From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #40 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Friday, February 11 2000 Volume 06 : Number 040 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Napster - good or evil? [Dirk Kastens ] Chat on #Ectophile ["Lord Tyr" ] Re: Napster - good or evil? [Ted Jacobs ] Subject: Re: Napster - good or evil? [Tom Ditto ] Re: Napster - good or evil? [Dirk Kastens ] Sakamoto, Sylvian, Platos Hal0 ["Matthew B. Downer" ] Re: mark your calendars... [Jack Sutton ] Re: Sakamoto, Sylvian, Platos Hal0 [jburka@min.net] Re: Sakamoto, Sylvian, Platos Hal0 [Ted Jacobs ] Re: Napster - good or evil? [ken@3com-ne.com (Ken Descoteaux)] Re: Napster - good or evil? [dsr@lns598.lns.cornell.edu] Re: Sakamoto, Sylvian, Platos Hal0 ["Matthew B. Downer" ] Re: Sakamoto, Sylvian, Platos Hal0 ["Mickey Ferguson" ] Rufus Wainwright fans: Seville Esedote [John Drummond ] Re: Napster - good or evil? [Neile Graham ] information request on bobby gaylor? [basil@naxs.com (Brad Hutchinson)] Re: information request on bobby gaylor? [John Drummond Subject: Re: Napster - good or evil? Hi, At 13:53 09.02.94 -0500, Jay Behel wrote: >I certainly hope not. Some of my favorite artists (Bjork) spend lots of >time and energy dressing their natural talents in gorgeous and complex >studio trappings. I can't imagine having most music produced with bare >bones technology and having to go to gigs to actually support the >artists. I would prefer a parallel system where young acts can sell >themselves via Napster, MP3, etc. and established artists can continue >to benefit from record label budgets. And call me old fashioned but I still >prefer music (and books) that you can hold. I'm not sure if MP3 will win the game. Warner Music just starts promoting their acts using Liquid Audio. You can download tracks from their website that have a time stamp and can only be played for a certain time, the track can contain a water sign that can also be recreated from the analogue version, the LA tracks are copy protected, etc. Just have a look at http://www.liquidauido.com Dirk http://www.dkastens.de ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:43:00 -0800 From: Jack Sutton Subject: Re: mark your calendars... Hello I think you are going to like Leslie Feist, I wrote about her in my year end top picks recently in reference to her solo CD "Monarch" I've heard she really turns it up with her band Divine Right, which I have not yet experienced, but if her solo work is an indication, you will be pleased. I look forward to hearing reviews and comments from your living room concert. I feel like spending my "rare" (god, I hope they don't audit me) tax return on a trip out there. Jack Harmony Ridge Music www.hrmusic.com At 10:12 PM 2/7/00 -0500, you wrote: >Hi! > >I just have to share my excitement -- if all goes well it looks like woj >and I will be hosting a performance by Sarah Slean in our living room on >Sunday, March 26!!! Also playing will be Leslie Feist, who is in the >Nettwerk band By Divine Right. > >The time is still t.b.d., but it will definitely be sometime in the early >afternoon. > >Mark those calendars, and stay tuned for updates!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 01:29:58 -0800 From: "Lord Tyr" Subject: Chat on #Ectophile I have opened a chat on Dalnet, hopefully we can make this the = official chat room for the Ectophiles........... To join us use any IRC = program go to Dalnet which is irc.dal.net then join the room #Ectophile It's that easy and fun............. Hope too see you all in there for = great chat's!! =20 - ----------- Lord Tyr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:48:47 -0500 From: Ted Jacobs Subject: Re: Napster - good or evil? Do you honestly think that the majority of people out there will take a file with a time limit over a file without one? This tact of replacing MP3 with an inferior format has been tried before (with "MP4" for instance; I don't see any MP4 files out there right now). I am willing to bet that somebody out there already has developed a Liquid audio to MP3 decoder. I'm sure the watermark won't stand up for very long. Sorry, just being a realist here, unless your monitor is melting right now, in which case I'm being a surrealist. Dirk Kastens wrote: > > I'm not sure if MP3 will win the game. Warner Music just > starts promoting their acts using Liquid Audio. You can > download tracks from their website that have a time stamp > and can only be played for a certain time, the track > can contain a water sign that can also be recreated from > the analogue version, the LA tracks are copy protected, > etc. Just have a look at http://www.liquidauido.com > > Dirk > http://www.dkastens.de ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:30:01 -0500 From: Tom Ditto Subject: Subject: Re: Napster - good or evil? "Private property is the basis of law." David Hume When the Constituion was being written in the U.S., in merry olde England, Hume was spouting some of the principles that it embodies. You can go another way and argue alternative structures, but here and now we've got this legacy. The Internet is not regulated, and MP3's are free. Powerful forces supporting property rights are going to see a stop to it, because their property is leaking away in bits and bytes. Tom ditto@taconic.net "It's the neo-cortex, stupid." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:42:02 +0100 From: Dirk Kastens Subject: Re: Napster - good or evil? Hi, At 09:48 10.02.00 -0500, Ted Jacobs wrote: > >Do you honestly think that the majority of people out there will >take a file with a time limit over a file without one? >This tact of replacing MP3 with an inferior format >has been tried before (with "MP4" for instance; You may be right but the fact that big companies like Warner and BMG are already selling LA files ($1.99) may lead to the assumption that LA will be the future for selling music over the internet. Dirk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:49:47 -0500 (EST) From: ken@3com-ne.com (Ken Descoteaux) Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Napster - good or evil? Tom said: > > The Internet is not regulated, and MP3's are free. Powerful forces supporting > property rights are going to see a stop to it, because their property is leaking > away in bits and bytes. > But this is actually a point of contention... It's not property in the sense that land is property. It's property in the sense that a patent is property. It has duration and eventually is supposed to become public domain. There is/was a lawsuit "Eldred v. Reno" who's basic premise was that not much has been allowed to pass into the public domain this century because the gov't keeps *retroactively* extending the copyrights, which effect is basically copyright in perpetuity. Which is not the underlying premise of copyright. So those powerful forces are actually attempting to take property away from the public. I have yet to see a proposed copy protection scheme which expires and allows copying when the copyright is due to expire... and no one talks about it either. So to some extent, the copyright owners have won in that we are not talking at all about what copyright means and what happens when it expires. The arguments all assume that it doesn't expire. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:55:04 -0500 From: "Tom Ditto" Subject: Re: Napster - good or evil? Ken wrote: > But this is actually a point of contention... I'm a noid. You're a noid. We're a pair o' noids. Your contention reads just a little bit Waco to me. Like Janet Reno is going to order out the Feds with a fleet of blackhawk helicopters... First, as a matter of distinction, copyrights and patents have different terms. A copyright can be renewed, but a patent can't. Moreover, copyrights run much longer, the life of the creator plus fifty years. Secondly, the U.S. government has rarely sought copyright protection. Generally, their publications are either public domain or "classified." It's a Gothic world inside their realm and a poor point of comparison. Janet Reno and the Supremes aren't going to be fighting over the MP3's of their musical renditions. Patents in the name of the U.S. government, on the other hand, are held closely and must be licensed from Uncle Sam. Given that their expiration has a fixed date (20 years from the date of submission or 17 years from the date of issue depending on which comes last), the concept of renewal is only enforceable in so far as follow-up "improvement" patents issue. Such improvements in patents must be defensible before a court of law as novel, useful, and neither obvious nor laws of nature in and of themselves. It's a high bar to clear and by no means simply a matter of rubber stamping. When fights errupt over patents, you're going to see lengthy analysis of the meaning of the document, not simply the document itself. This is not the same thing as music copyrights. Hume's legal philosophy which the lowly Colonists so brilliantly incorporated into our primary legal document was that intellectual achievement requires the same kind of protection traditionally afforded to possessions of a more physical character. I say that was one of the most insightful contributions made at the Convention, and we are all the better for it. Now the question arises, how does this apply two hundred years later when transmission by wire can seem to steer around the guarantee? I suspect that the recourse is to meter the wire like electricity. If you download, then you pay. With the amount of royalty money at stake, it is only a matter of time before systems go into force. Is this wrong? Artists can always give their work away, and then there would be no cost; but artists, for the most part, beg for renumeration. As for Ken's observation about the duration of protection in an encoded disc, it seems to me that encryption keys can be released at the expiration date. Perhaps that hasn't been incorporated, so his point is well taken and should be acknowledged when the devilish details are being ironed out. More problematic is what an artist can do about pirates who decode and re-encode into the public domain. Here Janet Reno does need to unleash the dreaded forces of repression, because