From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V4 #319 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Friday, September 11 1998 Volume 04 : Number 319 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: a different view on Happy ["C. K. Coney" ] Cat Power (was Re: PJ HARVEY and LIZ PHAIR) [dmw ] Re: Museum of Television & Radio?? [jjh969@juno.com (John J Henshon)] hole and bland [irvin lin ] Re: hole and bland [Eponine ] juliana hatfield ["J." Wermont ] Best Fares NewsDesk ["C. K. Coney" ] Re: Cat Power (and PJ HARVEY) [Mark Lowry ] Re: hole and bland [Jeff Wasilko ] Re: hole and bland [Jeff Wasilko ] Re: hole and bland [Mark Lowry ] heather nova (was Re: hole and bland) [pauly on the shore ] veda hille [pauly on the shore ] Re: need advice on some singer/songwritesr [pauly on the shore ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:10:02 -0700 From: "C. K. Coney" Subject: Re: a different view on Happy Joanna M. Phillips wrote: > If you are talking about singers who sing in an emotional *way*, then to me > that often means performers who sacrifice musicality and understandability > for some kind of vocal flailing around that I don't really appreciate. In > fact, it's downright embarrassing sometimes. I suppose you could say that > Happy's music is more cerebral...but it's *not* devoid of feeling, by a > long shot! She just isn't a screamer...I wouldn't put one of her albums on > (for the first time) and try to do something else at the same time and > expect to be hit over the head by something. I find the best way to listen, > for the first time, is in quietness, with full attention, and attention to > lyrics. To me, it's her use of lyrics, melody, layering, mood, and (a lot > of the time) Kevin's basslines that all combine to give the feeling to > Happy's songs. > Yes, I agree with Fleur! (Although I very much respect Joyce's opinions.) I myself see a gradual progression in Happy's emoting from her early work on, there's plenty of emoting to go around along with her vocal and arranging technique, her range and control. So Fleur, I haven't seen your review of MWABT here? Did you receive it yet? I'd love to hear what ya have to say! Peace, Carol C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:40:03 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Cat Power (was Re: PJ HARVEY and LIZ PHAIR) On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, irvin lin inquired: > ps. can anyone tell me who or what CAT POWER is? KIM GORDON mentioned > them in the article where she conversed with LIZ PHAIR. said she loved > CAT POWER's voice. got me curious.... i did a wee review of their first in my micro capsule phase, to wit: Cat Power Myra Lee [B+] (Smells Like, 1996) Recorded and Mixed by Edward Douglas Personnel: Chan Marshall; Tim Foljahn; Steve Shelley this low key, brooding record reminds me a good bit of early Throwing muses, although a little less frenetic, with chords not quite as strange, and with enough of a twang to some of the guitar parts that the Hank Williams (senior, thanks) cover seems perfectly appropriate. - --- i likes the rest of their stuff too, though i never wrote about any of them. cat power is bascially just chan marshall (guitar, vocals); the astute will note that steve shelley drums in at least one of kim gordon's band. - -- d., aspirant king of bitterness, reeling in shock that he knew something about indie rock that IRVIN ;> didn't np micron's damned hold recording ps cdnow allus done right be me, although their track record of actually getting all of the imports they list is not all that great. - - oh,no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmayowel@access.digex.net - - and dmw@mwmw.com ... get yr pathos at http://www.pathetic-caverns.com/ - - new reviews! tunes, books, flicks, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:49:44 -0500 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Due South fans!! Wonderful news for old and potential fans alike (at least, those in the USA), TNT, Turner Network Television, has started re-runs of the series Due South. I just found out about it, so I missed a few episodes so far. TNT is a cable channel, so I know not everyone can receive it, but I hope those of you who can, will check out the show. Besides being funny, sweet, wry and offbeat, it has the greatest music. The person who put together the soundtracks (the show and the CD soundtracks, 2 so far) really had an ectophilic bent. They were playing Sarah in the show when few people outside Canada (besides ectophiles) knew who she was. They've played artists ranging from Holly Cole to Figgy Duff to Single Gun Theory to Tara MacLean. The Pilot movie has already aired, but will be repeated. They split it into 2 parts and it was shown on Tuesday and Wednesday, but the first part will be repeated tomorrow, Saturday the 12th, and the 2nd part will be repeated next Saturday, the 19th. 11 