From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V4 #326 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, September 14 1998 Volume 04 : Number 326 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Tossing in the towel [00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu] Re: In a Doghouse? [Stuart Myerburg ] Re: Tossing in the towel [Neile Graham ] Let's talk about Tori! [Eponine ] KT's 'The Dreaming' [Eponine ] Re: HAPPY DEVELOPEMENTS ["Robert Lovejoy" ] Re: Let's talk about Tori! ["J." Wermont ] Jane Siberry [Valerie Kraemer ] Re: Let's talk about Tori! [Faerymouse@aol.com] Re: KT's 'The Dreaming' [JavaHo@aol.com] I was there ["Mitchell A. Pravatiner" ] Lori Carson news...? [Thomas Dunning ] Re: Let's talk about Tori! [Eponine ] Re: Let's talk about Tori! [JavaHo@aol.com] Re: what Neile's playing [Mark Lowry ] In a Doghouse [Stuart Myerburg ] RE: KT's 'The Dreaming' ["Cameron Smith" ] Re: Let's talk about Tori! [dmw ] Now accepting donations [charley darbo ] Re: Lori Carson news...? [Riphug@aol.com] Re: Selected New Releases for Sept. 15 ["Michael P. Hayes" ] Re: In a Doghouse [JavaHo@aol.com] Re: HAPPY DEVELOPEMENTS [FAMarcus@aol.com] Re: Let's talk about Tori! [FAMarcus@aol.com] Re: In a Doghouse [Andrew Fries ] Re: Let's talk about Tori! [meredith ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:03:18 -0500 (EST) From: 00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu Subject: Re: Tossing in the towel Hmm. I think the people here are pretty nice, helpful, and knowledgable... I didn't see your posts, but if it was something I could've responded to, I would've. I don't really like Happy's music all that much (blasphemy, I know ;), but didn't know what this list was really about when I joined it and love all the other artists threads, so I stayed ;) I had a Happy sampler but gave it to someone else who was interested in her, otherwise I could've helped you out. Sorry you're disappointed and frustrated with the list :/ jessica n. weiser - http://adam.nettfriends.com/Jess "they'll be sorry when the star buries the girl, so help me vanish, help me get myself outta here" - e. gryner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:07:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Stuart Myerburg Subject: Re: In a Doghouse? > I have CD by them which I picked up someplace last year - maybe a used CD > store, or it might have even been Tower, can't remember. It's just called > "Throwing Muses" and the tracks are: Call Me, Green, Hate My Way, Vicky's > Box, Rabbits Dying, America, Fear, Stand Up, Soul Soldier, Delicate Cutters. > Is this the same one you're talking about, that will be on In a Doghouse? Yep, that's the one. > But, I'm very bummed out because the first song, Call Me (one of the best > songs on it), got scratched or something and there's all this interference > in the music for about a minute during the song. I've tried cleaning it > lots of times but it didn't help. (As an aside: this has happened to a > number of my CD's, and the problem happens on the same place in every one > that gets damaged - the first song has about a minute of interference > with the signal. One of the portable CD players - which needless to say > I don't use any more - seems to be the culprit. But has anyone ever heard > of a CD player damaging CD's?) My car CD player does some times. It will start skipping at a particular point on a perfectly good CD. If I don't catch it in time, it will damage the CD and actually create a huge, irreversible scratch. Being an idiot when it comes to electronics, I have no idea what causes this. But it's extremely annoying. Stuart _________________________________________________________ Stuart Myerburg Information Services, Rollins School of Public Health http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~stuart _________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:00:48 -0700 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: Tossing in the towel Anna-- Basically, I would just like to repeat what Jeffy said, but also what Jessica said about being sorry this was your experience of the list. However, I don't think it's necessary to be insulting, particularly as the only reason I can figure out that would make you feel badly treated is that we didn't respond to your messages. No one ever insulted you or was rude to you, were they?