From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V5 #364 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, November 2 1999 Volume 05 : Number 364 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: More newbie ramble! [Ted ] 2 Nights of Total Vegetility!(Shameless Plug for my friends) [Ted ] RE: Ectopia (was More newbie ramble!) ["Foghorn J Fornorn" ] FW: Shindell, Knots & Crosses news [Sherlyn Koo ] Re: FW: Shindell, Knots & Crosses news [meredith ] Ecto Pantheon (long) [joann.whetsell@oberlin.edu (JoAnn Whetsell)] Re: all of this pantheon nonsense [Andrew Fries ] Penelope Houston update! [Neile Graham ] Pantheology ["glenn mcdonald" ] Re: Hello... (new person alert!) [neal copperman ] Re: pantheon / Tara MacLean / Emm & Bowie / Joydrop [neal copperman ] Goddess criteria... ["Owen L. Magee" ] Re: Pantheology [neal copperman ] Re: Pantheology ["Owen L. Magee" ] My week in music [neal copperman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 11:20:50 -0500 From: Ted Subject: Re: More newbie ramble! Mieu d'Iscalio Sedai" was alleged to have uttered: > Anyway... um... there seems to be SO many different artists that the ecto people are fond of, and I > have no idea where to start! Please try not to look TOO shocked when I say I have never listened to > Kate Bush. *blushes* I am fairly young, and I'm also quite a newbie into this particular genre of > music, so I guess I have an excuse, sort of. I don't want to interrupt in the "goddess" thread, > but... > I'm just curious as to what artists all of you would recommend to an ecto newbie. ^_^ I've heard > Sarah and Tori... and Happy, of course, but that's about it. **** I would suggest you start with Kate Bush, particularly "The Dreaming" or "Hounds of Love", play them over and over again, until you become her slave. Now you are ready to move to the second inner circle of Ecto (Can somebody take it from here for me?).... - ted **** np: William Shatner With Fear Of Pop - "In Love". ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 11:44:57 -0500 From: Ted Subject: 2 Nights of Total Vegetility!(Shameless Plug for my friends) My friends The Cucumbers wrote to say: " Live Cucumbers will sing and prance before you at the Internet Cafe, Wednesday November 3, 1 W. Front St., in fabulous Red Bank, NJ, at 9 pm (732)842-4503... and on Friday November 5, at the Sidewalk Cafe, 94 Ave. A at 6th St., NYC, 9 pm (212)473-7373." Just a reminder that you can download them in MP3 at: http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/50/the_cucumbers.html -Spamboy ted ***** "Total Vegetility is a fertile garden of smart psych-pop." - The Village VOICE (Gehr, May 1999) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:12:00 EST From: Songbird22@aol.com Subject: new ani hey peeps, awhile ago someone posted a site with clips from the new ani album. anyone remember the address? thanks, jessica jessica n. weiser - http://www.aquezada.com/jess "and if i have to hear one more time about a fools right to his tools of rage - - i'm gonna take all my friends, and i'm going to move to canada and we're going to die of old age" - ani difranco ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:30:03 -0500 (EST) From: Jay Behel Subject: Re: More newbie ramble! Having sacrificed your immortal musical soul to Kate, I would recommend that you purchase and memorize: 1) Lion and the Cobra-Sinead O'Connor (when you have achieved an appropriate visceral response to 'Troy', i.e., moaning in spasms on the floor, then move on to, 2) anything by Loreena McKennitt, listen until you're dizzy from all of the spinning and twirling and pick up, 3) either 'Living in Clip'-Ani Difranco or Hips and Markers-Kristen Hersh, don't be alarmed you are supposed to feel used and abused yet liberated by the experience. You may repeat the cycle with Laura Nyro, Sheila Chandra and Toni Childs. Good luck! On Mon, 01 Nov 1999 11:20:50 -0500 Ted wrote: >Mieu d'Iscalio Sedai" was alleged to have uttered: >> Anyway... um... there seems to be SO many different artists that the >ecto people are fond of, and I >> have no idea where to start! Please try not to look TOO shocked when I >say I have never listened to >> Kate Bush. *blushes* I am fairly young, and I'm also quite a newbie >into this particular genre of >> music, so I guess I have an excuse, sort of. I don't want to interrupt >in the "goddess" thread, >> but... >> I'm just curious as to what artists all of you would recommend to an >ecto newbie. ^_^ I've heard >> Sarah and Tori... and Happy, of course, but that's about it. >**** > >I would suggest you start with Kate Bush, particularly "The Dreaming" or >"Hounds of Love", play >them over and over again, until you become her slave. Now you are ready >to move to the second >inner circle of Ecto (Can somebody take it from here for me?).... - ted > >**** >np: William Shatner With Fear Of Pop - "In Love". > Jay M. Behel, Ph.D. \"When I dare to be powerful-to use my strength in the service of my vision, then it begins to matter less and less whether I am afraid.