pirates, for all their romantic swashbuckling good looks, are a plague upon honest folk. As for the inevitable domination by capitalist pigs, it could be seen that the MP3 revolution is going to rock their boat and possibly sink it. As the "greed is good" crowd forms larger and larger megopolies, like the TimeWarnerAOL merger of recent days, one wonders how indies are going to survive. Well, hopefully, the free distribution network afforded by the Internet will do an end run around their stacks of platters in the Towers and Borders. Let me point out another feature of copyright law... Fair Use. Critics can copy and distribute segments of longer pieces to illustrate their arguments pro and con. Here is an opportunity for the Ectophiles to set up web sites with copyrighted materials reproduced in excerpt that would point listeners to indies whose work can be downloaded at a fee in its entirety. We don't need pirated works, but we do need freely accessible examples of longer works accompanied by good critical appraisal. That's the reason I read ecto, and I think the next step would be for an ecto page with a basket of excerpts as cross-reference to the many excellent reviews found on these pages. Tom ditto@taconic.net "So many voices So few choices." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:08:03 -0600 (EST) From: "Matthew B. Downer" Subject: Sakamoto, Sylvian, Platos Hal0 jeff (jburka@min.net) wrote: > On Tue, 8 Feb 2000, Matthew B. Downer wrote: > > > hachiman@io.com NP: Platos Hal0, "Bent" > > I've been listening to their mp3s quite a bit and will be ordering the dam > soon enough. Thanks to whomever it was that recommended the band. Anyone > in to pretentious, overblown super-dramatic late 90's interpretations of > the pretentious, overblown super-dramatic early 70's prog rock movement > should check them out...they're fabulous! Ditto. Whoever recommended Platos Hal0 -- you're a genius! If Ann Wilson of Heart fronted Dream Theater, it might sound like this. Shellyz Raven is also rocking my MP3 world right now. Anyone know of any programs that convert MP3 files into WAV files? Marion Kippers wrote: > You might like to know that the version of "Forbidden Colours" on > "Secrets of the Beehive" is different from the "Merry Christmas Mr. > Lawrence" movie-version -- it's sort of acoustified, matching more to > the mood of the rest of David Sylvian's album, rather than the > original more synthesized film version. Guess I need to pick up the "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence" soundtrack then:) matt Matt Downer NP: Shelleyz Raven, Desolation hachiman@io.com NR: Cryptonomicon, Neal Stephenson Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:14:49 -0800 From: Jack Sutton Subject: Re: mark your calendars... Hello I think you are going to like Leslie Feist, I wrote about her in my year end top picks recently in reference to her solo CD "Monarch" I've heard she really turns it up with her band Divine Right, which I have not yet experienced, but if her solo work is an indication, you will be pleased. I look forward to hearing reviews and comments from your living room concert. I feel like spending my "rare" (god, I hope they don't audit me) tax return on a trip out there. Jack Harmony Ridge Music www.hrmusic.com Hi! I just have to share my excitement -- if all goes well it looks like woj and I will be hosting a performance by Sarah Slean in our living room on Sunday, March 26!!! Also playing will be Leslie Feist, who is in the Nettwerk band By Divine Right. The time is still t.b.d., but it will definitely be sometime in the early afternoon. At 10:12 PM 2/7/00 -0500, you wrote: >Hi! > >I just have to share my excitement -- if all goes well it looks like woj >and I will be hosting a performance by Sarah Slean in our living room on >Sunday, March 26!!! Also playing will be Leslie Feist, who is in the >Nettwerk band By Divine Right. > >The time is still t.b.d., but it will definitely be sometime in the early >afternoon. > >Mark those calendars, and stay tuned for updates!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:53:49 -0500 (EST) From: jburka@min.net Subject: Re: Sakamoto, Sylvian, Platos Hal0 On Thu, 10 Feb 2000, Matthew B. Downer wrote: > Shellyz Raven is also rocking my MP3 world right now. Anyone know of any > programs that convert MP3 files into WAV files? Any mp3 player is streaming an mp3 into a wav as it plays -- the trick is capturing the wav stream to a file instead of piping it through to the sound subsystem. Winamp has the functionality built in. Just go to the configuration page and set up the output plug-in to be the WAV writer (I don't recall the exact details, but this should be enough to figure it out). You can specify a directory and export entire playlists with a click, which makes it exceedingly easy to generate CDs-worth of stuff to burn... jeff n.p. _Sky Motel_, Kristin Hersh ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:58:07 -0500 From: Ted Jacobs Subject: Re: Sakamoto, Sylvian, Platos Hal0 Winamp Ver2.09 has a plug in for that. I don't know about the newer ones. > Shellyz Raven is also rocking my