--they just didn't respond. I personally feel that's a very different thing, especially on a list as busy as this, but you obviously do not. I have a couple of your messages that I was holding to ask you whether I could include them in The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music (which I haven't done yet, because I'm very behind with those requests). Neither of these say anything that would particularly prompt comment or reply (though the comments in them would be welcome additions to the Guide), and I'm not sure what kind of response you might have expected from them. And about your recent message about the Sandy Denny tribute show coming up in NYC I could have written back to say thanks for mentioning the show but since I already knew about it from the Sandy Denny list and live all the way across the country and so can't consider going, that seemed pointless. I guess I could have responded that she's also one of my favourite singers of all time, but I recently sent several messages to the list to that affect. I do apologize for not responding to your request for suggestions for a Happy sampler tape, but because you were on a three-day deadline and I knew I didn't have time to think about it since I'm still working through a backlog of messages from being out of town last week, I hoped someone else would step in. Perhaps if you'd asked people what their favourite songs on the particular albums you have to choose from for your sampler are that might have prompted more responses and been more useful to you. For example I will say repeatedly that my favourite song on _Warpaint_ (and my favourite Happy song overall) is "Words Weren't Made for Cowards", and any Happy sampler should include it. Actually, I think a lot of list members are tired of hearing me repeat that, which is another reason for my hesitation. >I >guess if you're not one of the clique of 12 who post here regularly, then >immediate deletion is the course of choice. That is quite an assumption. How do you know people weren't simply reading and emjoying your messages without feeling required to respond to them? Sometimes responses take time. Sometimes comments that don't seem to require response and the more general questions that get asked get lost in the shuffle in a list this busy, especially when people know you've been on the list a while and aren't brand new. And mostly people are just happy to read what shows up here and respond when something catches their fancy. >This has to be easily the rudest >most ungracious list that I have ever been on. That's quite an indictment. It's also totally the opposite of most people's experience, and the only basis for complaint you have is that people didn't respond to your messages. Was anyone ever directly rude or ungracious to you? If so, particularly if it was me you consider rude and ungracious I personally apologize and if it wasn't me but the list generally, I apologize as a member of the list even though I didn't see anyone be rude or ungracious to you. If not, you owe the list a huge apology for insulting the list for not meeting your unstated requirements. If you had a better time on other lists, maybe you should go back to them. Lists have very different flavours and modes of behaviour--just because you don't mesh with one it might not be the list's fault. The only rude and ungracious behaviour I'm aware of on ecto recently is the message that you just sent that began this thread. - --Neile - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ..... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ..... neile@sff.net The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music .... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:22:54 -0500 From: Eponine Subject: Let's talk about Tori! Dear Irvin, Hi. Ya know, I accidentally deleted all my e-mails this morning. I had quickly read a few Ecto postings, including yours. Didn't you mention Tori Amos's "Tear in Your Hand"? I mean, you mentioned that I mentioned it, that it is a totally overlooked gem, right? That makes me so happy! I bought 'Little Earthquakes' the week it was released. And ya know what? It took me a good 3 or 4 YEARS before I even noticed "Tear in Your Hand"!! Cna you believe that?! I don't understand it - it just got buried for me amongst "Crucify", "Girl", "Winter", "Mother", anmd "Precious Things". But now.... well. may-ay-be i ain't used to may-ay-be smashing in a cold room i cut my hands up every time i touch you may-ay-be maybe it's time to wave goodbye now time to wave goodbye now ======= and the cleverness of this repeating thread: well, I know you well well, better than i used to! ====== And the whole thing about "maybe she's just pieces of me you've never seen well..." It seems like something I had felt but had never heard articulated before. Well, I don't mean to turn this into a "let's analyze Tori Amos lyrics" session because those can just run you in circles.!! And about Tori having lost you with 'Boys for Pele', I couldn't agree more. That album (in my opinion) was an embarrassment, an exercise in utter self-indulgence. The thing is, though, that even BFP has its gems. But I really had to give Tori a re-thinking because of that album. And I refused to allow myself to get excited over 'From the Choirgirl Hotel' this spring. I mean, every time I turned around, there was another interview with Tori going on and on about faeries. I couldn't stand it anymore!! She was kind of making my stomach turn!! But then it happened: there I was, parked in front of the tube, a Friday night, David Letterman show, and - BOOM - Tori is a guest and she played "Spark" and oh sweet Jesus I was back!! Back within her fold like a prodigal daughter. Well, to all Ecto folks who prefer to keep this list for the indie artists, I aoplogize, but the Tori groups are 99% dominated by