From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V5 #360 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Sunday, October 31 1999 Volume 05 : Number 360 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Hello... (new person alert!) [Bill Mazur ] Re: Live Kevin Gilbert CD [Bill Mazur ] Re: The Ectophiles' Guide Pantheon [Bill Mazur ] ANI, pantheon nominations, and SPICE GIRLS [blah blah blah ] Lori Carson/DC [neal copperman ] Re: Lori Carson/DC [Bill Adler ] Re: Live Kevin Gilbert CD [Joseph Zitt ] B5 Psi Corp novels (was Re: Live Kevin Gilbert CD) [Michael Curry ] Re: Live Kevin Gilbert CD [Joseph Zitt ] Re: ANI, pantheon nominations, and SPICE GIRLS [Andrew Fries ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:45:09 -0700 From: Bill Mazur Subject: Re: Hello... (new person alert!) Welcome to Ecto Mieu! I have been here for about a year now. I too was first introduced to Happy via MWABT. Ecto is a wonderful list! I believe that you will enjoy it here. Lately, for the most part, I have been relegated to lurker status due to my extremely hectic work load over the past four or five months. Mieu d'Iscalio Sedai wrote: > Just out of curiosity -- what's the general age group of this ML? ^_^ I > am a college student, as you could probably surmise from my age. A > computer science major, in fact. My guess would be that a good majority of the Ecto crowd is in their late 20s/early 30s. However, the age range seems to run from the mid teens to the late 40s. I am 46 years old myself. BTW, you may find it interesting that Ecto was formed about 8 years ago primarily, but not exclusively, by Rutgers University Computer Science students. You may want to visit the Ecto archives to get a sense of the beginnings of Ecto. I found it to be fascinating reading myself. Ecto grew out of the KaTe mailing list. > Mieu Sedai of the Green Ajah > aka the Dark Siren Sally d'Iscalio > http://ecstasy.simplenet.com/mieu/ You have a nice web site. You may want to consider submitting you site for inclusion to the Ecto Web Ring. Here is the URL: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Gala/8060/Webring.html Bill M. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:45:31 -0700 From: Bill Mazur Subject: Re: Live Kevin Gilbert CD Joseph Zitt wrote: > I just spotted a pointer in the Discipline Global Mobile guestbook > to a live Kevin Gilbert CD and (due next week) a CD of a rock opera > of his, "The Shaming of the True". I'm doubletaken that I didn't hear > of them here first! > > http://www.kevingilbert.com/ Joseph, I didn't realize that Kevin had been mentioned before in these hallowed halls. He is one of my favorite artists. His music is at times delicate and fragile and at other times it is extremely powerful. His lyrics are always brilliant and many times achingly poignant. The Live Thud CD is excellent. It includes live versions of songs primarily from "Thud". It also contains a unique and powerful take on Led Zeppelin's "Kashmir". Another highlight is the intense, "dire, depressing and cynical" (Kevin's own words described it this way) "Miss Broadway". Here is a sample of some of the lyrics: I saw you on my TV taking credit for our work. And I knew if I said anything that I would be the jerk. There's always some ex-boyfriend. Some jealous has-been clown. Trying to muscle in the spotlight. Trying to keep the lady down. It's a comfortable old story about the man without a clue. Who rises to the top on work some women had to do. But political correctness won't accept the inverse truth. We just can't see painted toenails on the foot that fits that shoe. I wonder who Kevin might be referring to in that lyric? ;-) Also released by Kevin's estate is "Giraffe". It is a compilation of the extremely rare and outstanding Giraffe CDs "The Power of Suggestion" and "The View From Here". A portion of the proceeds for the CD go to the Kevin Gilbert Memorial Fund. For further information please go to this location: http://www.kevingilbert.com/foundation.html Bill M. n.p. - Ian McDonald _Drivers Eyes_ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 01:12:30 -0700 From: Bill Mazur Subject: Re: The Ectophiles' Guide Pantheon Neile, Thanks for opening up this discussion. I have found it to be one of the more interesting threads here on Ecto recently. Jeff Hanson wrote: For me, goddesses really have to be personally creative, enduring (i.e., their status doesn't change easily from album to album), and, to some degree or other, awe-inspiring. While I don't object