am ET/PT, 10 am Central. I saw the Pilot movie when it first aired and was hooked then. The listing in the TV Guide back then made it sound particularly corny (Canadian Mountie with pet wolf experiences culture shock when re-assigned to Chicago and begins working with Chicago cops) but we watched it because we'll give anything that has to do with Chicago a chance. Well, we really just wanted to see what Chicago locations they used. We were plesantly suprised to find that we really liked the series, loved the characters, were gaga over the music, and would have continued watching the series even if it hadn't been set in our wonderful city. The show has a gentle, bizarre humor that could only have come from Canada, and I mean that in the absolute nicest possible way. The show itself is shown every day at 4 pm ET/PT, 3 Central. They're starting where they should, in the first season, and that's the season where the most 'Ectophilic' music was played, including an episode featuring Holly Cole performing live. The lastest season has been shown in a syndicated version and is still showing here in Chicago. Here's a web site that lists the stations showing the most recent season: http://www.duesouth.com/station/usa/midwest-text.html TNT's Due South page, with schedules of the first season: http://www.tnt-tv.com/action/duesouth/ Vickie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:06:41 -0400 From: jjh969@juno.com (John J Henshon) Subject: Re: Museum of Television & Radio?? I called the Museum twice, the first time last week, and was told that they didn't know anything about it. I called again yesterday, and this time they seemed pretty insistent, having gotten several Ecto inquiries, that it was not happening. I hope they are wrong. John On Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:00:14 -0700 "C. K. Coney" writes: > >DaveRaver@aol.com wrote: >> I called the Museum of Television & Radio (New York City) and inquired as to >> whether Happy Rhodes was actually performing there on October 8. They knew >> nothing about it. I had a feeling it didn't sound right. How did this rumor get started >>anyway? > >I just got back to town from almost a week away...and I'm thrilled that the tour >is officially on and some dates are confirmed. Thank you Terra Incognita and >Vickie and everyone who posted via email & their websites with this timely info, >which really helps out-of-towners in planning and budgeting! Well, the tour dates >aren't really rumor at this point, but there are still discrepancies. >Maybe it's possible that the venues just don't have the dates in their own >systems. I checked Painted Bride's website again, and it hasn't been updated to >reflect Happy's show. I do intend to call them tonight & will report back what >I hear. It's not unusual for websites to lag behind in the updating...although >you'd think that as soon as a date is confirmed, at least their calendar >webpages announcing shows would be updated...it helps move those ticket sales, >right? I also noticed that Samson Music has not updated their Happy tourdates >link, but hopefully that's coming real soon too! > >I'm hoping to attend both the NYC and Philly shows. Can anyone tell me >the best train company with frequent runs between NY and Philly? Also, is there >a decent hotel or B & B near where the Painted Bride is located? (I've only >been to Philly once, which is weird, I guess, for a native of Pittsburgh!) > >Thanks in advance for any tips! > >Carol _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:42:32 -0700 From: irvin lin Subject: hole and bland Eponine said: >P.S. I'm so happy to hear Hole come up in conversation on this list. >Since I joined the list two weeks ago it seems everyone here is >prepared to vote canonization for the interminably bland Sarah >McLachlan. Iiiiicccchhhhh!! (OK- - please no hate mail. I plan to >unsubscribe from this list.) i hope you aren't planning on unsubscribing just because people like Sarah! granted there are those singers that are discussed on this list that make me want to yawn and fall asleep, but on the whole this has been one of the best mailing lists that i have been on in the whole 7+ years i have been on the 'net. you will probably find, if you stick around, that there is a lot of variety in musical tastes, ranging from what you called the "bland" SARAH (though in my opinion, nothing gets more bland than ENYA, another artist that has been canonized on this list) to the more rockin' stuff like HOLE, LIZ PHAIR (alright, i think i may be one of the few liz phans on this list, but whatever), GARBAGE, PJ HARVEY, SLEATER KINNEY, AIMEE MANN, THROWING MUSES, JULIANA HATFIELD, the BREEDERS, ANI DIFRANCO, and many many others. often these bands are referred to as "crunchy" bands here on ecto. if anything, stick around please feel free to bring up bands to discuss. whether it is the latest HOLE album, that new BIKINI KILL compilation, or