From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V5 #165 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, May 10 1999 Volume 05 : Number 165 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] Re: purple [Joseph Zitt ] AIDS songs: ["Drew Harrington" ] Michael Franti spoken word shows in SF ["Drew Harrington" ] Re: Where do you buy your CD's? [Philip David Morgan ] Re: Where do you buy your CD's? [Joseph Zitt ] RIAA vs "piracy" [Michael Curry ] The Record Industry's future, was: RIAA vs "piracy" [Bill Adler ] belle oiseau [joann.whetsell@oberlin.edu (JoAnn Whetsell)] Cryptonomicon (was Re: Kate B. song) [Michael Curry ] Re: Where do you buy your CD's? [Billi Mazur ] Re: Cryptonomicon (was Re: Kate B. song) [Jeffrey Burka ] Gillian Welch [neal copperman ] deborah bartley [neal copperman ] Susan Court live [Neile Graham ] Re: purple [Billi Mazur ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 03:00:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ******************** Brian Gregory (no Email address) ********************* *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Brian Gregory Thu May 09 1963 Eclectic Patrick Varker Wed May 12 1954 Torius Steve Fagg Tue May 13 1958 Nightwol Karel Zuiderveld Fri May 13 1960 Stier Michael Colford Wed May 16 1962 Taurus Christopher Boek Tue May 19 1970 Taurus Yngve Hauge Fri May 21 1971 Gemini Lisa Laane Tue May 22 1973 Gemini Jewel Kilcher Thu May 23 1974 The Gem Chandra Sriram Thu May 27 1971 Gemini Urs Stafford Thu May 31 1973 Give Way Perttu Yli-Krekola Thu June 02 1966 Kaksoset Alex Gibbs Thu June 08 1967 Betelgeuse Gleb Zverev Tue June 09 1964 Gemini - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 07:06:03 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: purple On Sat, May 08, 1999 at 11:32:10PM -0400, JoAnn Whetsell wrote: > different from their movie versions) and better (of course. all books are > better than their movie versions. with the exception of the bridges of > madison county, which was a poor book but a beautiful movie). It's a pretty good rule of thumb, but there are exceptions: off the top of my head, I thought Dune, Yentl, and Dr. Strangelove were better than the books from which they were made. (Hmm... trying to think of examples reminds me how few movies I get around to seeing, how little fiction I read, and how few of the movies that I see were derived from books...) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 02:25:01 -0700 From: "Drew Harrington" Subject: AIDS songs: Don't know if I missed mention of these songs with AIDS subject matter: Hush - Paula Cole Positive - Spearhead The first time I saw Paula live she introduced Hush by saying it was about and for a friend of hers who had AIDS. She said she didn't know how to deal with it and so she wrote Hush to help her understand her own feelings. After hearing her explain it the performance of the song was incredibly powerful. I think half the audience damp eyed. Drew ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 02:24:56 -0700 From: "Drew Harrington" Subject: Michael Franti spoken word shows in SF From a flier handed out at this evening's Spearhead show at the Fillmore: Wednesday May 12th - Sunday May 16th 5 Nights Only - BE THERE! In the house for a very intimate evening featuring the performance and live recording of Michael Franti's spoken word album. This is a *free* event!!! Yes you heard corrently, it costs nothing to get in, however seating is *very* *limited*. A limited number of tickets will be given out free at the venue starting at 6pm the day of the show up 'til the time of performance. Because the space is so cozy if you don't have a ticket you may not get in. The BAOBAB is the place. Located in the heart of the Mission in S.F. at 3388 19th street between Mission and Capp. Dinner is available from 6pm-10pm. A full bar is open 'til 2am. Performance kicks off at 11pm. 415.643.3558 All performances will be recorded and video taped and by attending the event you agree to have any sound you might make and or your likeness used on the record or video. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 08:45:28 -0400 From: Cat Subject: Re: Where do you buy your CD's? Bull Moose Records, a local chain, is where I buy most of the used CDs I purchase. Rockinworld (http://www.rockinworld.com) is an excellent source for imported CDs. But we rarely buy CDs as I get most of them as review copies as I edit/publish, Folk Tales, an online arts magazine (http://www.kinrowan.com) That does mean I hear a whole lot of dreck on search of the handful of truly great CDs that are released each year. NP -- Tanteeka, A New Tradition ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 14:24:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Philip David Morgan Subject: Re: Where do you buy your CD's? Hello, Kay: > So where do you folks shop, excluding online dealers and major chains? From Long Island(New York)...there are a handful of indie CD stores, but two come to mind... Soundtrax, Ltd. (New York Ave./Route 110, downtown Huntington) is a small walk away from the InterMedia Art Center on one side and a huge municipal parking field on the other. Basically a well-rounded selection of major catagories, inide and major. They have a medium-sized used CD section (in comparison to what follows). For a while they willingly stocked boots, but now the most illicit fare seems to DJ-mixed cassettes and burnt CDRs (which themselves can't hold much of a candle to the Bollywood/bhangra DJ comps I run into elsewhere on Long Island). Soundtrax is there for local artistes (not everyone, but a good sampling), and they've just started selling DVDs. Empire Discs (Stewart Ave., Garden City) is a little tricky to get to (the more you understand Long Island road mentalities, the better), but is pretty much used CD heaven. Strongest on rock, jazz, and R&B, but they do have other catagories. They will actually let you hear a disc before you buy it (really!). Brand-new local acts' product, too. No used DVDs - yet. - -- Strange note no. 1: I don't normally shop these two unless I near either one or plan to be there. Lately, I tend to hit ethnic shops (we now have a sizeable Hindu/Pakastani population, especially in Nassau County) for something really off-beat. If I'm in Manhattan, I'll try to steal away to Chinatown for some goodies (including blank MDs - but the VCD/Video CD and DVD selection there is starting to make me drool). Strange note no. 2: I've noted that Borders and some other chains no longer offer the _Long Island Voice_ (published by the _Village Voice_ people, and very much a presence here). When I went to claim a free copy of their recent freebie CD (a local music comp of anti-love songs, called _"Jilted"_), I ended up going to Empire Discs. Sam Goody (Musicland) no longer sponsors the _VOICE_ discs. Philip David 5/9/1999 - -- http://dianewolkstein.com/ (due for major updates and overhaul - stay tuned). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 19:37:49 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Where do you buy your CD's? On Sun, May 09, 1999 at 02:24:11PM -0400, Philip David Morgan wrote: > Hello, Kay: > > > So where do you folks shop, excluding online dealers and major chains? In DC, well, I pretty much don't. Almost all the CDs I've gotten of late have been online or at Borders. THere's some OK shopping in Adams Morgan; I don't get there much, but Jeff, who lives near there, can catalog those. Otherwise, CDwise, DC's a dead zone. But I've binged in NYC, at eBay, and from the online ordering at Anomalous, Twisted Village, Cadence, and others. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 15:57:28 -0400 From: Michael Curry Subject: RIAA vs "piracy" There's a pretty cool article by Jaron Lanier on the New York Times web site about why the RIAA is so big on combatting "piracy" on the internet. http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/05/biztech/articles/09internet-music.html The site requires registration, but you can just enter cypherpunk for both your username and password if you'd rather not register. Mike np: Beth Orton -- Central Reservation nr: Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson [nobody rambles like Neal] | Michael Curry / mcurry@io.com / mcurry@smoe.org | | http://www.io.com/~mcurry | | "Am I bitter? Do I sound bitter?" -- Veda Hille | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 16:34:11 -0400 From: Bill Adler Subject: The Record Industry's future, was: RIAA vs "piracy" The