teenagers, so I will occasionally go on about Tori in this forum. Besides, I see a lot of postings here about Sarah McLachlan, and she's not exactly, um, cutting edge! Well anyway, sorry to anyone whom I may have annoyed. Love, Eponine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:58:05 -0500 From: Eponine Subject: KT's 'The Dreaming' Hey all, I am having major trouble finding any store, online or otherwise, who can get me Kate Bush's 'The Dreaming' on CD. I already have it on cassette, but that's - you know - cassette!! Yuck!! I sat on my butt for years putting off upgrading my KT collection to CD, and now it appears it is too late. I have not tried all the online stores - just CDNOW and MusicBoulevard. I think I checked out TowerRecords.com, too. Anyone know where I can get it? Thanks for any feedback, Love, Eponine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:42:56 -0400 From: "Robert Lovejoy" Subject: Re: HAPPY DEVELOPEMENTS FAMarcus writes: I say this because I just got off the phone with a woman DJ at >WXPN in Philadelphia. For those of you not familiar with that station, it's >the station that was most responsible for her breakthrough in this area. >Before the CD was released they were playing 3 songs from the CD. I haven't >heard another cut since the album was released. I questioned her about this >and she said that they were giving it some play but they were having a hard >time getting behind it and finding what they think would be something that >they could play. Also listener response has been minimal. Fred, this is bullfeathers. When the album first came out I called WXPN repeatedly asking them to play any cuts they wanted to from the album. I listened as long as I could, they never played anything. I'm through with the folk nazis there and now listen to 88.9, WBCC, the Burlington County College station in New Jersey. I miss the old days of XPN, when they had a music director who was aware. Zappa remains correct. Bob L. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:04:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: Re: Let's talk about Tori! Eponine wrote: > Well, I don't mean to turn this into a "let's > analyze Tori Amos lyrics" session because those can just run you in > circles.!! Actually, I think that would be interesting. I don't mean that about Tori specifically, because I'm not too familiar with her stuff, especially the lyrics (the only one whose lyrics I know well is "God," which I wouldn't mind deconstructing sometime). But just in general, I think it would be fun to talk about lyrics. I don't happen to have any in mind at the moment, but when I think of some, I'll post it. > And about Tori having lost you with 'Boys for Pele', I couldn't agree > more. That album (in my opinion) was an embarrassment, an exercise in > utter self-indulgence. I'm not sure what that means: self-indulgence. At least not in terms of art. Could you be more specific? I hear this a lot in art criticism (whether film, literature, visual art, music, or whatever), and I don't know specifically what the reviewer means by that phrase other than that they think the work is bad. :) I guess I consider all art to be a form of self-indulgence, but in a positive way. Why is indulgence seen as negative? > Well, to all Ecto folks who prefer to keep this list for the indie > artists, I aoplogize, This list is definitely not just for indie artists! They may be prominent, but if you look at the EctoGuide, you'll see all kinds of stuff, from Arrogant Worms to Paula Abdul. And certainly discussion of Tori is welcome here. Again, the EctoGuide! Take a look! (http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide) You'll find that Tori occupies a rarified position among the Ecto Goddesses. > Well anyway, sorry to anyone whom I may have annoyed. What's with all the apologizing lately? Not just you, but everyone. I keep seeing posts that say "sorry if I've offended" at the end of some very decent, non-offending posts! Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:05:21 -0400 From: Valerie Kraemer Subject: Jane Siberry With all of the talk about Jane Siberry recently, does anyone know if she has a new CD in the works? It seems like a long time since she's done a full-scale project. Re: Bound by the Beauty. There was a recent thread about the songs and artists that do or do not touch us emotionally. Bound by the Beauty is one of those songs that goes deep into my heart and makes it go ZING! I get a physical sensation in my body everytime I listen to it. - --Valerie Kraemer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:13:54 EDT From: Faerymouse@aol.com Subject: Re: Let's talk about Tori! In a message dated 9/14/98 2:31:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, loefflep@mis.finchcms.edu writes: [snip] > I bought 'Little Earthquakes' the week it was released. And ya know > what? It took me a good 3 or 4 YEARS before I even noticed "Tear in > Your Hand"!! Cna you believe that?! I don't understand it - it just > got buried for me amongst "Crucify", "Girl", "Winter", "Mother", anmd > "Precious Things". But