From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V4 #279 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, August 17 1998 Volume 04 : Number 279 Today's Subjects: ----------------- out gay artists with straight following? ["J." Wermont ] August 22 Living Room Tour ["Larry S. Greenfield" ] RE: out gay artists with straight following? [Tim.Cook@Swift.Com (Tim Coo] Re: out gay artists with straight following? [Horter!!! ] Many worlds in LA ["Neil K." ] women on the radio ["J." Wermont ] re: lilith fair bullshit ["J." Wermont ] Re: out gay artists with straight following? [FAMarcus@aol.com] Re: out gay artists with straight following? ["J." Wermont ] Re: women on the radio [Birdie ] Re: out gay artists with straight following? [Birdie ] Re: out gay artists with straight following? [Sherlyn Koo ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 00:41:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: out gay artists with straight following? > I guess a bigger question is, how many out gay folk have there been > who have been fortchoming from the beginning of their career and had a > large straight following anyway? I think the Indigo Girls, and, and to a lesser extent, Melissa Etheridge, have a large straight following (although admittedly their lesbian following is greater). Certainly kd lang has a big straight following. Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:00:54 +1000 (EST) From: Sherlyn Koo Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? Hey folks, People are talking about the Indigo Girls... I cannot resist any longer... Joyce said: > I think the Indigo Girls, and, and to a lesser extent, Melissa Etheridge, > have a large straight following (although admittedly their lesbian following > is greater). Certainly kd lang has a big straight following. I'd have to agree, at least regarding IG (I'm not such a big ME fan anymore so I'm not really qualified to comment). I think the two biggest "groups" of IG fans are gay women, and college kids (male and female, straight and gay). But of course IG have a much, MUCH bigger appeal than just those two groups - that's one of the things what I love about them... Did that make sense? Never mind. :) sherlyn =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= a+e=ig Sherlyn Koo - sherlyn@fl.net.au [Sydney, Australia] "Life can be so dramatic - but it was real at the time..." - The Waifs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:23:49 EDT From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: Juicy tidbits of music news (from ZENtertainment) Santa Monica-based public radio station KCRW has announced a fourth RARE ON AIR CD will be released through MAMMOTH Records October, again collecting tracks from KCRW's MORNING BECOMES ECLECTIC. RARE ON AIR, VOL. 3 includes tracks from OZOMATLI, CAFE TACUBA, SOUL COUGHING, RADIOHEAD, GUS GUS, MARCY PLAYGROUND, THE FINN BROTHERS, MAZZY STAR, Sarah McLachlan, Ani DiFranco, Randy Newman, Zap Mama, Tom Waits, and the late Jeff Buckley. It can also be ordered now through KCRW's semi-annual pledge drive, through next Monday. http://www.kcrw.org SONY Classical releases a second soundtrack to TITANIC on August 25th, to coincide with the release of James Cameron's epic film on video the next week. Entitled BACK TO TITANIC, the album will feature Ireland's Maire Brennan, with a new version of her singing "Come Josephine, In My Flying Machine," which has dialogue with Kate Winslet whispering the opening lyrics incorporated into the start of the song. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:42:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Carolyn Andre Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, J. Wermont wrote: > > I guess a bigger question is, how many out gay folk have there been > > who have been fortchoming from the beginning of their career and had a > > large straight following anyway? > > I think the Indigo Girls, and, and to a lesser extent, Melissa Etheridge, > have a large straight following (although admittedly their lesbian following > is greater). Certainly kd lang has a big straight following. > > Joyce > not to nitpick, but the original question was "out gay folks ... who have been forthcoming from the beginning of their career." Given that, I believe only k.d. may fit the bill. (and it certainly caused her problems when attempting to "make it" in any solid way in the "country" community). While the orientation of all 3 may have been as clear as a bell to the lesbian/gay community - particularly considering the clubs some, such as Melissa, began their career - Melissa didn't formally "out" herself until the Clinton era - after 4 albums, and the IGs have been quiet about their orientation, in fact rather clear about separating their private and performance lives ... Carolyn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:52:55 -0400 From: "Joanna M. Phillips" Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? > From: Carolyn Andre > To: ecto@smoe.org > Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? > Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 9:42 AM (snip) > not to nitpick, but the original question was "out gay folks ... who have > been forthcoming from the beginning of their career." > > Given that, I believe only k.d. may fit the bill. (and it certainly caused > her problems when attempting to "make it" in any solid way in the > "country" community). While the orientation of all 3 may have been as > clear as a bell to the lesbian/gay community - particularly considering > the clubs some, such as Melissa, began their career - Melissa didn't > formally "out" herself until the Clinton era - after 4 albums, and the IGs > have been quiet about their orientation, in fact rather clear about > separating their private and performance lives ... k.d. didn't finally announce she was a lesbian for *years*. She hinted broadly at it, saying she had a confession to make, that she was a...a..."L..."