From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V4 #321 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Saturday, September 12 1998 Volume 04 : Number 321 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Jane Siberry Question (AB SOUND) [neal copperman ] Re: heather nova (was: hole and bland) ["J." Wermont ] Sinead (Re: hole and bland ["Xenu's Sister" ] CAT POWER, PJH, TORI, BETH, w/ a little HAPPY thrown in. [irvin lin ] true confessions [Riphug@aol.com] Re: hole and bland [Stuart Myerburg ] New September Dates for Merrie Amsterburg [Michael Curry ] Re: heather nova (was: hole and bland) [Greg Dunn ] Re: true confessions [Michael Doyle ] Re: need advice on some singer/songwritesr [meredith ] sticking up for veda [meredith ] Re: sticking up for veda [JavaHo@aol.com] Re: sticking up for veda ["Xenu's Sister" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:12:28 -0600 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: Jane Siberry Question (AB SOUND) A bit ago Richard commented: >I am anxious to find out -- when I place this order I will not only have >more Jane S's but will also own every Veda Hille CD that I know about >(oh ... I can feel it coming ... someone's gotta post about some >rare Veda and I'll have to make *another* order! EWS EWS EWS!) I can't help myself, I've got to check your list.... Does it include the cassette only "songs about PEOPLE AND BUILDINGS" and the German import from the "WOMEN IN (E)MOTION FESTIVAL" series? Also, on a Jane front, has anyone ever compiled a list of everywhere you can find Jane? I'm amazed at how many places she shows up in my collection, but I know I'm missing some things. (Like that Barney CD. And I keep forgetting if anyone has ever said how her songs are on it. And Festival of Lights, the Hannukah disc.) I've got 21 Jane or Jane-related discs, which really amazed me. Outside of the ones attributed directly to her, this includes: David Massengill - The Return Hector Zazou - Songs from the Cold Seas U. Srinivas and Michael Brook - Dream Winter, Fire and Snow - Songs for the Holiday Season Until The End of the World Soundtrack Count Your Blessings Land of the Blind - One Eye (cover of Calling All Angels) The Crow (Soundtrack) Patty Larkin - Perishable Fruit Joe Jackson & Friends - Heaven and Hell So, other than the two I listed above, is there anything I'm missing? Neal np: Tiny Lights - Milky Juicy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:21:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: Re: heather nova (was: hole and bland) woj wrote: > i have a cool/warm relationship with heather's stuff. her albums, taking > _oyster_ as an example, tend to have an equal share of good songs ("mother > tongue") and blah songs ("walk this world"). Wow, you thought Walk This World was blah? I think it's the strongest and most melodic song on the album! I used to play that song over and over - couldn't resist that Beatles-y melody, harmony and arrangement. I also like the song Verona on that CD (2nd to last track, I think). It's not as structurally strong as Walk This World, but it does have some beautiful vocals. But the other songs on the album didn't grab me much. > anyways, for some reason i don't really understand, i was really looking > forward to _siren_, but was rather underwhelmed. i found it to be pretty > unchallenging record: the songwriting so-so, the musicianship bland, the > production slick. Now this I agree with. I was so unimpressed with it that I returned it for a store credit. (Which I used to buy Hole's Celebrity Skin, to tie in with the other part of the subject line. :) Like Eponine, I think it's a great pop-rock CD - no Live Through This, but great on its own terms.) Anyway, back to Siren, there wasn't a single song on it that really jumped out at me - they all sort of sounded the same to me. The songs were pretty, but in a vague sort of way with no drive or power. Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 03:34:40 -0500 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Sinead (Re: hole and bland At 11:54 PM 9/11/98 -0400, Joseph Zitt wrote: >Mark Lowry wrote: >> I'm surprised Sinead O'Connor isn't discussed more often. I think >> that woman has shown more brilliance than *any* of the artists >> discussed here (ok, besides KaTe > uppercase T thing now>), even more so than Happy and Tori (and it >> *pains* me to admit that). Neile -- why isn't she listed as one of >> the goddesses? Sinead's a goddess Mark, that's for sure. She certainly does get talked about. There are so many great artists out there that there's a cycle that happens. The best way to get an artist talked about is to bring her (or him, or them) up yourself. >IMHO, one problem is that she had one amazing, incredibly brilliant >album, then went off the