\" Audre Lorde ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:43:32 -0500 From: "Foghorn J Fornorn" Subject: RE: Ectopia (was More newbie ramble!) Funny you should mention that, I have a to-do to write ecto today about that very subject. Nice seque... Yes, you can still order Ectopia from me. Orders have slowed down to less than one a month, and I'm caught up on all orders that I've received as of today's mail. I'm going on vacation starting tomorrow, so I won't be available to honor any orders until around November 20th. So if you want to order, or just mailed me an order, you'll have to be patient for the fill. I will have a laptop and will occasionally check mail, but no promises on the replies. It is a vacation, after all. BTW, any Sarasota/Tampa FL area ectophiles know any fascinating goings on there next week, do write! Much later, Fog ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:09:40 -0800 (PST) From: Steve VanDevender Subject: Re: Ecto Goddesses I've been finding this discussion of who to add to the Ecto pantheon interesting, at least as a study in whate we might call comparative religion. I think what it really comes down to is not so much whether a nominated artist has influenced other artists, but whether she or he has influenced _us_, which is exactly why Happy belongs in the pantheon. We really do have a lot of shared favorites, as well as some strong personal favorites that aren't shared as much. My personal pantheon, in no particular order: Happy Rhodes Kate Bush Jane Siberry Laurie Anderson Kristin Hersh Tori Amos I do find the discussion of Kristin Hersh (and Throwing Muses) interesting -- she doesn't seem to have quite as broad an appeal as some of the other clear favorites in the pantheon, but it seems that most of the people who like her really like her a lot (including me). Yesterday afternoon I went to work out at our spiffy new university rec center, and ended up working out listening about the first half of _Fumbling Towards Ecstasy_ until someone apparently decided this was not their kind of workout music and it changed to "Dance Mixes of Songs I Never Really Cared For." It was a rare display of taste in their music selection, while it lasted. I'm trying to think of what music I like that might work better in that atmosphere -- Danielle Dax, maybe? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 11:11:18 +1100 From: Sherlyn Koo Subject: FW: Shindell, Knots & Crosses news Hey folks, Here are a couple of interesting bits from the Signature Sounds newsletter, which I got from the folk_music list... - -sherlyn - ---begin forwarded message--- >From: Signature Sounds >Subject: Signature Sounds News November 1999 > >Richard Shindell And Signature Form Innovative Pact, New >Album Due In February 2000 > >Richard Shindell, one of America's foremost contemporary >singer/songwriters, will be releasing his next album, the >intriguingly titled "SOMEWHERE NEAR PATERSON," on Signature >Sounds in February 2000. This will be the fourth album from >the award-winning artist, whose previous album, 1997's >REUNION HILL won the 1998 Contemporary Folk Album of the >Year from AFIM (American Federation of Independent Music). >Shindell is also one-third of Cry Cry Cry, his successful >collaborative effort with Dar Williams and Lucy Kaplansky. > > >SOMEWHERE NEAR PATERSON will be released as part of a highly >innovative record deal between Signature, Shindell and >Young/Hunter Management, one of the first to reflect the new >realities of the record business, and one in which the >artist is held in equal partnership with the label. In >essence, Shindell pays for recording the album and retains >ownership of the masters, while Signature pays an equivalent >amount for marketing and promotion. The net income will then >be split evenly between Signature and Shindell. > >SOMEWHERE NEAR PATERSON reunites Shindell with producer >Larry Campbell (guitarist for Bob Dylan, k.d. lang and >countless New York sessions) and features guest turns by >Williams and Kaplansky, presenting an astonishingly >accomplished collection of songs in a gorgeous,full-throated >production. The record was mixed by Grammy-award winner Ben >Wisch (Marc Cohn, Kathy Mattea, Patty Larkin) and will be >released February 8. > [...] > >Knots & Crosses and Mark Erelli Team Up For New England >Shows > > >Speaking of long hiatuses, Knots and Crosses have not >performed live since 1993! That will change on November 11 >& 12 when they play album release parties at the Iron Horse >in Northampton, MA and the Somerville Theater in Boston. >It should be a wonderful evening of music as joining Knots >and Crosses for these shows will be special guest Mark >Erelli and his band. Knots and Crosses will also reunite >for shows in Portland ME and New Hampshire in early 2000. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 22:00:11 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: FW: Shindell, Knots & Crosses news Hi! Sherlyn forwarded: >>Richard Shindell, one of America's foremost contemporary >>singer/songwriters, will be releasing his next album, the >>intriguingly titled "SOMEWHERE NEAR PATERSON," on Signature >>Sounds in February 2000. Ah, so THAT's the name of the wonderful song about getting stuck in Friday afternoon westbound traffic on I-80 coming out of New York City, that completely managed to capture what it's like to live and own a car in Morris County, New Jersey. (As with all of Richard's songs it's about so much more than that, but it really resonated with me because of the superficial story.) >>SOMEWHERE NEAR PATERSON will be released as part of a highly >>innovative record deal between Signature, Shindell and >>Young/Hunter Management, one of the first to reflect the new >>realities of the record business, and one in which the >>artist is held in equal partnership with the label. In >>essence, Shindell pays for recording the album and retains >>ownership of the masters, while Signature pays an equivalent >>amount for marketing and promotion. The net income will then >>be split evenly between Signature and Shindell. This is interesting. I hope it works out for all the parties involved! >>Knots & Crosses and Mark Erelli Team Up For New England >>Shows Does this mean Carol Noonan is back with the band? If so, I might be needing to make a trip up to the Iron Horse next week. They were such a great band. (Interesting note: the second time I ever saw The Nields was to see them open for Knots & Crosses at Amherst College in 1993. Ah, the memories...) +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 22:55:17 -0500 (EST) From: joann.whetsell@oberlin.edu (JoAnn Whetsell) Subject: Ecto Pantheon (long) Hi all. In thinking about this discussion (debate? dilemma? controversy?) I wondered if there might be some compromise between letting a bunch of artists into the pantheon and thereby diluting it and the desire to pay homage to ground-breaking, visionary, and otherwise just excellent artists. Perhaps the pantheon could remain *relatively* the same as what it is now. (define relative yourselves) And maybe we could add a separate page to the ectoguide, a pantheon page if you will. At the top could be the goddesses and below sub-groups. We could even have dedications. Like The Goddesses: For their outstanding creativity, continued excellence, contributions to music, influence on other artists, and influence on ectophiles' lives (blah blah, whatever you will) I think Ecto Goddess, an honor substantially different from Musical Goddess has been best summed up/defined by the following people: Lisa wrote: I guess I'm with those who feel that Goddess should be reserved for someone whose longevity and body of work shows that their talent is enduring. I would also like to think that a Goddess has brought something different to the table; something that spurs an interest in an entirely different genre of music. Jeff Hanson wrote: For me, goddesses really have to be personally creative, enduring (i.e., their status doesn't change easily from album to album), and, to some degree or other, awe-inspiring. Bob Keefer wrote: I agree that people seem (to me) too ready to give the 'goddess' label to their current favorite artist, and that 'goddess' status should not change just because someone becomes popular or puts out an album or two that we don't care for. I would also think that the 'goddess' label should be reserved for someone that a large percentage of ecto has at least -heard-; meredith wrote: Someone asked how the artists currently in residence in the ecto pantheon were chosen. (it was me, meth) Basically ... it was an intuitive choice based on picking the "core ecto artists", i.e. the people who it seemed from the majority of postings on the list in its early days/years were the ones most universally appreciated the most by the ectophiles. ... Maybe if we were to introduce any sub-categories, so as not to risk diluting the importance of the "Goddess" honor, we should have an "ecto discoveries" category to highlight the "you heard it here first" artists John Drummond wrote: I don't think Goddess is a genre as such... just a heavy distinction... but remember, Ecto Goddesses must be folks met with across-the-board approval on Ecto... and that doesn't mean that everybody