now.... well. I'm starting to think that I'm the only Tori fan who doesn't really like "Precious Things". . However, I saw her in concert in Seattle and Portland over the weekend, and the new version with the band just blew me away...it was much more powerful. My favorite tracks from LE would have to be the title track, "Mother", "Tear..." and "Girl". [snip] > And the whole thing about "maybe she's just pieces of me you've never > seen well..." It seems like something I had felt but had never heard > articulated before. Well, I don't mean to turn this into a "let's > analyze Tori Amos lyrics" session because those can just run you in > circles.!! No kidding! : ) We've had some really neat discussions on RMTA about Tori lyrics...we've been going through the albums with a "Song Of The Week" that we discuss...it's very interesting. > And about Tori having lost you with 'Boys for Pele', I couldn't agree > more. That album (in my opinion) was an embarrassment, an exercise in > utter self-indulgence. Have to disagree....BFP is easily my favorite album...I *love* the harpsichord. I like cryptic songwriting and dark music/lyrics (probably why my favorite Kate album is The Dreaming). [snip] > Well, to all Ecto folks who prefer to keep this list for the indie > artists, I aoplogize, but the Tori groups are 99% dominated by > teenagers, so I will occasionally go on about Tori in this forum. Not all of us teenagers are bad...really...there are those of us who actually don't think that Tori is a supernatural being. But I know the type of which you speak...I wanted to crack a few heads in at the Tori shows I went to this year. >Well anyway, sorry to anyone whom I may have annoyed. Never fear...different opinions are nice. How boring if everyone agreed all the time! Love Siobhan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:33:13 EDT From: JavaHo@aol.com Subject: Re: KT's 'The Dreaming' I checked ubl.com (Ultimate Band List) and they had The Dreaming on CD for $9.99. They are still running the free shipping and handling special, too. I have ordered tons of stuff from them over the past month and have had *very* good service. Most CDs arrived about 3 days after I received the shipping notice which is typically the same day or day following your order. HTH...Java np...Stormcock by Roy Harper. Just received it in the mail from the aforementioned website. God! what an incredible release. For me, the definitive Roy Harper. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:37:39 -0500 (CDT) From: "Mitchell A. Pravatiner" Subject: I was there Yesterday I went to the Gal-O-Rama performances at the Around the Coyote art fair here in Chicago, which Thomas announced in these pages the other day. I had the pleasure of talking to him, as well as to Jackie of the Plunging Necklines, who performed at Chris and Vickie's Katemas party last month, and were also on the program yesterday. Every act on the progrma was superb. I had a great time. It was the only thing I did at the fair yesterday, and it was well worth sacrificing a day of gallery-hopping for. Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:37:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Thomas Dunning Subject: Lori Carson news...? Prompted by the request for news on new Jane projects, I thought I'd ask the group... I'm dying for some new stuff by Lori Carson...does anyone know anything about any new work? Btw, re: BbtB, the song "hockey" is my favorite Jane song of all time...even if BbtB is only my fourth or fifth favorite Jane CD. Let's see, WIWAB is first, The Walking is second, Maria third & Bound By The Beauty would be fourth. Teenager fifth, Speckless Skyand and Child tie for seventh, and Jane Siberry and No Borders Here tied for ninth. I don't include A Day In The Life as it doesn't seem to be the same kind of recording as these major musical works...I almost think of A Day in the Life as a comedy album. Wow, hows that for train of thought writing? Thomas ps. Great to see Val & Mitch at Gal-O-Rama yesterday. Great performances by Chloe F. Orwell & J.A.C.K.I.E. of the band BIG HELLO, Victoria Storm, Jane Baxter Miller, The Plunging Necklines and my all time favorite - Nora O'Connor, who simply wowed 'em! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:40:23 -0500 From: Eponine Subject: Re: Let's talk about Tori! Dear Joyce, I Just KNEW someone was going to call me on my use of the expression "self-indulgence"! What I mean by it is that an artist puts out, for sale, for $17, a CD full of stuff that is exclusionary to his or her audience. To any audience. For example, if I were to sit at my piano and write music that goes with these words: "...oh I sat at my desk today, it was boring and I cried, I hate my boss's mustache and yet I smiled and I lied..." That is self-indulgence, because it's meaningless to anyone besides myself. Now, I'm *NOT* suggesting that an artist abandon his or her unique vision in order to please an anticipated audience, but I expect to plunk down my $17 and get something that is meant to communicate, not something that is psychologically masturbatory