tracks. Nothing she has done since has been >anywhere near "The Lion and the Cobra". MajormajormajorMAJOR disagreement with you there Joe. I think "Universal Mother" is one of the best albums ever recorded, by *anybody*. IM, of course, HO. Though I liked her, she wasn't in my Pantheon until that album. If you don't have it, get it. If you have it and haven't listened to it for a while, try it again. Try it a couple times. >She may have said all that she had to say with her first album, Ouch! Double ouch! Have you read the lyrics to Universal Mother? It's an extremely powerful album, musically, lyrically and vocally. Vickie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:47:01 -0700 From: irvin lin Subject: CAT POWER, PJH, TORI, BETH, w/ a little HAPPY thrown in. > Mark Lowry spaked about CAT POWER: > It's obvious that she hasn't had any voice or guitar training (by now > both should've improved). But that really shouldn't matter, it was > refreshing to hear someone so (seemingly) untrained still put out a > good record. She's credited with the songwriting, and I think there's > some pretty amazing examples of that (esp. the title track and "Nude > as the News"). actually do believe that KIM GORDON said something to the effect that she loved her voice, but thought she was kinda lazy, just riding on her natural talent. she wished that she would put herself at risk a little more, have a little more ambition. kinda interesting. what i read also sounds tres interesting to me...enough for me to pursue it next time i hit the local indie used store. eponine spaked: > In conclusion, Irvin, thank you for your input. In fact, you have > persuaded me to stay on this list. I will be a lonely voice against > Sarah!! (Actually, I thought the star of this list was nominally > Happy Rhodes, none of whose CDs I yet own. I had hoped to get some > recommendations from people about her recordings, but my request for > recs was ignored.) : ( rock on eponine. like others said, check out WARPAINT (which is still my fave) or RHODESONG (which is a great intro, and which was my first HAPPY CD). i can say that i am a bit hot/cold in my feelings towards HAPPY, (she certainly is NOT on the ectobland side of the spectrum, but her music just isn't always my aesthetic, other times she strikes it right home) but i have great expectations of her most recent album, and i certainly plan to pick it up. > Oh and by the way, Irvin, I think PJ Harvey is underrated by the > public. I bought 'To Bring You My Love' ... It's not cozy and it's > not meant to be. It is what it is for people who are in the mood for > something intelligent, sinister, depressed and depressing. It's a > portait of barely-controlled rage. It deserved a better fate. couldn't agree more. but if you want to hear a portrait of un-controlled rage, check out her first two albums. DRY and RID OF ME are complete and utterly incredible in their display of raw emotions. i'm sure you'll be able to appreciate her new album as well. it actually kinda reminds me of BJORK's HOMOGENIC in emotional mood. or maybe it is the production and electronic rhthyms that evoke the comparison. dunno. have to process and listen to it some more. and by the way, TEAR IN YOUR HAND is my absolute FAVORITE TORI song ever. one of the her songs that is SO underappreciated. i never see anyone site it as a favorite, but to me, it spoke volumns when i first heard it. more than anything on LE (well, i mean everything on LE spoke to me, but that one stood out the most). since i was completely turned off of TORI with her BOYS FOR PELE album (one only a few other people on this list who didn't like it, my loathing of it has been chronicled over and over again on this list and can be found in the ecto digest archives so i won't repeat why i think it should never have been released) i haven't picked up any of her singles since then (though i do like FROM THE CHOIRGIRL HOTEL, but not enough to invest another $20 for the dual set import singles). so no i have not heard COOLING (though i have heard a lot about it, what with her playing live before the album was released and such). by the way does anyone have the IMPORT version of FTCH and can tell me what that extra track is on it and if it is worth buying again for it (well not me, i wouldn't buy it again, but my friend rita, a HUGE tori fan, wants to know). now if anyone on this lists wants to make me a tape of BSIDES from the BFP and FTCH i certainly wouldn't complain. but i don't think i am willing to invest anymore in torisingles. (yes i have her early singles as well as other stuff to trade tori and otherwise...). and since i am not going to the full band concerts, a boot from one of her new shows would be fully appreciated too. one with TEAR IN YOUR HAND would be mucho appreciated! :) BUT