From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #160 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Wednesday, June 7 2000 Volume 06 : Number 160 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Napster [Dave Williamson ] Re: Napster [Dave Williamson ] Re: Toyah [Stephen Thomas ] aimee mann in nyc [meredith ] jonatha brooke at fez [meredith ] Re: Napster [Joseph Zitt ] Re: Napster [Joseph Zitt ] Reviewers needed! [Neile Graham ] Re: Napster [josh burnett ] Re: Napster [Ted ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 20:45:43 -0400 From: Dave Williamson Subject: Re: Napster The radio argument is complete crap. Artists get royalties from radio airplay - radio stations pay fees to artist associations that sample playlists and distribute royalities as fairly as possible according to the frequency that songs are broadcast. The fees to radio stations are hefty - that's part of what all of the commercials are paying for. WretchAwry wrote: > At 02:19 PM 6/5/2000 -0400, glenn wrote: > > >Did you ask the artists whose music you're distributing if doing so is > >OK with them? If not, why not? > > No, and I didn't ask them before I played them on my radio show, > or put their music on the Ecto sampler tapes either. If any artist > doesn't want their music heard, I'll be glad to take them off my > hard drive. If I'm left with only Happy's music to share, then fine. > She knows the value of sharing music, which has led to the > fan base she has, and indeed, to the existence of this very > mailing list. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 20:47:15 -0400 From: Dave Williamson Subject: Re: Napster What we're talking about here is far beyond home taping, and doesn't even deserve discussion in the same context. Save your testing for something relevant. Joseph Zitt wrote: > On Mon, Jun 05, 2000 at 08:17:24PM -0400, Dave Williamson wrote: > > > Proliferation and continuation of Napster-like technology will destroy everything but commercial > > radio pap. > > Two relevant quotes: > > 1. "Home taping is killing music." > > 2. "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." > > Discuss the interaction of these ideas in essay form. The result will > count toward 20% of your grade. > > :-) > > -- > |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| > | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | > | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | > | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 09:01:11 +0100 From: Stephen Thomas Subject: Re: Toyah Joseph Zitt wrote: > My favorite recording of her is "Sunday All Over the World", a collaboration > with her husband, guitarist Robert Fripp, and other eventual members of > King Crimson. She also has several solo recordings, has done quite a bit > of acting and is now, if memory serves, hosting a British TV show and > providing one of the voices for the Teletubbies (though that last may > just be rumor). I don't believe she's one of the actual voices for the Teletubbies, but she definitely does voiceover work on it, and is listed on the credits (having a 22 month old child, I know Teletubbies far more than I would like to...) Toyah actually goes back a long way - she came to prominance in the punk era (she was in Derek Jarman's Jubilee, along with Adam Ant). Keep well, Stephen Thomas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 22:27:47 -0400 From: meredith Subject: aimee mann in nyc Hi! Word on the street is that a second Aimee Mann show has been added at Town Hall in NYC next week, because the first one sold out. If any local 'philes are planning on going to that show on the 14th, please e-me off-list. woj and I would like to discuss tickets. :) +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 22:25:25 -0400 From: meredith Subject: jonatha brooke at fez Hi! Had a chance to see Jonatha Brooke do a solo show at Fez in NYC last night. The good folks at Fez pulled another one of their wonderful stunts, so nothing was as it was supposed to be: tickets were supposed to be $15, they turned out to be $25 when you got to the door; show was supposed to start at 9 with an opener, it actually started at 8, no opener. As a result I missed the first three songs (gotta love Metro-North Railroad and the MTA :P), but the what I did get to see was well worth the trouble in getting there. The last time I saw Ms. Brooke, she was singing with someone named Jennifer Kimball at the Iron Horse. Guess it's been a while. :} She impressed me as a very engaging performer, a much better guitarist than I remembered with a voice even more notable in person than it is on her albums. Her in-between song banter was self-deprecatingly funny and sharp, and she fearlessly interacted with the audience. She played several new songs from the album she is in the process of recording for a release in early 2001. I think it's going to be another good one, like _10 cent Wings_. She also did a couple songs from the old days of The Story ("So Much Mine" and "Angel In The House"). When she broke a string halfway through the encore she finished the song stunningly a cappella, and when the overflowing room called her back for a second round she decided to sing "In The Gloaming" a cappella as well, "because that was so much fun." Note to self: see Jonatha Brooke a lot more often. (Hopefully not at Fez, though -- she's more than outgrown the venue, and it's an annoying place anyway.) +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 22:42:14 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Napster Stated dogmatically, as expected. Nothing will happen to improve things until each side can understand the other's metaphors. And as expected, the humour in the post was ignored. Pity. On Tue, Jun 06, 2000 at 08:47:15PM -0400, Dave Williamson wrote: > What we're talking about here is far beyond home taping, and doesn't even deserve discussion in the > same context. Save your testing for something relevant. > > Joseph Zitt wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 05, 2000 at 08:17:24PM -0400, Dave Williamson