the recently released JULIANA HATFIELD new album. i would hate to see this list fall into the hands of those who only listen to the ectobland spectrum of ecto. no one will email you hate mail, though they might write a full lengthy email about how much sarah is not bland, but rather quite brilliant, and what you might have misinterpreted as bland, is rather just the result of a commercially successful overplayed overhyped album that is (in a lot of people opinions here) subpar to her earlier more powerful work. or you might just get emails that say "right on grrl! sarah sucks! lilith can bite me!" or something a little more intelligent like "i fully agree with you and i am SOOOO glad someone mentioned it on this list. SARAH really is BORING. from an artist who went from sophmoric bad pop music (TOUCH) to even worse commercial muzak (SURFACING) that is more appropriately heard in an elevator than in anyone's stereo, there really isn't a reason why she should be listed in the cannon of "goddesses" of ecto-land. and perhaps the list of ecto goddesses should be a little more indicative of the opinions on this list, as opposed to those who just write the longest or the most on the list!" you never know what you will get on ecto. that is what makes this list so great. you might want to watch out about referring to HOLE as a RIOT GRRL band though. COURTNEY LOVE always hated that term and if she heard you mention it, in conjunction to her band, she might be liable to jump off her stage and chase after you (ala MARY LOU LORD). so stick around for a little while longer and check it out. give ecto a chance to show its full diverse colors. differing and diverse opinions on this list is actually the reason that i have stuck with this list for so long. no one will send you hate mail, and there has been a long standing policy of NON FLAMING that actually is adhered to here on the list (well 98.5% of the time). amazing as that is. anyway. just thought i would stick my unrequested two cents in. irvin np. VEDA HILLE: PATH OF A BODY. dunno about this. all this raving about her, i picked up the CD in the cheap bin and i still think it may be verging on that ectobland side of the spectrum for me. is SPINE a vast improvement over this one? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:59:37 -0500 From: Eponine Subject: Re: hole and bland Dear Irvin, Omigod, I just to work and read your e-mail and I am cracking up!! I had to reach for a tissue to dab my eyes as they were watering and the whole mascara-and-teary-eyes thing was happening due to laughing out loud! Thanks for your very funny and supportive message. I didn't unsubscribe yesterday because I thought I should wait and take my hate mail (politically correct euphemism: negative feedback) like a man (even though I'm a woman). I haven't read all the postings yet, but it looks like pretty much everyone just decided to ignore me. I got one e-mail sent to just me, not the whole list, agreeing about Sarah and even comparing her to Celine Dion, as in a "voice" fronting innocuous music. ("Innocuous" is my word, not his, and maybe it's not the right word because Celine's music, is, to me, so agressively boring with that voice that is so demanding and shrill that it actually provokes a feeling of rage within me!!) But the comparision is funny to me personally because one of my friends actually loves Celine Dion, and even she thinks Sarah McLachlan is bland!! Now THAT'S a slam!! The truth is though that I never really was a Riot Grrrl; I just demand that my music have some sort of passion, conviction, point of view, a sense of the artist's urgent need to express. But I really am, in my core, an ole softy. I like something beautiful as much as anyone: a string quartet in a minor key, preferably from the Romantic period, can get me every time. Also, my very favorite artists; Katie Bush and Myra Ellen "Tori" Amos, definitely have their soft, VERY soft, sides. I mean, Tori in "Tear in Your Hand". The whole song, but especially when she gets to "maybe it's time to wave goodbye now...". Wow. Would could be simpler, quieter, more beautiful? It's a moment where the listener can really feel the heaviness of resignation. And d'ya know her song "Cooling"? Nothing could be more beautiful. Tender, musically lovely, simple and simply extraordinary. So I'm just saying I'm not some ass-kicking chick who only likes hard music and has stumbled by mistake into the wrong place. I just dislike Sarah, and the whole "cult of Sarah" has just so gotten on my nerves over the years that I CANNOT hold it in any longer!! Oh and by the way, Irvin, I think PJ Harvey is underrated by the public. She is a "critics' darling" who doesn't seem to sell any records!! I bought 'To Bring You My Love' because of what music critics whom I respect siad about it, and -WOW! - they weren't kidding!! It's incredible. I mean, it's not a record one can really