which, IMHO (OK, maybe NOT so humble!!), Tori's 'Boys For Pele' was. Emotionally masturbatory. It meant nothing to me. And I think - from what I've heard - that many other fans were left scratching their heads in disappointment. Shut out. Gee, I sound kinda pompous, don't I?! When I'm typing on my computer my forehead is wrinkled in an agony of self-doubt, but the recipient never gets to see that. So I can imagine how I must sound. Oh well. I don't really have a stick up my rear, I'm just kind of opinionated! Just ever so slightly. (!) Signing off 'til tomorrow, Eponine J. Wermont wrote: > Eponine wrote: > > > Well, I don't mean to turn this into a "let's > > analyze Tori Amos lyrics" session because those can just run you in > > circles.!! > > Actually, I think that would be interesting. I don't mean that about > Tori specifically, because I'm not too familiar with her stuff, especially > the lyrics (the only one whose lyrics I know well is "God," which I > wouldn't mind deconstructing sometime). But just in general, I think it > would be fun to talk about lyrics. I don't happen to have any in mind at > the moment, but when I think of some, I'll post it. > > > And about Tori having lost you with 'Boys for Pele', I couldn't agree > > more. That album (in my opinion) was an embarrassment, an exercise in > > utter self-indulgence. > > I'm not sure what that means: self-indulgence. At least not in terms of > art. Could you be more specific? I hear this a lot in art criticism (whether > film, literature, visual art, music, or whatever), and I don't know > specifically what the reviewer means by that phrase other than that they > think the work is bad. :) I guess I consider all art to be a form of > self-indulgence, but in a positive way. Why is indulgence seen as negative? > > > Well, to all Ecto folks who prefer to keep this list for the indie > > artists, I aoplogize, > > This list is definitely not just for indie artists! They may be prominent, > but if you look at the EctoGuide, you'll see all kinds of stuff, from > Arrogant Worms to Paula Abdul. And certainly discussion of Tori is welcome > here. Again, the EctoGuide! Take a look! (http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide) > You'll find that Tori occupies a rarified position among the Ecto Goddesses. > > > Well anyway, sorry to anyone whom I may have annoyed. > > What's with all the apologizing lately? Not just you, but everyone. I > keep seeing posts that say "sorry if I've offended" at the end of some > very decent, non-offending posts! > > Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:53:34 EDT From: JavaHo@aol.com Subject: Re: Let's talk about Tori! Eponine winces: << I Just KNEW someone was going to call me on my use of the expression "self-indulgence"! >> I (and a few others on the list) had exactly the same reaction to BfP as you. We went through a thread to this effect a few months ago. The conclusion I drew from what was written about this release, both pro and con, is that while the masses did not find a connection with this album, there *is* a very specific audience that finds a deep emotional and artistic connection with it. I'm not sure what the common thread is among those who consider it her masterwork, but albeit an apparent minority, there is strong BfP following. Just my humble observation. Go figger....Java np...Ellen McIlwaine...more about this woman later!!! Stay tuned. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:58:27 -0500 From: Mark Lowry Subject: Re: what Neile's playing Michael Colford wrote in response to the The Hanging Garden soundtrack: > It's a great soundtrack, and I agree, a fabulous movie (I've seen it > twice so far.) But it's not my favorite of the year, that honor > goes to The Opposite of Sex so far. As for Pi, I'll be seeing it > this weekend. Now, on to the soundtrack... Liked Opposite ok ... very funny ... but didn't grab me like I wanted it to. Still, enjoyed it very much. > 1) Ani Difranco - The Million You Never Made > 2) Ashley MacIsaac - Ashley's Reels > 3) Mae Moore - Deep Water > 4) Spirit of the West - Kiss & Tell > 5) Jane Siberry - When Spring Comes > 6) Holly Cole - Petals in a Stream > 7) The Rankin Family - Sir James Baird > 8) Meryn Cadell w/ Mary Margaret O'Hara - Wash Down > 9) Mary Jane Lamond - Ba Ba Mo Leanabh > 10) Lori Yates - The Future Is Here > 11) Deb Montgomery - The Tale > 12) Aether - Half Light > 13) Laurel MacDonald - Oran Na H Eala > 14) John Roby - Theme from the Hanging Garden > 15) Leahy - Colm Quigley > 16) Wyrd Sisters - If It Ain't Here > > A plethora of fabulous Canadian artists! I am so there. Calling my local record store and ordering it right now. Thanks, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:20:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Stuart Myerburg Subject: In a Doghouse After talking about it earlier today, I came home to discover my copy of Throwing Muses' _In a Doghouse_ had arrived in the mail (I pre-ordered it from Rykodisc). The self-titled debut is as good as ever. It's been remastered, but I never really thought my import copy sounded