From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V5 #322 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, September 27 1999 Volume 05 : Number 322 Today's Subjects: ----------------- katell show ["Nick Nadel" ] i really didn't want to get into this but... [blah blah blah ] thanks and more... [blah blah blah ] Re: erm.... [Joseph Zitt ] RE: ecto-digest V5 #319 ["Drew Harrington" ] Shameless Promotion [AURALG@aol.com] who wants to be a lesbian.........step foward now [FAMarcus@aol.com] running with the baton now [FAMarcus@aol.com] Re: Shameless Promotion [Rubber DeNiro ] Re: who wants to be a lesbian.........step foward now [JavaHo@aol.com] Ectofest [AURALG@aol.com] Re: Shameless Promotion [Jeff Wasilko ] A Kym Brown date in Vancouver [Neile Graham ] Indiegrrl Tour ["Mitchell A. Pravatiner" ] Re: Ectofest [Rubber DeNiro ] Re: Ectofest [neal copperman ] Re: Aimee Mann [WonderWorld ] LoLo Records [Gary Davis ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:37:36 PDT From: "Nick Nadel" Subject: katell show any new yorkers attending her show at joes pub on tues? let me know, i'd like to meet some of y'all new yorkers! come on katell fans, she needs us! - -nick ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 01:17:12 -0700 From: blah blah blah Subject: i really didn't want to get into this but... i have avoided saying anything about this, partially because i think people who contribute to threads like this do nothing but prolong something that should be laid to rest, turning something that seemed small into something profoundly big, but also because i didn't think it was worth the effort, as it has been in my experience both sides can discuss until the chickens come home and nothing changes. nevertheless, i am decided to perpetuate the thread a little bit longer, more out of my own sense of peace, and a feeling that i need to vent a little. perhaps something will come of it, and perhaps nothing will. feel free to hit the delete key if you wish as this will be long. i have quoted what ONE TWO THREE said for easy digestability. not that i am saying ONE TWO THREE is constipated. i would never PRESUME anything of that thought. even if it might be true. which i am not saying it necessarily is: > I’ll mention in passing that I’ve received quite a bit of private e-mail > since my original posting, ranging from high praise to near death threats. > I’ll just say thanks to everyone for writing, but I find it curious that > what I considered innocouous offhand comments generated any interest at all. perhaps you should put more thought into what you write to the list then. just as YOU would NEVER presume anything of anyone, i would never presume to know anything about your level of intelligence. nevertheless, it seems that you would have to be rather obtuse to not understand that what may have seemed to be meaningless and offhand, was in fact rather significant to others. all you need to understand this, is the fact that numerous people have opted to take time out to email you directly about this. perhaps you are new to ecto, or new to the internet or whatever. i get the digest version so i often don't read who wrote what, rather following general threads, and occasionally delurking for questions or interjections. but the first thing you and every one else should learn when they do email is that TONE is nearly impossible to achieve. whether you make an offhand comment or an incredibly serious comment, they are both going to be read at the same level, unless something indicates otherwise (a smiley face, a "*shrug*" or some indications of mood). take note, and understand this. > Since a few of the correspondents, taking a grain of sand and making it into > a beach, accused me of being a “gay-basher, let me assure everyone that > nothing could be further from the truth. i would not call you a gay basher from your comments, but i would have presumed to call you homophobic. there is a difference, though the line is fine. the reality is what you said was offensive to me and probably to a lot of other people on this list. to quote what you said "Hey, isn't that Coco Club a famous gay bar on the gay bay? Not that it's not ok to be gay. I've never tried it, but I'm young yet...send me some literature.Do not write back and chide me for calling you gay. You'll see that I didn't, if you read carefully...which gets us to the root of your problem, I think. You'll find a support group at 1-800-ABCDEFG" i am sure you meant this in jest. but how am i to know this? saying "send me some literature" is just downright rude. would you have told a survivor of AUSCHWITZ. "gee i'm not jewish, but let me rent SCHINDLER's LIST?" probably not. though who am i to presume what you would do. perhaps you would be equally as flippant in said situation. you have no clue as to what it is like to be gay, just as i have no