From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V5 #362 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, November 1 1999 Volume 05 : Number 362 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Not ecto, but still :) [Yngve Hauge ] Re: Ecto Pantheon [ABershaw@aol.com] Re: Ecto Pantheon ["Jeffrey Hanson" ] Black Tape/Kevin Bartlett [Terra Incognita ] Re: Ecto Pantheon [JavaHo@aol.com] Fair Warning DC (part 2?) [neal copperman ] Re: Ecto Pantheon [Chris Morriss ] Re: DJ Rap and the new ectophile, etc. etc. [Bill Mazur ] Lori Carson in NYC [Paul Blair ] falcon ridge review [meredith ] main stage live CD [meredith ] Re: Ecto pantheon [meredith ] Re: Ecto Pantheon [phclark ] Re: main stage live CD [Ellen Rawson ] Re: Ecto pantheon [Ken Blake ] Re: Black Tape/Kevin Bartlett [Neile Graham ] Re: Ecto pantheon [Joseph Zitt ] Re: Ecto pantheon [Paul Blair ] Great New Artist! [NNadelS@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:14:09 +0100 (CET) From: Yngve Hauge Subject: Not ecto, but still :) Hi, I did get to see the Oslo Philharmonic Orchestra last Thursday. The last concert in Norway before their big tour to South America and USA. This orchestra is considered one of the best in the world if not the best, and they are conducted by Mariss Jansons as well, which is a huge pluss!! They are vistiting the following cities : Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro (next week), followed by Chicago (Nov 6 and 7), Boston, New York and Washington. Don't miss this opportunity!! *hugs* - -- Yngve n.p. No idea what to put into the CD-player - bought 14 CDs this weekend ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 08:26:58 EST From: ABershaw@aol.com Subject: Re: Ecto Pantheon Hi all, Enjoying this "pantheon" discussion & although I must admit I'm not totally familiar with the exact criteria to consider (someone post that please), I'll jump in anyway & nominate both Sandy Denny & Rickie Lee Jones. Happy Halloween, Alan NP- "Snowbug"- High Llamas NR- "Wrong Movements" A Robert Wyatt History ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 07:23:36 -0700 From: "Jeffrey Hanson" Subject: Re: Ecto Pantheon Another classic that I think deserves a mention in this pantheon discussion is Patti Smith. Jeff - -----Original Message----- From: ABershaw@aol.com To: Ecto@smoe.org Date: Sunday, October 31, 1999 6:29 AM Subject: Re: Ecto Pantheon >Hi all, > Enjoying this "pantheon" discussion & although I must admit >I'm not totally familiar with the exact criteria to consider >(someone post that please), I'll jump in anyway & nominate >both Sandy Denny & Rickie Lee Jones. > > Happy Halloween, Alan > >NP- "Snowbug"- High Llamas >NR- "Wrong Movements" A Robert Wyatt History ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:27:45 +0000 From: Terra Incognita Subject: Black Tape/Kevin Bartlett Hey Phile-o-ramas, Just a reminder that this coming Saturday is Kevin Bartlett's Star's End gig in Philly, wherein he will be opening for Black Tape for a Blue Girl. What could be more gotholicious??! That would be, like, NOT A DAMN THING. Check out the details at http://www.starsend.org/22gather.html Sharon-Virgo-Terra ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:46:01 EST From: JavaHo@aol.com Subject: Re: Ecto Pantheon Alan votes: << I'll jump in anyway & nominate both Sandy Denny & Rickie Lee Jones. >> I'll certainly second both of those, and the Joni Mitchell nod, and most definitely before Kristen Hersh. While I only have "Hips and Makers" I can only give it a qualified thumbs up. I don't dislike it, but with the exception of a couple of tunes, most songs seem to be written in the same key, with very similar melodies and harmonies and rhythms. That can, of course, be said of a lot of artists, but it seemed more pronounced on this release. I'm told that "Sky Motels" is much more varied and more representative of what people are raving about in her work. I'll certainly give it a shot, but at this point I'm not quite sure what all the Goddess talk is about. I guess I'm with those who feel that Goddess should be reserved for someone whose longevity and body of work shows that their talent is enduring. I would also like to think that a Goddess has brought something different to the table; something that spurs an interest in an entirely different genre of music. I remember hearing Suzanne Vega for the first time and thinking that it was such a departure from the slick poppy 80's music. Even giving appropriate nods to Joni, and to some extent Rickie Lee, I think Suzanne was accessible enough to really turn the tide back to acoustic female music at that time. I've always felt that she was partly responsible for bringing this kind of music to the masses and paving the way for many of the artists who dot the stages at Lilith Fair. I know that there were many artists before her and many since who have captured more attention, but she represented a turning point. At least IMHO...Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:28:57 -0500 From: neal copperman Subject: Fair Warning DC (part 2?) After Lori Carson's concert at Iota (more on the week in concerts later, maybe), I stopped by the delicious neighborhood ice cream store (chocolate strawberry ice cream - mmmmmm) and browsed the DC CIty Paper. I was stopped in my tracks by a 3/4 page jet black ad proclaiming: "On the occasion of the 10th anniversary of Cxechoslovakia's Velvet Revolution, the Embassies of the Czech Republic and teh Slovak Rebuplic present a gala concert with: IVA BITOVA in her only North American performance this year, together with SKAMPA QUARTET and MARIAN VARGA." Sunday, Nov 14, 6pm - Lisner Auditorium I find it somewhat amusing that I will be in the Czech Republic during her only US appearance . Anyway, this is a not to be missed concert. Iva is totally brilliant, and when I saw her a year and a half ago (5/16/98) the crowd in the small club sat in total amazed silence while she pulled an unexpected variety of sounds from her violin while simultaneously rhythmically singing along. Not to forget the performance art aspects of the show where she built whole songs around noises from toys. The reviews from myself and Joe Zitt should be in the archives somewhere. On the opposite page, we see a list that could have been drawn up by Ofer, all playing under the Voices on the Verge title at Iota on Nov 14 (Erin McKeown, Rose Polenzani, Jess Cline, Beth Amsel). I'm still gone, so it won't be my chance to see if a third concert would make me even moderately interestedin Ms. Polenzani. And, lastly, people who live in DC should pay attention to the Kennedy Centers Millennium Stage. (This stage, in the central hall of the KC, offers free concerts nightly at 6.) The only one of immediate ecto interest is JENNIFER KIMBALL on November 2, but the schedule is full of a wide variety of stuff that is bound to appeal to everyone on occasion. I'd see many of the shows if they were at all convenient. (http://kennedy-center.org/millennium) neal np: Ida at H. Lewis ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:53:47 +0000 From: Chris Morriss Subject: Re: Ecto Pantheon In message <0.25babf74.254d9da2@aol.com>, ABershaw@aol.com writes >Hi all, > Enjoying this "pantheon" discussion & although I must admit >I'm not totally familiar with the exact criteria to consider >(someone post that please), I'll jump in anyway & nominate >both Sandy Denny & Rickie Lee Jones. > > Happy Halloween, Alan > >NP- "Snowbug"- High Llamas >NR- "Wrong Movements" A Robert Wyatt History Just to de-lurk and add my two-pennyworth from this side of the Atlantic. No Goddess list is complete for me without June Tabor, and I could make a case for Heidi Berry to be somewhere on the foothills of the sacred mount as well. Bye for now, - -- Chris Morriss ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:27:48 -0800 From: Bill Mazur Subject: Re: DJ Rap and the new ectophile, etc. etc. Kay S Cleaves wrote: > As for the new ectophile, welcome Mieu! I'll second Bill's suggestion (I > think it was Bill) that you submit your site to the ecto webring. (I'm > updating it soon, I promise!) It was me Kay. :-) > Goddesses--Well, I may be alone here in stating that I've never really > gotten the hang of Kristin Hersh solo, but I do dig Throwing Muses now > and then. And some of the other TM splinter groups have been quite > pleasant. My own little pantheon would probably include Indigo Girls and > Dalbello, as well as seconding (thirding?) the nominations for Joni > Mitchell and Laura Nyro. If it is decided that we add to the goddess pantheon then I too must enter my vote for both Joni Mitchell and Alan's suggestion of Sandy Denny. Both Joni and Sandy meet all of the criteria that Jeff Hanson had mentioned. Bill M. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:40:46 -0500 From: Paul Blair Subject: Lori Carson in NYC Went to the Bottom Line Thursday night to see Lori Carson & co. Didn't see any other ectophiles there, or in line for the late show, so I guess I get to do the writeup. The opener was the hereabouts-much-belabored Samite (the one who did/didn't give Happy credit for her work on his latest album). He appeared with two other musicians, a drummer from Senegal whose name I don't remember, and a guitarist whose name was something like "Emma" though he is a he. Samite himself is from Uganda by way of Kenya, and played various flutes and African instruments whose names I don't know but which are held in both hands and played with the thumbs. The music was what you'd expect from a Wyndham Hill artist--very New Agey, basically African stuff. Pleasant, somewhat ambient, not very involving. I went to see Lori Carson mainly because I'd heard she was playing with Chris Cunningham and that her New York appearance would feature a full band with a cello. This of course led me to think, "Michelle Kinney?" and then to wonder just how much of The Chanting