From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V5 #330 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Saturday, October 2 1999 Volume 05 : Number 330 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Ectofest my post part two [FAMarcus@aol.com] news of The Innocence Mission [Michael Curry ] Uhh, perhaps it's not my place to say this, but... [Larry Troxler ] new albums ["Nick Nadel" ] Re: too much to give a proper name. long. possibly boring. [neal copperma] Re: Uhh, perhaps it's not my place to say this, but... [neal copperman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:37:19 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: Ectofest my post part two In a message dated 10/1/99 10:12:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mcurry@io.com writes: << Charley loved this list. At least, until he fought for the >"community" and got flamed to a crisp for his concern. >Well, why should he care if no one else does? Why should >anybody? >> you understand that no one made him leave the list. i assume he was an adult and it was his choice. nothing was said that would have bothered all but the most thin skinned. the list still serves the same function as it did before this inane issue of who can, would, should, or could use the name ecto. music and the discovery of new talent. isn't that what most of us are here for. this sense of community is very commendable. i personally have a family and friends off line that fulfill that need but maybe some of us take this list more seriously than i do. but for me its the music stupid. and that can be appreciated still if charley wants to come back. i dont know about that one two three character. his need seemed to be all ego related. fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 22:55:14 -0400 From: Michael Curry Subject: news of The Innocence Mission >Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:05:23 -0700 >From: innocencemission@kneelingelephant.com >Subject: The Innocence Mission > >Dear The Innocence Mission Fans, > >As I hope you all know, the album "Birds of My Neighborhood" is >available at all fine record stores in the US. The album is so >beautiful! > >And the best news is that Don, Karen and Mike are hitting the road for a >few more dates. > >This weekend, they are performing at Mountain Stage on Sunday 10/3. The >performance will be aired on non-commercial stations within the month. >For more details, check out the Mountain Stage web site, >http://www.wvpubrad.org/mtnstage.htm. > >Other upcoming shows: >October 18 & 19 at Tin Angel in Philadelphia, PA >October 21 at The Mercury Lounge in New York, NY > >While in NYC, The Innocence Mission will perform live on WFUV at 10:30am >on Oct. 21. > >The performance on Acoustic Cafe aired on Sept. 6, but you can hear the >interview and performance on their web site, >http://www.mlive.com/cafe/index.ssf?/cafe/stories/19990906innocence.frm > >And for those of you interested in receiving a copy of the sampler CD >featuring "The Lakes of Canada," "Snow," "Moon River" and "Prayer of St. >Francis", check out the Artist Spotlight on the UBL.com >http://ubl.com/fp.asp?layout=main_artspot_page >This week The Innocence Mission is featured with a chance to enter to >receive the free sampler. > >Help support "The Lakes of Canada" at Radio. In addition to the song >gaining momentum at AAA and NPR, College Radio is strongly supporting >the album. Please call your favorite station and request your favorite >song. > >That's all for now. Please check the Kneelingelephant.com web site for >future updates. > >Thanks for your support, >Kneeling Elephant Records ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 03:10:50 +0000 From: Larry Troxler Subject: Uhh, perhaps it's not my place to say this, but... .., especially since I'm just a recent subscriber to what I thought was a simple mailing list for Happy Rhodes fans and perhaps a springboard to discussing other music, not realizing I was joining some sort of weird cult, so maybe this is a case of look before you leap, but since I'm here and suddenly having having to scroll through a bunch of long winded philosophical speeches which I highly doubt anyone is reading anyway, and last but not least, because I enjoy writing run-on sentences, I just gotta say this one thing: CAN EVERYONE JUST PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY !!?!?! ranks :-) Larry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 01:10:05 -0400 From: neal copperman Subject: RE: Ectofest At 12:46 AM -0500 10/1/99, There is no spoon wrote: >This whole debate has cast a pall over Ecto (for me) >that I never would have imagined. It's pretty simple >to me. Ecto is either a "community" or it's a mailing >list that just happens to use a word called "Ecto" as >its title. You can't have it both ways, not that I see. I'm not sure why not. Ecto is not the same list it was 7 years ago, when it was the primary outlet in our lives for many of us. People, and the list, change in various ways every year. But even when it seemed to be as much about people as music (which could possibly be argued back then), it still was both of those things. For the people who invested their energy, their souls and their times, for the lives that it (literally) saved, it was (and probably remains) a community. For the lurkers who just want concert dates and new music tips, for those that delete our various musings and tangents, and almost definitely for those that post that said tangents should please stop as they aren't why they are here, it is a mailing list. See, two different things to two different groups. And it's not a new development. Ecto was always a mailing list to some of the people who were on it. (ok, I wasn't there for the first week, so perhaps, it wasn't true in the very earliest days.) I think you definitely can have it both ways, though, as my contributions indicate, it's a community for me. >But when many old timers and new timers alike argued >(then and now) that "Ecto" is just a word, and it's ridiculous >(even "malicious" and flame-baiting) for anyone to dare to >question its use by list members for a *public* event, Once again, I don't see why you can't have it both ways. Every time the word ecto is used, it does not mean the list. I guess I should just give up on that point, as either you believe it or you don't, and you clearly believe that the use of the word ecto implicitly implies sponsored, supported by and directly related to the list. Which is fine. You can believe that, but it seems that others have taken the word in somewhat other directions. >People who are comparing the recent use of the word >to *private* gatherings held by Ectophiles in times past >are completely missing the point. There's absolutely no >comparison whatsoever. People who think that Charley >just has it in for Meredith are completely missing the >point. People who think that Charley's posts on the >subject represented nothing but an ego binge (as if he >were saying "Nobody asked *my* permission to hold >an Ectofest!") are so *TOTALLY* and *COMPLETELY* >missing the point that I'm dumbfounded and speechless >with disappointment and sadness. This is exactly how debates with my dad go. Well, I think it's time to concede, which is the only way I can get my dad to stop reiterating his points. If I don't agree with the point of view, I must not understand it. So, isn't this the point.... No individual should go off and do their own thing that utilizes the word ecto (as that implies it is a list sponsored activity) without first running the idea by the list (i.e., community) to make sure they approve. I think the publicly expressed view has been that it would be the courteous thing to do, but that it's not really that big a deal. And that answer appears to be unacceptable. Or maybe I still am not getting the point. And while these issues can be viewed conceptually as isolated philosophical issues, in reality, they are tightly bound up with all the things you mention above. The issues don't stand isolated from the language and tone used to express them, or the impressions that are associated with them. Those things frequently overwhelm the points being made, and, in some cases, call to question whether the philosophical point is really the question, or just the means to put forward the other agenda. And I'm not saying that it is, but the perception is often as important as the intent. >Well, why should he care if no one else does? Why should >anybody? This just reiterates the point above Vickie. People obviously care. That's why they even bothered to discuss the issues. That's why we discuss anything. If no one cared, the list would be a void. Once again, the only choices you present us with are agreeing, or not caring. I disagree, so therefore I guess I don't care, and I know you don't believe that. ok, so who's next on flogging this poor dead horse? neal np: holgram of baal - the church ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 22:10:38 PDT From: "Nick Nadel" Subject: new albums Paula Cole-Amen: God, this is a dissapointment. I've only listened to it a couple of times but the only songs that have stayed with me are the soon to be megahit "I believe in love" and "Pearl". The album has none of the urgency of This Fire. The lyrics are uniformly atrocious, she's gotten all new-agey spritual/preachy like Jewel. None of the well-written confessionals from her previous work. I'll give the album another chance, but damn, this is a shame. Dot Allison-Afterglow: This one makes up for the Paula Cole letdown. Fans of Beth Orton, Dido and Sarah Mclachlan will like this fellow Arista artist ( they must be desperate for another Sarah). Vocals reminded me of Julee Cruise sometimes. Lots of cool trip-hop production, members of Death in Vegas appear on the album. Some really great songs. Tori Amos-To Venus and Back: Still digging it. Suede is a great song, Spring Haze, Concertina, Glory of The 80's, Datura are great too. the live disc is worth the price alone. New Cowboy Junkies B-side collection is coming! They are on an independent label now and have their own website. They got dropped in that big Polygram record merger that Aimee Mann got dropped in too. - -nick ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 01:12:59 -0400 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: too much to give a proper name. long. possibly boring. At 3:27 PM -0400 10/1/99, Chris Sampson wrote: > * "One" opines > * "Two" dissents >At this point a debate or other civil discussion can ensue. > >OR > > * "One" opines > * "Two" dissents: rudely, sarcastically, impulsively. >At this point, we achieve critical mass. > > * "One" retorts. "Three" thru "Twenty" defend "One"... except >"Seventeen" who sides with "Two" and, along with "Twenty-One" thru >"Thirty-Eight" chooses the "Other Side" (some out of truly held beliefs, >some out of the love of a fight, and some for sport... and still others >for Goddess-Knows-Why). We eventually digress (it is as axiomatic as it >is inevitable)... "Fourteen" wrote this ("No I didn't say 14") and >fights break out, now, in the stands... Chris, I laughed so hard reading this! I think I shall go off to listen to "Taking Tiger Mountain (By Strategy)" now. :) > I find it funny that none who scolded hold any elevated position in >this list... maybe a certain deference, but NOBODY who scolded had the >actual power to exile the "offensive" from the list... Everybody who has ever been exiled from the list has been exiled by the only person who has that power - themselves. neal ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 01:18:51 -0400 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: Uhh, perhaps it's not my place to say this, but... At 3:10 AM +0000 10/2/99, Larry Troxler wrote: >.., especially since I'm just a recent subscriber to what I thought was >a simple mailing list for Happy Rhodes fans and perhaps a springboard to >discussing other music, not realizing I was joining some sort of weird >cult, welcome to the cult of ecto Larry. The list is predominantly what you thought, you have just joined in the midst of a bit of turmoil. It's pretty uncommon, but not unheard of. I believe that if you ride it out, you will find what you are looking for. >CAN >EVERYONE >JUST >PLEASE >SHUT >THE >FUCK >UP >ALREADY !!?!?! Well, actually, no. First rule of ecto (can we maybe put this at the top of the FAQ now?) is that no one has the power to shut down a thread. Your best friend in that case is the delete key. It seems like a pretty simple observation - if people are still talking about it, they obviously still care. Doesn't it seem a little odd to you to join a list and immediately start attempting to define it's content? I don't think that's really the best way to become a member of a community. Maybe you should try telling us how you discovered Happy Rhodes and the list in the first place. That's typically a far better introduction. neal useful guide to common abreviations NP (Now Playing): Hologram of Baal - The Church NR (Now Reading): Jude the Obscure - Thomas Hardy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 01:45:46 -0400 From: Paul Kim Subject: Re: new albums (dot allison) At 10:10 PM 10/1/99 PDT, Nick Nadel wrote: >Dot Allison-Afterglow: This one makes up for the Paula Cole letdown. Fans of >Beth Orton, Dido and Sarah Mclachlan will like this fellow Arista artist ( >they must be desperate for another Sarah). Vocals reminded me of Julee >Cruise sometimes. Lots of cool trip-hop production, members of Death in >Vegas appear on the album. Some really great songs. I might be wrong here, but I think Dot Allison was the lead singer for the group One Dove who had a modern rock hit back around 1993 or 1994 called "One Love" or something like that. She's been getting a fair amount of press in Billboard lately. Paul "i am now a producer" Kim ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V5 #330 **************************