NY Times Arts and Leisure section today (Sunday) has a front page story why musicians try to break away from the major labels, and how hard it it. The article's entitled, "A Chance to Break the Pop Stranglehold." There's some interesting insight into music company contracts. As a sidebar in the article puts it, "The record industry has reached a moment of decision. In the next few years, artists may break the corporate grip that crimps their creativity. Or not." - --Bill n.p. Rachael Sage's Smashing the Serene At 03:57 PM 5/9/99 -0400, you wrote: > > There's a pretty cool article by Jaron Lanier on the New York Times web >site about why the RIAA is so big on combatting "piracy" on the internet. > > >http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/05/biztech/articles/09internet-music. >html > > The site requires registration, but you can just enter cypherpunk >for both your username and password if you'd rather not register. > > >Mike Bill Adler Adler & Robin Books Literary Agency 3000 Connecticut Ave., N.W. Washington, DC 20008 202-986-9275 Fax: 202-986-9485 badler@adlerbooks.com backup email: badler@csi.com http://www.adlerbooks.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 18:09:41 -0500 From: Mark Lowry Subject: Re: Kate B. song (was: songs about AIDS) Michael Colford wrote: > I just had to respond to this because "Watching You Without Me" (tiny > title correction) is my favorite Kate Bush song, and hence definitely in > my top 10 favorite songs. I'm pleased to see it ranked so highly by > someone else! Oh my god, I hate it when that kind of thing happens ... of course I know it's "Watching You Watching Me" Can I still keep my Ecto license? Mark np Sparklehorse _Vivadixiesubmarinetransmissionplot_ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 21:17:58 -0400 From: Jeffrey Burka Subject: Re: Kate B. song (was: songs about AIDS) Mark Lowry sez: > Oh my god, I hate it when that kind of thing happens ... of course I > know it's "Watching You Watching Me" Can I still keep my Ecto license? Uh, no, it's _still_ "Watching You Without Me." Keep trying! jeff np: _Birds of Passage_, Bel Canto (couldn't get it out of my head while I was walking around yesterday, so I thought I'd pop it in) nr: _Cryptonomicon_, Neal Stephenson (okay, so he rambles...he can drag me along just about anywhere and I'll be happy. 1/4 of the way through, and I love it...) - -- |Jeffrey C. Burka|||http://www.cqi.com/~jburka ||||"I've got time to rest / | ||||||||||||| And I've got a clear, able mind that sees my life going fine. | | 'Cause everything I need is right here in my hands..." --Melissa Ferrick | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 21:40:54 -0400 (EDT) From: joann.whetsell@oberlin.edu (JoAnn Whetsell) Subject: belle oiseau That reminds me. Who was the person who said they could sell me an extra copy of Birds of Passage? I'd like to get it. E-mail me privately please. JoAnn np: Susana Baca This self-titled album is GORGEOUS. reaches into the culture of black Peruvians. Highly recommended. >jeff wrote: >np: _Birds of Passage_, Bel Canto (couldn't get it out of my head >while I was walking around yesterday, so I thought I'd pop it in) > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 22:46:39 -0400 From: Michael Curry Subject: Cryptonomicon (was Re: Kate B. song) At 09:17 PM 5/9/99 -0400, Jeffrey Burka wrote: > >nr: _Cryptonomicon_, Neal Stephenson (okay, so he rambles...he can >drag me along just about anywhere and I'll be happy. 1/4 of the way >through, and I love it...) > I wasn't trying to imply that the rambling was a bad thing... when i said "Nobody rambles like Neal Stephenson" I meant it as a compliment. *grin* Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 20:16:58 -0700 From: Billi Mazur Subject: Re: Where do you buy your CD's? San Francisco Bay Area: Compact Disc Warehouse 470 E El Camino Real Sunnyvale, CA 94087 (408) 730-0991 Compact Disc Warehouse 6213 Jarvis Ave. Newark, CA 94560 (510) 796-1013 These are my favorite CD stores in the Bay Area. They have an excellent selection of new and used CDs in all musical genres. They have a friendly, knowledgeable and helpful staff. One of the reasons I like these stores so much is that they have a very comprehensive Progressive