From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V4 #313 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Wednesday, September 9 1998 Volume 04 : Number 313 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] re: my comments about Happy ["J." Wermont ] Re: a different view on Happy ["Joanna M. Phillips" ] Re: KaTe ["Jeffrey C. Burka" ] Re: my comments about Happy ["Tim" ] Happy Then and Now [Chris Sampson ] Re: a different view on Happy [FAMarcus@aol.com] new bel canto ["Mike Mendelson" ] Re: a different view on Happy [jfrancis@villagenet.com] Kate Bush Tribute CD Release Party! [stunning@tezcat.com] Re: a different view on Happy [Greg Jumper ] Re: a different view on Happy [Kim Justice ] Re: a different view on Happy [Michael Colford ] Re: kat devlin sings the songs of kate bush [Paul Blair ] Happy ["J." Wermont ] Re: a different view on Happy [Chris Sampson ] Jane Siberry Question (AB SOUND) [Richard Holmes ] Re: Jane Siberry Question (AB SOUND) [Richard Holmes Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ***************** David Blank-Edelman (no Email address) ****************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- David Blank-Edelman Sat September 09 1967 Neon Holly Tominack Thu September 10 1970 Virgo Sharon Nichols (Rhodeways) Wed September 11 1963 Victim of Christianity Heather Russell September 11 Total Virgosity Karron Lynn Lane Tue September 14 1751 Ophelia Virgo Troy Wollenslegel Mon September 18 1972 Virgo Joyce Wermont Sat September 18 1954 Virgo Mark Frabotta Sun September 19 1965 Don't even THINK about parking here Joe Zitt Sat September 20 1958 Will Hack for CDs Ani DiFranco Wed September 23 1970 Virgo Paul Kim Sat October 01 1977 fetal position Dan Riley Sun October 08 1961 Libra Neile Graham Wed October 08 1958 pen Quenby M. Chunco Tue October 08 1968 Crunchy Frog Mike Garland Wed October 08 1952 Creature_of_the_Night Irvin Lin Tue October 09 1973 Libra - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:44:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: re: my comments about Happy Robert Lovejoy wrote: > Being exposed to a negative review of Happy here on the ecto list > seemed shocking at first, but upon quick reflection I'm delighted > Joyce shared her feelings with us. It hurts a little that Joyce > doesn't see Happy as I do, but I realize that's a personal thing and > worthy of the deepest respect. I know how you feel. People whose opinions I respect are always trashing the music I love best and it does hurt. I didn't mean to trash Happy - I do respect her musicianship and creativity. I just don't feel swept away by her music, which isn't any more in my control than the fact that I hate the taste of beets and love the color teal. :) Meth wrote: > Hmmm.... okay, I'll give you Laurie Anderson. But Kate Bush's music > has brought me to tears on several occasions, and Jane Siberry has > sent chills up and down my spine more times than I can count. OK, but that's you. I think for me, music that's as cerebral as theirs is doesn't move me. Maybe the deliberate artfulness gets in the way for me - it's like there's so much care taken technically that the emotion feels restrained, unable to really break loose and fly, or something. > To expand this to other "core" ecto artists: Sarah McLachlan put an > incredible amount of emotion into her music in her pre-_Surfacing_ > days; I will agree that Sarah is an exception in that she is considered an ecto "goddess" yet is someone I can relate to on an emotional level. The song "Into the Fire" has had me in tears many times. > Veda Hille's _Here Is A Picture_ has also reduced me to tears ("you > are one of us, was his reply" - yack); I've only heard one song of Veda's so I don't have much to go on, but it didn't feel very emotional to me. But of course that is just one song so I really can't make a judgement. Also, I'm not talking about lyrics at all, but only about the quality of the singing and instrumentals. > Every one of those artists has a definite emotional element to their > work. I guess it's a matter of opinion. > Is _Rhodes I_ the only album of Happy's you've heard? If so, then > you're missing out on a *lot* of feeling. Oops, I think I mixed up a couple of album titles. I have the one that's a compilation of songs from several different early albums. I guess that's Rhodesongs, not Rhodes I. Feed the Fire is on it, and Wretches Awry, and a cover of a David Bowie song (forget the title). It's mostly acoustic, not a lot of electronic stuff. To clarify, it's not her music itself that I find sterile. I think a lot of the songs are very, very pretty, in fact. It's her voice I find cold. Her vocal technique is perfect - a little *too* perfect for me, I guess. Flaws are part of what makes a voice interesting to me. This doesn't mean I dislike her - in fact I've