. I'm not saying everybody here should or would love _Ray of Light_, but it changed *my* opinion of Madonna, so it might change yours. glenn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:01:15 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: aging rock stars On Sun, 10 Sep 2000, Ted wrote: > At some point in a person's life they become old, square, and impotent. [...] > They start growing hair in places they never thought hair could grow. *snarf!!* you don't have a good handle on this aging thing, do you? no, but seriously. friends & i were talking the other night about the perception that you can't be an old rock'n'roller and be vigorous, creative, vital...a bit odd considering that in most fields of artistic endeavor, it is not uncommon for the greatest works to be produced from the 30's to the 50's, at least, after the artist has refined his/her craft. (the mozarts of the world & people whose first novel is the only one worth reading notwithstanding...) we all felt a lot better after someone brought up Neil Young. also, it seems to me, the world hasn't yet *seen* all that many old rock stars, rock star being a fairly new phenomenon, and many of the principles having taken themselves off the playing field (through death, retirement, whatever). - -- d., growing less hair in more places np borodin s.q. l.v.b. s.q. 13 Bb (op.130) - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:03:04 -0400 From: "Foghorn J Fornorn" Subject: RE: aging rock stars I recently (end July) saw Jethro Tull on their swing thru the northeast US. Seeing Ian Anderson (age 53 I think?) jumping around the stage on one leg - made me feel younger just watching him. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:11:33 -0400 From: "Loretta Pontillo" Subject: RE: can she sing?/hero worship okay, this thread has already gotten so big, I might as well weigh in. Madonna's voice is not tip-top, but it's decent. Just to put it in perspective, Mariah Carey has a lovely singing voice, but she uses it for evil. Or to put it another way: Maybe Madonna's no celine dion, but at least she's no celine dion!! I bought Ray of Light because I heard William Orbit was working on it, and I love She Cries Your Name by Beth Orton (and Beth Orton is very very ecto, so if you guys don't know her, I'd be very surprised...), the one William co-produced or whatever. And Ray of Light generally kicks ass. I like to play Frozen on guitar. It sounds pretty nifty. Email me offlist if you want the chords... btw, I grew up on Madonna and I have to say it didn't do me any harm. I remember thinking as a little girl that most "singers" on the radio were men, but that if Madonna and Cyndi Lauper were on the radio too, that it was okay for girls to sing on the radio and not just in opera. Those were my thoughts at about 6 years of age. She was my hero! Who cares if she's not a brilliant musician? Loretta proud owner of Ray of Light and Like a Prayer but not a fan of the song "music" which is quite dull. well, they can't all be winners. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:15:04 -0700 From: Phil Hudson Subject: RE: ectowest "...The miles aren't transferrable, but I can purchase a ticket for someoneelse. No big deal... > American Airlines miles are transferable. I got a ticket for a friend this year, no problems. I don't know about any of the others. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:44:54 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: can't quite resist (10% madonna content) 1. CRUSTRATION: Bloom 2. MADONNA: Ray Of Light 3. J. J. CALE: Guitar Man 4. SCOTT WALKER: Tilt 5. BEE GEES: Still Waters 6. W. A. MOZART: Symphony No. 40, g minor 7. W. A. MOZART: Requiem 8. RICHARD WAGNER: Tannhuser 9. DAVID BOWIE: Earthling - --from a list of "Other Albums [by other artists] Klaus Schulze likes," compiled April 1998, from www.klaus-schulze.com (courtesy "Dangerous" Andy Zoom Hamlin) - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 14:01:11 -0500 (CDT) From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: Guide notification list Hi, Anyone else get the guide updates but are not subscribed to the list? I just tried to un-sub and was told that I am not a subscriber, so I couldn't be un-subscribed. bye, KrW I'm Peter Pan! I'm perpetually young!! OW!! What's wrong with my back? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:34:36 -0400 From: "Loretta Pontillo" Subject: RE: Guide notification list I have a theory that "ecto@smoe.org" is a subscriber to the guide notification list. that would explain it, no? L - -----Original Message----- From: kerrywhite@webtv.net [mailto:kerrywhite@webtv.net] Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 3:01 PM To: ecto@smoe.org Subject: Guide notification list Hi, Anyone else get the guide updates but are not subscribed to the list? I just tried to un-sub and was told that I am not a subscriber, so I couldn't be un-subscribed. bye, KrW I'm Peter Pan! I'm perpetually young!! OW!! What's wrong with my back? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:56:04 -0700 From: Steve VanDevender Subject: Guide notification list kerry white writes: > Hi, Anyone else get the guide updates but are not subscribed to the > list? I just tried to un-sub and was told that I am not a subscriber, > so I couldn't be un-subscribed. bye, The ecto mailing list as a whole is a subscriber to the Ectophile's Guide updates. So if you're on ecto you'll see the updates. This was discussed a while back and nobody seemed to object to the idea. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:41:50 -0700 (PDT) From: John Drummond Subject: recent listening Y'all: Well, yes, I know it's been awhile since I've given a proper post to the list... I'm a slacker... anyhow! So here's some stuff that's been occupying my ears and thoughts of late: Cat Power - Moon pix A friend bought this for me and it arrived yesterday (along with two other CDs that I'll go into in a minute) and I'm kicking myself for not having gotten into her sooner... I mean... good Christ. I'm pretty sure Neile has mentioned Chan Marshall's abilities... but I am enthralled... I cannot STOP listening to "Metal heart"... the lyric "i once was lost but now am find / was blind but now i see / you" is so perfectly delivered and heartbreakingly beautiful... her guitar playing is way more complex than it sounds on first listen too. And does anybody else think her voice has serious similarities with Beth Orton? It's kinda weird, they're sort of across-the-pond parallels... because Chan is very obviously American and Beth is very obviously British, both in approach and vowel timbres etc. But anyhow, the whole CD is extremely wonderful dark/dreamy American gothic lo-fi folk, for those of y'all who know not. The songs are so poignant and beautiful... "it's so hard to go into the city 'cause you want to say 'hey i love you' to everybody" *drool* I cannot understand what kept me from buying this record two years ago when it came out. *repents* Antony and the Johnsons Antony is a dark beautiful and large androgynous NYC diva and his voice is soooo sublime. His image and its power is based more in the fact of his androgyny than it is that he is a gay male... in the music, he is neither masculine nor feminine (though his voice ranges between high heavy clear tenor and weighty round baritone), but more just a force, a humanity that has been exposed and made vulnerable. If you enjoy dark-ish cabaret (Antony is, after all, a diva), this will blow your mind. For more info: www.antonyandthejohnsons.com Cynthia Dall - untitled This is a very strange record... most of the songs have very little in the way of distinct melody or song structure... there is no indication anywhere in the thing as to the name of the artist or the title of the album... the songs are listed on the back, and the liner notes say who played the instruments on each song, but no singers were given. The only reason I know it's Cynthia Dall is because Amazon.com told me so. All the songs are very angular and lo-fi and minimal in the instrumentation (or in the melodies) but I really like Cynthia's voice, it's small and kind of threatening in some places... there are strange spooky metal sounds throughout most of the back of the mix... and some twangy noisy electric guitar and bare-minimum not-even-Sarah-McLachlan-could-get-away-with-something-this-basic piano lines and above it all there's Cynthia's pinched pretty voice. I'm definitely intrigued thus far... though it seems that in an album of 8 tracks (barely half an hour long), you can't really afford to have 2 or 3 songs that are just sorta abstract formless soundscapes rather than proper songs... but then, I've only listened to this twice, so perhaps the structures of these pieces will melt into view after repeated listens. Melissa Dougherty This also is a self-titled album... I got it at CDbaby.com (go there now if you've never been) and it's so lovely... Melissa's an extremely good guitarist, she writes kind of jazz-folk... her voice is very unique, bittersweet at times and swooping at others... her lyrics are social metaphors and she ends the album with a gorgeous and even uplifting and sublime ballad about a woman who puts on her makeup and walks out of her house (past "posters of boys she's never know but archetypes the ladies would all love to be with" <---a great example of her strange and unique lyrical phrasing) and drives her convertible off a cliff. And it makes you feel GOOD... weird. Anyhow... I detect shades of Pamela Means and Lauren Hoffman's 2nd album... go to CDbaby.com and listen to samples! Oh, and her last name is pronounced "dock-er-tea" according to her, not "dough-er-tea". FYI. But this I highly highly recommend. Helium - Pirate Prude Helium - The Dirt of Luck Helium - The Magic City Well... some of y'all may recall my freak-out over Mary Timony's solo album _Mountains_... I liked it so much that I went back and bought up everything I could find from Helium, her old band. _Pirate Prude_ is an EP, 6 songs... Mary described it as "3 singles with 3 b-sides" and that I can definitely see, with titles like "Baby Vampires made me" and "XXX" followed by "Wanna be a vampire too, baby" and "OOO"... this is the start of Mary's violent merging of hardcore radical brilliant feminism and little-girl sweetness and minimalist-sounding (but not at ALL simple) guitar work... _The Dirt of Luck_ was their first full-length and I've been listening to this like MAD... everything Mary promised on _Pirate Prude_ was more than accomplished and easily easily bested by this record... each song is its own distinct world with its own unique and fascinating storyline... her musical motifs from song-to-song share a sensibility (obviously, since Mary wrote them all) but manage to be so divergent from one another while sounding tonally joined that they're absolutely distinguishable and recognizable as separate entities. The sounds do not blend together, each song stands up and demands attention and it's extraordinary. What's most fascinating about her lyrics is that she takes twee girly images like unicorns and "pretty baby candy" and parties and telephones (admittedly done a few years earlier by the kinderwhore riot thing like Babes in Toyland etc, but Mary's on a whole new level), and she transforms them into these images of intense horror. And her guitar playing rocks too. But anyhow, _The Magic City_ starts to go into prog-rock territory... very shimmery buzzy guitar lines, fantastical images about space and astronauts and aging... and even acoustic guitar in a couple songs! I think I shot a lot of my wad in describing _The Dirt of Luck_, but the same kinds of things still apply. Mary's one of those writers whose work you can look at in terms of "periods" and "eras" and "commas" (;D), one