warm up to. It's not cozy and it's not meant to be. It is what it is for people who are in the mood for something intelligent, sinister, depressed and depressing. It's a portait of barely-controlled rage. A postal worker on the verge!! Not something to appeal to every tasete but still, it SHOULD have sold better than it did. It deserved a better fate. In conclusion, Irvin, thank you for your input. In fact, you have persuaded me to stay on this list. I will be a lonely voice against Sarah!! (Actually, I thought the star of this list was nominally Happy Rhodes, none of whose CDs I yet own. I had hoped to get some recommendations from people about her recordings, but my request for recs was ignored.) : ( P.S. Doesn't Heather Nova ever come up in conversation? She is worthy of SO MUCH MORE attention than she has gotten. I just don't understand that at all. I mean, she's even pretty. She's got the whole package: she's cover-of-Rolling-Stone material in every way. Love, Eponine irvin lin wrote: > Eponine said: > > >P.S. I'm so happy to hear Hole come up in conversation on this list. >Since I joined the list two weeks ago it seems everyone here is >prepared to vote canonization for the interminably bland Sarah >McLachlan. Iiiiicccchhhhh!! (OK- - please no hate mail. I plan to >unsubscribe from this list.) > > i hope you aren't planning on unsubscribing just because people like > Sarah! granted there are those singers that are discussed on this list > that make me want to yawn and fall asleep, but on the whole this has > been one of the best mailing lists that i have been on in the whole 7+ > years i have been on the 'net. > > you will probably find, if you stick around, that there is a lot of > variety in musical tastes, ranging from what you called the "bland" > SARAH (though in my opinion, nothing gets more bland than ENYA, another > artist that has been canonized on this list) to the more rockin' stuff > like HOLE, LIZ PHAIR (alright, i think i may be one of the few liz phans > on this list, but whatever), GARBAGE, PJ HARVEY, SLEATER KINNEY, AIMEE > MANN, THROWING MUSES, JULIANA HATFIELD, the BREEDERS, ANI DIFRANCO, and > many many others. often these bands are referred to as "crunchy" bands > here on ecto. > > if anything, stick around please feel free to bring up bands to > discuss. whether it is the latest HOLE album, that new BIKINI KILL > compilation, or the recently released JULIANA HATFIELD new album. i > would hate to see this list fall into the hands of those who only listen > to the ectobland spectrum of ecto. > > no one will email you hate mail, though they might write a full lengthy > email about how much sarah is not bland, but rather quite brilliant, and > what you might have misinterpreted as bland, is rather just the result > of a commercially successful overplayed overhyped album that is (in a > lot of people opinions here) subpar to her earlier more powerful work. > > or you might just get emails that say "right on grrl! sarah sucks! > lilith can bite me!" or something a little more intelligent like "i > fully agree with you and i am SOOOO glad someone mentioned it on this > list. SARAH really is BORING. from an artist who went from sophmoric > bad pop music (TOUCH) to even worse commercial muzak (SURFACING) that is > more appropriately heard in an elevator than in anyone's stereo, there > really isn't a reason why she should be listed in the cannon of > "goddesses" of ecto-land. and perhaps the list of ecto goddesses should > be a little more indicative of the opinions on this list, as opposed to > those who just write the longest or the most on the list!" you never > know what you will get on ecto. that is what makes this list so great. > > you might want to watch out about referring to HOLE as a RIOT GRRL band > though. COURTNEY LOVE always hated that term and if she heard you > mention it, in conjunction to her band, she might be liable to jump off > her stage and chase after you (ala MARY LOU LORD). > > so stick around for a little while longer and check it out. give ecto a > chance to show its full diverse colors. differing and diverse opinions > on this list is actually the reason that i have stuck with this list for > so long. no one will send you hate mail, and there has been a long > standing policy of NON FLAMING that actually is adhered to here on the > list (well 98.5% of the time). amazing as that is. > > anyway. just thought i would stick my unrequested two cents in. > > irvin > > np. VEDA HILLE: PATH OF A BODY. dunno about this. all this raving > about her, i picked up the CD in the cheap bin and i still think it may > be verging on that ectobland side of the spectrum for me. is SPINE a > vast improvement over this one? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:43:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: juliana hatfield Irvin said: > if anything, stick around please feel free to bring up bands to > discuss. whether it is the latest HOLE album, that new BIKINI KILL > compilation, or the recently released JULIANA HATFIELD new album. The Juliana Hatfield album is already out? Since when?? And how is it? Does it include a lot of the songs on that EP she released earlier this year? I didn't like the EP at all and in fact I returned it - a first for a Juliana recording. Would you compare it to Become What You Are/Only Everything, or is it more like the EP? Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 20:08:42 -0700 From: "C. K. Coney" Subject: Best Fares NewsDesk AirTran has announced an extension of its fall season airfare sale. It's sure to be matched by the major airlines in AirTran markets. This is a good way to get to Philly cheaply for Happy's concert next month. Check out this website for details and sample cities/fares. Carol http://www.bestfares.com/newsdesk/stories98.9/n21865.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 19:24:13 -0500 From: Mark Lowry Subject: Re: Cat Power (and PJ HARVEY) On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, irvin lin inquired: > > ps. can anyone tell me who or what CAT POWER is? KIM GORDON mentioned > them in the article where she conversed with LIZ PHAIR. said she loved CAT > POWER's voice. got me curious.... > dmw responded: > this low key, brooding record reminds me a good bit of early Throwing muses, > although a little less frenetic, with chords not quite as strange, and with > enough of a twang to some of the guitar parts that the Hank Williams (senior, > thanks) cover seems perfectly appropriate. i likes the rest of their stuff too, > though i never wrote about any of them. cat power is bascially just chan marshall > (guitar, vocals); the astute will note that steve shelley drums in at least one > of kim gordon's band. This was so weird. When I got home from work today, I walked in and put Cat Power's _What Would the Community Think_ in the player, then fed/petted my cats Puck and Oberon, then turned on the 'puter and found this post. WWTCT was one of my favorite albums of 1996, right up there with PJ's _To Bring You My Love_ (which, by the way, I think is her most brilliant album -- it's blues for the millennium -- but _Rid of Me_ is my personal favorite for more visceral reasons). I don't own _Myra Lee_, Cat Power's first. The new album _Moon Pix_ is due Sept 22, I'm looking forward to it. I had a phone interview with Chan Marshall to write a story in conjunction with her playing a small Fort Worth club. It was an interesting interview, as it was *very* obvious that she was drugged out of her mind. The concert was no of no impact to me since, just like on record, she's extremely lo-fi and often seems disinterested. It's obvious that she hasn't had any voice or guitar training (by now both should've improved). But that really shouldn't matter, it was refreshing to hear someone so (seemingly) untrained still put out a good record. She's credited with the songwriting, and I think there's some pretty amazing examples of that (esp. the title track and "Nude as the News"). Basically, the band formed formed because someone, I think it was Steve Shelley (who is Sonic Youth's drummer, or at least was on the earlier albums), thought she was cool and should try singing. And they just started a band, got signed (obviously Shelley had connections), and put out some pretty good records. So, does it matter whether an artist has had formal music training? It mean, it shows through in Happy and Tori's music, but there's bound to be a slue of other artists who put out (at least) decent music, and their career started because they happened to be friends with the right people, or maybe just happened into a band, or a gig or whatever. Can't think of any good examples right now, except the Sex Pistols -- but there were so many other factors involved in that case. But yeah, I recommed Cat Power. Doug's review was right on. Very lo-fi, brooding and with a bit of a twang. If I remember correctly, she was weened on C&W. Thanks Doug for the reminder, I need to pick up _Myra Lee_, and the new one in a couple of weeks. Mark Lowry n.p. _What Would the Community Think_ n.r. _Dr. Seuss & Mr. Geisel_, Judith and Neil Morgan. I know it came out several years ago, but a friend of mine -- who really is a cousin of the late Dr. -- passed it along. He said it's mostly a load of crap, but a good read nonetheless. reading next: _Red Lobster, White Trash and the Blue Lagoon_ by Joe Queenan. Hear it's a funny commentary on how America often settles for mediocrity. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 20:40:40 -0400 From: Jeff Wasilko Subject: Re: hole and bland On Thu, Sep 10, 1998 at 11:42:32AM -0700, irvin lin wrote: > you will probably find, if you stick around, that there is a lot of > variety in musical tastes, ranging from what you called the "bland" > SARAH (though in my opinion, nothing gets more bland than ENYA, another > artist that has been canonized on this list) to the more rockin' stuff > like HOLE, LIZ PHAIR (alright, i think i may be one of the few liz phans I picked up Liz's latest, and like it quite a bit. I bought her first CD, but it never really did much for me. I think I should go back and listen to it (I'm glad I don't trade in CDs that don't grab me right away...I've come back to stuff years later...) Also, the Liz Phair list "Support-System" has moved to new digs at smoe.org. See http://www.smoe.org/lists/support-system.info for info... > np. VEDA HILLE: PATH OF A BODY. dunno about this. all this raving > about her, i picked up the CD in the cheap bin and i still think it may > be verging on that ectobland side of the spectrum for me. is SPINE a > vast improvement over this one? Wow. That's the last way I'd expect to hear Veda described... You should probably get your browser over to http://www.n0place.com/veda and listen the samples there (though the samples from Spine don't seem to be working). Check out http://www.n0place.com/veda/ram/picture/15years.ram to hear her crunchier side... - -Jeff N.P.: Veda Hille, Here is a Picture ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 20:54:33 -0400 From: Jeff Wasilko Subject: Re: hole and bland Hi: Could you check your mail client and see if you could get it to break paragraphs into lines less than 80 character? It's really hard to reply to messages when each paragraph is one long, huge line (-: On Fri, Sep 11, 1998 at 09:59:37AM -0500, Eponine wrote: > > In conclusion, Irvin, thank you for your input. In fact, you have persuaded me to stay on this list. I will be a lonely voice against Sarah!! (Actually, I thought the star of this list was nominally Happy Rhodes, none of whose CDs I yet own. I had hoped to get some recommendations from people about > her recordings, but my request for recs was ignored.) : ( One thing about us ectophiles is that we tend to be a bit slow in reading list-mail...Me, I've got about 8000 messages in my inbox right now. So don't take it personally if folks are a bit slow to reply... I seem to recall some recent discussion where folks were recommending her CDs... I think RhodeSongs is a good place to start, as it gives perspective on her career. You should probably take a look at the Ectophile's Guide to Good Music, which contains reviews and commentary from this list. It's a wonderful project led by Neile Graham and Damon Harper (with contributions from lots of ectophiles). The guide is at: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ > > P.S. Doesn't Heather Nova ever come up in conversation? She is worthy of SO MUCH MORE attention than she has gotten. I just don't understand that at all. I mean, she's even pretty. She's got the whole package: she's cover-of-Rolling-Stone material in every way. Agreed. I think you'll find alot of the artists discussed here are in the same vein. Take a look at the Alphabetical listing at the Ectophiles guide and see if you agree with me (-: - -Jeff N.P. Eva Trout, Beautiful South > > Love, > > Eponine > > > > > > irvin lin wrote: > > > Eponine said: > > > > >P.S. I'm so happy to hear Hole come up in conversation on this list. >Since I joined the list two weeks ago it seems everyone here is >prepared to vote canonization for the interminably bland Sarah >McLachlan. Iiiiicccchhhhh!! (OK- - please no hate mail. I plan to >unsubscribe from this list.) > > > > i hope you aren't planning on unsubscribing just because people like > > Sarah! granted there are those singers that are discussed on this list > > that make me want to yawn and fall asleep, but on the whole this has > > been one of the best mailing lists that i have been on in the whole 7+ > > years i have been on the 'net. > > > > you will probably find, if you stick around, that there is a lot of > > variety in musical tastes, ranging from what you called the "bland" > > SARAH (though in my opinion, nothing gets more bland than ENYA, another > > artist that has been canonized on this list) to the more rockin' stuff > > like HOLE, LIZ PHAIR (alright, i think i may be one of the few liz phans > > on this list, but whatever), GARBAGE, PJ HARVEY, SLEATER KINNEY, AIMEE > > MANN, THROWING MUSES, JULIANA HATFIELD, the BREEDERS, ANI DIFRANCO, and > > many many others. often these bands are referred to as "crunchy" bands > > here on ecto. > > > > if anything, stick around please feel free to bring up bands to > > discuss. whether it is the latest HOLE album, that new BIKINI KILL > > compilation, or the recently released JULIANA HATFIELD new album. i > > would hate to see this list fall into the hands of those who only listen > > to the ectobland spectrum of ecto. > > > > no one will email you hate mail, though they might write a full lengthy > > email about how much sarah is not bland, but rather quite brilliant, and > > what you might have misinterpreted