listened to the album many times. I just have never gotten emotionally caught up in it. So I listen to it when I'm in the mood for something cooler and more abstract. > I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here. Are you > saying that Loreena McKennitt's music, for example, is invested with > more emotion than Tori's, or Kate's? Well, suppose I am saying that? It's just a reflection of what evokes *my* emotions. That's all any of us can talk about. As real and true as something may seem to any of us here, the opposite can be just as true for someone else. > I don't believe that music without an emotional element can move > anyone. You're probably right about that, but I think different things have emotional elements for different people. For example, Bach can move my classical-guitarist partner to tears, but although I find it fascinating when analyzing it from a mathematical perspective, it's not exactly something that makes me feel like whirling around the room in ecstasy. > I guess different people hear wildly different things in the same > sets of notes, eh? :) Exactly! fred wrote: > I am totally baffled by joyce's different view on happy. I know that > everyone is entitled to their own opinion but i can still be shocked > by it. After reading 6 responses to my post, all saying some variation on Fred's comment, I'm even more convinced than ever that there *is* a lot of agreement on this list about what kind of music moves people. Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 04:08:44 -0400 From: "Joanna M. Phillips" Subject: Re: a different view on Happy > From: J. Wermont > To: ecto@smoe.org > Subject: a different view on Happy > Date: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 7:31 PM > > So it was with anticipation that I bought a tape by Happy Rhodes > (Rhodesongs I), since the newsgroup was at least nominally about her. > I figured that if people were into all these other singers I liked so > much, I would probably like Happy a lot, too. But unfortunately, I > was quite disappointed in the tape. Frankly, I was surprised at how > sterile and passionless she sounded. Technically brilliant, without a > doubt, and possessed of an astonishing range. But cold. It was like > being in a room full of conceptual, geometric modern art when I > longed for warm, colorful fabric sculptures, or like eating a > beautifully presented, no-fat/no-salt/no-sugar Nouvelle Cuisine meal > instead of a hearty stew. I felt still hungry after listening. It was > all very pretty and "interesting," but it didn't make me *feel*. If you *are* talking about "Rhodes I" and not "RhodeSongs", then I can understand a bit. I still haven't gotten into "Rhodes I" and "Rhodes II" that much, although "Come Here" on "Rhodes II" always surprises me with this little twisty thing near the end that is definitely *creepy*. But it's in the words. If you are looking for emotion, try "Cohabitants" on "Equipoise" if you want the bejeebers scared outta you; hmm...for anger and I-think-I'll-just-crush-'em, try "If I Ever See The Girl Again" on "Building the Colossus"; "Warpaint" (on the album of that name) for new-found strength and determination; "I Have A Heart" on "Rearmament" is so achingly sweet and sad; oh jeez, all of "Warpaint" does it to *me*; I love "Temporary and Eternal" (originally on "Equipoise", but I like the very space-y, bass-y "The Keep" version better)--it gives chills in a saddening, hopeful, otherness kind of way; I find almost *everything* on "Building the Colossus" to be emotional/moving--many on this list have said it's Happy's "most accessible" album--it was the first one I heard and probably still my favourite; and if you really want to hear strong emotion in Happy's latest ("Many Worlds Are Born Tonight"), try "Looking Over Cliffs"--at times there is a ragged-edge sound to her voice (*more* chills!). If you are talking about singers who sing in an emotional *way*, then to me that often means performers who sacrifice musicality and understandability for some kind of vocal flailing around that I don't really appreciate. In fact, it's downright embarrassing sometimes. I suppose you could say that Happy's music is more cerebral...but it's *not* devoid of feeling, by a long shot! She just isn't a screamer...I wouldn't put one of her albums on (for the first time) and try to do something else at the same time and expect to be hit over the head by something. I find the best way to listen, for the first time, is in quietness, with full attention, and attention to lyrics. To me, it's her use of lyrics, melody, layering, mood, and (a lot of the time) Kevin's basslines that all combine to give the feeling to Happy's songs. How I know if I am consistently moved by a Happy Rhodes song: I want to SING with it! After the recent discussion of "Rearmament", I found myself