..."L..."..."Lawrence Welk fan". It may have been apparent, but she too was worried about backlash. fleur ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:30:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Colford Subject: Re: Out gay artists with straight followings On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Jeffrey C. Burka wrote: > I guess a bigger question is, how many out gay folk have there been > who have been fortchoming from the beginning of their career and had a > large straight following anyway? And I'm not sure I could name a single > one. (and I won't count people who were ambigiously coy about maybe > being bisexual) How about Ashley MacIsaac? I know his career started when he was pretty young, and I don't know when he officially came out, (although I knew he was gay before 'Hi, How Are You?' was released.) I know he has a large straight following. I might also mention Imperial Teen, Roddy Bottum's (of Faith No more) latest project. Roddy has been out since before Imperial Teen was around, and they've had modest success. (Although I don't know whether their core audience is gay or straight.) Michael - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Colford | Reading Public Library Head of Technical Services | Reading, Massachusetts colford@noblenet.org | *North of Boston Library Exchange* - -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 07:47:49 -0700 (PDT) From: charley darbo Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? I don't know about IG; though my unsupported impression--through various acquaintances who are/were fans--is that no one ever suspected they might be straight. As previously mentioned, ME didn't come out until she was well established. And k.d. didn't come out until she was interviewed by _The_Advocate_ after _Ingenue_'s release. Personally, I didn't hear her use the "L..L..Lawrence Welk fan" bit until after that, so I don't even think she played _that_ close to the edge until after the TA interview. Joan Jett only recently came out. Liberace never came out; Freddy Mercury never came out; Bowie never came out--he took the Elton John/Mick Jagger "I'm an openminded bisexual" route; Michael Stipe has never come out; Rock Hudson never came out; Peter Allen never admitted to anything but bisexuality. Jeff Buckley kind of came out in various interviews, but always ambiguously. Has Kitchens of Distinction come out explicity? Or do they just let the unambiguous pronouns of their songs speak for them? I'm struggling here to come up with a single successful artist who was out from the beginning of their career. Has RuPaul ever explicitly come out? Divine never came out, for godsake. Tom Snyder: Are you gay? Divine: I have a wife and kids in Baltimore. TS: Yes, but are you gay? Divine: I have a wife and kids in Baltimore. [ad infinitum] The only two that come to mind are Quentin Crisp (a writer and professional talk-show guest) whom I include only because, as compared to other gay writers, his career in the spotlight is much more founded on his public persona; on his re-creation of himself as a quasi-rockstar-famous-for-being-famous type--than on his books. (Though if we include Quentin Crisp in this discussion then I guess we'd have to include Lea Delaria, so maybe I'm overextending the scope a bit here.) --and Rufus Wainwright, who's been out from day one, but whose level of success remains to be seen. So really, as far as musical artists who have a primarily straight audience--or even who've been largely accepted by a non-gay-identified audience (artists outside the Holly Near/Romanovsky&Phillips/Pansy Division gay-music-ghetto) has there ever been anyone other than Rufus who's been entirely, explicitly, unambiguously out of the closet from day one? Not that I can think of. - --Charley _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 07:54:32 -0700 (PDT) From: charley darbo Subject: Re: Out gay artists with straight followings I didn't know that about Ashley McIsaac. Has he come out explicitly? - --Charley n.p. Boise Beasts: _Helly_Nasty_ n.r. Kazantzakis (sp): _The_Last_Temptation_of_Christ_ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:00:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Colford Subject: Re: Out gay artists with straight followings On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, charley darbo wrote: > I didn't know that about Ashley McIsaac. Has he come out explicitly? Yes. I read an interview with him in the Advocate a couple of years ago. And I'm pretty sure the lead singer of Kitchens of Distinction is officially out. Again, I'd argue about their popularity level and who their audience is however. --Michael - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Colford | Reading Public Library Head of Technical Services | Reading, Massachusetts colford@noblenet.org | *North of Boston Library Exchange* - -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 17 Aug 1998 15:36:28 +0000 From: Tim.Cook@Swift.Com (Tim Cook) Subject: RE: out gay artists with straight following? >Division gay-music-ghetto) has there ever been anyone other than Rufus >who's been entirely, explicitly, unambiguously out of the closet from >day one? Not that I can think of. Tom Robinson springs to mind. I don't know if his audience were mainly straigh t but he definitely made no bones about the fact he was gay in the mid-seventies, even going so far as to write a song "Sing If You're Glad to be Gay". All the other "out" gay artists I can think of have either never said they were actually gay or came some sometime after their careers took off. From my experience at his concerts a large percentage of the audience are straight. I'm not sure how well he's known in the USA (he's definitely got a fan base in the USA) but in the late seventies/early eighties he was well known in the