bad. So, I don't notice any difference. I like _Chains Changed_. I had never heard the EP before, but I had heard most of the songs from it in live or redone versions. It's nice to be able to hear the originals, which sort of form an extension to the first album. But the demos are the real jewels here. I think I like most of them better than the recorded versions. The only demo which I don't like as much as the later version is "And a She Wolf After the War." There is something about the way Kristin and Tanya's voices work together on the version from _The Fat Skier_ that I love and that's missing in the demo. The final tracks are early unrecorded Muses songs that were recorded by the last Muses lineup. They are interesting, I guess. But I'm not as impressed by them as the other stuff on the 2 discs. Stuart np: In a Doghouse - Throwing Muses _________________________________________________________ Stuart Myerburg Information Services, Rollins School of Public Health http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~stuart _________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:39:26 +0100 From: "Cameron Smith" Subject: RE: KT's 'The Dreaming' A month of lurking on this wonderful list has to come to an end... If you get really stuck, the UK release is still readily available (try www.iMVS.com - I've had good service from them in the past) but bear in mind us poor Brits pay woefully inflated prices for CDs as it is. I just looked up "The Dreaming" and it'll work out at around $12.60 before shipping costs (again, from the UK). Amazon.com also have it listed as an import for $14.99, and I suppose after postage it might work out pretty much the same. Hope these leads help. Laters Cameron Smith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:43:07 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: Let's talk about Tori! On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 JavaHo@aol.com wrote: > Eponine winces: > > << I Just KNEW someone was going to call me on my use of the expression > "self-indulgence"! >> > > I (and a few others on the list) had exactly the same reaction to BfP as you. > We went through a thread to this effect a few months ago. The conclusion I > drew from what was written about this release, both pro and con, is that while > the masses did not find a connection with this album, there *is* a very > specific audience that finds a deep emotional and artistic connection with it. i don't think i ever would have >gotten< "pele" if i hadn't repeatedly made tapes of acoustic performances from it. (i didn't enjoy the tape, so i wouldn't have listened to it if not prodeed by a handful of folks who wanted copies) after a number of repetions, though, songs that initially did strike me as self-indulgent, hopelessly obscure and half-formed suddenly started to make sense to me. after that i was able to hear quite a bit more in the recorded version. i still wouldn't say it's my favorite of ms. amos' records; i'll still take "earthquakes" by a mile. but it's probably my second favorite, and i now think of it as "inaccessible" for sure, but not nearly as self-indulgent as on first blush. - -- d. np frank black and the catholics - - oh,no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmayowel@access.digex.net - - and dmw@mwmw.com ... get yr pathos at http://www.pathetic-caverns.com/ - - new reviews! tunes, books, flicks, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:53:58 -0500 From: charley darbo Subject: Now accepting donations - --to buy groceries: I've spent SO MUCH DAMN MONEY ON CDs this past week. Ramen noodles for lunch and supper (coworkers walking past the kichen: "what's that _smell?_"), but I now own (and paid full price for!): (in no partivular order) (partivular? I like that. It's _gotta_ mean something. Resembling multicolored genitalia? I just invented a word to describe Michael Jackson!) (in no partiCular order) Hole: _Celebrity_Skin_ RATING: $7 blah, so far Rasputina: _How_We_Quit_the_Forest_ RATING: jury's still out; initially disappointed, but we'll see: $10 Rob Zombie: _Hellbilly_Deluxe_ RATING: $20 Way too much fun and today I bought (the looks I get): Lucinda Williams: _Car_Wheels_on_a_Gravel_Road_ RATING: So far, so good; judging from the first four songs, $25 Marilyn Manson: _Mechanical_Animals_ RATING: $100,000 He just _slays_ me. - --charley n.p. "Drunken Angel" from _Car_Wheels_on_a_Gravel_Road_; just slipped into "Concrete and Barbed Wire." Rating might go up. n.r. Bulgakov still ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:54:52 EDT From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: Re: Lori Carson news...? Snippets of stuff I found on the internet: **She is currently in the midst of a national U.S. tour with plans for Europe in the fall. Although she has been very busy over the last year supporting her own album, she has managed to collaborate on two other projects coming out in 1997: Visions II with Graeme Revell on Angel Records and City of Light with Bill Laswell and others on Sub Rosa. ** **Bill Laswell: City of Light. Music and ambience brewed on the streets