has to like them, of course, but that everybody can respect them as artists and people who have contributed greatly to music and the enrichment of our lives. and later wrote: the pantheon has to consist of the most popular-and/OR-influential artists from the ECTO PEOPLE... We can't go adding everybody who's been putting out albums since 1978 just because they have tits... I'm sorry, but no. "woman" does not equal Ecto, y'all. The way the list is now, the Goddess list I mean, each Goddess is on there for kind of a different reason, but the main thing is that they're all still putting out albums of new and groundbreaking material fairly regularly and still have tour schedules and things ... so to include the DECADES is just totally going to fuck everything up... Paul Blair wrote: If we can just put any talented musician into the "goddesses" list just because she's a good musician, then the term "ectophilic" ceases to have any real meaning at all. Sure, you could take ectophilic music to mean "music by women singer-songwriters" or "music that a large number of people on the ecto list happen to like," but neither of those communicates anything very interesting about the music. ... The ecto goddesses are not just extremely talented and inspiring musicians; they are paradigmatic for a certain category of music in ways many of the musicians that have been mentioned aren't. Other artists are ectophilic in various degrees and along various different axes in relation to those paradigmatic artists. Valerie wrote: The ecto pantheon should be reserved for only a few great artists. I'd hate to see 20, 30, 40 artists in it -- the pantheon is a way of saying that these artists are the very best out there, that they hold a place in our collections that few others can reach. To water down the list is to water down the idea of a pantheon. - -------------------- So people like Laura Nyro and Joni Mitchell for example, who are certainly Musical Goddesses, had long careers of original and excellent music, and a lot of influence on later artists, but who I don't think are ECTO goddesses, could be honored. Same for other people who are up&comer's, etc. Whether that should be done by decade or level or whatever... Just an idea. JoAnn np: Rebecca Timmons' first album, whatever it's called (i forget) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 15:22:49 +1100 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Re: all of this pantheon nonsense On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, John Drummond wrote: >I think something that he and most everybody else >involving themselves in this conversation is kind of >overlooking is the fact that we aren't the be-all and >end-all of all popular music... that's not what we're >about... and so, the pantheon has to consist of the >most popular-and/OR-influential artists from the ECTO >PEOPLE... I totally agree with John! Ecto Goddesses should fulfill certain criteria of ability, class and influence, but they should represent Ecto music above all. The trouble is, the very definition of what Ecto music is turns out to be practically impossible to pin down - it could however be determined by the practical process of voting. I'd propose throwing the entire pantheon out the window, only to be re-defined from scratch. Yes, the entire pantheon, including Kate Bush and Happy herself. Let's agree how many names we want (and let them not be too many, since that dilutes the essence of Pantheon) and let's see what in fact Ecto music is, here and now in late 1999... how about that? - ------------------------------------------------------ "Macintosh for Productivity, Linux for Development, Palm for Mobility, and Windows for Solitaire." - - spotted on a t-shirt @ macsurfshop.com - ------ http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html ------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:15:31 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: Penelope Houston update! For those interested. - --Neile n.p. Tori, live still orbiting >Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 11:43:22 -0700 >From: Phuzz >Reply-To: phous@earthlink.net >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: penelope >Subject: Penelope update! >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > >Hi Folks, > >I'm sure you're wondering what I'm up to, so here's the news: > >Friday, Nov. 26th, an acoustic set with Katharine & Michael on guitars >at the >TipTop Inn, 3001 Mission St. SF. 21 and over. My pal, Jean Caffeine from >Austin, opens. > >Sat. Dec 4th, it's the Glad I'm A Girl Benefit! My band, The Loners Of >America play >The Cubberly Center in Palo Alto. All Ages. More info to come... > >Also, a rumored one song appearance with Kindness this Fri Nov 5 @ the >Boomerang