playing and singing with "Til The Dawn Breaks" daily for about two weeks or so! I cannot *not* sing with "Building the Colossus" or "If I Ever See The Girl Again" or "Warpaint" or "Phobos" or or or...you get the picture. :-) fleur ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 06:57:24 -0400 From: "Jeffrey C. Burka" Subject: Re: KaTe kerry white sez, in response to mark: > KaTe has a facination with the Knights Templar. (which is true) and Michael Pearce sez: > That's is the way she spelled it under special circumstances. It is also > the two letters of her logo/symbol, as seen on earlier records. (which is mostly true) I have no idea if KaTe has ever written out her name (probably?); mostly it's a lovehounds (rec.music.gaffa) thing. Before she put together her first album, she did some touring of pubs as the KT Bush Band, and as has been pointed out, she uses a Knights Templar insignia (a T with the diagonal lines of a K sticking out from the vertical line) either blatant or hidden (mostly the latter) on all of her album covers. I suspect this method of typing her name was instigated by IED, but perhaps someone with a longer lovehounds history than mine (somewhere around 11 years) could be more accurate. jeff - -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | moving to jburka@cqi.com -- come say hi | |http://www.cqi.com/~jburka | at the new digs...now up and running! | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 22:39:18 +0000 From: "Tim" Subject: Re: my comments about Happy >Oops, I think I mixed up a couple of album titles. I have the one >that's a compilation of songs from several different early albums. I >guess that's Rhodesongs, not Rhodes I. Feed the Fire is on it, and >Wretches Awry, and a cover of a David Bowie song (forget the title). >It's mostly acoustic, not a lot of electronic stuff. > >To clarify, it's not her music itself that I find sterile. I think a >lot of the songs are very, very pretty, in fact. It's her voice I >find cold. Her vocal technique is perfect - a little *too* perfect >for me, I guess. Flaws are part of what makes a voice interesting to >me. I can actually completely understand this. When I bought Rhodesongs I really thought that Happy sounded as if she had a metaphorical blanket over her head. Everything sounded wonderful, but distant and not at all what I had really expected. I put a brave face on the situation and said to myself - but the music is really nice, and the lyrics, and the singing, its just... However I persevered, and discovered that Rhodesongs is a good introduction to Happy, but only in retrospect. After buying Rearmament, and soon falling in love with it, I went back to Rhodesongs and fell in love with it in one listen. Rhodesongs is just too stylistically monochrome to stimulate the chemicals required for Happy-addiction IMHO. What was needed was a bit of the fire, passion and energy which is present on almost everything else Happy has released (Ecto's a bit stiff though, another one I wouldn't recommend first off). Oh The Drears, 'Til The Dawn, Baby Don't Go, Look For The Child, Murder, Warpaint (no songs from Equipoise or BTC, don't have them yet)... all these songs reveal a passionate, Amazonian (to quote the Ectoguide) side of Happy you might never guess existed from Rhodesongs. Talk about hiding her light under a bushel! Anyways, things might be looking up for you, as Many Worlds Are Born Tonight includes more passionate, emotional songs than ever! Especially Tragic and Looking Over Cliffs, the last of which shows some amazingly ragged vocals. I'm not trying to convert you to the "True Happy Way" or anything, but I recognised your criticisms and couldn't help but wonder if you suffered from the same symptoms I had. Anyway, happy listening! Regards, Tim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 08:55:54 -0400 From: Chris Sampson Subject: Happy Then and Now I've listened to MWABT a few times now and have to admit that, while it IS technically very tight and rich, I'm missing some of the emotional impact of, say, Warpaint (and some of the grit, too). She's not on notice or anything, but I find myself already curious to know what she'll do next. Just my $0.02... Chris Sampson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:06:34 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: a different view on Happy In a message dated 9/9/98 4:12:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fleur@one.net writes: << I cannot *not* sing with "Building the Colossus" or "If I Ever See The Girl Again" or "Warpaint" or "Phobos" or or or...you get the picture. :-) >> now i know i'm weird.............i can sing with those fr ed ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:14:54 -0500 From: "Mike Mendelson" Subject: new bel canto RE: Bel Canto anyone know if Rush has been released in US yet? Has anyone heard it? How does it compare to their last one? Also, they apparently recorded an album accompanying some middle-eastern-type guy. Ring any bells? Apparently not available in US. Anyone in Europe know of it? Thanks. - -mjm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:38:19 -0400 (EDT) From: jfrancis@villagenet.com Subject: Re: a different view on Happy Yea, Some of that earlier/middle stuff suffers from a "one person doing everything" type of stilted sound. On some songs the synth sounds are soooo cheesy as to be unlistenable. I repeat....