of India, an Eastern frame of mind. With Lori Carson, Trilok Gurtu, Hakim Bey, Coil, and Tetsu Inoue. Spoken word produced by Janet Rienstra. On SubRosa. ** http://www.hyperreal.org/music/labels/axiom/new.html ** Lori Carson With McKinley at OK Hotel This event happened on August 29, 1998. By Scott Holter and Roberta Cruger, Seattle Weekly Initially renowned as a vocalist in Anton Fier's Golden Palominos, Lori Carson has re-emerged as a respected solo artist with three records of her own, including 1997's Everything I Touch Runs Wild. Self-produced and recorded in her New York City apartment, the record was a personal pilgrimage through Carson's most intimate, emotional and sensual being, driven home by her stunningly fragile voice, barely a whisper over lush instrumentation of guitar, cello, trumpet and piano. Carson brings a similar delicate hush to the stage, a sleek presence that commands attention and a dark, haunting sound that matches the quiet poignancy of her lyrics. All at once, she can be seductive and sensitive — even spooky. "Costello's melodic charm, Coltrane's depth, Tom Waits' fearlessness . ..the Pixies' goofiness, and Portishead's spookiness," as well as a dash of Rilke and Gabriel Garcia Marquez — that's how opener McKinley fancies herself. And right she is: This intriguing Portland singer/songwriter's moody offerings simmer. On her debut LP, Big Top Shop Talk, she sails through songs with a free-form flow, her voice a quiet rustling and the music hanging low. Trained as a mechanical engineer, McKinley has been a bicycle mechanic, newspaper delivery person and desert traveler, but her musical calling is certain to spellbind. ** **Lori Carson won the Outstanding Album and Outstanding Songwriter categories in the 1998 Long Island Music Awards.** http://www.limusicawards.com/winners.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:28:50 -0500 (CDT) From: "Michael P. Hayes" Subject: Re: Selected New Releases for Sept. 15 On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Robert Lovejoy wrote: > ...and don't forget the Firesign Theatre's new one is due out Tuesday > on Rhino!! ...and also from Rhino due this Tuesday is the re-issue of the original compilation, but with an additional 90(!) songs from the same era, to make it a four-CD box set. :-) Well, my curiosity is raised by this, anyway... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:49:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Thomas Dunning Subject: Re: Lori Carson news...? Thanks for all that info Jill! Thomas ps. to Charley - I LOVE the new Courtney Lovehole record. Its the best rock album I've bought in ages. Easily $12.99 over your rating of $7, for me anyway... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:02:25 EDT From: JavaHo@aol.com Subject: Re: In a Doghouse Stuart informs: << I came home to discover my copy of Throwing Muses' _In a Doghouse_ had arrived in the mail >> I've seen TM mentioned from time to time on the list. I checked the Ecto Guide for a description only to find that they haven't hit the charts there yet. Can you offer a description (or comparison) of their music? Much appreciated...Java np...Jonatha Brooke - Ten Cent Wings (Little Java pulled it out 'cause she loves "Secrets and Lies". I haven't listened to this in a while. Forgot how nice it was.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:22:00 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: HAPPY DEVELOPEMENTS In a message dated 9/14/98 5:59:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rlovejoy@bellatlantic.net writes: << Fred, this is bullfeathers. When the album first came out I called WXPN repeatedly asking them to play any cuts they wanted to from the album. I listened as long as I could, they never played anything. I'm through with the folk nazis there and now listen to 88.9, WBCC, the Burlington County College station in New Jersey. I miss the old days of XPN, when they had a music director who was aware. >> The dj I spoke with was Helen Leicht ( not sure if that spelling is right) and anyone that knows her knows that she has been behind Happy since the early days when she played her at WMMR. It's not her fault. There is a new musical director who does the noon show at WXPN during the week......Shawn, and i'm not sure of her last name. It might have been me, but when she played a cut from MANY WORLDS..., after they got the promo, she made a remark that I took as a sarcastic reference to her similarity to Kate Bush. I haven't been bery fond of her since. fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:40:49 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: Let's talk about Tori! In a message dated 9/14/98 6:08:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jwermont@sonic.net writes: << m not sure what that means: self-indulgence. At least not in terms of art. Could you be more specific? I hear this a lot in art criticism (whether film, literature, visual art, music, or whatever), and I don't know specifically what the reviewer means by that phrase other than that they think the work is bad. :) I guess I