to the inclusion of any of the ones listed so far, none of them yet fulfill that last category (at least for me personally) I tend to agree with Jeff's comments here. The current Ecto goddesses meet all of Jeff's criteria. I'm not certain that any of the other artists that have been suggested in this thread have the longevity or enduring quality that Jeff refers to above. Jay Behel wrote: > What if we have a complex, multi-leveled pantheon/mythos with > Titanesses (Joni Mitchell, Laura Nyro, MARIANNE FAITHFUL), > Goddesses (Tori, Happy, ect), Demi-goddesses (Emily Bezar, Ani) and > Heroines (Katel, Maura O'Connell, etc)? > > Just a thought. Personally, I really like Jay's suggestion. Even though it will create a good deal of subjective discussion on the list, this concept makes good sense to me. Bill M. n.p. - Giraffe _Giraffe_ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 03:27:53 -0700 From: blah blah blah Subject: ANI, pantheon nominations, and SPICE GIRLS actually. all this talk about ANI being nominated for goddess status has me wanting to put in a word or two for those who slammed UP^6 and LPC. i really didn't like either album and haven't liked an album by her since DILATE. BUT i was able to procure a promo copy of the new album TO THE TEETH and i think most older ANI fans will really really like it. not only is a return to her older style, it seems to infuse some of her playfulness and experimentation of the last two albums as well. i find a great synthesis of her later stuff and the older ANI that i love. i think that her last two albums were very much transitional albums, that seemed to culminate in this album. most of the album is quite good, with collaborative songs with THE ARTIST FORMERLY KNOWN AS PRINCE and MACEO PARKER. one song seems tout of place on the CD though, called FREAKSHOW. her vocals seem to really sound like ALANIS MORISSETTE. take that for what you will. i found it a bit disturbing, but it isn't a bad song per se. just a little too much nasal belting for me. but definitely i vote for KRISTIN HERSH to be inducted. others that i would bring up would be: ANI, PJ HARVEY, JENNY TOOMEY, SUZANNE VEGA, VICTORIA WILLIAMS, LISA GERMANO (are the rumors true that she retired?), BETH ORTON, LORI CARSON, FAYE WONG, BJORK, and LIZ FRASER to be considered. oh yeah, i have to second VALERIE's nomination for THE SPICE GIRLS into the pantheon. especially SPORTY SPICE, the one who can actually sing. does anyone have her album yet? i am most interested in the song that she did with WILLIAM ORBIT. i think it is faboo that WILLIAM is getting the attention that he deserves. apparently he is collaborating again with MADONNA on her new album. whoo hoo! cheers. back to cleaning my room, irvin np. TO THE TEETH by ANI DIFRANCO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:22:29 -0400 From: Steve I Subject: pantheon / Tara MacLean / Emm & Bowie / Joydrop Bob Keefer wrote: >I think my list would be shorter than most, granted. However, I also >wonder if we're ignoring some 'older goddess;' Joni Mitchell springs to >mind. I vigourously second this nomination. Joni's had such a long and distinguished career, had such a profound influence on popular music in this half of the century, cited as an influence so often, and is covered so often, by members of the current pantheon no less, that I think that it's a huge oversight not to include her in the list. As for the others, I wonder if some of the artists mentioned are really kind of regional in their popularity on this list, like Susan McKeown for example. I don't think I've ever even heard any of her songs myself. As for the others Neile mentioned, while I like them, I'd hesitate to say that any of them belong in any sort of ecto pantheon. Also, although I'm one of the many here who have been terribly disappointed with Sarah M's albums post FTE, I think she deserves to remain on the list for her prior accomplishments and for her helping transform the state of what we call ectophilic music in popular culture. It's really not often that a single artist can do that. Just my opinion. I think it was Neal who asked about Tara MacLean's new CD. I just got it and can only offer my first impressions, but so far I'm really not that impressed. Same complaints as with her first album, too much production and instrumentation. Really really prefer her stripped down live arrangements. Andrew typed: >track her down for ages. In fact, I just put a notice on my website >asking for any leads about her, but I