*some*. That being more the product of the time as anything else. (those cheesy sounds once were good; like leisure suits, and polyester disco clothes) However, once she got to the point of being able to have other musicians of the caliber of David Torn play on her albums, like Collossus, the sound obviously benefited from the broader, fleshed out orchestration. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:15:34 -0600 From: stunning@tezcat.com Subject: Kate Bush Tribute CD Release Party! (please pass this on to any friends you think might be interested) (and I'm sorry for any cross posts) ***I WANNA BE KATE: THE SONGS OF KATE BUSH CD RELEASE PARTY ANNOUNCED!*** ...and YOU are invited! Please join my friends and I as we celebrate the release of the long-awaited Kate Bush tribute CD, "I WANNA BE KATE: The Songs Of Kate Bush," on Brown Star Records! Over a year in the making, and involving the talents of 71 musicians and 19 engineers - the CD is set for global release on September 22, 1998. THE CELEBRATION - On Thursday night October 8th at the Double Door in Chicago you can meet the talented people who put this awesome project together as well as hear them play these fabulous Kate Bush songs LIVE!!!! This is a show not to be missed. If you don't have a CD yet, you can get one there (and a cool poster too). The doors open at 7pm and the show will begin promptly at 8. You won't want to be late as you would miss a very special opening...Some of the acts that are scheduled to perform include: Mouse The Aluminum Group Susan Voelz The Baltimores, The J Davis Trio Nora O'Connor The Plunging Necklines Trinkets of Joy Justin Roberts Catherine Smitko Victoria Storm Tom Dunning & Your Boyfriends Thomas Negovan ...and MORE! The cover at the door is $8. Many of you reading this may not have worked on the album itself, but you probably did something over the last 12 months that offered support to me and to the project as we tried to keep the momentum going so we could persevere and see it through to its completion...you deserve to be celebrated as well and I hope you will come and spend the evening with us. The Double Door is located in Chicago's historic Wicker Park on the corner of Milwaukee, North Avenue(1600 N), Damen (2000 W). For more information call 773-508-5221 . If you don't know about the CD, please visit our website listed below. Thanks, and we all hope to see you on the 8th! Thomas Dunning Brown Star Records Chicago I WANNA BE KATE: The Songs of Kate Bush http://www.tezcat.com/~stunning/kate/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:35:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Jumper Subject: Re: a different view on Happy Joyce wrote: And it seems to center mostly on very cerebral songwriter/performers such as Happy, Kate, Jane, Laurie Anderson, etc. These are performers who focus heavily on technique and innovation, on art and style - rather than, necessarily, on emotion. I understand what Joyce is saying, and I think much of this discussion revolves around the connotations of "emotional". I'd characterize the music of the artists Joyce cites as "evocative", rather than as heart-on-the-sleeve passionate. Both styles can be considered emotional, but the former is indirect, rather than "in your face," like the latter. I'm rather fond of cerebral and evocative art (and have been accused of living too much "in my head"), so I like all these artists. Among other things, I love the imagery Happy's and Kate's music conjures; however, I tend to turn to other music when I want to sit in a dark room and really experience feeling like hell, for example. :) There is no shortage of this second type of music within the Ecto spectrum, but I'd agree with Joyce that there's comparatively little of it, for me, in the center of the Ecto continuum. [To bring in another thread, some time after _Touch_, but before _Solace_, I went through a "dark" period where I used to go home by myself at lunch and crank _Touch_ to help get certain feelings out of my system. Due to this personal connection to a particular place and time in my life, _Touch_ vies with _Solace_ as my favorite Sarah album; otherwise, _Solace_ would probably win on purely musical grounds.] Meth responded: Hmmm.... okay, I'll give you