From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V5 #44 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Sunday, February 7 1999 Volume 05 : Number 044 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Question from Happy [Bill Mazur ] Re: Tori Tonight! [Bill Mazur ] RE: Question from Happy ["Foghorn J Fornorn" ] DIVX = Greed (was: Mini-disc question(s)) ["Drew Harrington" ] Re: DIVX = Greed [Greg Dunn ] Re: DIVX = Greed....and the world we live in [FAMarcus@aol.com] Re: DIVX = Greed [kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white)] Re: DIVX = Greed....and the world we live in [kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry] Sarah Mc ... [kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white)] Jonatha Brooke in Rolling Stone! [Songbird22@aol.com] Re: DIVX = Greed....and the world we live in [Dave Williamson ] Re: DIVX = Greed....and the world we live in [Jeffrey Burka ] Re: DIVX = Greed....and the world we live in [Jeffrey Burka ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 22:54:37 -0800 From: Bill Mazur Subject: Re: Question from Happy Mike, I totally agree with the points that you make below! Happy, I would absolutely love to see you open for Peter Gabriel. Plus, wouldn't a duet on "Don't Give Up" and/or "Blood of Eden" be wonderful! :-) I completely agree that opening for Yes would be a great choice and I would think that it might be a thrill for you to open for some of your heroes. I really think that opening for Marillion would be excellent. Both you and Marillion have a smaller following than Yes or Peter Gabriel. However, you both have an extremely loyal fan base. You both write music that has progressive and pop elements. Marillion has a much more balanced following of both male and female than some of the other artists mentioned. To me this would be a thrilling double bill! I know that Marillion has lost money in the past touring the U.S. and Canada. The extra audience draw that the Ectophiles would bring to the shows might be appealing to them. Plus, I'm sure that you would go over really well with a Marillion audience. FYI, a friend of mine that knew Steve Rothery fairly well told me that he is a wonderfully kind man. Happy, you are such an emotional and expressive singer. Steve Hogarth is an incredibly charismatic singer and performer. As much as I love Fish as a lyricist and performer, I really think that H is a much stronger singer and front man. I don't believe that opening for Fish would work as well for you. I'm not certain if his audience would warm up to you. Jethro Tull is an interesting and viable choice. However, I believe that King Crimson tends to draw a more critical, and at times overly opinionated, prog crowd. The Crimson crowd may not be as open and tolerant. I would like to add another suggestion to the mix, your Samson label mates CPR. I think that this would be a satisfying double bill. I have another duet suggestion, you and Cros on "Wooden Ships". I have just one more suggestion. How about opening for Annie Lennox? You are the best and I serenade your genius! Bill > I think any of the surviving "progressive rock" acts would be good > candidates. The audiences are predominantly male, the artists are generally > secure enough to accommodate a strong opening act, and the audience would no > doubt be receptive to a Happy Rhodes show. Specifically: > > - Yes, obviously, in whatever incarnation they may tour as these days; > - Peter Gabriel, as Vickie mentioned; > - Emerson Lake and Palmer could have been a good choice but they've > disbanded on Greg Lake's departure, however rumor has it that Keith Emerson > has some very interesting collaboration in the works. Don't know if that > will include a road show. Unfortunately, unless heavily hyped by the music > press this effort obviously wouldn't have the name recognition of an ELP, so > the headline draw would be sharply reduced. > - King Crimson still tours although it appears difficult to schedule the > full band anymore, hence the substitution of various ProjeKct lineups. Those > too suffer dimished recognition. > - Marillion or Fish, although we're obviously getting into diminishing > returns on headliner recognition here. > - Jethro Tull is probably due for another tour, although I'm not sure about > their draw potential these days. > - Steely Dan is rumored to have a new album coming out and they've had > successful tours in recent years. > > Mike (aka Fog) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 22:56:31 -0800 From: Bill Mazur Subject: Re: Tori Tonight! Thanks Kerry! It will be on here in the SFBA, CA in 5 minutes. I must go now! kerry white wrote: > > Hi, PBS Sessions: whole hour with Tori Amos. bye, > > KrW > It was the least I could do! > And never let it be said that I didn't do the least I could do. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 04:19:13 -0500 From: "Foghorn J Fornorn" Subject: RE: Question from Happy Bill, thanks for the 'seconding' of my choices. Please allow me to offer some further opinions. Sort of an aside, but your points about headliner fan acceptance is well taken. I remember going to see Marillion as an opening act for Rush during M's Misplaced Childhood tour. I would have thought a Rush crowd would have been reasonably impressed with Marillion but to my surprise the crowd effectively booed them off the stage. Marillion raced thru the M.C. album and cleared out ASAP. The fans were like, Rush and only Rush will do. It was sad. I convinced a friend to go with me and it was a piss poor experience. I was proud to walk out after Rush's opening number. That was in NYC. Marillion does really well in certain markets, and its hard to predict what those markets will be. Previously I had seen them at The Chance in Poughkeepsie NY for a butt kicking show. It was like the European shows - crowd singing along, the whole bit. But in the context of opening for Rush in the big apple, they were a complete and abject failure. Fortunately, they came back to The Chance for the Clutching at Straws tour, and I made sure the same friend went to that. We were not disappointed. The show was broadcast on the local radio station and even the DJs there commented that the crowd repartee was comparable if not better than a U2 show. Anyway, yes, its tough for Marillion to tour the states these days for financial reasons. Fish is supposed to have a new album out soon and will probably have similar problems, although since he's not quite as prolific as the old band a US Fish tour might have a better chance. It will probably be short and only a few major cities, but he'll draw a Marillion crowd and they are indeed fiercely loyal. And I think 90% or better would be wowed by Happy if she found her way to open for him. Wouldn't it be great to see a Happy show a few years in the future where the whole crowd sings along with her? Regarding King Crimson: You are correct when you say the Crim crowd is a critical one, but if you follow the news from that camp you might develop a more favorable impression. Robert Fripp is now the CEO (in his words: venal leader) of Discipline Global Mobile, "a small and independent record company". Besides promoting all things new Crim (which includes unreleased old live Crim, like the Epitaph set from the 1969 band) they are soliciting new talent. An extremely important part of their new talent's cadre is live performance. RF's opinion is that without that, music is your hobby - keep it that way. So the deep Crim crowd is being exposed to and encouraged to buy a variety of new and unknown artists. If Happy's deal with Samson eventually goes sour, my suggestion would be to contact DGM. They may not have the money to make her a big star, but I think they'd be very interested in making sure her music is made available to all who want it. Crim should tour soon, given that there is a boxed set of old live recordings called "Cirkus" due this month, but as mentioned in my earlier post the current double trio configuration of the band is hard to schedule. I think the Crim crowds are mellower and more open than those in the past, because Fripp's DGM venture. While I loath labeling, it is sometimes necessary in conversation to describe an artist. If pressed by the uninitiated, I will call Happy's music progressive rock. Given her influences, I don't think she'd disagree too strongly. Happy opening for what I would call the undisputed "King" of progressive rock? I'd skip my mother's funeral to see it. Re: CPR: Good idea, except that other than the fact that I'm in tune with Samson thru being a Happy fan, I did not know anything about them. How well known is this new collaboration? Re: Annie Lennox: Another good idea, although the "opening act envy" Vickie mentioned about Tori could apply here. Unfortunately, I have the feeling that most female headliners would be reticent about a Happy Rhodes opening for them. The possibility of being upstaged at their own show is very real... 'nuff said. Mike (aka Fog) Q: How would you describe King Crimson, its music, philosophy, history, business aims, hopes for the future, job description, and your role in it? A (Robert Fripp): We are, and I am, prog-rock pond scum. Our hopes for the future are to burn you out. (from Epitaph liner notes - adopted from an L.A. magazine review of the band's 1995 live shows) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:06:25 -0800 From: "Drew Harrington" Subject: DIVX = Greed (was: Mini-disc question(s)) > since Best Buy and Circuit City carry both, > with Best Buy having the more serious > committment to MD. But please consider not shopping at Circuit City (or any other organization) who is pushing DIVX. Drew ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:23:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Donald G. Keller" Subject: The Dog & Pony Show It's been more than 2 years since the last time I saw Kittywinder (October 1, 1996 it says here in my show log, not that I've forgotten it); over a span of nearly two years before that (back to February 10, 1995) I'd seen them a baker's dozen times, and they'd become one of my favorite New York bands. When I found out two months after that last show that they were no more, it broke my heart. I've kept in sporadic touch with Chris Lee and Stephanie Giorgio, the two guitar players (we have similar musical tastes and often turn up at the same shows), and I've waited patiently for them to go through the process of retooling and forming a new band. And now the time has finally come. A few months ago they gave me a copy of their demo tape for the new band--which has gone through several names--containing four new songs, all very good and unsurprising in the best possible way: that is, they sounded like the next Kittywinder album that never happened. The core of Kittywinder's sound was always Chris and Stephanie's guitar parts, which had (still have) something of that Sleater-Kinney strategy of two different riffs played to the same rhythm, although Chris & Stephanie more often achieve genuine counterpoint: even, at