wrote: > > > > > Proliferation and continuation of Napster-like technology will destroy everything but commercial > > > radio pap. > > > > Two relevant quotes: > > > > 1. "Home taping is killing music." > > > > 2. "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." > > > > Discuss the interaction of these ideas in essay form. The result will > > count toward 20% of your grade. > > > > :-) > > > > -- > > |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| > > | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | > > | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | > > | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:27:47 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Napster To answer a bit less snippily, what we're seeing here is, at the least, a public relations disaster for the music industry, who are depicting their own customers as the enemy. To lay it out more clearly: whether or not it is at all the same thing, the industry is approaching Napster/Gnutella exactly as it approached home taping. The problem: that approach didn't work then. People remember that. When they use it again, they are easily seen as crying Wolf. This is not effective. I find it interesting that in the past few days there's been a bunch of sudden publicity about DVD-Audio. Could they be positioning surround-sound as the MP3 killer, much as the improved sound of CDs had a similar impact on cassettes? > On Tue, Jun 06, 2000 at 08:47:15PM -0400, Dave Williamson wrote: > > What we're talking about here is far beyond home taping, and doesn't even deserve discussion in the > > same context. Save your testing for something relevant. > > > > Joseph Zitt wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Jun 05, 2000 at 08:17:24PM -0400, Dave Williamson wrote: > > > > > > > Proliferation and continuation of Napster-like technology will destroy everything but commercial > > > > radio pap. > > > > > > Two relevant quotes: > > > > > > 1. "Home taping is killing music." > > > > > > 2. "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." > > > > > > Discuss the interaction of these ideas in essay form. The result will > > > count toward 20% of your grade. > > > > > > :-) - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:44:10 -0700 From: Neile Graham Subject: Reviewers needed! The Ectophiles' Guide has a backlog of discs available for review right now, and could really use some reviewers willing to take some of these on. The rules of EctoGuide Review engagement are: 1. You either like(ish) the disc or commit to forwarding it to someone else. 2. Can do the review in a reasonable(ish) amount of time. 3. Keep the disc in return for the comments (or sell it, I won't tell). 4. I do the basic page, you do the qualitative stuff, so it's basically a fill in the blanks thing. 5. First one to claim a disc gets it. Here are rough descriptions of things we have available right now. Please let me know if anything sounds interesting to you, and I send you the full list of the artists and albums with links to sites for samples (when available). All female vocals except the two noted. - --straightforward folk - --male folk/rock with some ballads - --"alternative acoustic" sensitive guy pop - --folksy country swing/contemporary singersongwriter mix - --folksy folk music, with rich vibrato voiced female vox - --cabaret/light jazz music with accordion--a variety of styles of jazz from Latin to beatnick-y, light-hearted & fun tone throughout - --nicely instrumented rock with woman-centred, sometimes preachy sometimes relationship lyrics--husky alto kind of voice - --brassy-voiced but sometimes pretty-voiced singer with energetic pop/rock sound - --ethereal with a contemporary folk, almost country sensibility--mellow, pretty folk/pop Step right up! - --Neile - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 01:06:10 -0400 (EDT) From: josh burnett Subject: Re: Napster On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Joseph Zitt wrote: > Stated dogmatically, as expected. Nothing will happen to improve things > until each side can understand the other's metaphors. Okay, I have a metaphor: home taping is to Napster as the Pig War is to the Hundred Years War. In the Pig War, the United States and Great Britain officially declared war against each other for several years because an American killed a Brit's pig on San Juan Island. There was no fighting or killing or anything. In other words, they are of completely different scale and can't really be compared. With home taping, you can record some songs and give the tape to a friend, or a few friends, who can in turn make copies for a friend or a few friends. Every time you copy a copy, the quality declines, and it takes a while to make the copy. On the other hand, with Napster, you can get an mp3, put it on Napster, and a million people can download it by the next morning if they want to. With a fast connection it takes a short time, and the quality remains the same no matter how many times it's downloaded. Regardless of one's opinions about Napster, I don't think it's a particularly valid comparison. They are different beasts entirely. jcb. Josh Burnett * http://www.freespeech.org/jcb/index.html (home) http://www.freespeech.org/jcb/dontsay/index.html (journal) "We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 01:20:54 -0400 From: Ted Subject: Re: Napster Joseph Zitt wrote: > I find it interesting that in the past few days there's been a bunch > of sudden publicity about DVD-Audio. Could they be positioning > surround-sound as the MP3 killer, much as the improved sound of CDs > had a similar impact on cassettes? > I think they're sending up a balloon or 2, but in the end I think they'll be settling for a download able format to be implemented in the next 3 years. I think their woes are far from over, whatever format they choose. Somebody will be there with a free decryption program as soon as the new format is released. It's simply a case of music wanting to be free. ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #160 **************************