Laurie Anderson. But Kate Bush's music has brought me to tears on several occasions, and Jane Siberry has sent chills up and down my spine more times than I can count... I definitely identify with the "chills" effect (and fondly remember previous discussions here on "goose bump moments"); however, I'm wondering about music bringing one to tears. Do you mean this literally? Movies (and books, occasionally) can get me choked up, but I don't think music has ever really done that to me... I was starting to conclude that my being male might be part of the "problem", but I notice that some follow-ups from other male posters have also mentioned music bringing them to tears. I've been aware of this disparity in my reactions for some time, but hadn't previously thought much about why it existed. I'm sure the presence of visual imagery in film explains part of the difference. However, upon reflection, it seems to me that the very act of setting some event/incident/feeling to music renders it more abstract and stylized and, therefore, less direct than a reenactment of that same event. For example, I finally watched "Ponette" this weekend; it's hard for me to imagine any song *about* the title character's deeply sad situation even getting close to seeing/hearing her *in* that situation. Music definitely sets or deepens moods for me; for example, I have "songs to be pissed off by" and music to sink into melancholy with. However, I'm curious about songs which actually bring tears, and I'm frankly puzzled when I see threads in the classical music newsgroups about (instrumental) music that makes people cry. For those of you with such visceral reactions to music, how does that work for you? Greg np: The Why Store, _Two Beasts_ (now *this* is not cerebral) nr: David Zindell, _The Broken God_ (but *this* is :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:59:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Kim Justice Subject: Re: a different view on Happy On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Greg Jumper wrote: > [...] However, I'm curious about songs which actually bring tears, and > I'm frankly puzzled when I see threads in the classical music newsgroups > about (instrumental) music that makes people cry. For those of you with > such visceral reactions to music, how does that work for you? It just happens. For me, more often than not it's instrumental music with no obvious narrative. Some things that affect me this way if I'm not careful: Sasha Matson, "i-5" (final movement), from the CD _Steel Chords_ Kit Watkins, "Phoebus' Dream", from _Sunstruck_ Jane Siberry, "The Bird in the Gravel", from _The Walking_ kj - -- justicek@edge.net (Kim Justice) http://edge.edge.net/~justicek The Wienermobile is the meat industry's Joe Camel. -- Bruce Friedrich (PETA) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:56:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Colford Subject: Re: a different view on Happy On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Greg Jumper wrote: > Meth responded: > > Hmmm.... okay, I'll give you Laurie Anderson. But Kate > Bush's music has brought me to tears on several occasions, > and Jane Siberry has sent chills up and down my spine more > times than I can count... > > I definitely identify with the "chills" effect (and fondly remember > previous discussions here on "goose bump moments"); however, I'm > wondering about music bringing one to tears. Do you mean this > literally? Movies (and books, occasionally) can get me choked up, but > I don't think music has ever really done that to me... I was starting > to conclude that my being male might be part of the "problem", but I > notice that some follow-ups from other male posters have also > mentioned music bringing them to tears. I've been aware of this I think it's a personal thing. Some people are natural bawlers! Actually, I am frequently moved to tears by music, movies and books. Happy's "Save Our Souls (Acoustic Version)" does it to me every time. Also, her version of "O Holy Night," believe it or not. Kate used to do it to me with "And Dream of Sheep," "Watching You Without Me," and "This Woman's Work," to name a few. And I am emotionally crushed by Jane Siberry's "The Walking (And Constantly)," and "The Taxi Ride." That's just a few! Even upbeat, poppy songs do it to me. Martha & the Muffins "Cooling the Medium" can bring a tear to my eye pretty easily. > film explains part of the difference. However, upon reflection, it > seems to me that the very act of setting some event/incident/feeling > to music renders it more abstract and stylized and, therefore, less > direct than a reenactment of that same event. For example, I finally > watched "Ponette" this weekend; it's hard for me to imagine any song > *about* the title character's deeply sad situation even getting close > to seeing/hearing her *in* that situation. It's funny. What moves me to tears in music is very rarely the story being told in the lyrics. It's usually the melody, or quite often the voice (and most often, a combination of the two) that do it for me. (Jane's wailing cry, "So if you want someone to love you, then don't just go," is both chilling and dripping with emotion.) Of course, situations help as well. When "The Walking (And Constantly)" came out, it spoke very much to a situation I was in. And I'm very moved by the story in "Watching You Without Me." But most of all, it usually just a simple turn of the melody that catches me and brings tears to my eyes. (I actually cry quite often when I hear Patti Labelle sing live.) > frankly puzzled when I see threads in the classical music newsgroups > about (instrumental) music that makes people cry. For those of you > with such visceral reactions to music, how does that work for you? Now, I'm not really familiar with classical must, but there are definitely certain passage that choke me up. I'll leave this to be answered by someone more knowledgeable, but I did address the "melody" aspect of music moving me above. Take care everyone, Michael n.p. Lisa Germano - Slide (which, although excellent, does not move me to tears) n.r. The Woodstock Murders by Jon Froscher - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Colford | Reading Public Library Head of Technical Services | Reading, Massachusetts colford@noblenet.org | *North of Boston Library Exchange* - -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:08:20 -0500 From: Paul Blair Subject: Re: kat devlin sings the songs of kate bush meth wrote: >>Kat Devlin will be performing at the Quick Center For The Arts' Wien >>Experimental Theatre at Fairfield University on North Benson Road >>in Fairfield, CT (a short train-ride from NYC, a couple-hours' car-ride >>from Boston). There are two performances, one at 7 p.m. and one at >>9 p.m. on Friday 10/2/98 Tickets are $25--and worth every hard-earned >>cent (students & seniors half price)--but you should buy them in advance >>(the last show I went to was sold out!)--major credit cards accepted. >> >>For more information or tickets call 203-254-4010. > >woj and I are definitely going to this, probably the 9 pm show. We saw Kat >Devlin's cabaret show "Kat Devlin Sings The Songs Of Kate Bush" a couple >summers ago in NYC, and it was really neat. I've seen Kat perform too, and, while really neat, I should note that she doesn't always do only Kate Bush covers (at the show I saw she did a number of different kinds of things--ballads, showtunes, etc.). Is the show titled "Kat Devlin Sings The Songs Of Kate Bush" or was that just stuck in the title of the message as an expression of hope? - --Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:15:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: emotions from music Greg wrote: > Music definitely sets or deepens moods for me; for example, I have > "songs to be pissed off by" and music to sink into melancholy with. > However, I'm curious about songs which actually bring tears, Popular music doesn't usually bring me to tears unless I'm already sad and just looking for an opportunity to get choked up. As I wrote earlier, "Into the Fire" by Sarah (yes, Solace is my favorite too) has gotten me to cry at times - I think because the subject matter gets to me as much as the music. I love the lines: "Follow the signs marked 'back to the beginning'/ No more compromise," because in life we do have to accept compromises, accept second best to that primary bond of mother and child, and I think we often spend our lives looking for it. When she sings "No more compromise" I'm thinking, "Yeah! Enough of these crappy unsatisfying substitutes! I want the *real thing*!" And that'll get me all teary... Often, though, it's hard to pin down exactly what emotion a song is kicking up. What I feel most often with my very favorite songs is *ecstatic*, but with a lot of intensity and drama. That is, it's not a perky or serene kind of joy - it has an almost desperate edge to it. Kind of like how you might feel rushing to greet someone you love but haven't seen in a year... it's joy, but there's also an intense yearning, from the long separation. Lots of songs give me a liberated, joyous kind of feeling, like flying down the freeway at night with the top down - just this wild, intense ecstatic feeling. The songs I like best usually have a strong sense of motion, of speeding forward ("The Boys of Summer" by Don Henley really does that for me). I also love intense, dark songs that still have some drive (Patty Smith's "Dancing Barefoot" is one of my all-time faves that fits that mood). Anyway, I hope this made some sense. It's pretty personal, so it's hard to put into words. > and I'm frankly puzzled when