really what i am looking for is a copy of a BETH ORTON show. she is really amazing live. anyone anyone? irvin ps. glad you chose to stick it out here EPONINE. welcome to ecto! :) always glad to amuse and entertain. np. IS THIS DESIRE? by ms. POLLY JEAN HARVEY nr. JEWEL's new york times best seller book of poetry. no no just kidding! i just finished ABOUT A BOY by NICK HORNBY and contemplating either reading THE ELEPHANT VANISHES by HARUKI MURAKAMI again or starting THROUGH THE ARC OF THE RAIN FOREST by KAREN TEI YAMASHITA. can anyone suggest some good CONTEMPORARY JAPANESE WRITERS? i have been on a JAPANESE CONTEMPORARY FICTION kick lately. finished THE WIND UP BIRD CHRONICLES by MURAKAMI (excellent) and reread KITCHEN by YOSHIMOTO (a fave). maybe i'll reread DREAM MESSENGER by MASAHIKO SHIMADA? hmmm.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:47:09 -0700 From: irvin lin Subject: the dirt on JULIANA, COURTNEY, MARY LOU, and LOIS joyce spaked: > >The Juliana Hatfield album is already out? Since when?? And how is it? > >Does it include a lot of the songs on that EP she released earlier this > >year? I didn't like the EP at all and in fact I returned it - a first > >for a Juliana recording. Would you compare it to Become What You Are/Only > >Everything, or is it more like the EP? i don't have the new JH album (which came out last week i think), (out on ZOE record, home of THE NIELDS, and sublabel to the indie folk/world label ROUNDER), but from what i hear, reviews are positive. the EP though is taken from a batch of songs that JH did before she wrote the songs that made it to her new one BED, and so they might be different in nature. from what i hear, her song writing has matured, as has her voice. of course from what i remember, the reviewer also liked the ep. but he did mention that the album is better than the ep. nothing from the EP made it onto the album, unless you were to get the japanese import version, that has both the complete album, the complete ep, plus two or three extra bonus tracks (and since i am going to japan this winter, i plan on just picking it up there in one fell swoop, along with the japanese import of practically everything that i have all my life looked for...boy am i going to be BROKE!) > irvin said (among many other things): > > > you might want to watch out about referring to HOLE as a RIOT GRRL > >band though. COURTNEY LOVE always hated that term and if she heard you > >mention it, in conjunction to her band, she might be liable to jump off > >her stage and chase after you (ala MARY LOU LORD). > > Um, did Courtney chase Mary Lou, or did Mary Lou chase someone? What's > the story here? COURTNEY LOVE chased MARY LOU. this was, i dunno, way back when, maybe four or five years ago. there has been a long time rivalry between the two, because MARY LOU LORD actually dated KURT COBAIN years ago, before he met COURTNEY. anyway COURTNEY has always hated MARY LOU because of it and for other unspecified neurosis of hers. (MARY LOU by the way, broke up with KURT not the other way around, but i think she ended up regretting it, and wanted to get back together, and by then COURTNEY was in the picture...and anyway it a big ole mess). so one time (this being post-KURT but pre-GOT NO SHADOWS or major labelness for MARY LOU) MARY LOU went to a HOLE concert (or some festival that HOLE was playing in at least). COURTNEY saw her in the audience, and jumped off the stage and chased her out of the club. anyway, my memory is kinda fuzzy about the w(HOLE) situation but in the end, what it meant was poor MARY LOU was famous for a bit because of her rivalry of ms LOVE and the fact that said LOVE stopped her set mid song to chase her out of the venue. then LORD started releasing her own 7"s and eps, and then she got signed to a major label, and got a lot of press, but the album didn't do that great commercially, which is a shame since it actually isn't all that bad. quite perky pop music, though a little over produced. bit of trivia there. here's a little more. MLL was (and quite possibly still is) very obsessed with KURT and COURTNEY thing. my friend renee (who used to be in the band BUNNYGRUNT) played the yo yo festival with MLL and said after MLL was done with her set, she proceeded outside to the sidewalk and played for about 4 to 5 hours more. 50% or more of her set outside were sangs that slagged LOVE (indirectly, or directly). listen to her eponymous EP MARY LOU LORD and you know she is singing and thinking about COURTNEY when she covers MATT KEATING's song THAT KIND OF GIRL. especially when she sings lines like "she can play the victim, she can victimize, she'll play you off her brother, right before your eyes, careful don't give her an inch, she'll take half your world, why does he love that kind of girl" (as a