certainly didn't expect to find the >answer on Ecto. For shame, Andrew. ;-) You should know by now that ecto as a collective knows all. :-) Anyway just to illustrate, this summer, Sarah Slean's manager told me about how Sarah had been invited to contribute a track to a benefit CD for Kosovar refugees, scheduled for release a couple of months hence, and that I should keep it hush-hush for now... and then the *very next day*, a complete tracklist for the CD appeared on ecto. I was surprised, but then hey, this *is* ecto after all. I know I keep talking about Sarah Slean and Emm Gryner in all my posts, and I apologize to you guys but they've become such a big part of my life than I can hardly not do it... so having said that, Emm just finished her mini-tour with David Bowie. -SO- amazing. I can hardly believe that this was the same artist who I stumbled upon playing in a tiny 40'ish seat folk venue around the corner. I saw a snapshot of the view from the stage during their show at NetAid at Wembley Stadium and was almost struck with stage fright just from the picture. What a sea of humanity. And to think it was telecast, broadcast by radio, and webcast worldwide in addition. Wow! What else? Oh, I finally saw Joydrop last night, which is pretty shameful for a Toronto ectophile, but for some reason, every time they play, there's been a conflict with another high-priority concert (last night being no exception). Anyway they didn't disappoint. They put a loud but extremely fun show. I was surprised though that after all this time since their first and only album, and all this touring, that they're still doing the album songs... they only did one non-album song all night. They must be getting so sick of it by now! Anyways their show entrancing, what with the light show and vocal effects and so on. Plus Tara Slone is quite an intoxicating presence on the stage. Wow. "Beautiful" was a highlight and a crowd favourite of course; Tara commented on how it is "eternal", being the only single out despite being out for 2-3 years. "Spiders" is apparently the next single, and that was fun too but I was terribly disappointed that they didn't do my favourite song, "If I Forget." Afterwards I went and bought the album (to replace the one I'd left on the back seat of a cab on Father's Day) and was surprised to find that the packaging is completely different now. I think this is the U.S. release. Anyways this post has gone on way longer than I'd intended! talk to you folks later... Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:50:48 -0400 From: Michael Curry Subject: Re: pantheon At 11:22 AM 10/30/99 -0400, Steve I wrote: >As for the others, I wonder if some of the artists mentioned are really >kind of regional in their popularity on this list, like Susan McKeown for >example. I don't think I've ever even heard any of her songs myself. As >for the others Neile mentioned, while I like them, I'd hesitate to say >that any of them belong in any sort of ecto pantheon. I can certainly see how, despite amazing talent, artists who still aren't widely known in all corners of the ectophile world as of yet might need to wait a while before being considered for the pantheon... even though those of us who do know their music might want to put them in right now. :) However, of the new possibilites Neile first mentioned, I can't see that applying to Kristin Hersh, who has been putting out great music, first with Throwing Muses and then solo, since the mid-1980s and, to mention one of the other criteria that some people have suggested, has inspired quite a lot of awe in quite a few people. Mike np: Kate Rusby -- Hourglass nr: All Tomorrow's Parties by William Gibson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:08:38 -0400 From: neal copperman Subject: Lori Carson/DC Late notice (well, not really, since I posted the schedule last week)... I'm going to be at Iota this (early) evening for Lori Carson's show. SHow is at 6. I'm not going to be at the Birchmere for Susan Werner & The Kennedys, though there were unconfirmed rumours that others would be. (JeffW, have you moved here yet?) Instead I'll be heading back to B-more for CD release by Anne Watts & Boister (the people who composed the score to Steamboat Bill Jr I mentioned last month) and the "shamanic hillbilly" tunes of Radiant Pig (the only band I know of who have written a waltz ode to collard greens). neal np: Ida at Iota (last weekends show) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:38:12 -0400 From: Bill Adler