of those writers who's so powerful that she manages to talk about both herself and ourselves, which is what all art should be, ideally. Anyhow. Enough ranting. Buy _Moon pix_, buy _The Dirt of Luck_. Enjoy. John [feeling verbose, good Lord] ===== [an interesting compliment about our valiant narrator that y'all might perhaps find agreeable] "you're the aston-martin of robots" - - xovoxovoxo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:18:14 -0700 (PDT) From: kitty kat Subject: RE: ectowest On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, Phil Hudson wrote: > "...The miles aren't transferrable, but I can purchase a ticket for > someoneelse. No big deal... > > > > American Airlines miles are transferable. I got a ticket for a friend this > year, no problems. I don't know about any of the others. > I may not have been clear. With my Delta miles, I can't give someone miles, but I can use the miles to get tickets for someone else. Sounds the same as AA. I also think I'd be selfish enough to only outright buy Happy a ticket with my miles if Ectowest was in Seattle, because otherwise I'd have to purchase a plane ticket for wherever it was. But I think as things indicate, we're all willing to at least contribute a little bit so that Happy can get out west for us :) - -K ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:42:09 +1000 (EST) From: Sherlyn Koo Subject: SONiA of disappear fear in Australia (NIGC) Hey everyone, If you're in Sydney, Katoomba or Melbourne, you're cheating yourself if you don't come and see SONiA play over the next couple of weeks. It's gonna be great. Thu September 14 - The Harp, Tempe (Sydney) Tue September 19 - Clarendon Hotel, Katoomba Wed September 20 - Borders Macquarie Centre (Sydney), 1pm Thu September 21 - Borders South Yarra (Melbourne) - --I think there's a Melbourne gig in here but I'm not sure - check street press-- Sat September 23 - The LustreBarr, South Brisbane - --I think there's another Sydney show on Oct 3 or 4 but I can't find any info - check street press-- :) sherlyn =-= Sherlyn Koo - sherlyn@fl.net.au =-=-=-=-=-=-= [Sydney, Australia] "We will push on into that mystery And it'll push right back And there are worse things than that..." - Dar Williams ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:39:42 -0500 From: WretchAwry Subject: Interesting story about didjeridus As we head into the final stretch before the Opening Ceremonies of the 2000 Summer Olympics in Sydney, Australia, which most of us will probably watch because of Peter Gabriel and on the very off chance that Kate might actually really show up, here's an interesting story about didjeridus (which we'll certainly see during the show, though I'm especially looking forward to the clappers) from: http://www.tribalartaustralia.com/index6.htm The Legend of the Creation of the Didjeridu. A long time ago in Northern Australia in Arnhem Land, there roamed a tribe of Aboriginal people in the never-ending search for food and sustenance. Life was beautiful and happy for the tribe until a great tragedy befell them. One day two beautiful young sisters were out gathering berries when a violent storm came across the desert. The young girls climbed and escarpment and took shelter in a cave. Exhausted from their ordeal, they fell asleep. Later an evil giant who had an insatiable libido named "Bewk Bewk", returned to his cave and found the girls asleep. Thinking they had been left by their mother as a gift of wives for him, he ravaged both of them. The girls were very unhappy and after a long time they managed to escape while the evil giant was out hunting. The two sisters found their way back to the tribal hunting grounds. When the evil giant returned he was furious, as it was not easy to find such beautiful wives, so he set off on trail to find them and bring them back. When the old men of the tribe had discovered what had happened, they decided to set a trap for the giant when he came to track the young girls. They dug a pit and when the giant appeared, the elders of the tribe used the girls to help lure the giant towards the trap they had set for him. As soon as they captured him he became angry. Frustrated, he began to masturbate. After a long time his penis fell off. He picked up his penis and began to blow into it and out came an amazing sound. He used his testicles as clapping sticks. From that day on, the Didjeridu has been used in their singing and dancing. The didjeridu (this name being most likely of European origin) is traditionally from Arnhem land in Northern Australia. This instrument comes from the oldest continuous culture in the world, having roots which go back at least 40,000 years. It is made from a branch or trunk of one of a variety of species of the Eucalyptus tree. Termites nest in a naturally hollow space and enlarge the cavity. The branch or trunk is then cut and the bore is cleaned by scraping. The piece is then stripped and painted, often with bark paintings techniques or botanical representations. The smaller end (mouthpiece) is often coated with beeswax or vegetable gum for more comfort and a better seal. Thus is fashioned a very simple wooden horn which is typically from three and a half to five feet long. Larger instruments are sometimes used for special ceremonies. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:26:37 -0700 From: Neile Graham Subject: Many discs for sale Hi, all-- I've got a large (over 200) list of discs for sale--and priced to sell (also 1 cassette and some vinyl). We just need more space on our cd shelves and these are discs we don't listen to anymore. Most are ectophilic. You can email me for the list, or check it out at http://www.sff.net/people/neile/discsale.htp. Email to reserve the discs you want. Thanks! - --Neile n.p. Joni Mitchell, Blue (What a brilliant album! Not for sale!) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #266 **************************