times, a sense of both playing commenting riffs (obbligato, as it were) to a single basic guitar part that isn't there at all. Their most salient influences are Scrawl and Throwing Muses, with a bit of Tsunami thrown in, i.e. female-led "indie" rock with sour-sweet vocals and buzzing dissonances from the guitar parts. Perhaps even a slight resemblance to the less pop-y songs on the Bangles' =All Over the Place=. If you make the distinction, I guess they're rock rather than pop, but that doesn't mean they'll never write a song with a pretty chorus and a hook. So I got this postcard in the mail announcing a set by The Dog and Pony Show, whom I'd actually seen listed and wondered why it sounded a hair familiar, but I was still a bit mystified; I'm on a lot of bands' mailing lists at this point and it could have been any number of people. It wasn't until I looked at the fine print that I realized it was Chris & Stephanie's new band. That wasn't the name they had told me the last I'd heard from them. It's one thing to wait for something you fear might never happen; it's harder to wait for something you know is going to happen, and when, but it's not time yet; hardest of all to wait for something that's going to happen any minute. I was impatient for the show for the whole week leading up to it, and in the interval before their set I was so antsy I couldn't stand still, but kept walking from the edge of the stage at the back of Mercury Lounge all the way through the crowded bar area to the front door, and back again. It wasn't until the band was actually setting up that I was able to settle in at my usual spot leaning on the stage monitors. Then the band kicked into the first song, and two years went away in an instant. "Red Light," also the first track on the demo, starts with a driving eighth-note repeated groove (a little like "Get Back" only faster, or "Please Please Me" only minor), over which Stephanie plays a little lick with a prominent tritone and harmonic. The verse fractures into layered guitar-guitar-bass arpeggios contradicting one another, under strident one-note vocals. The next part is calmer, but builds itself through a transition passage to a dramatic up&down riff under which the bass picks up the running eighths to make the transition to the opening texture again (which ends the song). It's a song with several challenging parts and sections and sudden shifts, and the whole band hit every mark on the dime. A very exhilarating start. Next was "Alps," a new song which was even a little darker and more dissonant, with really interesting arpeggios from Stephanie. One of the first things I ever wrote about her was something to the effect that her pick hand was defter than her fretting hand; that hasn't been true for a long time. It was one of the pleasures of watching Kittywinder over an extended period to see her guitar playing get better and better. And she's taken another big jump since last I saw her play: her guitar parts have gotten quite complicated, the part-chords she's picking moving all around the fretboard. Her arpeggios were killing me the whole set, in "Alps" as much as in any of the songs. Chris as usual was the solid complement, her style being a more usual chords/riffs/lead lines that anchored the middle of the sound. I was sorry that she had chosen not to sing second vocals (something she did more often than not in Kittywinder--in fact she had some lead vocals) leaving that to the keyboard player. The bass player in the band is Stuart Hill, who also plays with Shudder to Think (whose busy schedule impacts The Dog and Pony Show); he's an excellent, very striking player whose lines occasionally become appropriately prominent. The keyboardist and drummer are named Jefferson Friedman and Jason Linn, but I'm not sure which is which; the drummer reportedly played with the fine band Idaho at one time, but not on their CDs I have. I confess I hardly noticed him the whole set; but I often pay little attention to drummers, and like a sports official he should take it as a compliment. The keyboardist is a fellow music student of Stephanie's at Columbia; and when I could hear him (he and Chris on that side of the stage were at times nearly inaudible) his contributions were quite good. "Good Dress" is another song from the demo tape; it has a stiff, staccato rhythm (with a kind of circus-y piano line). The other parts of the song are a little smoother but more grinding. The vamping bridge is based on an ominous solo line of Chris's everyone else drops out for then joins; she takes a fine whining solo over the coda based on the chorus. "Seeking Home" (also a demo song) starts quietly, with pattering percussion, simple alternating chords, and understated vocal; it gives way to a keening harmony hook (which the keyboard player didn't stay with as much as he should; it's the harmony that makes the hook so strong). The bridge begins with a driving riff, then develops the hook into a building vocal passage that releases back into the hook itself for a few repetitions (nagging eighths underneath from Stephanie) to the end. There was one gesture made to their past: they did the Kittywinder song "Monopoly Girl." Why that one is a mystery; it wouldn't have been among the first ten I would have guessed. It's an OK song, with a nice slide guitar part from Chris, but I find it a little sluggish, and since the course of the song is strongly tied to the vocal melody (which was hard to hear at that point), it was the song that came off least well. They could