clue as to what it is like to be an african american female. and let me tell you all the SAPPHIRE and AUDRE LORDE that i read isn't going to change that. it may help me understand more, it may help me empathize more, and it may make me think a little bit more before i open my mouth and make an innocouous offhand comment. but it isn't going magically transform me into an african american women. and though you never EXPLICITLY accused DREW or anyone of being gay, it SEEMED implied in the line about "which gets us to the root of your problem." not to QUIBBLE, but the COCO CLUB is a lesbian club. and though i am not one to presume anything, i have met DREW and i would probably gander a guess that he is not a lesbian. though again, i am probably should not presume anything. gender identity and sexual orientation are two very different things. more likely though, that line about 1-800-ABCDEFG seems to imply that were not accusing DREW of being gay, but rather that he was just illiterate, and thus an reference to HOOK ON PHONICS. since i have received several personal emails from DREW and have read posts from him on the ECTO-DIGEST my guess would again be that your are wrong, and that DREW can in fact read. further conversations with him lead me to believe that he is quite intelligent. but my deductions could be completely off. :) > Two of my dearest friends are homosexual…one is my cousin. have a cookie. one of my biggest pet peeves is when people try to defend themselves and their actions with this excuse. "i'm not racist, i have a black friend." "i'm not homophobic, i have a gay friend." big whoop. if you're really not racist or homophobic, why they hell do you have to defend yourself? your actions should be enough. sad to have to quote a cliché but actions do speak louder than words. yeah, maybe you have a gay friend. yeah, maybe you have a friend or two that is a person of color. this doesn't stop you from saying stupid offensive things apparently. > I am sure now that someone will write and take > issue with me using the word "homosexual" in one instance, instead of "gay", > which I think is a stupid sounding term. And I’m sure I can’t say queer, > even though “gay” folks say it all the time, because I’m not one… should I say > “h-word” too? whether or not you think gay is a stupid sounding word, it is the word that is being currently used by the community. i find AFRICAN AMERICAN a mouthful but that doesn't necessarily mean i don't use it because it is cumbersome. the AFRICAN AMERICAN community has chosen it as the appropriate phrase for their identity. or are you suggesting i should use BLACK, COLORED, or NEGRO because i find them shorter and thus more convenient to use? then again, i notice you use the word black. more power to you and your antiquated terms. i don't take much issue on your use of the word homosexual, as you have said much more offensive things. but i do tend to find the word rather clinical in nature. like calling a white guy a CAUCASIAN. homosexual seems like a condition a person is, rather than an identity. whether or not a person wants to self identify themselves that way is their personal choice. i personal use the word GAY or QUEER to identify myself, but then i rarely feel a need to self identify myself nowadays. most people who meet me are more interested in who i am, then in who i sleep with. i have no patience for those people out there who are only interested in who i find sexually desirable. > Ridiculous Perhaps. but semantics are important. words shape our thoughts and represent who we are and how we are viewed. keep that in mind before you speak so thoughtlessly again. and before you get up in arms and accuse me of being a PC fascist, let me remind you that i have no problem with whatever you say or whatever terms you use. those are your choices. just be aware of the outcome and the fallout that will occur if you make those choices. use the phrases you wish to use, but realize that if you say something i find offensive, i will be less likely to read anything at all by you the next time, nor will i be willing to offer my help for any questions or queries. keep offending the list, and soon you will be ignored by most everyone. > Just for the record, my sexual preference is for Asian women, but if I ever > took a notion to switch from tacos to hot dogs, it’s no big deal > in my mind. nice to know you have a clear idea of what your sexual preference is. most of us who are gay had to go through hell to figure it out. most of us at one time or another wished that we COULD have switched. after all it certainly would have been easier on us if we had. HOPEFULLY most of us now no longer wish that. the reality is it takes MORE than just a notion to switch. perhaps you should sit down and have a talk with your two gay friends about this. they could probably explain it in more detail if you would like. and how come your sexual preference is for ASIAN women and not ORIENTAL women? just wondering. :) irvin ps. by the way, the women in (e)motion recordings have never been all that great in sound quality. this is one of the reasons that ANI DIFRANCO refused to let her concert be released domestically here in the states. i personally have found that a clean quality audience recording has a better balance of bass than a soundboard recording. i have both an audience and a soundboard recording of the same LIZ PHAIR show from 93 and i much prefer the audience one because of this. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 01:20:01 -0700 From: blah blah blah Subject: erm.... catching up i read: meth said: > (Note: the posters are *very* limited (I think there may not be more than > 20-25 left), and kids, they're worth it. Irvin Lin produced a true work of > art -- when I took mine in over the weekend to get it framed, the workers > at the frame shop were positively drooling over it.) i just wanted to let everyone know that i paid MEREDITH lots of money to say that. don't believe a word she says. cheers thanks a lot, and a check is in the mail to you METH! :) irvin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 02:03:39 -0700 From: blah blah blah Subject: thanks and more... this is belated but thanks DMW and GLENN MCDONALD for info about GAZE, IDA and ORANGE CAKE MIX. and heads up to JOHN for the ALUMINUM GROUP info on the I WANNA BE KATE compiliation. i have been SOOO ambivalent about getting that disc, but now that i have that little bit more of information, that might just tip it over the edge for me to get it. seen a slew of concerts, including the fabulous KRISTIN HERSH, THE MAGNETIC FIELDS and AIMEE MANN. all three were great. the version of VOICES CARRY that AIMEE did in the encore was brilliant. i never really listened to the song all that much or the lyrics, but the way she delivered it was quite beautiful and haunting. i wish there was a way to get a copy of this version. AIMEE said she has succesfully bought back her songs from the evil record company and the album should be available at her website in the next couple of weeks. surf over to www.aimeemann.com for more info. and of course THE MAGNETIC FIELDS was great. STEPHIN is fantastic, and his version of COME BACK FROM SAN FRANCISCO is so much better than the 69 LOVE SONG version, despite the fact that i love SHIRLEY's voice. kinda reminiscent of KIRSTY MACCOLL. again i would kill to get a copy of his version. those of you who haven't gotten 69 LOVE SONGS and are familiar with STEPHIN's music should run and get it. VOL 1 and 3 are stronger than 2, but all three are excellent. MERGE is reprinting the box set so get that if you want all three discs. it has a fat booklet with pictures and an interview/conversation with STEPHIN which goes through all 69songs one by one. you will find the three volumes certainly have some filler songs, but on the whole are quite excellent, and quite varied. my boss thought one of the songs sounded like JOHNNY CASH. with four different singers, plus STEPHIN the set is more akin to his THE 6THS project than THE MAGNETIC FIELDS. found the limited edt of MEDUSA by ANNIE LENNOX with the live disc in it. very happy about that. cheers. FYI, LAMB is playing on OCT 8 (day before my birthday!) here in the bay area. and will do an instore performance at AMOEBA records on OCT 9 (same birthday as SEAN LENNON, JOHN LENNON, and PJ HARVEY!). what a great bday present. also LOW will be playing on OCT 1. check them out. their latest SECRET NAME is faboo, and they are quite good live. someone asked about FAYE WONG. she has a new album out, but i haven't picked it up yet, so i can't comment. it is on it's way though. she's great. i have talked at lengths about her, and could probably dig up some old emails about her. just email me direct. is there a entry in the ECTOGUIDE TO GOOD MUSIC? i would offer to edit it, make it, but i am so NOTORIOUSLY lazy about things like that....maybe when i get my act together.... i made a mix tape of her music for someone on this list, and would be willing to dub it again for whoever wants it. email me direct for info.... or check out http://www.wongfei.com the discographyis pretty complete with pictures of the discs. this is a good reference so you can see what the CD looks like, making it easier to find in the import shops, if you don't speak chinese. i would recommend getting IMPATIENCE and WONG FEI as a good starting part. IMPATIENCE features a COCTEAU TWINS cover, and WONG FEI features a couple of COCTEAU TWINS collaborations. the recent SONG TOUR is pretty decent too, but more mainstream cantonpop less etheriel sounding. HUNDRED THOUSAND WHYS features her cover of SILENT ALL THESE YEARS as does FAYE BEST. SKY features her CRANBERRIES cover of DREAMS, and i think INGRATIATE ONESELF features her cover of THE SUNDAYS HERE'S WHERE THE STORY ENDS. i think. i don't own it actually. have to pick that one up still. those who are looking to expand their ASIAN POP should check out TANYA, who has gotten some criticism for her blatant jumping on the alterna-pop bandwagon, but i still like her stuff. kinda SUNDAYS like guitar work, but with a more straightforward chinese pop singing on top. the title song off the album i have is called BORING. irvin ps. CHARLEY the disc is on the way with a little bonus. no need for the pedicure. i am quite happy with the state of my toenails, thanks for the offer. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:14:50 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: erm.... On Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 01:20:01AM -0700, blah blah blah wrote: > i just wanted to let everyone know that i paid MEREDITH lots of money > to say that. don't believe a word she says. > > cheers thanks a lot, and a check is in the mail to you METH! Well, there's the answer, then: everyone please compliment IRVIN, and have him direct the checks to reducing the Ectofest debt. :-) - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:15:04 -0700 From: "Drew Harrington" Subject: RE: ecto-digest V5 #319 One Two Three (Can I call you One?), > Not only that, but more importantly, it's entertaining. Yes, I did listen to it and I agree. I enjoyed it. > 3. I understand that you claim you're not taking sides, but what is the > obtuse point that you're trying to sharpen? If you were concerned > about the artist's right that the work not exist, and I'm not > saying that you're not, why are you lurking in a dark corner in > the Coco Club in San Francisco, covertly recording a performance? I did not say I was concerned. I did not say I was not concerned. The recording of Veda in question was made from the front row (corners are a bad place for mics). Veda gave her blessing both for the recording and the distribution on the recording on Ecto and Trajectory. She said, "as long as no one makes any money off it". (This is where I personally draw my lines as well.) This is why I refuse cash. It eliminates any possibility that there can be a misunderstanding. I figure if I can take the time to make you copies, the least you can do is take the time to mail blanks. No big deal. In reference to Fog's comments: As for the sound quality, I have to admit a little paternal pride. Maybe it's not as good as I suggested. Most likely I prefer it to women in (E)motion because I was at the show and because the banter is still there. On One's last point: I do not know what this has to do with the subject at hand, but... Yes the Coco Club is a (primarily) lesbian bar - although I was not aware that it was famous. And yes, I have to admit that if I were a woman I would very likely be a lesbian. Drew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:46:16 EDT From: AURALG@aol.com Subject: Shameless Promotion Hey All !! Just wanted to chime in with some shameless self promotion. Live solo show Saturday Oct 16th in VA. Check www.harvestfaire.com or 757-539-4523 for details. Lots of Wiccan, Pagan, Rennaisance goings on. Mid-Eastern Dancers, bonfires and god or no-god knows what else. Live solo show Saturday Nov 6th in Phila. Starsend Concert Series at St. Mary's Church. Yours truly opening for Black Tape For A Blue Girl. Lots of trippy, ambient, Goth going on. Check www.starsend.org Hope this note finds you all fine and well and at peace. Thank you for letting me grab a moment of your time and space. Congrats on Ectofest !!! See you in the ethers, KB ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:09:49 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: who wants to be a lesbian.........step foward now In a message dated 9/27/99 1:22:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, drewh@bitwise.com writes: << And yes, I have to admit that if I were a woman I would very likely be a lesbian. Drew >> I want to take the baton here and publicly state that yes, if i were a woman, i too, would be a lesbian. hell.......i'd actually like to be a lesbian now. is that so bad??? fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:12:34 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: running with the baton now i would also like to state that if i had any friends at all i would like them also to be lesbians, gays, and blacks. thank you for listening. fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:29:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Rubber DeNiro Subject: Re: Shameless Promotion - --- AURALG@aol.com wrote: > Hey All !! > Just wanted to chime in with some shameless self > promotion. > > Live solo show Saturday Oct 16th in VA. > Check www.harvestfaire.com or 757-539-4523 for > details. > Lots of