From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V5 #327 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Thursday, September 30 1999 Volume 05 : Number 327 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: An Interesting Copyright nuance [Greg Dunn ] RE: An Interesting Copyright nuance [Paul Kim ] Re: new(s) stuff [Leon van Stuivenberg ] RE: Ectofest [Paul Blair ] Recent events [Bill Mazur ] Re: FW: Peter Hammill (Plus, Germany & Eastern Europe travels) [neal copp] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:14:44 -0500 From: Greg Dunn Subject: Re: An Interesting Copyright nuance >To the best of my knowledge all Rounder artists get to decide when to >record, what to record, when to release, when and where to tour, etc. >I don't actually know for a fact that this is their official policy, >but this is what I've seen based on knowing a fair number of Rounder >artists personally, as well the president and some other people in the >company. I do know that their policy on recordings is, the artist >gives them the complete recording as they want it, and Rounder >packages, duplicates, distributes, and helps promote it. Seems to be true. Our friend and Rounder artist Carrie Newcomer certainly has a remarkable amount of artistic license when scheduling albums and concerts. In fact, she recorded and released a live album early this year -- on Philo/Rounder -- wherein all the profits were donated to a charity (Planned Parenthood). Carrie and Robert had pretty much free rein in deciding which tracks to include from the two concerts they recorded. It's great when a label can, even tacitly, support an artist's cause like this. - -- | Greg Dunn | don't open your eyes, you won't | | gregdunn@indy.net | like what you see. the blind | | The Sultan of Slack(tm) | have been blessed with security. | | http://www.indy.net/~gregdunn/ | Trent Reznor | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:45:31 -0400 From: Paul Kim Subject: RE: An Interesting Copyright nuance I'm pretty sure that senor fog knows his stuff in this area since we discussed this a little off line, but I just felt compelled to straighten up a few facts. Why? I don't know. I don't have the time...I have to write two counterpoint pieces for tomorrow. Damn this stupid school. At 05:43 PM 9/29/99 -0400, Foghorn J Fornorn wrote: >The overall process is this, and forgive >my oversimplification: > >- artist sends demos, gets record company interest. >- Record company offers advance to record album. In return, record company >gets all song copyrights. >- Artist spends advance recording album >- Record company may or may not release and distribute it. Assume they do. >- Royalties are paid to artist, LESS amount of advance. The record company will (generally) own the recording copyrights (denoted by a P symbol) of each track that is done in the session, but they won't own the song copyrights. Whoever the publisher is (or the songwriter, if the songwriter hasn't given his/her stuff to a publisher) owns the song copyright and makes the record company pay mechanical royalties for each song's use in the recording situation. Now, some record companies may have artists sign over their Publishing rights when they sign a record deal. This of course is a horrible thing for a songwriter/artist to do. Publishing royalties is where a lot of musicians make their living money. >So the record company keeps the lion's share of the profits of the record, >the artist essentially pays for production themselves, gets a measly 7% of >sales if they're lucky, and has lost the rights to the songs they wrote, in >perpetuity. This is standard operating procedure. This must change. generally, 1 in 10 albums released are successful. That can be a large number either way. It's of course a larger bad number for a smaller company than for a huge major label. Also, the artist does have the ability to get a clause in the contract wherein ownership of the masters reverts to them after their contract is up. But that is a difficult clause to get. Standard operating procedure should change, but there has to be an organized wisening up of the artists and the musicians and, hell, even the star-wannabes before they can kick the gigantic major label business in the nuts and get a better deal. ROSHAMBO! Paul "kicking some mad flavor in your ear like a wet willy" Kim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 06:56:50 +0200 From: Leon van Stuivenberg Subject: Re: new(s) stuff Hi, FYI: > Nobody told me that Loreena McKennitt had a new one out. Live From Paris <<<< Subject: [old-ways] "Live In Paris And Toronto" released today (tomorrow)! Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:54:20 +0100 From: Karen Shook Dear listfolk, As some of you may know, "Live In Paris And Toronto" will be available in stores in most places 'round the world today (Europe, Australasia) or tomorrow (North America). Nothing nefarious in the difference of dates, by the way... simply that records tend to be released on Mondays in Europe and Tuesdays in North America. For those of you who might not have caught previous postings, the version of "Live In Paris And Toronto" which is being released to retail is *exactly* the same as the one we have been selling via Quinlan Road mail order since May - same track listing, same number of songs (17), same versions etc. The only difference is that the mail-order version comes in a book-bound sleeve (ie it looks a little bit like a tiny hard- cover book). The retail version comes in a jewel case (that standard CD case made of clear plastic) and is wrapped in a gold-embossed sleeve. The artwork is the same in both cases (with allowances for the different format) and the CD booklet inside is the same. <<<< imho, getting the book-bound sleeve version is worth the trouble (it looks (& feels:) really nice), and at least that way some decent amount of money goes to the fund; i don't know how much that is in the case of the retail version. Leon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:05:06 -0400 From: Paul Blair Subject: RE: Ectofest I know Vickie has a lot of respect for Charley, but I can't see his motivation as anything but malicious--or as so out of touch with reality that it might as well have been malicious. There is simply no reasonable warrant for his stubborn insistence that, by calling their event "Ectofest," Chuck and Meredith were representing it as a collective action by the list. It is perfectly legitimate to call an event "Ectofest" if it is intended to appeal to ecto list members, or simply to present ectophilic music. It was apparent to everyone from the beginning that this was not an event organized by the list as a whole, nor is there any good reason to think that it ought to have been. Frankly, this has been an great example of why I don't trust anybody who wraps himself in the holy mantle of community service. "Where there's service, there's someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." Or, in other language: "Nobody asked *my* permission to hold an Ectofest!" Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:24:26 -0700 From: Bill Mazur Subject: Recent events Hello Everyone, I have been very reluctant to comment on most of the recent activity on the list. It seemed a little dangerous to enter the fray. I do feel that as a member of the community I really should express how I feel during these times. For the record here are my comments on recent events: 1) I applaud the initiative and caring of Meth and Chuck (along with the musicians and volunteers) to put on a wonderful event such as Ectofest. I truly hope that there will more such events. I also hope that the recent events on the list over the past few weeks don't put a damper on that happening. 2) I believe that Charley had the right to express his viewpoints. I wish that he didn't feel compelled to leave the list. I also wish that he didn't become so frustrated and angry (these are my perceptions of his recent posts) that he ended up personally attacking Meth. I was very sad to see that it came to that in the end. 3) There are many people who post to Ecto that I agree with as far as their opinions and their musical tastes. There are also a few people who post to Ecto that I completely disagree with as far as their opinions and musical tastes are concerned. I believe the list can accommodate all of these opinions and tastes as long as everyone treats each other with respect. For the most part, everyone normally shows respect to their Ecto brothers and sisters. I would personally love to see things begin to find that level of acceptance here on Ecto again soon. 4) I have been on the list now for about a year. I have witnessed two major flame wars in that time and a few minor incidents in between. Ecto is the first news group or mailing list that I have actively participated in because of the high code of ethics generally maintained here. I still believe that the list does maintain one of the highest signal-to-noise ratios on the net. I agree with what Jeff said here: Personally, I'd like to think ecto is a friendlier place that tolerates different opinions a little more than I've seen here of late, but maybe that's because I identify with ecto myself, and would like it to live up to the fuzzy-blue-inclusive-friendly-environment that I've, perhaps mistakenly, believed it to be. I read the following quote on the Ecto web site some months ago. It prompted me to subscribe to Ecto in the first place. I thought that it might be appropriate to quote it here: ecto quickly grew from a forum dedicated exclusively to the discussion of the music of Happy Rhodes to a place where fans not just of Happy's work, but of ectophilic music and art in general have gathered to discuss everything from music to books to movies to art to technology and more. We've even been known to exchange recipes. :) Basically, nothing is off-topic here except for flames (long-time members can still count on one hand the number of flamewars that have occurred on the list in the past 7 years), and the list maintains one of the highest signal-to-noise ratios on the Net. ecto is a very special place that has introduced hundreds of people to music they never would have discovered otherwise; given independent musicians help in starting down the road to success; brought soulmates together; and provided its members with an open forum in which they can discuss pretty much anything that's on their mind. Anyone with an interest in ectophilic music is welcome: you don't have to be a rabid Happy fan to join in the discussion (but beware, chances are you'll be a fan before too long :). 5) I love Happy Rhodes' music and lyrics. I am listening to Warpaint as I write this letter. Her lyrics on "To Live In Your World" touched me in a unique way tonight as I was writing. One of the reasons that I love Happy's lyrics and music is because she expresses to me everything that it means to be human. We are all beautiful, with so much potential to become higher spiritual beings, yet we are all also flawed and troubled in some ways as well. Ecto seems to reflect that paradox at times. I wish you all well! Peace!!! Bill P.S. - As always, I really dug Veronica's poetic response! n.p. - HR _Warpaint_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:16:58 -0400 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: FW: Peter Hammill (Plus, Germany & Eastern Europe travels) At 8:38 AM -0400 9/29/99, Foghorn J Fornorn wrote: >Anne Watts Bio >Anne Watts is a musician and composer whose music has been heard at the >Merce Cunningham Studio and AIR Gallery, New York; the Philadelphia Theater >Festival and the Theater of Nations; Center Stage and the Theater Project, >Baltimore; and Embassy Row, Washington, D.C. She has performed with author >Maurice Sendak, the UMBC Gamelan Orchestra, blues pianist Mose Vinson, and >visual artist Lucio Pozzi. She is currently performing her original score >for Buster Keaton's silent film classic, Steamboat Bill , Jr. with her band >Boister, featuring accordion, drums, trombone, bass clarinet, guitar, and >bass. I just saw this a few weeks ago and it was totally wonderful. It's a treat to see Steamboat Bill, Jr. in a theater anyway, but with a new score with a live band, wow! I was under the impression that might have been the first time it was performed. It was commisioned by the Walters Art Gallery film series, which became defunct before the score was completed. It met with wild enthusiasm from the folks in the theater that night, as did the previous movie, Berlin, Symphony of a Great City, which was accompanied live by German percussionist Steven Garling. This was also amazing. I don't know if Anne Watts (and Boister, her band) are touring Steamboat Bill, but if it pops up in your town, don't miss it! I've never seen her perform prior to that, though she does play around town on occasion. Sadly, I will not be able to see either of the local Peter Hammill shows, as I will be on vacation. Which I guess I should mention here too. I'm going to Eastern Europe for 2 weeks. Not sure if there are any ectophiles out there, but I'll also be in Germany for at least a little while. My itinerary is still very much up in the air, but I'm flying into Frankfurt and staying there on either end of going to Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic. So, if anyone out there wants to get together or has any suggestions for what I should see in Eastern Europe, let me know! neal np: Child - Jane Siberry ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V5 #327 **************************