do better with their nostalgia. The other demo song is "Bureau," my favorite of the four. It's an absolutely lovely song, with a quietly insistent syncopated part from Stephanie against a nice little Chris arpeggio; the vocal is quiet but yearning. And to top it off the rhythm is uneven: in the verses it's six measures of three plus one of four (22/4?), while in the chorus it's two 3s and one 4 (10/4), over an archetypal F-G-Am (or transposition) chord sequence. (The overall effect is similar to the harmonics-graced Kittywinder song "Secret," which is in 11/4 throughout.) Most rock&roll songs make me tense up, hold my breath, hyperventilate; "Bureau" is of another sort, that make me relax, take a long, deep breath instead. The effect is increased in the last verse, where the keyboard adds a really sweet little obbligato line which tops off the song just so. The bridge is a call&response holding action over spare guitar; but it's only a matter of time before the chorus, even louder and more releasing than before, comes back and closes out the song. (The set's only mishap was at the end of "Bureau," where Stephanie broke and dropped her pick, and finished her little piercing two-note solo on her knees after scrambling for it.) Two new songs finished the set; the first has no title (it was just noted "New" on the setlist), and didn't do much for me; its harmony was a little blander and its rhythm more regular than the rest of the songs. Maybe next time. The finale "Cicada" started with a striking high-pitched lick from Stephanie and moved through a considerable number of sections (another one to make more sense of on future listens), many of which were in 7. And it delighted me that the long coda was in 13 (alternating 4-3-4-2; not unlike Babe the blue OX's "Tatoos" with its 4-3-4-3-3-2). As I'd been watching the set list (bad habit), I knew when the show was coming to an end, so it wasn't =surprisingly= short for me; but they only did eight songs, and I suspect it lasted closer to 30 than 40 minutes. It's plausible those were all the songs they have so far. Given that two of these were players I knew well, and the rest of the band are also strong musicians, I expected them to play well; and it didn't occur to me until other people were commenting afterwards that this was after all the first show by a new band. And as a first show, it was a considerable artistic success. They sounded like a band, not a group of musicians, and the dead-on quality I noted in the first song continued throughout the whole set. Even first-rate musicians don't always manage that. I should hardly need to add that I can't wait to see them play again; it was a great pleasure to see the return of two favorite musicians, and worth waiting the two years to see. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:21:00 -0500 From: Greg Dunn Subject: Re: DIVX = Greed >But please consider not shopping at Circuit City (or any other organization) >who is pushing DIVX. Check out http://www.bandivx.com for a more complete list of reasons not to support this rogue format. ;-) - -- | Greg Dunn | "god money's not looking for the | | gregdunn@indy.net | cure. god money's not concerned | | GregDunn@aol.com | with the sick among the pure." | | http://www.indy.net/~gregdunn/ | Trent Reznor | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:51:24 EST From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: DIVX = Greed....and the world we live in yeah.......whatever. I dont like divx either but this is america and the bottom line is the consumer makes his choices. If they don't buy it......it won't exist. I can think of about a thousand other causes that are worth fighting for over this one. Hell......i'm still pissed that they almost literally dropped vinyl records over night in favor of cd's. Granted......cd's are better but, as a consumer who had thousands invested in the old system, i would have liked a smoother transition. If dvd's could record right now, they would have done the same thing to VHS. Its going to happen eventually. I bought a lasar disc/cd player a couple of years back that going to be extinct soon. It never ends. I have more reasons to be upset over all these things and I never once thought to boycott anyone. It's the world we live in as anyone who owns a pc knows. Hey........but if you come up with a human rights violation.......................I could get behind that. fred ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:10:05 -0600 (CST) From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: Re: DIVX = Greed Hi, Before I read anything on the net I had read about DIVX in TV Technology in an article ripping it up. I have never been in the local CC. bye, KrW "Yes, it left a great gaping hole in the water!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:14:28 -0600 (CST) From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: Re: DIVX = Greed....and the world we live in Hi, Rita Rudner said she would not buy a CD player until she got a guarentee that it was going to stay around. It drove her crazy and she was sure that all those people who wander the streets talking to themselves were once 8-track owners. bye, KrW "Yes, it left a great gaping hole in the water!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:21:28 -0600 (CST) From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: Sarah Mc ... Hi, I have my radio alarm set to a KC "mix" station, on the therory that obnoxious heavy rotaion 'top 40' would propel me out of bed. Today I heard, "Hi, I'm Sarah McLachlan, and you're listening to (whatever) in Kansas City". Say it ain't so, Sarah, say it ain't so! (I also saw Teri Garr in a TV com for an easy listening station in KC. And so it goes.) bye, KrW "Yes, it left a great gaping hole in the water!