Wiccan, Pagan, Rennaisance goings on. > Mid-Eastern Dancers, bonfires > and god or no-god knows what else. > > Live solo show Saturday Nov 6th in Phila. Starsend > Concert Series at St. > Mary's Church. Yours truly opening for Black Tape > For A Blue Girl. > Lots of trippy, ambient, Goth going on. > Check www.starsend.org > > Hope this note finds you all fine and well and at > peace. Thank you for > letting me grab a moment of your time and space. > Congrats on Ectofest !!! Sorry for the confusion, Kevin, but Ectofest actually had nothing to do with Ecto: congratulations should be directed solely to Meredith Tarr, though oddly the responsibility for the event's wobbly outcome is being shouldered by the group as a whole... - --Charley Darbo > > See you in the ethers, > KB > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:15:39 EDT From: JavaHo@aol.com Subject: Re: who wants to be a lesbian.........step foward now Fred and Drew volunteer: << << And yes, I have to admit that if I were a woman I would very likely be a lesbian. Drew >> I want to take the baton here and publicly state that yes, if i were a woman, i too, would be a lesbian. hell.......i'd actually like to be a lesbian now. is that so bad??? fred >> I've been trying to get Richard Konrad to come out of the lesbian closet for years. 'Tis true. Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:16:50 EDT From: AURALG@aol.com Subject: Ectofest Hi again, Before I get any more email regarding my misdirected congrats, I want to say that I'm completely aware that specific congrats regarding Ectofest go to the organizers and beneficiaries. My congrats to the list was for the spirit and the way the list has blossomed into get-togethers and deepening friendships and a great exchange of ideas, music and info. Ectofest was merely one example. The list is a very special place and I just wanted to acknowledge it's conduct, vibe and warmth. You guys are truly amazing. That's all KB ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:19:08 -0400 From: Jeff Wasilko Subject: Re: Shameless Promotion On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 01:29:30PM -0700, Rubber DeNiro wrote: > > Congrats on Ectofest !!! > > Sorry for the confusion, Kevin, but Ectofest actually > had nothing to do with Ecto: congratulations should be > directed solely to Meredith Tarr, though oddly the > responsibility for the event's wobbly outcome is being > shouldered by the group as a whole... Ectofest had nothing to do with Ecto? I'm confused. I thought it was organized by list-members, featured bands often discussed on Ecto and was one of the largest gatherings of Ectophiles I've seen in a long time. Hmm. Maybe I'm not getting enough sleep. - -jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:23:43 -0700 From: Neile Graham Subject: A Kym Brown date in Vancouver From Kym Brown: > I'm showcasing new material with my band Thurs. Oct. 7 (7pm) >at The Chameleon Urban Lounge 801 Georgia St. >Downtown Vancouver (in The Hotel Georgia) Damn I wish I could be there! I guess with all the conversation I don't dare ask if anyone can tape this... - --Neile n.p. kaitlyn ni donovan _songs for 'three days'_ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:37:10 -0500 (CDT) From: "Mitchell A. Pravatiner" Subject: Indiegrrl Tour Last Friday I went to a show on the Indiegrrl Tour, a tour of independent women singer-songwriters. Everyone on the program was excellent--both the music itself, and the between-songs talk by the artists. Information on future shows, and other aspects of the tour, is available on their website, www.indiegrrl.com . Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:41:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Rubber DeNiro Subject: Re: Ectofest Kevin (and Ecto): Sorry; that was pretty immature of me, to've used you to make a point (and not a very sharp one, at that) to the list about the way Ectofest was handled. When I said that Ectofest had nothing to do with Ecto, what I meant was that, in organizing Ectofest, Meredith behaved in an entirely un-community manner, but has allowed the misconception to continue that Ectofest was, indeed, a community event. Meredith never discussed Ectofest, in any way, with Ecto, until it was a done deal. She never even mentioned its existence, let alone bounced off the group her desire to use the group's imprimatur for the festival. This seemed, to me, a betrayal of Ecto's community spirit and nearly organic existence as an entity in its own right. I'm not even suggesting that anyone would have objected to anything in her plans for the event, but we all, every member of the Ecto community, had at least the right to be conscious of actions--public, even publicized actions, at that--that were carried out on its seeming behalf and with its implied support. Personally, I'd go so far to say that, in naming it as