footnote: JULIANA HATFIELD guest appears on the ep. well worth checking out. for those who are JH fans.) still more trivia: MS COURTNEY really doesn't think all to fondly of her stay in OLYMPIA. anyone whose listened to the last song on LIVE THROUGH THIS (ROCK STAR) can observe this. but the feeling is pretty mutual. MS LOVE has had falling outs with not only MLL but also KATHLEEN HANNA from BIKINI KILL (they used to be in a band together) as well as her ex-roommate LOIS MAFFEO who wrote the songs HEY! ANTOINETTE about her (found on her ep/single SHY TOWN as well as her PEEL SESSIONS). "as she climbs the ladder of success, antoinette, doesn't care if all the boys, look up her dress" ouch! in fact LOIS hated COURTNEY so much after they were roommates, that her first band was named after her (check out old INTERNATIONAL POP FESTIVAL compilations to hear LOIS' first band called COURTNEY LOVE). and final bit of trivia, LOIS herself isn't all that loved either. listen to JENNY TOOMEY's band LIQUORICE album LISTENING CAP (which by the way is a fantastic album, a desert island disk for me, and one that i never tire of). the second song TEAM PLAYER is about LOIS. and that is all the dirt that i have on the indie rock scene. really. >- -- d., aspirant king of bitterness, reeling in shock that he knew >something about indie rock that IRVIN ;> didn't actually there is a hell of a lot of stuff about indie rock that i don't know. especially now that i am living in san fransisco. i left all my indie rock connections (the ones who knew all the dirt and all the bands and who to look out for) in st. louis. i've been out of it for awhile, and i am still in the middle of figuring out who or what the hell is going on out here in SF. anyone here in the bay area who can introduce me to the right pop kids? i just know enough to bluff my way into making everyone think that i am knowledgable. but get me up against a real scenester, and i dead meat. really. irvin, who realized that he is just full of completely useless information lately. thank god for the delete key eh? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 05:30:19 -0500 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Re: hole and bland At 08:40 PM 9/11/98 -0400, Jeff Wasilko wrote: >On Thu, Sep 10, 1998 at 11:42:32AM -0700, irvin lin wrote: >> np. VEDA HILLE: PATH OF A BODY. dunno about this. all this raving >> about her, i picked up the CD in the cheap bin and i still think it may >> be verging on that ectobland side of the spectrum for me. is SPINE a >> vast improvement over this one? > >Wow. That's the last way I'd expect to hear Veda described... Um, er, um, I have to agree with Irvin. Lisa was kind enough to give me a cassette of Spine, and I really wanted to like it, considering how many other Ectophiles think she's the cat's meow, but after 2 listens, I can't say it does anything for me. Some of the songs are good, but I have to be honest and say that I just don't like her voice. It isn't that it's weird or anything. I love some pretty weird voices (Victoria Williams, Betsy Martin, Alison Shaw, Diamanda Galas, etc.) but hers is just the opposite. Maybe it's different live or on other records, but on this particular one, it's ordinary to the point of being overly familiar. In other words, even though I had never heard Veda before, I'd heard her "voice" lots of times, actually back when I was searching the Olivia and Oliva-ish catalogs for something worth listening to. (And no, I can't come up with any names.) Her voice has a strident, "womyn's music" quality to it that rubs me the wrong way, has always rubbed me the wrong way, though the music is generally of a much higher quality and I assume the lyrics are better. I'll give it a couple more listens before passing the cassette on to someone else, and I'll also try the other albums. There are lots of artists who have one album I dislike and another album I love (Zoe is a *great* example) so I promise I won't judge her (or her voice) on just this one. If I change my mind (it has been known to happen) I'll certainly say so. But yeah, Spine to me so far is ectobland personified. Sorry meth and Neile. Vickie (who probably offended a lot of people with this post, sorry) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 07:40:51 EDT From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: true confessions Has anyone noticed that everyone's coming out of the closet and confessing their secret ecto *dislikes*? Wow! And here we thought we were one big ol' pizza (or some strange analogy like that ). Ok....then my turn....Even though I have bunches of her albums, I don't particularly like........KaTe BuSh! She kind of reminds me of Annie Lennox, which is not a bad thing......but I'd rather hear both of them on random play than listen to a whole album at one sitting. Please don't hate me... Jill :D *share the music!