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:01:33 EST From: Songbird22@aol.com Subject: Jonatha Brooke in Rolling Stone! In the Feb. issue of Rolling Stone (w/t Lauryn Hill on the cover), there is a short review of the Jonatha Brooke live CD (I have an unopened, autographed extra, btw, if anyone is interested please e-mail me!!). The album got 3 stars and a nice review ;) It's good to see that she's *finally* getting a little attention (not that Rolling Stone is the greatest magazine, but whatever :). - -jessica http://adam.nettfriends.com/Jess ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 19:37:11 -0800 From: Dave Williamson Subject: Re: DIVX = Greed....and the world we live in I was just reading last week about CDs. It's been discovered that they do have a limited shelf life. Apparently oxides build up on them, and they start to deteriorate at about the 6 year point. There are now some that think that their quality may be about as good as audio tapes after time has taken its toll. Now vinyl may be heavy and bulky, but if you take good care of it (keep away from heat, handle carefully, store vertically and snug, and clean before each play) it lasts a lifetime. Some of the earliest vinyl I ever bought still sounds wonderful on my Rega. Now if only you didn't have to get up to flip it every 20-25 minutes. Regards, Dave. FAMarcus@aol.com wrote: > > yeah.......whatever. I dont like divx either but this is america and the > bottom line is the consumer makes his choices. If they don't buy it......it > won't exist. I can think of about a thousand other causes that are worth > fighting for over this one. Hell......i'm still pissed that they almost > literally dropped vinyl records over night in favor of cd's. > Granted......cd's are better but, as a consumer who had thousands invested in > the old system, i would have liked a smoother transition. If dvd's could > record right now, they would have done the same thing to VHS. Its going to > happen eventually. I bought a lasar disc/cd player a couple of years back > that going to be extinct soon. It never ends. I have more reasons to be > upset over all these things and I never once thought to boycott anyone. It's > the world we live in as anyone who owns a pc knows. Hey........but if you > come up with a human rights violation.......................I could get behind > that. > > fred ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:11:44 -0500 From: Paul Schreiber Subject: Re: La Femme Nikita >A couple of other comments/queries... we now have the TV series of Le Femme >Nikita running. It seems to be Canadian/Australian, with Peta Wilson playing >the title role. After initial skepticism, I've grown to like it, and they >play quite a bit of ecto-ish music (I've head Sarah McLachlan a few times.) >Does anybody else know it? We've also just started getting Babylon 5 (quite >a few years late, but that's OK), which I remember people on this list >mentioning favourably. I'm thinking it's Canadian as well -- it seems to get a fair bit of advertising (station IDs and promos) up here in the great white north. :) Paul shad 96c / 3A CS / mac activist / eda / fumbler fan of / jewel / sophie b. / sarah slean / steve poltz / emm gryner / / x-files / buffy / dawson's creek / habs / bills / 49ers / t h i n k d i f f e r e n t. I chained my angel to the eavestrough / it was November and I think I pissed him off - -- Sarah Slean, "Angel" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:39:54 -0500 From: Greg Dunn Subject: Re: CD degradation (a small rant :-) >I was just reading last week about CDs. It's been discovered that they >do have a limited shelf life. Apparently oxides build up on them, and >they start to deteriorate at about the 6 year point. There are now some >that think that their quality may be about as good as audio tapes after >time has taken its toll. I respectfully say... hogwash. :-) I have some CDs in my collection that are 15+ years old, allegedly manufactured with the methods that are extremely prone to oxidation degradation, and they play just fine today even on my cheap CD players. My CD collection is probably well over 2000 discs at this point, evenly distributed over 15 years, so I think I have a pretty decent sample to draw from. Being an engineer, and having some idea what the oxidation problem stems from, I think that at some point the oxidation would be visibly evident (aluminum oxide has a slightly different appearance). No such changes are visible on my discs, either, as compared to the brand new ones. One interesting item that is ignored by the press when reporting on the oxidation phenomenon: When a layer of aluminum oxide forms on an aluminum surface, it effectively seals the surface from further oxidation and degradation. Telescope mirror optics are aluminum-coated, and a few minutes in an oxygen-rich environment after plating grows a protective oxide coating that prevents further oxidation of the base coat. They generally only need re-coating when dust builds up on the exposed surface - -- any physical cleaning of the surface would scratch the coating. This is not a concern with CDs unless you handle them quite roughly, as the plastic coating is a pretty good protectant. Another opinion: audio quality will not suffer on a degraded