an Ecto event, Meredith should have opened it up to input and active participation from the individual members of Ecto. By putting on her own event, in her own back yard, with her own stable of favorite artists, and with proceeds going to her own designated charities, and without even the opportunity of input from Ecto, Meredith showed, in my opinion, a very un-Ectopian arrogance and hubris in taking it upon herself to speak for Ecto as a whole when Ecto, as a whole, had not asked her to. I attempted--somewhat more obliquely--to make this point when Meredith first announced the dates of Ectofest to the group, but was disappointed to learn that the consensus on Ecto was that none of that mattered, because it was for a good cause, and besides, "Ecto" is just a word. This wholesale missing of the point--though no doubt my fault--was so discouraging to me that I simply bowed out of the discussion and made no further attempt to engage the debate. But now with the subsequent revelation that the event was not a financial success (one participant in the discussion estimated the loss at $1500 and was not, to my knowledge, disputed), Ecto--once again, as a community--has rallied to the rescue and is racking its collective brains to discover a plan to bail out its namesake festival. Needless to say, this would not be the case if the event had not been labeled as an Ecto event. This is all very heartwarming, of course, and I'm tremendously impressed by Ecto's strength as a community in taking up this challenge. But I feel that the point should be made that this is a burden (noble though it may be) that was handed to Ecto by the mere fact that Meredith named her event Ectofest, a point which further emphasizes the point that I was attempting to make in the first place: that "Ecto" is obviously _not_ "just a word"; it is, in this case, an acknowledgment of responsibility for the event so labeled, which responsibility should have been acknowledged and reciprocated by Meredith before the fact; her lack of respect for Ecto did not earn her this act of charity on the list's part. Especially since the assistance has been offered without the kind of questions that I would certainly have asked: Why did the event end up in the hole? How much money was taken in? How much was spent on the way, and how was it spent? Exactly _who_ is out $1500? Does this mean the charities named as beneficiaries actually received nothing at all? Is that a good thing? With this in mind, will the artists want to participate in future Ecto-identified events? So again, Kevin, I apologize for yanking you into the middle of this when all you did was send an encouraging note to the list. (And I apologize to Ecto for being so out of step with the way so many of the rest of you think. There is a greater and greater discrepancy between the way I view the world and the way Greater Ecto views the world; nowadays I delete probably 85% of the posts unread.) - --Charley Darbo (Footnote to Ecto: Quoting Abba, "thank you for the music." Goodbye and good luck. And congratulations on Ectofest. Over and out.) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:36:25 -0400 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: Ectofest At 3:41 PM -0700 9/27/99, Rubber DeNiro wrote: >I attempted--somewhat more obliquely--to make this >point when Meredith first announced the dates of >Ectofest to the group, but was disappointed to learn >that the consensus on Ecto was that none of that >mattered, because it was for a good cause, and >besides, "Ecto" is just a word. This wholesale missing >of the point--though no doubt my fault--was so >discouraging to me that I simply bowed out of the >discussion and made no further attempt to engage the >debate. I think a lot of people understand the point Charley, they just don't agree with you. (I'm sure some agree too.) In fact, I think the original usage of the word Ectofest was traced back to parties in Europe (can't remember which European ectophiles were throwing them at the time). Those parties were actually anounced the same way as Meth's concert. hey, I'm throwing an ectofest party on this date, all of you are invited. No debate, no discussion. Granted, those are of a much smaller scale, but scale shouldn't matter for the concept. And they were pretty regional, though, just like this concert, open to all. Also, I think it's fair to say that the word Ecto does mean more than just the list. Ecto has become an adjective to describe a certain (vaguely defined) type of music, and it has even shown up in some publications and web sites not directly associated with ecto in just that way. I don't think it would be reaching to say that Ectofest was a festival of Ecto music, as well as a gathering of ectophiles. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it wasn't also related to the list, but it also clearly wasn't exclusively the list. While there were a lot of ectophiles in attendance, there were also a lot of (insert local hip radio station call letters here) listeners and various friends and family of associated people. >But now with the subsequent revelation that the event >was not a financial success (one participant in the >discussion estimated the loss at $1500 and was not, to >my knowledge, disputed), Ecto--once again, as a >community--has rallied to the rescue and is racking >its collective brains to discover a plan to bail out >its namesake festival. Needless to say, this would not >be the case if the event had not been labeled as an >Ecto event. Once again, I disagree with this. No one has suggested that everyone on ecto should contribute money to bail out the debts (or whatever) of the festival. All people have suggested is that festival related items may be purchased by anyone interested, and that's what the money would go to. The whole bootleg debate can, in part, be connected with a question of what the fan obligation is when they make or trade a bootleg. Dar Williams says that the fan obligation is to donate money to her charity organization. I personally feel that I get a huge amount of enjoyment out of the many bootlegs I own, and feel that I owe someone something for them. I would happily pay an artist for the privelage of owning a good boot, and usually try to buy more (new) albums by that artist and see more shows to help pay off my taped enjoyment. Any show, ecto or no, that offered a reasonable method for paying for that enjoyment, would receive that kind of respect from me (and probably many others). It seems perfectly reasonable that the offer of donations for tapes of ectofest recordings be made. Also, the show was dirt cheap. It only cost 10 bucks to get in. It costs $18 to see Happy by herself, and most people who see her out here plunk down $40 so they can see her at both shows when she plays the Tin Angel. When local businesses have repeatedly undercharged me for their services and then needed to raise money to keep going, I have never hesitated or felt bad giving them more money. Sorry, I'm rambling. But I think that a lot of the offerings that have gone on here are from people who feel that they have gotten, and will continue to get (thanks to boots that will be floating around regardless of the official line ), far more than their money's worth from the event. >This is all very heartwarming, of course, >and I'm tremendously impressed by Ecto's strength as a >community in taking up this challenge. But I feel that >the point should be made that this is a burden (noble >though it may be) that was handed to Ecto by the mere >fact that Meredith named her event Ectofest, a point >which further emphasizes the point that I was >attempting to make in the first place: that "Ecto" is >obviously _not_ "just a word"; it is, in this case, an >acknowledgment of responsibility for the event so >labeled, which responsibility should have been >acknowledged and reciprocated by Meredith before the >fact; her lack of respect for Ecto did not earn her >this act of charity on the list's part. Especially >since the assistance has been offered without the kind >of questions that I would certainly have asked: I find it rather confusing why when individuals suggest ways to attempt to raise money to offset the debts of Ectofest, that is accepted as being an offering from the whole list. And yet, when individuals put together a concert, that is viewed as the act of individuals and not the whole list. How is it that Meth and Chuck (and the many other ectophiles who worked behind the scenes) do not represent ecto as a whole, but Fog and me and the few others who have suggested means of assisting somehow do represent the list? >(And I apologize to Ecto for being so out of step with >the way so many of the rest of you think. There is a >greater and greater discrepancy between the way I view >the world and the way Greater Ecto views the world; >nowadays I delete probably 85% of the posts unread.) Well, there has always been that discrepancy Charley. (Seriously, that is not a slam or an insult.) Ecto is a less interesting place for you witholding your musical views and discoveries. Sometimes I agreed, often I didn't, but I always found your posts interesting. And we definitely need the experimental/edgy/harder/hip hoppin' side of things to balance out the steady stream of softer, quieter, and sometimes (for my taste) too poppy side of ecto. I, for one, have missed your contributions over the last half year or so. (and you still haven't sent me your address so i can send you that pile of tapes I've made for you!) neal np: Heaven Can Wait - Love Riot nr: Jude the Obscure - THomas Hardy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:07:10 -0700 From: WonderWorld Subject: Re: Aimee Mann > From: Sue