MP3 world right now. Anyone know of any > programs that convert MP3 files into WAV files? > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:09:37 -0500 (EST) From: ken@3com-ne.com (Ken Descoteaux) Subject: Re: Napster - good or evil? Tom, You misunderstand me. Eldred v Reno is someone suing the government because the government has extended copyrights retroactively, thus depriving them of works entering the public domain (Eldred is a publisher of public domain works). Read http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/eldredvreno/index.html http://www.boston.com/globe/magazine/8-29/featurestory1.shtml Tom wrote: > > First, as a matter of distinction, copyrights and patents have different > terms. A copyright can be renewed, but a patent can't. Moreover, copyrights > run much longer, the life of the creator plus fifty years. I understand this, my point was they are both supposed to END. Things are supposed to enter the public domain, however Mickey Mouse was going to enter public domain in 2004, then the government passed a law that extended its copyright protection until at least 2019. The point is Why? It took something away from the public, by postponing Mickey's public domain debut. > Secondly, the U.S. government has rarely sought copyright protection. I wasn't talking about this at all. I was talking about the governments granting of copyright's to eg. Sony Music. > Hume's legal philosophy which the lowly Colonists so brilliantly > incorporated into our primary legal document was that intellectual > achievement requires the same kind of protection traditionally afforded to > possessions of a more physical character. I say that was one of the most > insightful contributions made at the Convention, and we are all the better > for it. Now the question arises, how does this apply two hundred years later > when transmission by wire can seem to steer around the guarantee? The deal is, in exchange for sharing our intellectual achievements with the public, the author gets a limited time exclusive right. Today media is focused only on its exclusive rights, and not on the fact that it is supposed to be for a limited time. > > As for Ken's observation about the duration of protection in an encoded > disc, it seems to me that encryption keys can be released at the expiration > date. Perhaps that hasn't been incorporated, so his point is well taken and > should be acknowledged when the devilish details are being ironed out. More > problematic is what an artist can do about pirates who decode and re-encode > into the public domain. Here Janet Reno does need to unleash the dreaded > forces of repression, because pirates, for all their romantic swashbuckling > good looks, are a plague upon honest folk. > ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2000 15:08:19 -0500 From: dsr@lns598.lns.cornell.edu Subject: Re: Napster - good or evil? "Tom Ditto" writes: > First, as a matter of distinction, copyrights and patents have > different terms. A copyright can be renewed Not anymore; since 1976, US copyrights have automatically had their maximum term, no renewal allowed or required (except by act of Congress, as we'll see below). > but a patent can't. Moreover, copyrights run much longer, the life > of the creator plus fifty years. That was the 1976 period. In 1998, the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act (no, I'm not making this up) raised it to life + 70 years, or a flat 95 years *retroactive* for all works still covered by copyright. And that is Ken's point--the copyright term of existing works has been steadily extended over the last century, from 28 years with a 14 year extension to the current 95 years or life + 70, such that essentially *no* works created since 1910 have entered the public domain, even though the nominal protection period then was 28 years plus a 28 year extension. There is considerable sentiment in Congress (backed by powerful lobbies like the MPAA) for making the term of copyright protection effectively infinite. For more on this, see http://eon.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/eldredvreno/ (and thanks Ken for the cool cite--I had been unaware of this case). > Hume's legal philosophy which the lowly Colonists so brilliantly > incorporated into our primary legal document was that intellectual > achievement requires the same kind of protection traditionally > afforded to possessions of a more physical character. But it doesn't receive the same kind of protection--copyrights and patents have a limited term, and the US Constitution clearly states the rationale for this fixed term: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoverie Creators were given exclusive rights so that they might benefit from their creations and hence be motivated to create and share (sell) those creations; those rights were to be of limited term so that eventually those creations would be available to everyone, benefiting society. That is a limited form of ownership with a very different character than the ownership of tangible property. > As for Ken's observation about the duration of protection in an > encoded