CD. When the player fails to read error-free data from the disc, it mutes the output. In extremely rare instances, the CD player will use error concealment to handle borderline quality data, and this may be audible. In general, it'll either play or fail. I've had 6 defective CDs out of 2000+, and they all muted and skipped. Some early CDs, particularly CD-Videos, and early laser discs, were actually glued together at the factory. The original glue solutions ate away the aluminum within months. I have a CD-Video and a couple of laser discs afflicted with this problem, and they degraded really quickly, many years ago. My $.02: unless you have double-sided laser discs, or CD-Video discs made in the early 80s, I think CD degradation will be a rare occurrence and traceable to specific manufacturers / labels with poor manufacturing QC. :-) - -- | Greg Dunn | "god money's not looking for the | | gregdunn@indy.net | cure. god money's not concerned | | GregDunn@aol.com | with the sick among the pure." | | http://www.indy.net/~gregdunn/ | Trent Reznor | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 20:51:44 -0500 From: Jeffrey Burka Subject: Re: DIVX = Greed....and the world we live in Dave Williamson wrote: > > I was just reading last week about CDs. It's been discovered that they > do have a limited shelf life. Apparently oxides build up on them, and > they start to deteriorate at about the 6 year point. There are now some > that think that their quality may be about as good as audio tapes after > time has taken its toll. You're welcome to have a listen to any of my 6+ year old discs (I have probably 150-175 discs that are over 10 years old, and some go back as far as 16 years). I'm no audiophile, but *I* can't tell the difference in the way they sound... jeff - -- |Jeffrey C. Burka|||http://www.cqi.com/~jburka ||||"I've got time to rest / | ||||||||||||| And I've got a clear, able mind that sees my life going fine. | | 'Cause everything I need is right here in my hands..." --Melissa Ferrick | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 18:51:20 +0000 From: Birdie Subject: Re: DIVX = Greed....and the world we live in Ummm - there have been some isolated cases of CD's going very very bad - as I know one CD release of Dusty Springfield's "Songbook" on the Pickwick indie brit label perhaps - the original release of it a few years back - had the oxidation problem and went bad over time. So, it's a problem that has happened in certain isolated cases. Other than that - they really we not very good at recording, mixing and mastering digitally at first - and I can assure some of the earliest CD's sound too tinny and screechy and thin - high ended because of it. I'd like a newly digitally re-mastered CD copy of the Talking Heads "Remain in Light" for instance.... Meanwhile, engineers and mixers and recordists have the hang of it now! Birdie ( who loves full - warm - rich natural tones) Jeffrey Burka wrote: > Dave Williamson wrote: > > > > I was just reading last week about CDs. It's been discovered that they > > do have a limited shelf life. Apparently oxides build up on them, and > > they start to deteriorate at about the 6 year point. There are now some > > that think that their quality may be about as good as audio tapes after > > time has taken its toll. > > You're welcome to have a listen to any of my 6+ year old discs (I have > probably 150-175 discs that are over 10 years old, and some go back > as far as 16 years). I'm no audiophile, but *I* can't tell the > difference in the way they sound... > > jeff > > -- > |Jeffrey C. Burka|||http://www.cqi.com/~jburka ||||"I've got time to rest / | > ||||||||||||| And I've got a clear, able mind that sees my life going fine. | > | 'Cause everything I need is right here in my hands..." --Melissa Ferrick | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:53:03 -0600 (CST) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: DIVX = Greed....and the world we live in On Sun, 7 Feb 1999, Dave Williamson wrote: > I was just reading last week about CDs. It's been discovered that they > do have a limited shelf life. Apparently oxides build up on them, and > they start to deteriorate at about the 6 year point. There are now some > that think that their quality may be about as good as audio tapes after > time has taken its toll. Hmm... I've heard this rumour for a long time. We have a lot of people here who have large CD collections going back a decade or more. Has anybody here seen any evidence of this themselves? - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:12:50 -0500 (EST) From: jason and jill Subject: Re: DIVX = Greed....and the world we live in > Ummm - there have been some isolated cases of CD's going very very bad - as I > know one CD release of Dusty Springfield's "Songbook" on the Pickwick > indie brit label perhaps - the original release of it a few years back - had the > oxidation problem and went bad over time. > > So, it's a problem that has happened in certain isolated cases. No doubt a disc produced by PDO--or more accurately--misproduced by PDO, a well-acknowledged problem that effected many British labels (including the pricey UK classical label Hyperion). This has been known about for a number of years, with some classical magazines printing specific catalog numbers and pressing periods for known problem discs. There are about a 1000x more horror stories about problem record production. US record pressings were so embarassingly bad that there's a whole section of the US copyright code