House might be participating. The band turned out to be: Chris Cunningham - guitar (electric & effects) Paul Pimsler - guitar (acoustic & electric) Joe Bomadio (sp?) - drums Layng Martine - bass Jane Scarpantoni - cello and a guest appearance on several numbers by Steven Bernstein on trumpet. Lori said that she'd just moved back to New York from Seattle, and while she was there she'd had trouble finding the right kind of musicians to play with. If she had to put together her ideal band, she said, this would be it. I wasn't familiar with any of Lori Carson's music, but it was a nice introduction. A number of members of the audience did seen to know her work; one kept calling out "Treasure," which she finally played as her second-last number. She ran behind schedule and had to cram the last quarter of her set into fifteen minutes (10 of which went over the time she was supposed to end) and going right into her encore "to save time." I was reminded a lot of Lisa Cerbone, but that may have been just a surface impression. From her looks, I would have expected a deeper voice, and nothing in the music grabbed me right away and said, "You have to get this!" -- but I'll definitely go see her again next time she plays here. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:51:34 -0500 From: meredith Subject: falcon ridge review Hi! Just thought I'd alert everyone that there's an excellent overview of this year's Falcon Ridge Folk Festival at the Folk-Tales site, at . Anyone who wants to relive the experience, or wants to get a sense of what this wonderful weekend was like, should definitely check it out. +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:04:24 -0500 From: meredith Subject: main stage live CD Hi! I just picked up the first CD of performances from the Falcon Ridge Folk Festival, _Main Stage Live_. Anyone who has ever attended the festival needs a copy of this to bring back the lovely memories ... and anyone who hasn't been able to attend the festival, but appreciates the best of what the contemporary singer/songwriter scene has to offer should check it out as well. IMHO it's worth it for Richard Shindell's take on "Paddy's Green Shamrock Shore" alone, but Dar Williams' "If I Wrote You", The Nields' funky "James", and Peter Mulvey's scorching guitar work on "If Love Is Not Enough" make it worth the bucks as well. Oh -- and it's even got the first iteration of Moxy Fruvous' "Attack Of the Killer Tents" from 1997, the fully fleshed-out version of which was performed at this year's festival (hopefully that one will appear on a future volume). Some have criticized Falcon Ridge for being to "safe", too homogenous, too stuck in the white-bread American singer/songwriter rut ... and while those criticisms are justified to some extent, the festival organizers do what they do so well, and make the weekend such a memorable experience every year, why mess with it? The CD presents a great slice of the music that has made Falcon Ridge a yearly tradition for thousands of people. It's on Signature Sounds, and is available directly from them at , as well as in the stores that usually carry such folky things. +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:26:30 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: Ecto pantheon Hi! Finally getting into this discussion ... I tried to stay out of it, really I did! ;) Valerie noted: >The ecto pantheon should be reserved for only a few great artists. I'd hate to see 20, 30, 40 artists in it -- the pantheon is a way of saying that these artists are the very best out there, that they hold a place in our collections that few others can reach. To water down the list is to water down the idea of a pantheon. I agree with this 100%. Someone (was it JoAnn?) asked how the artists currently in residence in the ecto pantheon were chosen. Basically, as far as I know (and Neile can surely correct me on this) it was an intuitive choice based on picking the "core ecto artists", i.e. the people who it seemed from the majority of postings on the list in its early days/years were the ones most universally appreciated the most by the ectophiles. KaTe Bush is an ecto Goddess because she is truly the one who started it all; she's a stated inspiration to most of the other Goddesses on the list. Happy Rhodes -- well, I don't think anyone here can question that. :) Tori Amos, Sarah McLachlan, and Jane Siberry each got an equally heavy amount of bandwidth devoted to them here early on, and I think few would disagree that these artists have important places in the hearts of a large percentage of us. And Veda Hille is on the list because Neile is the editor-in-chief and can do whatever the heck she wants. :) Personally, I agree with Veda's inclusion on the list, as a pre-emptive strike if nothing else. The optimist in me is sure that history will give Veda the place she deserves and more than justify her place on the list. If there is any justice in the Universe, she will