* (and keep your minds open) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:03:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Stuart Myerburg Subject: Re: hole and bland On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Xenu's Sister wrote: > Um, er, um, I have to agree with Irvin. Lisa was kind enough to > give me a cassette of Spine, and I really wanted to like it, considering > how many other Ectophiles think she's the cat's meow, but after > 2 listens, I can't say it does anything for me. Well, as long as everyone is coming out of the closet with their Ecto dislikes, I will agree with Vickie. I'm usually in complete agreement with the reviews of the Ectophiles who have raved about Veda Hille. But I just can't get into her. I bought _Spine_ when I was in Toronto last year and have listened to it at least 6 or 7 times. The music is interesting and far from bland, but it just doesn't click with me. Something about it leaves me completely cold. And, I hate the CD booklet art work. I also bought Emily Bezar's _Moon in Grenadine_ on the strength of Ecto reviews. I didn't get into that one either. I found her voice annoyingly operatic. It seemed very out of place in the songs. I love soaring female vocals, but Emily's seemed too showy. The music was also impossible for me to appreciate. I sold Emily because I knew I would never, ever like it. I still have Veda, since there is some potential there. I keep thinking one day it will click with me, but thus far it hasn't happened. Should I try something besides _Spine_? Stuart np: my cats fighting downstairs nr: Pale Fire - Vladimir Nabokov (but I'm almost done) _________________________________________________________ Stuart Myerburg Information Services, Rollins School of Public Health http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~stuart _________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:39:04 -0400 From: Michael Curry Subject: New September Dates for Merrie Amsterburg A few Merrie Amsterberg tour dates... and yes, if you've never heard any of her stuff seeing her live is a great way to get introduced to her music (something that can't be said about every artist). >X-Sender: labelmgr@pop.channel1.com >Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:27:43 -0400 >To: (Recipient list suppressed) >From: jsmyser@qdivision.com (Jessica Smyser) >Subject: New September Dates for Merrie Amsterburg > >Hello All... > >NEW!! > >Thursday, September 17th - The Bottom Line, 15 W. 4th St. New York, NY. >Part of the Nightbirds Series w/ The Burns Sisters and Debbie Schwartz two >sets at 7:30 & 10:30 $15 > >Saturday, September 26th - Tin Angel Philadelphia, PA w/ Freedy Johnston > >REMINDER > >Merrie plays tomorrow night, Saturday 9/12 at Maxwells in Hoboken w/ Freedy >Johnston > >**************************************************************************** >************ >If you get a chance check out the music site at http://www.Amazon.com . >It's pretty neat and it has every Q Division artist available for sale, >including Merrie. There is also a spot where you can type in your review of >any given record for everyone to see. > >Another cool site that features Merrie is http://www.Soundstone.com there >is also a link to this site form our web-site. > > >**************************************************************************** > Please visit our web site at http://www.qdivision.com > Q Division Records 443 Albany Street Boston, MA 02118 617-542-0081 >**************************************************************************** > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:38:55 -0500 From: Greg Dunn Subject: Re: heather nova (was: hole and bland) Oh goody -- a Heather Nova Thread! "J" wrote: :-) >woj wrote: > > > i have a cool/warm relationship with heather's stuff. her albums, taking > > _oyster_ as an example, tend to have an equal share of good songs ("mother > > tongue") and blah songs ("walk this world"). > >Wow, you thought Walk This World was blah? I think it's the strongest and >most melodic song on the album! I used to play that song over and over - >couldn't resist that Beatles-y melody, harmony and arrangement. I'm gonna take a third tack, though closer to woj's feelings. My absolute favorite Heather material is ALL recorded live. I place _Live At The Milky Way_ at the top of the "mass-market" HN albums I own simply because she takes her remarkable material and sheds the glossy, pop-y production for an earthy and honest presentation. It's a nice mix of thundering rock and delicate ballads. _Blow_ is a close second. I've paid close attention to Heather's producers over the years, and not surprisingly, Felix Tod (her bf, if I read correctly) comes the closest