disc, it seems to me that encryption keys can be released at > the expiration date. Current hardware devices like DVD players use fixed keys and make no allowance for annually updating keys. Nor do I believe the Digital Millenium Copyright act makes any allowance for reverse engineering of the "effective measures" protecting a work whose copyright has expired (if that should ever happen), if those effective measures also protect works whose protection has not expired. > Let me point out another feature of copyright law... Fair Use. Note that fair use is a defense against a claim of infringement, not a license to copy. What that means is that if a copyright owner asks you to remove an excerpt used for criticism, you cannot just cry "fair use" and be home free--fair use is only effective offered as a defense in a court of law. For a low budget operation like an Ectophile web site, when the lawyer for some misguided label asks for a sample to be removed, it would be best to remove it, unless the site has access to good quality pro bono representation. (errr--IANAL; I heard some of this explained by counsel in Cornell's policy office at a recent Computer Policy and Law seminar, but none of this should be construed to be legal advice.) - -dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:12:47 -0600 (EST) From: "Matthew B. Downer" Subject: Re: Sakamoto, Sylvian, Platos Hal0 Matt wrote: > > Anyone know of any programs that convert MP3 files into WAV files? On Thu, 10 Feb 2000, Ted Jacobs wrote: > Winamp Ver2.09 has a plug in for that. I don't know about the newer > ones. Couldn't find one on the winamp site, but it looks like one of the plug-ins that ships with Winamp 2.5 does. Just gotta figure out how to use it. matt Matt Downer NP: hachiman@io.com NR: Cryptonomicon, Neal Stephenson Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:40:35 -0600 From: "Mickey Ferguson" Subject: Re: Sakamoto, Sylvian, Platos Hal0 Matt wrote: > Couldn't find one on the winamp site, but it looks like one of the > plug-ins that ships with Winamp 2.5 does. Just gotta figure out how to > use it. WinAmp 2.5 *does* have the .wav out plug-in. Setting it up it rather easy ... you've probably sussed it already. In case not, here ya go: 1) Envoke the 'preferences' dialog (CTRL-P) 2) Select "Output" under the Plug-ins branch of the tree on the left. 3) In the list of output plug-ins in the right-hand window, select "Nullsoft Disk Writer plug-in" 4) Hit the "Configure" button below the list to point to the directory where you want the .wav files to be saved. 5) I usually have to close and restart WinAmp to finalize the switch. You won't hear sound when you do this. You'll have to change back to the waveOut plug-in when you want to hear the music, again. I hope this has helped. Best regards, - ---Mickey F Austin TX USA n.p. Old Blind Dogs, "Live" n.r. Land Development Desktop Users Guide (how excitin'!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:54:45 -0800 (PST) From: John Drummond Subject: Rufus Wainwright fans: Seville Esedote Y'all, Okay, so I was browsing around mp3.com last night and I discovered this boy Seville Esedote... and my God... he's so like Rufus W, but even BETTER because he's younger and cuter and a better singer. ;D http://www.mp3.com/yourhero The name of his "band" is Your Hero, but it's just him... so I refer to him as Seville for my own intents and purposes. I'm already in love, isn't that stupid? He's lovely. John ===== [self-indulgent all-eyes-on-JOHNNY] Quote of the day : "How irritating, now we're going to be back into this whole studly-poet thing that just eliminates the call for fucked-up gash sluts like us. *sob*" - - John "Who?" Drummond __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:12:48 EST From: RocketsTail@aol.com Subject: Re:Platos Hal0 In a message dated 2/10/00 11:10:59 AM Central Standard Time, hachiman@io.com writes: << Whoever recommended Platos Hal0 -- you're a genius! >> yea! I'm glad you liked them! I was BLOWN AWAY when I heard the music! -Eric "because I owe my life to the people that I love" ~Ani Difranco ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 18:34:59 -0500 From: Tom Ditto Subject: Re: Napster - good or evil? Thanks to dan and Ken for their letters -- both of which were thoughtfully mailed directly to me as well as to ecto which I receive in Digest form and hence with a bit of latency. I made my study of copyright law in 1976 and was only vaguely aware of the recent revision. I stand corrected on the term limit of copyright that I cited. However, this is a question of proportionality rather than one of principle. What consitutes a "limited" time period as allowed by the Constitution? Few of the popular MP3 bootlegs fall outside the "limited" period of the original 1790 act of Congress which allowed for 28 years of protection, and complaints about protection of works made within this window are surely moot. One can debate the fairness of the Sonny Bono statute itself, but this doesn't seem to be a constitutional issue so much as a legislative one. If there is a constiuency for a shorter term, the law can be changed