From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #162 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Thursday, June 8 2000 Volume 06 : Number 162 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Napster compromise? [Joseph Zitt ] Re: whatever happened to ... [RocketsTail@aol.com] Re: whatever happened to ... [Bill Adler ] Re: whatever happened to ... [meredith ] Fwd: Merrie Amsterburg CD Release [Michael Curry ] dancer in the dark news [meredith ] Susan McKeown in NYC?? [Michael Curry ] Re: New Holly Cole Album ["Jeffrey Hanson" ] Re: Napster [Ted ] Re: Napster [Andrew Fries ] Re: Napster [neal copperman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 20:42:46 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Napster compromise? On Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 04:22:50PM -0700, Sue Trowbridge wrote: > I would be happy to volunteer, since it was my idea ;) If you are an > ectophile with music at MP3.com, or if you would like to recommend an > ectophilic artist who has a page at the site, please e-mail me off-list. > A descriptive line or two about *why* the artist is worth listening to > would, of course, be most welcome! A thought: if someone who has the proper access can grep the Ecto archives for the string "mp3.com", we might have a good starter list of people whose pages have been listed here. It should be fairly easy to process that to narrow it down to a list of artists; I'll do it, if whoever does the grep can send me the results. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 21:47:00 EDT From: RocketsTail@aol.com Subject: Re: whatever happened to ... In a message dated 6/7/00 8:39:13 PM Central Daylight Time, meth@smoe.org writes: << Whatever happened to Juice Newton, anyway? >> OOH OOH I know this one! LOL I saw it on "Where are they now?" hehe...she actually just released a new album about a year or two ago that had a redone version of "Queen of Hearts" on it (why do washed up singers do that??)...okay so she's still recording and raising a family or something. - -Eric "I'd stay home at night all the time I'd go anywhere, anywhere Ask me because I care" ~Stevie Nicks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 21:56:15 -0400 From: Bill Adler Subject: Re: whatever happened to ... Meredith, Juice Newton is still performing. She appeared last month in Cape Cod, Mass. She was recently spotted playing in the Atlanta, Georgia area too. In April she did a show at the Grand Ole Opry in Tennessee. Her most recent CD, American Girl, came out last year. (I didn't know this by heart, but I was curious after your post, and looked it up.) Here are some Juice Newton tidbits: She's had four Grammy nominations, and her singles, Queen of Hearts and Angel of the Morning, have sold over 1 million copies. Juice Newton is a descendent of Sir Isaac Newton. She's 48 years old. - --Bill n.p. The Iron Horse, Demons & Lovers At 09:16 PM 6/7/00 -0400, you wrote: >Hi! > >Okay, I think it's time to lighten the mood around here a little bit... > >Our cable company has a preview channel, where they try out channels they >don't provide, presumably to see how they are received (though there is no >way advertised to give feedback, and they never pick up any of the good >ones anyway). It's been my one and only chance to check out channels like >Bravo, MuchMusic USA, BBC America, and this week: VH1 Classic! I had no >idea that one even existed. > >I've been amusing myself by having it on in the background this evening. >They just showed the video for the very first 45 I ever bought: Juice >Newton's "Queen Of Hearts". (I was 10, gimme a break!) I remember >desperately wanting to see the video when I was a kid, but cable was only a >dream where I grew up, and that wasn't exactly the sort of thing that >showed up on Friday Night Videos, so I never did. God, what a silly waste >of celluloid. :) But I found to my horror that I still know all the words!!! > >(This is similar to the epiphany I had driving from Rockford to O'Hare last >Friday evening, when I discovered WXXY, "The 80's Channel" on the Chicago >airwaves. (Valerie, don't you just want to move back to Chitown now? ;) >They played Culture Club's "Miss Me Blind", and I could still sing along to >the whole damned thing. It's sad, really.) > >Anyhoo, all that got me wondering ... Whatever happened to Juice Newton, >anyway? > >If anyone here can answer that question, I will know once and for all that >it is true: You can find the answer to ANYTHING on ecto. :) > > > >+==========================================================================+ >| Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | >| New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | >+==========================================================================+ >| "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | >| *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | >| *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | >+==========================================================================+ Bill Adler Adler & Robin Books www.adlerbooks.com/celticmusic.