as bland, is rather just the result > > of a commercially successful overplayed overhyped album that is (in a > > lot of people opinions here) subpar to her earlier more powerful work. > > > > or you might just get emails that say "right on grrl! sarah sucks! > > lilith can bite me!" or something a little more intelligent like "i > > fully agree with you and i am SOOOO glad someone mentioned it on this > > list. SARAH really is BORING. from an artist who went from sophmoric > > bad pop music (TOUCH) to even worse commercial muzak (SURFACING) that is > > more appropriately heard in an elevator than in anyone's stereo, there > > really isn't a reason why she should be listed in the cannon of > > "goddesses" of ecto-land. and perhaps the list of ecto goddesses should > > be a little more indicative of the opinions on this list, as opposed to > > those who just write the longest or the most on the list!" you never > > know what you will get on ecto. that is what makes this list so great. > > > > you might want to watch out about referring to HOLE as a RIOT GRRL band > > though. COURTNEY LOVE always hated that term and if she heard you > > mention it, in conjunction to her band, she might be liable to jump off > > her stage and chase after you (ala MARY LOU LORD). > > > > so stick around for a little while longer and check it out. give ecto a > > chance to show its full diverse colors. differing and diverse opinions > > on this list is actually the reason that i have stuck with this list for > > so long. no one will send you hate mail, and there has been a long > > standing policy of NON FLAMING that actually is adhered to here on the > > list (well 98.5% of the time). amazing as that is. > > > > anyway. just thought i would stick my unrequested two cents in. > > > > irvin > > > > np. VEDA HILLE: PATH OF A BODY. dunno about this. all this raving > > about her, i picked up the CD in the cheap bin and i still think it may > > be verging on that ectobland side of the spectrum for me. is SPINE a > > vast improvement over this one? > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 20:06:37 -0500 From: Mark Lowry Subject: Re: hole and bland Eponine lovingly wrote to Dear Irvin: > One of my friends actually loves Celine Dion, and even she thinks Sarah McLachlan is bland!! Now THAT'S a slam!! You're not kidding! Sarah is such a great example of someone who I once loved and have become so bored with. And believe, me, it's not because of Lilith's success or her sudden popularity or anything like that -- cuz I would love for Happy to get famous and be played on all the radio stations. It's just that _Surfacing_ seems so passionless compared to _Solace_ or even _Touch_. _FTE_ has its moments, but that's definitely where I started growing disinterested. And I still don't get the Jewel thing _ I even thought her poetry release totally bit. Irvin put it well. Naturally, not everyone on this list likes the exact same stuff. No one here will stone you for not liking something (well, ok, maybe Culebra will). I get *really* bored with most folkie stuff very fast. Chicks with an acoustic guitar, some saved up poetry from college and an OK voice are a dime a dozen. Personally, I prefer my music much more textured and layered, and with passion for chrissakes. Frankly, I'm surprised Sinead O'Connor isn't discussed more often. I think that woman has shown more brilliance than *any* of the artists discussed here (ok, besides KaTe ), even more so than Happy and Tori (and it *pains* me to admit that). Neile -- why isn't she listed as one of the goddesses? I do, however, read the postings and I'd like to check out some of the artists who have been discussed (such as Susan McKeon, His Name is Alive and the Nields). Hell, this list turned me on to Veda Hille. Irvin, I *love* _Spine_, but I haven't heard the other stuff yet. The Ectophile's Guide puts her in the Beautiful and Fierce category, and that's so fitting. She can can bring you to tears on minute, slay you with metaphor the next. I dig that. > Then, Eponine lamented: > Actually, I thought the star of this list was nominally Happy Rhodes, none of whose CDs I yet own. I had hoped to get some recommendations from people about her recordings, but my request for recs was ignored. From the idea I get from you, Eponine, I'd suggest starting with the new one, _Many Worlds are Born Tonight_. It's absolutely magical -- brilliantly layered and full of, to overuse the buzzword of this e-mail, passion. My personal favorite is _Warpaint_, and _Rearmament_ is usually highly recommended around here. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:04:22 -0400 From: pauly on the shore Subject: heather nova (was Re: hole and bland) also sprach Eponine: >P.S. Doesn't Heather Nova ever come up in conversation? She is worthy of >SO MUCH MORE attention than she has gotten. i have a cool/warm relationship with heather's stuff. her albums, taking _oyster_ as an example, tend to have an equal share of good songs ("mother tongue") and blah songs ("walk this world"). (i do like _glowstars_ all he way through though). i much prefer the live material where, even as she flawlessly reproduces the album recording, she cuts impressively loose and comes across much more forcefully. anyways, for some reason i don't really understand, i was really looking forward to _siren_, but was rather underwhelmed. i found it to be pretty unchallenging record: the songwriting so-so, the musicianship bland, the production slick. a couple decent pop tunes, but nothing that clicked like the other records. that said, i'm still planning on seeing her live at the bowery ballroom in nyc later this month (the 28th, for noo yawk 'philes keeping score at home). woj n.p. webx, where lanterna is performing in-studio right now! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:14:33 -0400 From: pauly on the shore Subject: veda hille also sprach irvin lin: > np. VEDA HILLE: PATH OF A BODY. dunno about this. all this raving >about her, i picked up the CD in the cheap bin and i still think it may >be verging on that ectobland side of the spectrum for me. bland? with all those oddball time signatures? her rich lyrics? that *gorgeous* sense of rhythm? *boggle* sometimes, yrvin, i just get you.... i'll just repeat at you what javaho said to me: keep giving it a chance! >is SPINE a vast improvement over this one? i think _spine_ is a fiercer, more acomplished, more immediately intense record. i like _spine_ more, but that's like saying i like celis white better than red hook esb (sorry for the beer snob references). both great records, but one has to edge the other out in the end. woj ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:34:20 -0400 From: pauly on the shore Subject: Re: need advice on some singer/songwritesr also sprach 00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu: >Although I'm beyond broke right now, I'm interested in >the following artists. If anyone would be so kind as to >tell me a bit about their music (I'm a big lyrics person >;) and works up to date, that woudl be cool. yrvin summed up pj harvey better than i could and pretty much said all i would have said about liz phair, but i can tackle a couple of the others on your list. >--Susan Werner singer/songwriter, faux-folk. typically not my cuppa, but her quick wit, brash performances, excellent musicianship and surprisingly engrossing songs/lyrics have completely charmed me. her ability to capture and convey the feeling of what inspires a song is remarkable. four records. the first two to get are _last of the good straight girls_ and the soon-to-be-released (september 15) _time between trains_. her debut, _midwestern saturday night_ is alright, but pretty obviously a debut. the other is a live record, recorded at philadelphia's tin angel (which inspired the album's imaginative title, _live at the tin angel_), is also a good starting point since it captures some of her live energy and style which, imho, gets damped by the production on the _last of the good straight girls_ and the new one. a very strong songwriter and one of the few people i'd rather see without a band (richard shindell being the other person who comes to mind). >--Joy Askew started out back in the 80s doing semi-bland pop. did a stint as peter gabriel's keyboardist and backup singer and then disappeared for years. resurfaced in 1996 with a record, _tender city_, on the ex-label private music. i'm kinda iffy on that record -- she has a powerful voice, but a highly mannered singing and songwriting style. there are some really gorgeous songs on it though. since then, there have been an ep (_gorgeous greature_) and a pseudo-bootleg soundtrack (_when_ is the title, i think). i've only heard the former which is alright, but have heard good things about the latter. she's much better live than on record. woj ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:54:51 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: hole and bland Mark Lowry wrote: > I'm surprised Sinead O'Connor isn't discussed more often. I think > that woman has shown more brilliance than *any* of the artists > discussed here (ok, besides KaTe uppercase T thing now>), even more so than Happy and Tori (and it > *pains* me to admit that). Neile -- why isn't she listed as one of > the goddesses? IMHO, one problem is that she had one amazing, incredibly brilliant album, then went off the tracks. Nothing she has done since has been anywhere near "The Lion and the Cobra". She may have said all that she had to say with her first album, and has wandered around since. (OTOH, I pretty much think the same of Tori, though I have a feeling whatever she does next, building from the dynamic of the live band, may be stunning.) - -- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V4 #319 **************************