Subject: Re: Lori Carson/DC Neal, Sounds like a fun show. I wish I could go, but I have Halloween obligations. (Howling and scary noises don't quite count as ecto music...) - --Bill n.p. Emily Bezar, Moon in Grenadine At 12:08 PM 10/30/99 -0400, you wrote: >Late notice (well, not really, since I posted the schedule last week)... > >I'm going to be at Iota this (early) evening for Lori Carson's show. SHow >is at 6. > >I'm not going to be at the Birchmere for Susan Werner & The Kennedys, >though there were unconfirmed rumours that others would be. (JeffW, have >you moved here yet?) Instead I'll be heading back to B-more for CD release >by Anne Watts & Boister (the people who composed the score to Steamboat >Bill Jr I mentioned last month) and the "shamanic hillbilly" tunes of >Radiant Pig (the only band I know of who have written a waltz ode to >collard greens). > >neal > >np: Ida at Iota (last weekends show) Bill Adler www.adlerbooks.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:37:56 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Live Kevin Gilbert CD On Sat, Oct 30, 1999 at 12:45:31AM -0700, Bill Mazur wrote: > Also released by Kevin's estate is "Giraffe". It is a compilation of the > extremely rare and outstanding Giraffe CDs "The Power of Suggestion" and > "The View From Here". A portion of the proceeds for the CD go to the Kevin > Gilbert Memorial Fund. For further information please go to this location: > http://www.kevingilbert.com/foundation.html Ooh... I've heard about Giraffe, but never heard them... To fill in a remaining blank (I know you know this, but for others who might be haring of him for the first time), Kevin Gilbert was also (with Patrick Leonard) the creator of the excellent "Toy Matinee". > n.p. - Ian McDonald _Drivers Eyes_ How is that? Most of my knowledge of McDonald's work is about 25-30 years old. n.p. The sounds of a huge crowd emerging from a funeral at the Baptist church next door. n.r. J. Gregory Keyes: Final Reckoning: The Fate of Bester - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:30:57 -0400 From: Michael Curry Subject: B5 Psi Corp novels (was Re: Live Kevin Gilbert CD) At 12:37 PM 10/30/99 -0500, Joseph Zitt wrote: >n.r. J. Gregory Keyes: Final Reckoning: The Fate of Bester Is this the third book in the Psi Corp series? I've been waiting til all three were out so I could pick them all up at once. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:56:48 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: B5 Psi Corp novels (was Re: Live Kevin Gilbert CD) On Sat, Oct 30, 1999 at 01:30:57PM -0400, Michael Curry wrote: > At 12:37 PM 10/30/99 -0500, Joseph Zitt wrote: > > >n.r. J. Gregory Keyes: Final Reckoning: The Fate of Bester > > Is this the third book in the Psi Corp series? I've been > waiting til all three were out so I could pick them all up at > once. Yup! Grab and read immediately. The books are really good (though I read very little fiction, and don't know much of what else is out there for comparison). Bester comes out as somewhat sympathetic, since you're seeing much of it from his own POV. Keyes writes well, and JMS has given him a lot to work with. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:34:00 -0700 From: Bill Mazur Subject: Re: Live Kevin Gilbert CD Joseph Zitt wrote: > On Sat, Oct 30, 1999 at 12:45:31AM -0700, Bill Mazur wrote: > > Also released by Kevin's estate is "Giraffe". It is a compilation of the > > extremely rare and outstanding Giraffe CDs "The Power of Suggestion" and > > "The View From Here". A portion of the proceeds for the CD go to the Kevin > > Gilbert Memorial Fund. For further information please go to this location: > > http://www.kevingilbert.com/foundation.html > > Ooh... I've heard about Giraffe, but never heard them... Joseph, I think that you would like Giraffe. This is Kevin's work when he was in his very early twenties (in the late 80s). It has a similar sort of feel and sound to his Toy Matinee work. To me it is kind of a mix of Security / So period Peter Gabriel and the Toy Matinee CD. My favorite pieces are "This Warm Night", "The World Just Gets Smaller", "The Way Back Home", "Holding On With Both Hands" and "Airdance". There are MP3 samples of "The Way Back Home" and "This Warm Night (Live)" at this URL: http://www.kevingilbert.com/5ab/giraffegiraffe.html > To fill in a remaining blank (I know you know this, but for others who > might be haring of him for the first time), Kevin Gilbert was also (with > Patrick Leonard) the creator