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 22:03:12 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: whatever happened to ... Hi! Eric responded: > OOH OOH I know this one! Thanks. :) And thanks also to Sue Trowbridge, who apparently had the sense to see if www.juicenewton.com exists (which it does). She has a new album this year! Scary. They just showed the video for Peter Gabriel's "Games Without Frontiers". I had no clue he'd even made a video for that. It was quite odd. He went to great pains to lip-synch KaTe's part. Even odder. +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 22:28:15 -0400 From: Michael Curry Subject: Fwd: Merrie Amsterburg CD Release >Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:55:58 -0400 >From: Jessica Smyser >Subject: Merrie Amsterburg CD Release > >Merrie Amsterburg's new CD Little Steps was released today, June 6! > >You can buy it at your local record store or at >http://www.qdivision.com >http://www.rounder.com >http://www.amazon.com > > >Merrie will be playing thursday and friday at the Lizard Lounge in Cambridge,MA and tuesday at Fez in New York City to celebrate the release. Go to http://www.qdivision.com for details. > >** This is a one time only mailing. If you would like to be on the Merrie Amsterburg e-mail list and/or the Q Events, (all label related events) email list just reply indicating which one or both. Thanks! ** >__________________________________________________________ >If you would like to be added to the Q Events mailing list please e-mail me back and say "let me know!" Visit our web site at http://www.qdivision.com >where you can buy CDs! > Q Division Records 363 Highland Ave Somerville, MA 02144 617-625-9900 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 23:07:50 -0400 From: meredith Subject: dancer in the dark news Hi! Anyone interested in a detailed (i.e. spoiler-heavy), yet insightful and illuminating review of the Lars von Trier film _Dancer In The Dark_, which stars Bjork and Catherine Deneuve, check this out: . I personally cannot WAIT for this film to hit the York Square here in New Haven... +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 00:20:23 -0400 From: Michael Curry Subject: Susan McKeown in NYC?? Hi all, According to a listing in the Dirty Linen gig guide, Susan will be playing a show at the Bottom Line this Saturday. This information isn't duplicated anywhere else that I've looked, but I thought I'd mention it so those of you in the NYC area could check for yourselves. I also found these additional dates on the Greeen Linnet wed site... >Date City State Venue >06/25/2000 Glastonbury UK Acoustic Stage >07/28/2000 Brooklyn NY Celebrate Brooklyn, Prospect Park Bandshell >08/25/2000 15 W. 4th St. NY The Bottom Line Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 22:15:40 -0600 From: "Jeffrey Hanson" Subject: Re: New Holly Cole Album Meth wrote: >Would that be "Precious Heart" by Veda Hille? > >If so, I triply echo that "damn"! :/ That would be the song. But I'm surprised you don't know about it already--I was sure I'd learned that tidbit either here on ecto or trajectory (and Neal knew it too and he's not on trajectory so it must have been posted here at some point.) I had thought that someone who'd seen Veda had said that Veda had told them that Holly was considering recording it. It would be magnificent wouldn't it? Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 01:24:07 -0400 From: Ted Subject: Re: Napster jason and jill wrote: > On Wed, 7 Jun 2000, Ted wrote: > > Perhaps we need more jails, do you think that could be the answer? > > If napster users are thieves, then they should be put in jail. > > That's one solution. > So let's start building more jails. It's time for a police state, one where your writings will be free. > > > Critical awareness starts here: > > Napster users *are* the consumers of the present and of the future. > > How we evolve to serve them will determine our place on the food chain. > > Napster users are no more consumers than shoplifters are consumers. The > only difference is that one has to walk in the store to steal, while the > other clicks a mouse. Napster users *are* consumers. Names will never hurt them. > There's been a lot of bull that music wants to be free. Music is simply > a product of human effort and labor, and human effort and labor does not > want to be free. It would seem your opinion is being offered freely, is that