labels rammed through just to cut off the then-growing business of stores importing superior European pressings of albums available in the US. There's info about what happened at: http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/bronzed.html Jason ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 22:04:33 -0600 From: Mark Lowry Subject: super lotus Hi, Anyone know who does the cover of R.E.M.'s "Superman" in the new Lotus commercial? (Shown tonight during "The X-Files?"). Mark n.p. PJ _Rid of Me_ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 23:19:55 -0500 From: Jeffrey Burka Subject: Re: DIVX = Greed....and the world we live in > Ummm - there have been some isolated cases of CD's going very very bad > - as I know one CD release of Dusty Springfield's "Songbook" on the > Pickwick indie brit label perhaps - the original release of it a > few years back - had the oxidation problem and went bad over time. Ummm...but what does this have to do with the original post, which (a) suggested that this was newly discovered (people have been worrying about the oxidation thing for years) and (b) suggested that we were all going to have all of our CDs go up in... er...rust. > So, it's a problem that has happened in certain isolated cases. Sure. Just like CDs that had one silkscreen on them, but were actually pressed with another album. Or that metal zipper on my ski jacket that just broke. Hardly a "sky is falling" scenario. jeff np: miscelanous Klezmatics, as I try to reconstruct the setlist from their show last night... - -- |Jeffrey C. Burka|||http://www.cqi.com/~jburka ||||"I've got time to rest / | ||||||||||||| And I've got a clear, able mind that sees my life going fine. | | 'Cause everything I need is right here in my hands..." --Melissa Ferrick | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:37:52 EST From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: DIVX = Greed....and the world we live in In a message dated 2/7/99 11:22:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, jburka@cqi.com writes: << Ummm...but what does this have to do with the original post, which (a) suggested that this was newly discovered (people have been worrying about the oxidation thing for years) and (b) suggested that we were all going to have all of our CDs go up in... er...rust. >> uhhhhhhhhhh.........noooooo.........the original post was a warning that the DIVX's are coming. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 20:55:02 -0800 From: Bill Mazur Subject: Re: Question from Happy Mike (aka Fog), Please see my comments below: > Bill, thanks for the 'seconding' of my choices. Please allow me to offer > some further opinions. You're welcome. It was my pleasure. > Sort of an aside, but your points about headliner fan acceptance is well > taken. I remember going to see Marillion as an opening act for Rush during > M's Misplaced Childhood tour. I would have thought a Rush crowd would have > been reasonably impressed with Marillion but to my surprise the crowd > effectively booed them off the stage. Marillion raced thru the M.C. album > and cleared out ASAP. The fans were like, Rush and only Rush will do. It was > sad. I convinced a friend to go with me and it was a piss poor experience. I > was proud to walk out after Rush's opening number. I think that is why Rush fans seem to get blasted so often in R.M.P. They are very loyal (some are truly fanatic) and quite vocal. They don't always seem as open to music other than Rush. What you describe above is a real shame. > Fortunately, they came back to The Chance for the Clutching at Straws tour, > and I made sure the same friend went to that. We were not disappointed. The > show was broadcast on the local radio station and even the DJs there > commented that the crowd repartee was comparable if not better than a U2 > show. I'm happy to hear that you and your friend got to see Fish and Marillion in all of their glory! Did you see the first tour with Hogarth for "Season's End"? The show that they did at the Cabaret in San Jose, CA was one of the best shows I have ever seen (in my Top 5. The Gabriel/Genesis performance of the "Lamb" is #1). > Anyway, yes, its tough for Marillion to tour the states these days for > financial reasons. Fish is supposed to have a new album out soon and will > probably have similar problems, although since he's not quite as prolific as > the old band a US Fish tour might have a better chance. It will probably be > short and only a few major cities, but he'll draw a Marillion crowd and they > are indeed fiercely loyal. And I think 90% or better would be wowed by Happy > if she found her way to open for him. Wouldn't it be great to see a Happy > show a few years in the future where the whole crowd sings along with her? You very well may be right about this one. I know that Fish has a rabid following (I mean no disrespect or criticism by making this statement). I know that most Fish fans DO NOT like Hogarth and newer Marillion because they think that Marillion is no longer "progressive". I was afraid that the crowd may not be as tolerant of Happy's mix of the prog leanings with her alternative and pop leanings. I saw Fish and Marillion within a few days of each other in S.F. about a year or so ago. Both shows were fantastic. Progressive rock is my music of choice and has been since the late 60s. A good solid 1/3 of my 1000+ CD collection is prog music (60s to 90s, covering many sub-genres). That being said, the rest of my collection covers a lot of other ground. I say