consider all art to be a form of self-indulgence, but in a positive way. Why is indulgence seen as negative? >> I have to say first that I love Tori. I have repeatedly read the words to everything she has done. The first two cd's were brilliant and emotional and I understood all she was trying to convey. Precious things is my favorite song by her and that story is the one I closely relate to her. In my opinion self indulgence describes her last two cd's. To me that occurs when the artist is the only one who knows what she is talking about. That occurred mostly on bfp. It's not 100% but its a lot. It annoys me but with tori i've put up with it because I love her personality,musicianship, aura.....whatever. Is anyone here familiar the the graphic art series called THE SANDMAN by NEIL GAIMAN??? One of the characters is called DELERIUM. That was based on neils good friend, tori amos. Theres a good reason for that. fred and let me say now that no one has to apologize for anything they say to me good or bad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:46:24 +1100 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Re: In a Doghouse In a message "Re: In a Doghouse" on 14/Sep/1998 22:02:25 JavaHo@aol.com says: > I've seen TM mentioned from time to time on the list. I checked the Ecto Guide > for a description only to find that they haven't hit the charts there yet. Can > you offer a description (or comparison) of their music? Ah, Throwing Muses! I love 'em... Started by Kristin Hersh and Tanya Donnelly around mid-late 80's and kept going until sometime last year (give or take a year or so, I'm notoriously bad with my dates), when they went broke. They simply said that they couldn't afford to play as a band anymore, something I found extremely strange. For all the critical acclaim they obviously didn't sell all that many records, and it doesn't surprise me - their music was rough, edgy and uncomfortable. Extremely interesting, but far from "user friendly". I've got, let's see... 8 of their CDs, and my personal faves are: their first - the one that is being reissued as "In a Doghouse", "Red Heaven" from 92' and the one that preceeded it - "The Real Ramona". Ramona was, I think, their one attempt at more accessible, poppy sound and is notable for a couple of tracks where the rising influnce of Tanya Donnelly as a songwriter can be observed (after this CD Tanya left to pursue her solo career). I must admit their last two records: "Limbo" and "University" didn't do all that much for me. All the elements that made TM were still there but they just didn't add up quite the same way... There are two threads leading from Throwing Muses: Tanya Donnelly had quite a success with Belly and then "Lovesongs for Underdogs". Kristen Hersh's also continues making music on her own, with two solo CDs so far. Neither thread is very much like TM though, although Kristen's records are probably closer to it - - after all TM were always largely *her* band. __________________________________________________ There are two rules for ultimate success in life. 1. Never tell everything you know. http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html __________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:58:42 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: Let's talk about Tori! Hi! I'm one of the three people on the planet who think that _Boys For Pele_ is a masterwork of the highest order (weren't we just talking about emotional music here recently? :). I don't know how anything so crushingly cathartic could ever be considered "masturbatory" or "self-indulgent". So what if the lyrics don't spell themselves out for you on first listen? I like music that makes you think. Metaphor is what makes poetry, well, poetry. But what the hell do I know. I will state that it's been a long time since I've listened to _BfP_ -- I have to be in a very specific mood to listen to it, it just destroys me otherwise. I like _FTCH_ quite a lot, but it's not coming from anywhere near the same place and it doesn't affect me on that sort of level at all. It's not supposed to, though, so I certainly don't consider that a strike against the album. woj managed to score a copy of the "Jackie's Strength" single early (Bless you, Exile On Main St. :), and the b-sides on this one are the strongest she's put out since "Honey". It's also worth it for the videos - it comes with the videos for not only "Jackie's Strength" (which is okay) but "Raspberry Swirl" (which is, in a word, fucked up). And it doesn't cost any more for it, either, which is cool. Fred inquired: >Is anyone here familiar the the graphic art series called THE SANDMAN by NEIL >GAIMAN??? One of the characters is called DELERIUM. That was based on neils >good friend, tori amos. Theres a good reason for that. Just a niggling point: Delerium was a character in the Sandman series before Neil ever met Tori. However, there is no denying that the character became progressively more inspired by his encounters with Tori as time went on. :) +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V4 #326 **************************