to say that you have put no effort or labor into your viewpoint? > People want something in exchange for their efforts > and labors, and money is the most convenient way for someone to receive > the benefit of his or labors. Napster users say that musicians get in > exchange more publicity and exposure. So the hell what? So that the > musician can use that exposure and publicity to make more music for the > napster user to rip off? We will simply have to disagree here, we are working from 2 different models. I am not going to spend all week arguing with people the "my data is better than your data" game, we will simply talk past each other. > Or maybe use the exposure to get movie roles, > so the napster use can rip off the movie. The napster user takes from > the artist and offers nothing in return except the promise of future > stealing. This is a slippery slope fallacy. > A couple of quotes, first from Lincoln: > > "It is the eternal struggle between two principles -- right and wrong -- > throughout the world. It is the same spirit that says: You toil and work > and earn bread -- and I'll eat it... No matter in what shapes it > comes...it is the same tyrannical principle." Here's another quote: "Patriotism is the last resort of a scoundrel" (18th Century Philosopher Samuel Johnson) > > > Less incendiary in background, a quote from Harlan Ellision yesterday, > after he sued somoene who posted his stories and AOL, with the > Defendants saying "No mas." : > > "These people have been told that it's OK for them to steal. I'm > going to take them down because the old Wild West is finished. We're not > going to put up with this crap any more. My work is my work. It is my > property ... I'm a writer. All I have to support me in my declining old > age as I turn to rot is the work I have written. It can not be bandied > about and passed around on the Internet just because some pissant thinks > they have a right to do it. " This quote would be more relevant if he sued Gnutella or Freenet and not AOL. With Freenet the wild west is just beginning. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 15:23:47 +1000 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Re: Napster On Wed, 7 Jun 2000, Joseph Zitt wrote: >But what happens when an artist hops the popularity line, like Sarah >MacLachlan, Tori, or (to a smaller extent) Ani DiFranco? Does your >relationship to them change radically? Is it possible to retain the >feeling of personal connection when you have millions of fans? Yes, I guess that relationship does change and naturally it isn't possible to maintain the same level of intimacy with millions as it is with a couple of hundred - I don't expect that at all. Although I could say in keeping with my vision of music as a cottage industry, that once that "popularity line" is crossed, the artist is becoming too big. Which of course begs for a retort, "too big for what?" and I don't really have an answer to that at the moment.... My point however was that it is that intimacy that might protect those lesser-known artists from huge abuse on Napster, because those who feel connected to them will be less inclined to rip them off - that's just the way we work, tribal creatures that we are - and those who don't know them won't bother downloading whole albums of their stuff anyway, no more than I can be bothered downloading Metallica. and jason and jill wrote: >Which word between "is" and "prohibited" needs to be clarified? :) "Prohibited" is a word I tend to ignore, but I'm far more responsive to "please". - ------------------------------------------------------ "You know you're a Mac addict when you build your house without windows or gates." - ------ http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html ------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 23:48:04 -0600 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: Napster At 3:23 PM +1000 6/8/00, Andrew Fries wrote: >Yes, I guess that relationship does change and naturally it isn't >possible to maintain the same level of intimacy with millions as it is >with a couple of hundred - I don't expect that at all. Although I could >say in keeping with my vision of music as a cottage industry, that once >that "popularity line" is crossed, the artist is becoming too big. Which >of course begs for a retort, "too big for what?" and I don't really have >an answer to that at the moment.... That's an easy one. The answer is: Too big for you. (or me, since I tend to agree with you.) Obviously not too big for hundreds of thousands of others, but too big for those of us that crave the intimacy you discuss in our music. neal np: Burnt Twice - Michelle SHocked at the Birchmere ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #162 **************************