Rock section in both stores, especially the Sunnyvale store. The Sunnyvale store is the main location of the two and has a larger selection than the Newark store. Rasputin's Records 2350 Telegraph Ave. Berkeley, CA 94704 (510) 848-9004 Rasputin's Records 17715 Hesperian Blvd.. San Lorenzo, CA 94580 (510) 276-8893 Their main location is south of the UC Berkeley campus. Very good new and used CD selection. Good used vinyl LP section. Telegraph Ave. is always fun and Rasputin's is near another great new and used CD/record store, Amoeba. Their other East Bay location is about 15 miles southwest of their Berkeley store (off of Highway 880). The only drawback of both stores, from my perspective, is that their staff can be unfriendly and, at times, even arrogant and condescending. Amoeba Music 2455 Telegraph Ave. (510) 549-1125 Berkeley, CA Funky atmosphere. A little further down Telegraph Ave. away from the UC campus. Great selection of new and used CDs. Definitely the best source of used rock LPs in the area. Amoeba has reasonable prices and a good selection. Several good bookstores along the way as well. Streetlight Records 2350 Market St. San Francisco, CA (415) 282-8000) Streetlight Records 3979 24th Street San Francisco, CA (415) 282-3550 A very good selection of new and used CDs and other formats (vinyl & tapes). There are actually three Streetlight locations. There is one in San Jose as well on Bascom Ave. While both S.F. locations are good, the Market St. location is the best. Streetlight carries a good deal of hard to find new imports, promo only items and rare old stuff as well. Their staff is fairly friendly and knowledgeable. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 23:44:17 -0400 From: Jeffrey Burka Subject: Re: Cryptonomicon (was Re: Kate B. song) Mike sez: > I wasn't trying to imply that the rambling was a bad thing... > when i said "Nobody rambles like Neal Stephenson" I meant it as a > compliment. *grin* Actually, I didn't really read it as a complaint. I just responded to it that way. ;-) Incidentally, there doesn't appear to be an epiphyte.com, but there _is_ an eruditorum.org, complete with a cyphered text to be decoded. Send your responses to...yup, root@eruditorum.org jeff - -- |Jeffrey C. Burka|||http://www.cqi.com/~jburka ||||"I've got time to rest / | ||||||||||||| And I've got a clear, able mind that sees my life going fine. | | 'Cause everything I need is right here in my hands..." --Melissa Ferrick | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 22:04:18 -0600 From: neal copperman Subject: Gillian Welch And while I'm at it, this was the last ecto show I saw and never got around to saying anything about. (Mark, thanks for being prompter than I in your Laurie Anderson review!) I saw Gillian and David Rawlings at the Paramount in Santa Fe last month. I have her first album, which I think is fine, but it hasn't really struck me that much. However, I really liked how all the songs sounded live. It was just her and David, both playing guitars, and the songs were very rich and powerful. David is a stellar guitar player, and his contributions to the songs fleshed them out wonderfully. They played pretty much all of the new album, which I picked up that night (and still haven't listened to), plus a lot of cover songs that I probably can't remember anymore. Um, Neil Young's Albuquerque was one. They also played a song called Tennessee Stud, which I know from Johnny Cash's American Recordings. Gillian seems to like to sing in a very slow, drawn out way, and that was particularly highlighted in this song. She does it at about half the tempo of Johnny. His version has an edgy bluster to it (you know, more macho), while her's had a quiet mournfulness. Quiet mournfulness is a pretty good description of a lot of her music. I was particularly impressed with the new song My Morphine, which contained the slowest, most depressing, yodeling I've ever heard. One thing that really made this show as the dry humour of both performers. Their between song comments were very understated (surprise, surprise), but also wickedly funny. If her music seems somewhat interesting to you, I'd recommend the show, as it really comes to life live. And if you haven't heard it, it's a very