in SF. > >If you're looking for that perfect gift for family and friends, email me >for a catalog of PH/Avengers stuff (T-Shirts, CDs, vinyl, and rare >tapes) or for the Avengers nut in your life, check out this item >on ebay. >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=187560145 > >It's the last of my secret stash (well, only 2) of 1977 Avengers 7" >3-song singles, on Dangerhouse >Records. Extremely rare with the "target cover" in mint/mint condition. > >Or do your X-mas CD shopping through my link to CDNow: >http://www.cdnow.com/switch/from=sr-2070784/target=buyweb_products/ArtistID=FRN >-HOUSTON*PENELOPE > >When you buy through this link, you help pay for my autoharp strings and >songwriting pencils! > >Hope to see you at a show! >cheers, >Penelope >http://penelope.net/ >If you want to unsubscribe, just email me. > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 00:09:09 -0500 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: Pantheology I take a pretty minimalist view of what a Pantheon should consist of. The true deities of this musical form ought to be the ones who not only have devout adherents, but whose significance is acknowledged by even most of the people who don't personally love their music, and who demonstrate the core aesthetic characteristics of the music we mean when we say "Ecto". The only automatic entry in the Ecto pantheon, to me, is Kate, without whom it's hard to imagine this discussion ever taking place. She literally influenced half of the other people we know, and the style-span of her catalog could serve as a definition and explanation of the genre as well as anything else. The next three additions, it seems to me, trying hard to disentangle the issue from my personal tastes, would be Jane (for her music, especially the bits even more ethereal than Kate ever got, but also for her general inscrutable persona), Tori (for being the cause's new champion, and often the only person we talk about that much of anybody other than us has heard of) and Happy (as much for being the impetus for this list as for her actual music, which it would be silly to say is as influential as Kate, Jane or Tori's). And there, if we were starting from scratch, I'd stop. Others have contributed, certainly, or epitomized one individual aspect of Ecto or another, but it seems to me that the graphs of collective emotion and stylistic commonality both take a sharp downward turn after those four, at least currently. I personally remain a pretty staunch Sarah supporter, for example, but the backlash is well underway, so I think it's possible to make a case that she has dropped to the next lower level of divinity. And including Veda has always struck me as fundamentally wrong. I like her a lot, but she has played nowhere near as central a role in the development of this kind of music as the other four or five. Her music is exciting, but it isn't what I think *we*, collectively, think Ecto means, any more than Kristin Hersh's, or Laurie Anderson's, or PJ Harvey's. When the list was Tori/Kate/Sarah/Happy/Jane I felt it was literally a statement of the collective taste of the community. Adding Veda was Neile's editorial imperative, but that's what it felt like, to me: an editorial intervention. If I were editing the guide, I might have been inclined to inserted Cyndi Lauper and Emmylou Harris, both of whom come higher on my personal scale than Veda, but that would have been wrong, too. Emily Bezar is amazing, but she's got jazz and opera tendencies that are not at the center of Ecto. Patty Larkin is too folk, Loreena McKennitt a little too scholarly, Ani too confrontational. Alanis is too mainstream, Dalbello too much of her time, Susan Court too new, Aimee Mann not atmospheric enough. Bel Canto and the Cocteau Twins are too abstract. Joni Mitchell and Laura Nyro are ancestors, but they're no more Ecto than Black Sabbath is Speed Metal. Stina Nordenstam and Lisa Germano are too delicate, scary and minimal. Diamanda Galas is too ear-splitting. Jewel has some apologizing to do. Sarah Slean, Emm Gryner and Rachael Sage need to make more records. All of these, and the dozen others people have mentioned, are plausible inclusions in anybody's individual pantheon, but they would distort the meaning of the Ecto Pantheon. They do not explain the genre, they relate to it. They are the demigoddesses and heroines and antiheroines of its mythology, and any of them might eventually ascend, but first they have to demonstrate their ability to shape the universe in some permanent, unmistakable way. That's my perspective, for whatever it's worth. glenn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 23:48:09 -0500 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: Hello... (new person alert!) At 