prove to be just as important and influential as her fellow Goddesses (if not more so). That said, I think the only artists mentioned in the discussion thus far who merit inclusion in this exclusive listing are Joni Mitchell and Ani DiFranco. Joni, because the generalization can justifiably be made that those whom KaTe has not influenced, Joni has (realizing that there is, of course, plenty of overlap there too), and also because from what I've seen here over the years, there is certainly widespread appreciation for Joni's music across the ectophiles. Ani, because she has herself been an inspiration to and influence on so many of her fellow musicians, because she's slowly but surely changing the face of the music industry with her DIY attitude, and again because there seems to be quite a few die-hard Ani fans on this list. Kristin Hersh is a great artist, sure, and lots of ectophiles like her a whole lot, but I don't see her influencing a lot of people or carving an indelible niche for herself in the music world. Maybe time will prove otherwise, but for now that extra *something* isn't there for me to see her on the Goddess list. Same with Sandy Denny. She had one of the greatest voices in history, but would the world today have been much different without her? No one can answer that for sure, but my feeling is that today's music world wouldn't be as empty as it would if Kate Bush had never recorded a note. Susan McKeown and Ingrid Karklins are indeed too regional for justifiable inclusion on the list, though I'm not ashamed to have them near the top of my personal Pantheon! Maybe if we were to introduce any sub-categories, so as not to risk diluting the importance of the "Goddess" honor, we should have an "ecto discoveries" category to highlight the "you heard it here first" artists such as Susan and Ingrid, as well as Emily Bezar, Kym Brown, Sarah Slean, Rachael Sage, Susan Court, Mila Drumke, and Jewel. There are quite a few artists out there who owe this list a lot - why not toot our own horn a little bit and pat ourselves on the back for spreading the word? Just a thought to add to the fray. +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:34:06 -0700 From: phclark Subject: Re: Ecto Pantheon Chris Morriss wrote: > I could make a case for Heidi Berry to be somewhere on the foothills of the sacred mount as well. Hear, hear. Tho' I would (personally) contend that she has levitated past the foothills to the pinnacle. Regards, Peter Clark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:02:35 -0700 From: Ellen Rawson Subject: Re: main stage live CD I'm reviewing this CD for Rambles (http://www.rambles.net); I'll probably be sending it in later this week. I was impressed with the CD for the reasons Meredith mentioned and more. It features bands that aren't that well known -- gives them an opportunity to be heard by fans of Dar Williams, Richard Shindell, Greg Brown, etc. People who would buy the compilation because their favorite singer-songwriter is there now will hear these other performers. It's not simply a safe collection of well-known artists. For example, Wild Asparagus really isn't known out here in Colorado, but being included on this album may help them find a larger audience. Hearing June Rich perform on this CD, however, reminds me how much I miss them. :( Ellen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 16:30:58 -0800 From: Ken Blake Subject: Re: Ecto pantheon I also agree with this and I think there has been a serious lack of any people from past decades. But if you start including all the old timers then you do end up with 30-40. Valerie wrote: > The ecto pantheon should be reserved for only a few great artists. I'd > hate to see 20, 30, 40 artists in it -- the pantheon is a way of saying > that these artists are the very best out there, that they hold a place in > our collections that few others can reach. To water down the list is to > water down the idea of a pantheon. I just thought of a possible solution. The artists could be divided by decade, ie, the sixties goddesses, 70's, 80's, etc. Most people have been nominating artist's from this decade - hardly enough time to have been influential. Being classified in the 90's would imply that these are the up and comers who we think will be the most influential from this decade. So here's a stab at it. I need major help because I know I'm forgetting so many important artists. My apologies to all those I'm forgetting. Also this list is going to be skewed by my personal tastes and limited knowledge. A question mark means I'm on the fence. Sixties: Carol King Leslie Gore? Janis Joplin Grace Slick Tina Turner Seventies: Joni Mitchell Laura Nyro Patti Smith Deborah Harry Eighties: Laurie Anderson Kate Bush Jane Siberry Madonna? Chrisie Hynde Nineties: Happy Rhodes Tori Amos Veda Hille Emily Bezar ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 16:59:50 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: Black Tape/Kevin Bartlett At 12:27 PM +0000 10/31/99, Terra Incognita wrote: >Hey Phile-o-ramas, > >Just a reminder that this coming Saturday is Kevin Bartlett's Star's End >gig in Philly, wherein he will be opening for Black Tape for a Blue >Girl. What could be more gotholicious??! That would be, like, NOT A DAMN >THING. Check out the details at http://www.starsend.org/22gather.html Anyone who attends this, please ask him when his album will be available, ok? Thanks! - --Neile - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:29:08 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Ecto pantheon On Sun, Oct 31, 1999 at 03:26:30PM -0500, meredith wrote: > Maybe if we were to introduce any sub-categories, so as not to risk > diluting the importance of the "Goddess" honor, we should have an "ecto > discoveries" category to highlight the "you heard it here first" artists > such as Susan and Ingrid, as well as Emily Bezar, Kym Brown, Sarah Slean, > Rachael Sage, Susan Court, Mila Drumke, and Jewel. There are quite > a few artists out there who owe this list a lot - why not toot our own horn > a little bit and pat ourselves on the back for spreading the word? Just a > thought to add to the fray. Hmmm.... what (little) I've heard of Ani and Veda don't quite put them in the Goddess category for me, but surely would at least place them the next layer down. I like the "ecto discoveries" ideas. I also think we might have a layer of "goddesses' consorts" or some such -- no tracing of influence could omit David Bowie, Peter Gabriel, and perhaps Leonard Cohen and Yes. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:00:43 -0500 From: Paul Blair Subject: Re: Ecto pantheon I agree with the recent sentiment that the list of goddesses not be expanded too much. Here's my take on the issue: I personally can't abide either Tori or Veda's music, but I agree they belong on the "goddesses" list. I know one or two people on this list wouldn't even put Happy in their personal pantheons, but I doubt they'd argue that she doesn't belong in the ecto pantheon. On the other hand, there are artists such as Susan McKeown who are in my personal pantheon that I don't think belong in the ecto pantheon, and not just because they're "local." If we can just put any talented musician into the "goddesses" list just because she's a good musician, then the term "ectophilic" ceases to have any real meaning at all. Sure, you could take ectophilic music to mean "music by women singer-songwriters" or "music that a large number of people on the ecto list happen to like," but neither of those communicates anything very interesting about the music. When I tell people I'm crazy about Happy Rhodes' music, they want to know what kind of music it is. I can tell them that it's in the same universe as Kate Bush or Sarah MacLachlan or Tori Amos--that at least puts Happy on the map for them. The ecto goddesses are not just extremely talented and inspiring musicians; they are paradigmatic for a certain category of music in ways many of the musicians that have been mentioned aren't. Other artists are ectophilic in various degrees and along various different axes in relation to those paradigmatic artists. So I really don't think much of the idea of including people like Joni Mitchell or Sandy Denny or Carol King or Tina Turner. What I've heard of Kristin Hersh's music, which isn't much, hasn't given me that impression either. I love Susan McKeown's music, but most of what she's done since *Bones* is way out of the ecto ballpark, and even *Bones* lives in a different universe. From what people have said about them on the list, Laurie Anderson and Emily Bezar sound like much more likely candidates, though I'm not familiar with either one. Sarah Slean and Mila Drumke both strike me as in the right ballpark musically, but not accomplished or well-known enough yet to belong on the list (and I probably would have said the same for Veda Hille). Cocteau Twins, Cowboy Junkies and Bel Canto haven't been mentioned yet, and I wonder if they belong--they can't really be "goddesses" because they're groups. Otherwise they seem to me to lie close enough to the paradigmatic center of ecto, but that may be just my personal prejudices showing. - --Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:24:42 EST From: NNadelS@aol.com Subject: Great New Artist! Meredith LeVande is an amazing New York singer/songwriter that alot of would like. Her voice reminds me of Sarah Mclachlan and Mila Drumke. She writes beautiful, catchy songs, intimate and lovely. Check out: www.merdeithlevande.com and download some of her songs. You can also download her music at mp3.com. Her album can be ordered at the website as well. She is a wonderful live performer and appears frequently along the East Coast. I urge you to sample her songs, she floored me. I think alot of you would like her. - -nick ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V5 #362 **************************