I see threads in the classical music > newsgroups about (instrumental) music that makes people cry. For > those of you with such visceral reactions to music, how does that > work for you? Good question. I do get teary from classical music - certain pieces, that is. Sometimes it's because of nostalgia, either for something I'm remembering directly, or maybe a more vague nostalgia for some emotional experience that I can't quite remember because it happened so long ago. There's a passage in "Sirenes" by Debussy that I have never gotten all the way through dry-eyed. I guess it's the poignancy that gets me. Some might call it sentimentality, but I don't like that word because it's disparaging and tends to cheapen what is for me very sincere feeling. Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:17:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: Happy Tim wrote: > Oh The Drears, 'Til The Dawn, Baby Don't Go, Look For The Child, > Murder, Warpaint (no songs from Equipoise or BTC, don't have them > yet)... all these songs reveal a passionate, Amazonian (to quote the > Ectoguide) side of Happy you might never guess existed from > Rhodesongs. Talk about hiding her light under a bushel! OK, you convinced me to give a listen to some of her other music before closing the door all the way. It's true that Rhodesongs didn't inspire me to hear any more. (I also tend to respond more to guitar than electronics, and several songs on Rhodesongs are played on guitar - so I figured if I wasn't responding to those, I would do even worse with the more keyboard-oriented stuff.) But "hiding her light under a bushel?" OK, I have to check it out now. :) Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 17:20:45 -0400 From: Chris Sampson Subject: Re: a different view on Happy > > Meth responded: > > > > Hmmm.... okay, I'll give you Laurie Anderson. But Kate > > Bush's music has brought me to tears on several occasions, > > and Jane Siberry has sent chills up and down my spine more > > times than I can count... Kate - Running Up That Hill (...let's exchange the experience...) Music crescendo raises goose bumps. Cloudbusting, too. Jane - The Vigil (most of the entire piece) Words and (to a lesser degree )Music bring tears. Even before an associative moment during which my friend read Mumia Abu Jamal's essay about his mother dying while he was in prison as I faded in The Vigil (coupla years ago, when I had a 'rock' show). and, yes,... Laurie - Strange Angels. Still, more cerebral, as the tears that come are dependent on 'understanding' what the song is really about (LA, in an interview, said that the 'thousands of tiny tear drops... and I didn't know whether to laugh or cry... and I said, "What next, Big Sky?"' refers to an esoteric description of the workings of SDI (classic Laurie)... I didn't know whether to laugh or cry, either. Robert Wyatt's version of 'Round Midgnight (my favorite of the ones I've heard) chokes me up, too. Just so sad, his voice, his unfortunate (though self-inflicted) circumstances surrounding his paraplegia... and that echo... I'm welling up just hearing it 'in my head'. HR - No One There... and I'm not even a cat person! There's a purity to her voice moreso in that song than in many others. Arthur Rubinstein's performance of The Emperor Concerto (Beethoven)... He positively dwells on some of the passages, but oh, so gently... Well into double-digit figures (expressed in cents), Chris Sampson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:22:23 -0700 From: Richard Holmes Subject: Jane Siberry Question (AB SOUND) Hi, I was searching AB Sound (www.absound.ca) and came across a cryptic notation for Jane Siberry's "Bound by the Beauty" CD. Here is the listing from their page: BOUND BY THE BEAUTY $3.72/$5.49 MCA DSBBD31058 BOUND THY BEAUTY $10.50/$15.49 IUV 075990025942 CHILD:MUSIC FOR THE CHRISTMAS $12.53/$18.49 KCH SHECD003 COLLECTION 84-89 $5.08/$7.49 MCA DSRBD31093 JANE SIBERRY $10.84/$15.99 FUS SRCD0022 MARIA $7.79/$11.49 WEA CD45915 NO BORDERS HERE $3.72/$5.49 MCA DSBBD31006 SPECKLESS SKY $3.72/$5.49 MCA DSBBD31019 TEENAGER $10.84/$15.99 KCH KOCCD7939 WALKING $3.72/$5.49 MCA DSBBD31040 Note that there are two that appear to be "Bound by the Beauty", and one is cheaper than the other. Now, I certainly don't mind paying the higher price for one, but searches of Jane's discographies don't mentionn the difference between the two. (The last two fields of each entry are the distributier (I think) and the part number). Anyway, I already have the Walking (though $3.72 USD is pretty good price). As far as A&B Sound, I've left an urgent voicemail on their web-line phone to call me back to explain the difference (but I know better than to hold my breath). There is no further info for these two at A&B sound. I am anxious to find out -- when I place this order I