to capturing Heather's "real" musical persona. He does the majority of her live recordings, and even his studio work seems less schlocky than that of her other producers. Why did I say "mass-market"? Because I have a few imported multi-track single releases, low-volume stuff, that even whip _Milky Way_ for quality. There's a Japanese release of "Maybe An Angel" featuring 7 live tracks (produced by Felix) that is incredible, even for Heather. It's the source for the live version of "Blue Black", which rocks HARD, and an acoustic "Truth and Bone" and "Heal" which literally bring forth the tears. Absolutely essential for the HN collector. :-) BTW, there's a live "Walk This World" on this CD which is just Heather and (I think) Nadia playing cello. Delightful. That said, I'm a loner on the HN mailing list, because I find _Glow Stars_ haunting and beautiful; easily my fave studio effort (yes, also produced by Felix). "Frontier" stands out, but the whole album is very homogeneous yet full ranged. _Oyster_ is produced about 70% by Felix, though I'm less fond of his work in the studio as a rule. I first heard "Truth And Bone" acoustically, and the band version left me slack-jawed with confusion by the contrast. Can't say I don't like it, but it's hardly the same song. > > anyways, for some reason i don't really understand, i was really looking > > forward to _siren_, but was rather underwhelmed. i found it to be pretty > > unchallenging record: the songwriting so-so, the musicianship bland, the > > production slick. I love most of the music on _Siren_, but the overwhelming pop production values undermine several of the songs -- for example, "Heart And Shoulder": a beautiful ballad turned into a mockery of '80s pop by the thumping drum and jangling guitar. Sigh. Yes, I first heard it solo acoustic as well... Can't wait to see her live on this tour! - -- | Greg Dunn | I really think it's better this | | gregdunn@indy.net | way; the more you suffer, the | | GregDunn@aol.com | more you show you really care. | | http://www.indy.net/~gregdunn/ | The Offspring | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:52:55 -0400 From: Michael Doyle Subject: Re: true confessions At 07:40 AM 9/12/98 EDT, Riphug@aol.com wrote: >Ok....then my turn....Even though I have bunches of her albums, I don't >particularly like........KaTe BuSh! What?! >which is not a bad thing......but I'd rather hear both of them on random play >than listen to a whole album at one sitting. Impossible! I've tried listening to a CD player full of Kate Bush CDs on random play and found it a very unsatisfying experience. And more than once I've listened to _Hounds of Love_, sitting stock still, one end to the other. >Please don't hate me... I hate you. ;) Just kidding. It seems that every now and again ecto goes through these extremely healthy episodes wherein our differences in taste become apparent, challenging the apparent conformity. But when the day is done, we're all still here, because ecto is a community not a fan club. My true confessions? Well, name most of your ecto "goddesses" and I'll admit I don't care for them. I'm not into the female singer/songwriter kind of thing. I _am_ into female vocals, often coupled with dreamy, fuzzy, trippy kind of music (Cocteau Twins, early Lush, Portishead for example). So Jewel and Jane and Tori and Sarah just don't do much for me. np: nothing (for some reason, I never have anything playing when posting to ecto.) - - Mike Michael Doyle maeldun@i-2000.com =========================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:11:40 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: need advice on some singer/songwritesr Hi! I should be doing something productive. But hey, Yngve won't mind a non-vacuumed floor, will he? Nah. He didn't mind it the last time he was here. :) I wanted to add to what woj said about Joy Askew: >resurfaced in 1996 with a record, _tender city_, on the ex-label private >music. i'm kinda iffy on that record -- she has a powerful voice, but a >highly mannered singing and songwriting style. The closest comparison I can think of soundwise (and I know it's been said before), is Shona Laing. She sounds a *lot* like Shona Laing. I like Joy's music a lot better, though. And woj is right -- she's much better live. I still boggle at the fact that she opened for Happy. > +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:29:12 -0400 From: meredith Subject: sticking up for veda Hi! Okay, I'm sure this post will come as a surprise to no one. I'm also sure a lot of you will just delete it unread because you think it's impossible for me to be objective when it comes to the music of Veda Hille. But the truth is that I can totally see where everyone who's confessing to not being able to get into her is coming from. I