of the excellent "Toy Matinee". > > > n.p. - Ian McDonald _Drivers Eyes_ > > How is that? Most of my knowledge of McDonald's work is about 25-30 > years old. Ian McDonald is an incredible musician. His work on the first King Crimson recording is phenomenal. "In the Court of the Crimson King" is #5 on my Top 100 all time favorite CDs/albums. I also thoroughly enjoyed "McDonald & Giles" Ian's new CD is not what I expected, but it is still very good. Most of it is a bit more straight forward than I was hoping for or expected. I was hoping that it would have a little more of a classic progressive flavor to it. The two pieces that drift into that vein a little more than the others are "Forever and Ever" (written and performed with Jon Wetton) and "Let There Be Light" (written with Peter Sinfield. Gary Brooker of Procol Harum sings on this track). Other well known guest musicians on the CD include Steve Hackett, John Waite, G.E. Smith, Lou Gramm and Peter Frampton. Ian is on Steve Hackett's Camino Records label. Ian, along with Steve Hackett, John Wetton, Chester Thompson and Julian Colbeck came together for a one off concert in Tokyo several years ago. There is a CD and a video of the concert available through Camino Records. They play classic Genesis and King Crimson pieces along with Steve Hackett's solo material. Ian's performance is brilliant throughout, but especially on "In the Court of the Crimson King" and "I Talk to the Wind". I really love the way he plays the flute. Here are a few URLs you may want to check out: http://www.artist-shop.com/ http://www.camino.co.uk/ Bill M. n.p. Imogen Heap _ I Megaphone_ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:47:02 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Live Kevin Gilbert CD On Sat, Oct 30, 1999 at 01:34:00PM -0700, Bill Mazur wrote: > Ian McDonald is an incredible musician. His work on the first King Crimson > recording is phenomenal. "In the Court of the Crimson King" is #5 on my Top 100 > all time favorite CDs/albums. I also thoroughly enjoyed "McDonald & Giles" Mmm.. yes. I have several copies of ITCOTCK, and am eagerly awaiting getting the new remaster of it. I useta have "McDonald and Giles", but don't remember anything other than the cover. > Ian is on Steve Hackett's Camino Records label. Ian, along with Steve Hackett, > John Wetton, Chester Thompson and Julian Colbeck came together for a one off > concert in Tokyo several years ago. There is a CD and a video of the concert > available through Camino Records. They play classic Genesis and King Crimson > pieces along with Steve Hackett's solo material. Ian's performance is brilliant > throughout, but especially on "In the Court of the Crimson King" and "I Talk to > the Wind". I really love the way he plays the flute. Ooh! Ooh! As I dropped over to the Artists Shop and heard the sample of John Wetton singing "I Talk to the Wind", my credit card lept from my wallet. I'm drooling with antici(say it)pation. n.p. King Crimson: ProjeKcts (I've ripped the 4 CD set + Space Groove + various 90s instrumentals to MP3 and have them on shuffle. I eagerly await "The Roar of P4" from the KCCC..) - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:42:44 +1100 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Re: ANI, pantheon nominations, and SPICE GIRLS On Sat, 30 Oct 1999, blah blah blah wrote: >oh yeah, i have to second VALERIE's nomination for THE SPICE >GIRLS into the pantheon. Indeed. We've wasted enough time on all these lesser artists and unimportant topics, let's move on to something that truly matters: WHICH IS YOUR FAVOURITE SPICE GIRL? ;) - ------------------------------------------------------ "Macintosh for Productivity, Linux for Development, Palm for Mobility, and Windows for Solitaire." - - spotted on a t-shirt @ macsurfshop.com - ------ http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:37:51 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: ANI, pantheon nominations, and SPICE GIRLS On Sun, Oct 31, 1999 at 12:42:44PM +1100, Andrew Fries wrote: > WHICH IS YOUR FAVOURITE SPICE GIRL? "I want to live with a cinnamon girl..." n.p. The Bridge School Webcast (http://www.bridgeschool.org/) - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:16:41 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: ANI, pantheon nominations, and SPICE GIRLS Hi! Andrew exhorted: > WHICH IS YOUR FAVOURITE SPICE GIRL? Um ... the mute one? ;> +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V5 #360 **************************