12:45 AM -0700 10/30/99, Bill Mazur wrote: >Mieu d'Iscalio Sedai wrote: > >> Just out of curiosity -- what's the general age group of this ML? ^_^ I >> am a college student, as you could probably surmise from my age. A >> computer science major, in fact. > >My guess would be that a good majority of the Ecto crowd is in their late >20s/early 30s. However, the age range seems to run from the mid teens to the >late 40s. I am 46 years old myself. At one time, someone actually made a histogram of ages, maybe based on the birthday list? It's certainly in the archives if anyone wants to look for it. Or perhaps said individual would like to do it again? Welcome Mieu, neal np: murder misery and then goodnight - kristin hersh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 23:50:55 -0500 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: pantheon / Tara MacLean / Emm & Bowie / Joydrop At 11:22 AM -0400 10/30/99, Steve I wrote: >I think it was Neal who asked about Tara MacLean's new CD. I just got it >and can only offer my first impressions, but so far I'm really not that >impressed. Same complaints as with her first album, too much production >and instrumentation. Really really prefer her stripped down live >arrangements. Definitely wasn't me. I had little interest in the previous Tara CD and EP, and even seeing her live left me unmoved. Can't say what little I've heard here is going to send me looking for it either. I did get a nice thank you from Sarah's people for all the info on playing in the Baltimore/Washington area. So if she actually comes here, some of you local 'philes better show up! I'll be crushed cause I won't be here :( neal np: Murder, Misery and Then Goodnight - kristin hersh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 00:12:50 -0500 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: Lori Carson in NYC At 1:40 PM -0500 10/31/99, Paul Blair wrote: >I went to see Lori Carson mainly because I'd heard she was playing with >Chris Cunningham and that her New York appearance would feature a full band >with a cello. This of course led me to think, "Michelle Kinney?" and then >to wonder just how much of The Chanting House might be participating. The >band turned out to be: > >Chris Cunningham - guitar (electric & effects) >Paul Pimsler - guitar (acoustic & electric) >Joe Bomadio (sp?) - drums >Layng Martine - bass >Jane Scarpantoni - cello >and a guest appearance on several numbers by Steven Bernstein on trumpet. That's a bigger band than we had in DC. Here, it was just Chris and Paul. I'd have loved to have seen the bass and cello added in. It was realy nice to see Chris play again, though he didn't get to stretch out as much as when I've seen him with Susan. In fact, he only really stood out on one song (Something's Got Me). >I wasn't familiar with any of Lori Carson's music, but it was a nice >introduction. A number of members of the audience did seen to know her >work; one kept calling out "Treasure," which she finally played as her >second-last number. From the posters at the club, that appears to be the single off of her new album "stars". >I was reminded a lot of Lisa Cerbone, but that may have been just a surface >impression. I would definitely compare the two. I think Lori and Lisa (besides sharing initials) have pretty similar sounding voices and occasionally have the same stylistic vibe going. It puts a smile on my face to see comparisons like this. Only in ecto land would someone be compared to Lisa Cerbone :) neal np: Murder, Misery and Then Goodnight - Kristin Hersh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 23:17:35 -0600 From: "Owen L. Magee" Subject: Goddess criteria... There have been quite a lot of criteria for goddess status bandied about, but I think the best criterion came from Mieu (inadvertantly): >Anyway... um... there seems to be SO many different artists that the >ecto people are fond of, and I have no idea where to start! ... >I'm just curious as to what artists all of you would recommend to an >ecto newbie. Isn't this what we really mean by the pantheon? The list of artists that we would instantly recommend to a newbie interested in ectophilic music? I think this criterion really encompasses a lot of what we're looking for: 1. The members have to be accepted by Ecto as a whole. 2. It discourages too many members in the pantheon (you don't want to rattle off 30 names to someone who just told you they like Tori Amos). 3. It lends itself to only accepting the artists who are most distinctly Ecto--populating it with names like Joni Mitchell, Madonna, etc. doesn't really tell people much about Ecto itself. That is, this helps fulfill the "obscure" criterion John Drummond put forth. 