felt the same way for a long time. I think woj pretty much summed up a lot of what I would have said to Irvin regarding his reaction to Veda. But Irvin, if Don Keller can love this album, there's got to be nothing at all bland about it -- he's got the lowest tolerance for blandness of anyone I've ever met. :) Were you really paying attention when you heard it? We had _Path Of A Body_ for well over a year before I ever really listened to it. woj had put it on quite a bit, but I was always doing something else and I never paid any attention to it. I wasn't wowed by it at all. Then we got _Spine_, and I didn't really like it all that much until one night I stopped and actually *listened* to "26 Years". This is I am So beautiful and fierce This is violence And holy words I immediately started the album over again and I realized just how wonderful it is. Then I really listened to _Path Of A Body_, and discovered that what sounded generic in the background was really a layered, offbeat work of art that unfolded itself in all sorts of wonderful ways. I actually listen to this album a lot more than I do _Spine_ - _Spine_ makes me uncomfortable when I listen to it, which isn't a bad thing, and I think it's a brilliant album even so. And I hate the artwork too. But artwork does not a good album make (hell, I've never been too fond of much of Happy's album artwork either). I just put it under something so I don't have to look at it. Vickie added: >Some of the songs >are good, but I have to be honest and say that I just don't like her >voice. >even though I had never heard Veda before, I'd heard >her "voice" lots of times, actually back when I was searching >the Olivia and Oliva-ish catalogs for something worth listening >to. (And no, I can't come up with any names.) Her voice has a >strident, "womyn's music" quality to it that rubs me the wrong >way, has always rubbed me the wrong way, though the music is >generally of a much higher quality and I assume the lyrics are better. Wow. Veda is about as far from "womyn's music" as I think you can get, her recent appearance at the Michigan Festival notwithstanding. It is true that there really isn't anything special about her voice -- but it's what she's singing and what's going on underneath it: that's where her brilliance lies. >I'll give it a couple more listens before passing the cassette on to >someone else, and I'll also try the other albums. There are lots of >artists who have one album I dislike and another album I love (Zoe >is a *great* example) so I promise I won't judge her (or her voice) >on just this one. I really do think you'll like _Path Of A Body_ much better. She does more with her voice, and the music is a lot easier on the ears (see my comments above), though far, far, *far* from being "bland". >If I change my mind (it has been known to happen) >I'll certainly say so. Ah, yes. I seem to recall a certain artist named Tori Amos that you vilified in the pages of rec.music.gaffa a few years back... ;) >But yeah, Spine to me so far is ectobland personified. >Sorry meth and Neile. Nothing to be sorry about ... except I'm still boggling that the word "bland" could possibly be used to describe anything about the album _Spine_. If that's bland, then what is ??? I guess what all this is saying is, sometimes it takes time. I went from an "eh" reaction to Veda, to her becoming my supreme musical goddess. Seeing her perform live helps, too. She is simply one of the best live performers I have ever seen. Irvin, she'll be in San Francisco with the Scrappy Bitch Tour on September 30 (venue T.B.A., if I find out I'll post it here). I'm sure she'll make it to Chicago sometime, in which case, Vickie, you really should go. I can probably even get you on the guest list so there will be no risk to you. I'll shut up now. +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 15:12:59 EDT From: JavaHo@aol.com Subject: Re: sticking up for veda meth confesses: << _Spine_ makes me uncomfortable when I listen to it, which isn't a bad thing, and I think it's a brilliant album even so >> When I gave the cassette to Vickie, I tried to put into words what I thought of it. It wasn't easy. I think I came up with something like "disturbing" and a few other related feelings. I think meth put it better, though, because I feel uncomfortable when listening to it. After reading post after post raving about her, I was anxious to hear her music, and I have to say that I was unprepared for what I heard. I'm not sure what I was expecting, but that wasn't it. Her voice was nothing like I thought it would be, and the songs seemed...well...depressing. BUT...I still thought it was very intelligent and emotional music. For me it definitely evokes an intensely intellectual/emotional response...just not a happy, pleasant one. To