Trowbridge > > On Sun, 26 Sep 1999, Emily Perkins wrote: > > > I've just moved from DC to San Francisco, and I've already seen some great > > concerts - Kristin Hersh twice last week, and then Merrie Amsterburg and > > Aimee Mann tonight. It's funny that I had to wait until I moved to the west > > coast to see Merrie Amsterburg live. > > Welcome Emily! I'm another East Coast -> West Coast transplant. I was also > at the Aimee Mann show tonight. Aimee was incredible! Unfortunately, I > can't really offer a judgment on Merrie, since the audience was talking so > loudly during her set of rather quiet acoustic music...grr... > > For some strange reason, Aimee only brought 100 copies of her wonderful EP > to sell at the show. They were all gone in a flash and two of my friends > who wanted to buy them, couldn't. There were at least 450 people in the > sold-out, VERY VERY crowded club. I'll bet she could have sold at least a > couple hundred more if she'd had 'em! Hi, ectophiles- Copies of Aimee Mann's limited edition 7-song EP, the advance to her new album Bachelor No. 2 (or the last remains of the dodo) should still be available from Superego Records, 1508 Capistrano Avenue, Glendale, Ca. 91208 for $10.00 each plus $3.20 shipping (shipping covers up to 20 copies of the EP.) Before sending a money order made out to "Whatever" to the above address, please do confirm with Michael Hausman (manninfo@aol.com) that copies of the EP are still available. I seem to remember reading on the aimee mann list that only about 2,500 were made (mannlist@lists.cc.utexas.edu). The 7-song EP ends with a 1-minute 20 second , bittersweet, beautiful tribute to the late Jeff Buckley: Here are the lyrics to 'Just Like Anyone': So maybe I wasn't that good a friend But you were one of us And I will wonder just like anyone If there was something else I could have done So maybe it's true that your cry for help was also very faint but still I heard and knew something was wrong just nothing you could put your finger on and I will wonder just like anyone just like anyone The official release date for B. No. 2 will coincide with the release on November 26th of the soundtrack for the movie "Magnolia," which will be in theatres on December 25th. Aimee has six or seven songs on the soundtrack, including at least two new ones. The movie, with Tom Cruise in a "minor role" should position Aimee well to capture an oscar nomination! What is there to compete with her singing on other soundtracks this year? Aimee should be appearing in the Seattle and Portland areas in December or next January. When dates are firmed up the information will be available at aimee's official web site: www.aimeemann.com. Check out the new, improved site! Dave Nelson Wonderworld Books-Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:42:12 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: LoLo Records Hi, folks: The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . Meanwhile hear are a couple excerpts of interest to Happy Rhodes fans. On our LoLo Records page we have a new release from Hansford Rowe - No Other - Ten sumptious songs that will singe your soul! The American-born bassist, better known as "Hanny" to his friends, made his debut on the New York club scene where he met drummer Pierre Moerlen with whom Hansford reformed the award winning jazz rock group, Gong. As interest in the band grew exponentially, so did opportunities to collaborate with the likes of Mike Oldfield, Allan Holdsworth, Bireli Lagrene and LaMonte Young. He regularly cultivates a bunch of musical projects with fellow ex-Gonger, guitarist Bon Lozaga, under the auspices of their company, LoLo Records (including work with artists such as Gary Husband, David Torn, and David Fiuczynski). Hansford is finally putting out his first solo album - No Other - that features such guests as Happy Rhodes, Bon Lozaga, David Fiucynski, Bob Muller and more! You can hear Happy on the soundbite I selected for this album. Also on our LoLo Records page you'll find the latest tour dates for Bon and Project Lo: BON Bon Lozaga - guitar Hansford Rowe - bass Vic Stevens - drums September 27 - Cincinnati, OH... Buzz Coffee Shop (513) 221-3472 September 28 - Louisville, KY... Artswatch Gallery (502)-893-9661 September 29 - Columbus, OH... TBA September 30 - Phila., PA…Upstairs At Nicks (215)-928-0665 w/ Percy Jones October 1 - Wheaton, MD... Phantasmagoria (301) 949-8886 w/ Percy Jones Project Lo - featuring Happy Rhodes November 11 Chicago, IL - Martyrs Club 12 Detroit, MI (Mt. Clemens) - JD's Macomb Theater 13 Harrisburg, PA (New Cumberland) - The Wire 18 D.C. (Wheaton) - Phantasmagoria 19 Phila., PA - Tin Angel (2 shows) 20 Albany, NY - Valentines Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop@artist-shop.com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V5 #322 **************************