traditional, country blues kind of thing. Sorta like Lucinda Williams (crossed with Cordelia's Dad maybe. Now that I've finally seen them, I feel like I'm hearing their sound all over the place.) neal np: Joe and Sue's Tune-splosian '98 (track: Debt - Jules Verdone) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 21:54:52 -0600 From: neal copperman Subject: deborah bartley Seems I'm not seeing a lot of ectophilic shows lately, and doing a worse job than usual in mentioning the few that I am. So I figure I better get down to this one before it slips behind me too. I just got back from seeing deborah bartley in a coffeeshop down by the university. She's from LA but has recently moved to Seattle. Here's a snippet from the paper that drew me to the show: "On [her debut album], her shimmering voice spins lyrics in multicolored layers that alternately peel from and fuse to melodies that seem to live lives of thier own, almost independently from the complex, yet perfectly fitted backdrops she coaxes from her acoustic guitar. She's not just singing, she's exclaiming the truth - with the intensity of a prophet near the end of her earthly journey. The same fires that propelled Ani DiFranco out of hte owrld of dreams and into a world where audiences fall over themselvees to catch her altest phrase burns inside Bartley. her no-nonsense approach and cache of finely crafted songs make her the latest folk savior to watch." Pretty heady praise, and not really what I saw, though what I saw was promising enough to get me to buy her album. It's called These Small Rooms, and the paper says it's on Egg Records, though I couldn't find anything to indicate that on the album. Needless to say, I haven't listened to it, since I've been home all of 10 minutes. She has a few backup musicians on the album, but was playing solo with guitar tonight. Perhaps I was distracted by the ani difranco reference, so that I couldn't place who she really sounded like for most of the set. There were times where she did sound strikingly like ani, but the ani of her slower songs, not the wild manic ani, and not the really edgy guitar ani. But sometimes the phrasing and tone of Deborah's voice hit that slow ani thing perfectly. Sometimes I heard a touch of (old) Suzanne Vega, a bit of Dar Williams, and once I thought of Luka Bloom (for the first time in about 7 years). Mostly, I was thinking she sounded a lot like someone I knew but didn't listen to much. Maybe Paula Cole? Then, about 90% of the way through her set, it struck me. She sounds lots like Melissa Ferrick. Once again, less edgy and angular, but something in the sound of her voice was very reminiscent of MF's. Deborah's voice is richer and her songs were more melodic, but less catchy. She didn't bowl me over, like MF did the first time I saw her in a similar environment, but I thought she had some really strong material and showed a lot of promise. If anyone is interested, here is the rest of her Spring Thing '99 tour (There are phone numbers with all these places, but I'm not going to type them in. If you need one, I'll be happy to send it to you): 5/11: Mogollon Brewery, Flagstaff AZ 5/13: Crooked Bar, LA 5/14: Sacred Grounds, San Pedro, CA 5/16: Boomerang, SF 5/18: Hotel Utah, SF 5/19: Duffy's, Chico CA 5/20: Evo's, Ashland OR 5/22: 2:00 KBVR, Corvallis OR 5/22: Uncle Hungry's, Corvallis OR 5/23: Snake and Weasel, Portland 5/24: Hopvine Pub, Seattle Neal np: Joe and Sue's Tune-splosion '98 (Singing in my Sleep - Semisonic) nr: Midwives - Chris Bohjalian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 22:18:38 -0700 From: Neile Graham Subject: Susan Court live Tamar, Jim, and I headed down to the quiet Sunday evening Pike Place Market (what! No trouble parking???) to Kells Pub to hear Susan Court come out to play for the first time in way too long--this was the first time we've seen Susan live in, what, 18 months? Two years? Since well before last summer's release of _High Relief_ in any case. Anyway, she really burned up her new keyboard--the piano basis of the songs was front and center, and it was impressive. This is the first time I've heard her do these arrangements of the songs and they were knockouts, and we also got to hear about 4 new, wonderful songs. Susan's piano work is