this day, I cannot listen to Bellyfish. Makes me want to slit my wrists. I guess my overall opinion is that she is very good, and her music is highly intelligent and haunting. I just can't listen to her any old time, though. I have to be in a certain frame of mind or it just pushes me into a funk. Interesting thread. Can't wait to hear more...Java ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 15:06:55 -0500 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Re: sticking up for veda At 02:29 PM 9/12/98 -0400, meredith wrote: ... >We had _Path Of A Body_ for well over a year before I ever really listened >to it. woj had put it on quite a bit, but I was always doing something >else and I never paid any attention to it. I wasn't wowed by it at all. >Then we got _Spine_, and I didn't really like it all that much until one >night I stopped and actually *listened* to "26 Years". Well, I had the same sort of experience with Jane's The Speckless Sky. Chris was a huge fan and I didn't pay much attention to it until I saw a great interview with her, then really listened to "Vladimir Vladimir" and realized what a genius she was. But then, I always liked Jane's voice and that wasn't something I had to get over. >Wow. Veda is about as far from "womyn's music" as I think you can get, her >recent appearance at the Michigan Festival notwithstanding. Why am I thinking "why am I not surprised?" But of course, Jane played there too, and I looooove Jane. > It is true >that there really isn't anything special about her voice -- but it's what >she's singing and what's going on underneath it: that's where her >brilliance lies. I just listened to it again, the 3rd time, and I'll give you that she's got an imagination sorely lacking in most artists. Her voice wasn't quite as painful to listen to on some songs, the more interesting songs. I don't know titles yet though. >I really do think you'll like _Path Of A Body_ much better. She does more >with her voice, and the music is a lot easier on the ears (see my comments >above), though far, far, *far* from being "bland". I'm game. >>If I change my mind (it has been known to happen) >>I'll certainly say so. > >Ah, yes. I seem to recall a certain artist named Tori Amos that you >vilified in the pages of rec.music.gaffa a few years back... ;) Not vilified, but I didn't trust her talent and said so. Remember, I'd had Y Kant Tori Read since before it was released (I got a promo for my radio show) and couldn't tell which Tori was the "real" Tori, and suspected that Little Earthquakes might be more the result of an imaginative producer than Tori herself. I found out the truth though, the first time I saw her perform live at Schubas, and have been a besotted fan ever since. >>But yeah, Spine to me so far is ectobland personified. >>Sorry meth and Neile. > >Nothing to be sorry about ... except I'm still boggling that the word >"bland" could possibly be used to describe anything about the album >_Spine_. If that's bland, then what is artist here>??? We're talking "ecto artists" here, not top-40 artists. *Most* ecto artists are already quite a few levels above the mainstream, so that's where I start the bar. Perhaps my dislike of her voice is overly coloring my perception of the music. It's certainly not your average strumming girl with guitar bland. I guess I need to think hard about what *I* mean by bland and try and put it into words. >Irvin, she'll be in San Francisco with the Scrappy Bitch Tour on >September 30 (venue T.B.A., if I find out I'll post it here). >I'm sure she'll make it to Chicago sometime, in which case, >Vickie, you really should go. I can probably even get you on the guest >list so there will be no risk to you. I'll take you up on that, even though I hatedespiseabhor it when women use "Bitch" as if it's oh so clever and they're "taking back" the word. Ok, so Veda's on her Scrappy Female Dog Tour. Nice that she's an animal lover. :-) I'm not trying to be difficult, or alienate you meth (I think you're more wonderful than words can express) but as long as we're laying our cards out there, I have to throw out the name of another band that's seemingly loved by all on ecto that I just don't like: The Neilds. I listened to Gotta Get Over Greta yet again this morning and it didn't do a thing for me. I have it and 66 Hoxsey St. (bought that when it was first released) and can't get into them. I *can* understand how they could be way way way more fun and interesting live than on record though, but I've never seen them. The last time they were here in Chicago they played The House of Blues, which is too expensive and trendy for me, so I didn't even consider going. Can you get me on their guest list? :-) Vickie . ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V4 #321 **************************