will not only have more Jane S's but will also own every Veda Hille CD that I know about (oh ... I can feel it coming ... someone's gotta post about some rare Veda and I'll have to make *another* order! EWS EWS EWS!) Thanks a bunch - please cc me on any reply (yeah, I'm too eager to place this order that I don't want to wait for the digest to come out!). - -Richard. @ \@/ Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@ccrma.stanford.edu) @ | @ \|/ "I dreamed I was an animal / in a human world, @ | Now when I hear big sounds, / I cry like a little girl. @ , , | , , I'm talking about connections / between here and there @ ' ' ' ' All things exist at once, / seems more than we can bear. @ - Happy Rhodes, "All Things (Mia ia io)" from Warpaint album @ @ Kiva / Kate Price \ Dar Williams / Renaissance \ Sheila Chandra / Laura Love @ Susan McKeown \ Sarah McLachlan / Libana \ Danielle Dax \ Dog Faced Hermans @ Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush \ Tori Amos / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes @ Ingrid Karklins \ Sinead O'Connor / Jane Siberry / Pauline Oliveros ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:46:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: in-your-face music Greg wrote: > Both styles can be considered emotional, but the former is indirect, > rather than "in your face," like the latter. It's interesting - you used the phrase "in your face." I think even that description is probably somewhat relative, depending on whose face you're talking about. :) It's relative to whatever else you listen to. I wouldn't use that phrase to describe the kind of expressive music I love. To me, "in your face" music would be something like Courtney Love, which is more aggressive than what I usually listen to (though I definitely have moods that call for that sometimes). Maybe that music would be off the scale entirely for you, just intolerably head-banging. Whereas what's in-your-face to you might be delightfully expressive and warm to me. And what's "evocative" to you might be undetectable to me. In other words, maybe my scale, from subtle to hit-over-the-head, spans a different range from yours? > There is no shortage of this second type of music within the Ecto > spectrum, but I'd agree with Joyce that there's comparatively little > of it, for me, in the center of the Ecto continuum. Could you recommend some of those artists? I'm always up for discovering new music. Thanks, Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:51:00 -0700 From: Richard Holmes Subject: Re: Jane Siberry Question (AB SOUND) Hi, I wrote: > I was searching AB Sound (www.absound.ca) and came across a cryptic > notation for Jane Siberry's "Bound by the Beauty" CD. Here is the > listing from their page: > > BOUND BY THE BEAUTY $3.72/$5.49 MCA DSBBD31058 > > BOUND THY BEAUTY $10.50/$15.49 IUV 075990025942 > > Note that there are two that appear to be "Bound by the Beauty", and > one is cheaper than the other. Now, I certainly don't mind paying > the higher price for one, but searches of Jane's discographies don't > mentionn the difference between the two. (The last two fields of > each entry are the distributier (I think) and the part number). > > Anyway, I already have the Walking (though $3.72 USD is pretty good > price). I finally found out that the first is indeed a single, and the second is a US import which I must allow 4-6 weeks for, as it is out of stock. Just in case anyone was wondering........ - -Richard. @ Kiva / Kate Price \ Dar Williams / Renaissance \ Sheila Chandra / Laura Love @ Susan McKeown \ Sarah McLachlan / Libana \ Danielle Dax \ Dog Faced Hermans @ Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush \ Tori Amos / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes @ Ingrid Karklins \ Sinead O'Connor / Jane Siberry / Pauline Oliveros ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:34:57 EDT From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: Re: Jane Siberry Question (AB SOUND) In a message dated 9/9/98 5:54:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rholmes@ccrma.Stanford.EDU writes: << I finally found out that the first is indeed a single, and the second is a US import which I must allow 4-6 weeks for, as it is out of stock. >> I just received "Bound By the Beauty" from A&B.....I chose the one that was $5.49 US.....It's by Duke Street Records (1989)and says that it was *Previously Released as DSMD-10098* Track listing is: Bound By the Beauty Something About Trains Hockey Everything Reminds Me of My Dog The Valley The Life is the Red Wagon Half Angel Half Eagle La Jalouse Miss Punta Blanca Are We Dancing Now (Map III) I've played it several times now and love every song on it. ;-) Jill :D *share the music!* ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V4 #313 **************************