strong enough that I didn't miss her wonderful studio backup musicians. My only complaint was I would have liked her voice to be a snick higher in the mix. Great show, and the pub crowd was actually fairly quiet and I know a lot of people were there to see Susan. I hope this is the start of many more Seattle performances--the next one for Seattle audiences is in August, but she's playing Tacoma June 19th. Before then, though, she's going to California: Sherman Oaks, May 14th, 8 pm, Exile Books & Music Santa Barbara, May 15th, 4 pm, Borders Books & Music Ventura CA, May 15th 8 pm, Garden Village Cafe Don't miss her if she's anywhere near you. - --Neile - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 22:28:25 -0700 From: Billi Mazur Subject: Re: purple Joseph Zitt wrote: > On Sat, May 08, 1999 at 11:32:10PM -0400, JoAnn Whetsell wrote: > > > different from their movie versions) and better (of course. all books are > > better than their movie versions. with the exception of the bridges of > > madison county, which was a poor book but a beautiful movie). > > It's a pretty good rule of thumb, but there are exceptions: off the > top of my head, I thought Dune, Yentl, and Dr. Strangelove > were better than the books from > which they were made. (Hmm... trying to think of examples reminds me > how few movies I get around to seeing, how little fiction I read, and > how few of the movies that I see were derived from books...) Joseph, I always really enjoy your posts and nearly always agree with what you have to say. However, here is one time that I must differ with your opinion. I do not agree that the film version of Dune is better than the book. Frank Herbert is one of my favorite authors and Dune is one of my all time favorite books. Although I am a David Lynch fan (Eraserhead, The Elephant Man, Twin Peaks, Blue Velvet, Twin Peaks: Firewalk With Me are all very good and some of my favorites), I feel that he didn't do justice with the film version of Dune. It is true that parts of the film are visually stunning and well realized. However Frank Herbert's writing, especially in Dune and throughout the Dune Chronicles, has so many intricacies, nuances and intrigues that it would be and was very difficult to appropriately capture it on film. Another thing that I don't like about the movie was that David Lynch puts his very bizarre twist on things, as he usually does in his movies. He made Baron Harkonnan into a weak and dementedly twisted character. In the book he is a very complex, intelligently sinister and calculating individual. In addition, where in the book was there any mention of "heart plugs" or "weirding modules"? Lynch added many unnecessary and bizarre elements to the film that detracted from telling the story and doing justice to the book, IMHO. Another example of a film by one of my favorite directors that doesn't live up to the book for me is Steven King's The Shining. Stanley Kubrick is definitely one of my favorite directors. Some of his films are among my all time favorites (Dr. Stranglove, Spartacus, A Clockwork Orange, Barry Lyndon, Full Metal Jacket). However, I feel like he took too many liberties with The Shining. Also, Jack Nicholson's one dimensional portrayal of Jack Torrance is quite annoying to me. Steven King portrays Jack Torrance as a very complex, multifaceted man that is desperately battling his inner demons. He is straddling the line between good and evil. He may go either way depending on the circumstances. He ends up slowly gravitating toward evil once he comes under the influence of spirits in and of the Overlook Hotel. He is slowly and insidiously seduced by the evil that eventually overtakes him and drives him to REDRUM. Jack Nicholson plays him as Jack Nicholson not as Jack Torrance. He starts out loony and by the end of the movie is "full tilt boogie" loony. Another thing is that the ending of the movie is completely different and unfulfilling compared to the book. Well anyway, enough of my ranting for now. Take care, Bill M. (from Billi's side of the computer. I was lazy and didn't change the Mail Preferences section before writing this message) n.p. Pulsar _The Strands of the Future_ ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V5 #165 **************************