4. It allows the list to change to better reflect what Ecto is. If, for instance, Sarah M further descended into Celine Dionish mush, then she could be removed from the list, since we'd probably no longer recommend her as one of our first choices to a newbie. Better yet, imagine if Jewel had made the goddess list, but then she released _Spirit_. *shudder* 5. It lends itself to other levels of recommendations. That is, there could be a list of second-choice recommendations. "After you've heard the goddesses, you should really listen to these..." Anyway, this has been a really interesting discussion, and I'm looking forward to more... Owen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 00:27:01 -0500 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: Pantheology At 12:09 AM -0500 11/2/99, glenn mcdonald wrote: >That's my perspective, for whatever it's worth. Actually, that's my perspective too. I'm glad I didn't have to take the time to write it. (Maybe it'll free me up to actually do my last week in music justice.) Well said Glenn. neal np: Pygmalion - kym brown ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 23:42:05 -0600 From: "Owen L. Magee" Subject: Re: Pantheology Actually, I think Glenn's right here. Maybe the reason we've had such trouble agreeing on artists to add is because we don't need to add any more. And maybe why people have been hemming and hawing about Veda is because she shouldn't be there either. Interesning... Owen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 01:28:28 -0500 From: neal copperman Subject: My week in music In the last week I have somehow managed to see 5 concerts without feeling all that busy. Not sure how that happened, accept that more of them were close to home than usual. And, oddly enough, the Richard Thompson show I saw tonight cost more than the other 4 combined, and while I like RT, bang for the buck wise it was not a winning evening. So, the week in review.... Last Tuesday things got off to an excellent start with the Kristin Hersh show at the Ottobar (for a measly $10). It's always fun to see Kristin, though I thought this was on the low end of her concerts that I've seen. Her voice seemed really hoarse. I'm hoping that she was recovering from a cold and not a pack a day habit. It made her music sound grittier and more aggressive, but I like the pretty qualities of her voice that balance the edge. The venue was very very intimate, which made the sort of cold, distant nature of the show all the more surprising. It's not really fair to criticize an artist for not being personable every time you see them, but that's kind of what I'm doing here. She played well, but didn't seem really engaged. She spoke very little, and only gave us a few glimpses of that (justly) famous KH humour. Each song ended so sharply and perfuncortily that it made the whole show seem a bit too pat. And while I know she's been shaking up the set night after night, she carefully followed the nights set list, which added to the preconceived feeling of the evening. Not a bad show, but not as good as I've come to expect from her. The real treat though was the opener. I was not expecting to see Kristin Hersh and walk away saying I was more interested in the opening act, but that was definitely the case. The opener was a young woman named Mia Doi Todd. She hails from Los Angeles (I think), though I think she is half Japanese. She had a very exotic look, and was very soft spoken and self efacing. She accompanied herself on guitar, and started in a very soft, breathy way. But her voice was so intense, and it slowly gained strength and confidence, until it was gracefully swooping into directions totally unexpected. The most obvious point of reference for me was Hugo Largo, though her voice is huskier than Mimi's, more like a touch of Sloan Wainwright thrown in. The songs were lyrically quite complex, twisting on themselves and their language. She clearly loves words, and they seem to be painted into the air in the same way that some of my favorite authors write. Her vocal control was really stunning. There was a song where she held out the final syllable of telivision for an excruciatingly long time. The song structures seem to be really different too, flowing in their own way in defiance of the typical verse/chorus/verse approach. The whole thing was an amazing experience, and probably the musical highlight of the week. Did anybody see either of the Philly shows? I'd be curious if anyone up there was as struck as we were in Baltimore. I don't think the club agreed that she walked away with the show (less than half the people were there when it started), but Doug and I definitely felt that way. My friend Anna-Maria had never seen Kristin before (and only recently heard her music at all), and she liked them equally. But she did by Mia Doi Todd's album