this because I find that some, possibly even many, prog fans have a much narrower focus on the music that they like. They also seem to be pretty tough on music that they dislike. My observation, is that they are not always tolerant of music that is not "progressive" enough for their tastes. Now I really don't want to stereotype here either. I really hope that you are correct and that the majority of prog fans would really like Happy. That would be wonderful! Mike, I would like pose a question for you and the other prog fans here on Ecto. Do you think Happy would be a good addition to some of the Prog festivals that are held several times each year? I know that there are several of these festivals on the East Coast (I can't remember the names of them off the top of my head). I know one is held in the DC area and the other is held in NC. The festival that I have attended over the part five or six years is ProgFest. ProgFest has been held in L.A. and will be held in S.F. this year on Memorial Day weekend. ProgFest has been friendly toward prog bands with female vocalists. Halloween, Minimum Vital and White Willow are all examples of prog bands with female vocalists that were well received at ProgFest. > Regarding King Crimson: You are correct when you say the Crim crowd is a > critical one, but if you follow the news from that camp you might develop a > more favorable impression. Robert Fripp is now the CEO (in his words: venal > leader) of Discipline Global Mobile, "a small and independent record > company". Besides promoting all things new Crim (which includes unreleased > old live Crim, like the Epitaph set from the 1969 band) they are soliciting > new talent. An extremely important part of their new talent's cadre is live > performance. RF's opinion is that without that, music is your hobby - keep > it that way. So the deep Crim crowd is being exposed to and encouraged to > buy a variety of new and unknown artists. If Happy's deal with Samson > eventually goes sour, my suggestion would be to contact DGM. They may not > have the money to make her a big star, but I think they'd be very interested > in making sure her music is made available to all who want it. > > Crim should tour soon, given that there is a boxed set of old live > recordings called "Cirkus" due this month, but as mentioned in my earlier > post the current double trio configuration of the band is hard to schedule. > I think the Crim crowds are mellower and more open than those in the past, > because Fripp's DGM venture. Thanks for sharing this info Mike (BTW do you prefer Fog?). I haven't been following Fripp's pursuits over the last few years. All of your points are really valid. > While I loath labeling, it is sometimes necessary in conversation to > describe an artist. If pressed by the uninitiated, I will call Happy's music > progressive rock. Fair enough statement. I agree again and would definitely call Happy's music progressive as well. Would many of the prog fans that frequent R.M.P. feel the same way I wonder? For better or for worse, R.M.P. is how I gauge the prog temperature at any given point in time. > Given her influences, I don't think she'd disagree too > strongly. Happy opening for what I would call the undisputed "King" of > progressive rock? I agree that Crimson is a great band. I have seen them live on several occasions. Several times during the Fripp/Wetton/Cross/Bruford period and then again during the Fripp/Belew/Levin/Bruford period. > I'd skip my mother's funeral to see it. Let's hope that your mother outlives Fripp then. ;-) > Re: CPR: Good idea, except that other than the fact that I'm in tune with > Samson thru being a Happy fan, I did not know anything about them. How well > known is this new collaboration? I hope that I am understanding what you are asking here. I'm not certain how well known CPR are. They were mentioned prominantly in the VH1 "Behind the Music" on David Crosby. I'm assuming everyone knows about David Crosby. Jeff Pevar was/is a well regarded session guitarist who has played on several Shawn Colvin recordings. James Raymond was/is a well regarded session musician as well. He is also David Crosby's long lost son. However, neither of them knew that until just a few years ago when David Crosby was in the hopsital for receiving his liver transplant. They met for the first time at that time after the operation was a success. They found out that they also had musical common ground and began collaborating together. It's really a pretty touching story. The CPR CD is a really excellent piece of work both musically and lyrically. Davis Crosby's lyrics are very poignant and reflect the wisdom, appreciation and honesty of a man that has learned some difficult lessons from his life. They also reflect his thankfulness for being alive. Here's the URL to their site if you would like some more info: http://www.crosbycpr.com/main.html > Re: Annie Lennox: Another good idea, although the "opening act envy" Vickie > mentioned about Tori could apply here. Unfortunately, I have the feeling > that most female headliners would be reticent about a Happy Rhodes opening > for them. The possibility of being upstaged at their own show is very > real... I completely understand the point that Vickie and you make here. However, I am hopeful that Annie is mature and secure enough in herself as not to be threatened by Happy. > 'nuff said. I hope you don't mind me saying a few more things. :-) Bill ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V5 #44 *************************