yet even again. I did read the referenced http://www.boston.com/globe/magazine/8-29/featurestory1.shtml which is informative about the specific case. It would have been helpful for me to have had the reference in Ken's first letter, since I mistook the substance of the case. We're all agreed that Uncle Sam isn't collecting copyright royalties. Private artists and their heirs do. Their work is their estate and seems no less property to me than estates made of brick and mortar. Admittedly the specifics of each case of "fair use" is subject to scrutiny, but I see no argument against instituting snippets of longer works with the caveat that dan raises which is to be cautious and remove those short fragments that are disputed by copyright holders... unless the critic can find a pro bono Sonny Bono. Tom ditto@taconic.net "Some say the world Will end in fire" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:10:19 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: Napster - good or evil? At 3:08 PM -0500 2/10/00, dsr@lns598.lns.cornell.edu wrote: >"Tom Ditto" writes: >> Let me point out another feature of copyright law... Fair Use. >Note that fair use is a defense against a claim of infringement, not a >license to copy. What that means is that if a copyright owner asks >you to remove an excerpt used for criticism, you cannot just cry "fair >use" and be home free--fair use is only effective offered as a defense >in a court of law. For a low budget operation like an Ectophile web >site, when the lawyer for some misguided label asks for a sample to be >removed, it would be best to remove it, unless the site has access to >good quality pro bono representation. I think it is up the artists (or the record company) whether or not they want ot offer samples of their work for download. As a writer, I value copyright, and I value my right to do what I want with my work as long as I live (frankly I think copyright should only last for a short period after the death of the creator, not 75 years or more) and after that it should all be public domain. I would not be in support of an ecto site that offered downloads for the reasons Dan cited above--it could cause all sorts of ugly problems, especially for people without deep pockets or quality pro bono representation. The Ectophiles' Guide already points to artists' homepages, and probably 75% of those offer samples for download in one form or another. Some artist don't like the idea of other people having control of their work, and I certainly can understand that. Many writers don't offer samples of their work online because they're afraid of this sort of thing happening. I recently found a copy of one of the poems I have online at my site on someone else's poetry site. You can be damn I'm writing them and telling them they have no right to display my poem (or the dozens of others they have onsite). If they are smart enough to ask me, I will probably grant them permission but ask that they state they have my permission. It's _weird_ to see your words somewhere you didn't expect them. That isn't going to make me take my poems off my site or the other places online that have my permission to display then, though. - --Neile - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:27:13 -0500 From: basil@naxs.com (Brad Hutchinson) Subject: information request on bobby gaylor? I know this is really not an ecto thing. In fact, I'm not even sure what kind of music Bobby Gaylor does. A friend emailed me asking if I could help her get the lyrics for a song by Bobby Gaylor called "Suicide." I did a sherlock search and came up with a club date that he played but that is it. Anyone know anything about him? or where I might find information about him for her? Thanks! Hope all are well in ectoland. brad NP Peace Eurythmics NR _Map of the World_ - -- It is not every day that the world arranges itself into a poem. - --Wallace Stevens - -------------------------------------------------------------- Brad Hutchinson--basil@naxs.com--bhutchin@bristolvaschools.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:50:45 -0800 (PST) From: John Drummond Subject: Re: information request on bobby gaylor? > A friend emailed me asking if I could help her get > the lyrics for a song by Bobby Gaylor > called "Suicide." Anyone know anything about him? > or where I might find information about him for her? Bobby Gaylor is some kind of neo-beat poet from what I've gathered. He's on Atlantic, his website is http://www.atlantic-records.com/bobby_gaylor and I do believe there are lyrics there. Amusingly enough, my signature below is in reference to him... my friend Pepper sent me the link to his site saying, "There is no more market for us, huh?" meaning sensitive piano-playing girls and boys... and so that signature is what I said in response. ;D John ===== [self-indulgent all-eyes-on-JOHNNY] Quote of the day : "How irritating, now we're going to be back into this whole studly-poet thing that just eliminates the call for fucked-up gash sluts like us. *sob*" - - John "Who?" Drummond __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #40 *************************