and not Kirstin's. The album fully captures the feeling of the show, which perhaps makes sense, since it includes this information about it's recording: "These songs were recorded by Holcombe Waller on November 14, 1997 between 2:00 am and 5:00 am in Dwight Chapel on Yale's Old Campus, New Haven, Connecticut. Holcombe and I slipped in after midnight and set up shop. A policeman poked his nose in at one point but sniffed no disturbances of the peace. He went about his business, and we ours. Thank you to the peace officer. Thank yo uto Holcombe Waller." The album is called "come out of your mine" and is on The Communion Label (2525 16th Street, third floor, San Francisco, CA 94103). I don't have any ordering info though. Wow, this is already long Guess I just got kind of carried away. Friday Ida desended on my neighborhood. This weeks Ida show had a very different feel from last weeks. I think this was due mostly to being in a tiny and very crowded art gallery that was 99% full of art students. Kind of a fun crowd to be in though. The show was less playful than last weeks. Then, they played a lot of children's songs for their nephew, which was a blast. It was all good, quiet fun though, and they did a bunch of other covers, including Blue Moon of Kentucky, which was fun because one vocalist spent most of the song making fun of the other vocalist. They seem like incredibly warm and nice people, and their gentle exquisite music is really growing on me. I won't bother to say much about the young neighborhood boy they let sing a few songs on the mic. It was very kind of them, and perhaps one day he will have a modicum of the talent that he seemed so confident about. It was pretty funny though. he was so brash. Saturday I drove down to DC to see Lori Carson. Not too much to add to Paul's report. I've seen Lori a few times, and find her shows to be somewhat erratic. Sometimes she hits her quiet intensity dead on, and other times it doesn't pack the full punch. The evening seemed to wander into both worlds. I liked a lot of the new songs, and was happy to see her perfrom a handful of old ones too. This was an early show, so I got to head back to Baltimore for a typical mixed bag at the 14 Caret Cabaret. After the performance artists, Radiant Pig took the stage. THere music is pretty hard to describe, combining thick country twang on the female vocals with operatically trained story telling on the male vocals, all blended with a weird eastern philosophical bent. (In a previous incarnation they did a whole multimedia show based on the Tibetan book of the Dead, which still plays prominently in their music.) Oddly enough, this was the first time I'd seen this incarnation without Asa (Lungfish' guitarist who has been playing with them for a while). I'd have thought that the addition of a solid postpunk guitarist would reall supercharge their music, but that had never been the case, so I was quite surprised to see how hard they rocked without him. They had a bunch of new songs and they were rowdier and funkier than anything they'd done in years. I'm not really sure who I'd recommend them too (or where else they ever play) but I always like them. They were actually opening for a rather pregnant Anne Watts, who was celebrating her new CD with her band Boister. These guys were a blast! I'd only ever seen them once before, when they performed the score to Steamboat Bill Jr. But they were much different as a band. The band consists of Anne Watts on vocals and accordian, with other players on trombone, bass clarinet, bass, guitar and drums. They play something that sounds very much like cabaret music, but more modern. Very clever, but not at all arch or distant. The arrangements are sharp, the atmosphere is thick, and the writing is clever. Particularly striking was Grieg's Cheeks, which lifts themes from both Grieg's "Hall of the Mountain King" and Irving Berlin's "Cheek to Cheek". I haven't had a chance to listen to the cd, or check out their web site yet (www.wingandaprayer.com), but maybe someone here will feel motivated (if they've read this far). And then tonight I saw the Richard Thompson Band. It's not directly ecto, and what else is there to say about RT after all these years. I had fun, and he was at the Senator Theater, which is always a treat to visit. I prefer him more stripped down and in clubs than with a full band, though the arrangements were often quite intriguing. Last time i saw him at the Senator was years ago, and Shawn Colvin opened for him. Kind of funny how those things go. Well, so much for accomplishing anything tonight. At least I'm feeling more caught up on my e-mail. neal np: come out of your mine - Mia Doi Todd ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V5 #364 **************************