UK. Actually, thinking about it, Tom must be fairly well known over here as he won three awards at this years GLAMA bash. tim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:17:20 +0300 (EEST) From: Juha Sorva Subject: Re: Varttina Hi, On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 Penta5@aol.com wrote: > Hello Juha and all, > Your review of the festivals, especially > Varttina, has me jealous! I haven't seen them live in a couple of years. They > were in the middle of a big N.A. tour and I caught them in Colorado. Sari was > ill during that tour and did not perform many shows including that one. The > group was not any the less for the subtraction, in fact, they were superb ! I > wish Sari all success in her solo career but, I'm confident that Varttina will > be just fine without her. In addition to the album, I just got to hear them play the new songs live two days ago... a good experience despite the rather subdued atmosphere. (Outdoors. It rained.) While I still don't think _Vihma_ quite reaches the level of some of the previous albums, it has grown on me after repeated listenings. And performed live, the new songs are as good as anything they've ever done. What I hadn't recalled is how good some of the songs on _Aitara_ (which never was my favorite Värttinä album) sounded... I really have to listen to that one again... I wasn't really worried that Sari's leaving would cripple the band on the stage. There, the others can certainly hold their own anyway. I was worried about the quality of the new album, as she had written many of Värttinä's best songs. Fortunately, my fears didn't come true. As for Sari Kaasinen's solo work, I just heard a little of her album _Emo_, and at least that one song was very mainstreamish sounding pop with folky touches... I'm not going to waste my money on it before I get to hear the whole disc in advance. As a funny detail, Sari's (who could be considered Värttinä's "mother" in a way, or at least a very prominent figure in the band) album title _Emo_ is a word for "mother" in Finnish. Värttinä's _Vihma_ contains a song called "Emoton", which means "motherless".... coincidence? Juha n.p. a pause (to type this) in the sound of bubbles in plastic CD packaging foam being burst open n. also p. Mike Patton: _Adult Themes for Voice_ definitely very... ummm, experimental ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:49:15 -0700 From: "Larry S. Greenfield" Subject: August 22 Living Room Tour Hey all. This is a reminder that this Saturday there will be anecto-fest axtraordinaire at my house in Los Angeles. Mary Dolan has just been added to the lineup! We've also got Abby Travis, Aife Wells, Beth Waters, Essey Jensen, and some other treats in store! This will be a great show. It'll start at 6 p.m. We're setting up in the back yard. Please email me to RSVP, and for directions. I hope to see alot of you there. - -=-Larry-=- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:40:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? > not to nitpick, but the original question was "out gay folks ... who have > been forthcoming from the beginning of their career." OK, but someone suggested Elton John for this description. Was he really out from the beginning? If so, I must've been pretty dense because I missed that. Actually, come to think of it, haven't both Ferron and Cris Williamson - both certainly out from the beginning - had fairly large straight followings? Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:48:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? > So really, as far as musical artists who have a primarily straight > audience--or even who've been largely accepted by a non-gay-identified > audience (artists outside the Holly Near/Romanovsky&Phillips/Pansy > Division gay-music-ghetto) has there ever been anyone other than Rufus > who's been entirely, explicitly, unambiguously out of the closet from > day one? Not that I can think of. How about Jimmy Sommerville and Bronski Beat? They were very, very out (they had songs like "I Need a Man") and their first album, Age of Consent, had on the album cover a listing of the ages of sexual consent, and whether homosexuality was legal, in many countries throughout the world. I remember their music being played on the radio quite a bit during the 80's. Not a very long-lived band, although Sommerville is still performing and recording, isn't he? Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:52:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? > I don't know if his audience were mainly straight > but he definitely made no bones about the fact he was gay in the > mid-seventies, even going so far as to write a song "Sing If You're Glad to > be Gay". That's right - that song was on the ?? Ball (I want to say Fireman's Ball, but that may be way off) album that starred people like Roger Daltrey of the Who, etc. Very rock-oriented and definitely had a very straight following. Sorry my recollection is so vague - does anyone remember the name of that album? It was a live performance, wasn't it? Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:12:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: re: corporate lilith Doug wrote: > i think it's spurious to draw parallels between tours now and tours > before, oh, 1985 or so. the tour (not the local promoter, mind you) > now loses money on ticket sales in virtually every case, and only > makes it up in merchandising. that means you need money up front, > which means you need loans from banks, which need to be guaranteed > that you can pay them back, which means corporate sponsorship or > donated resources (or really, really deep pockets). for better or > worse, tours now have an immense array of logistical expenses that > jazz age tours didn't. they've got to carry liability insurance, fer > chrissakes. Not only that, but everything is so much more expensive now. There are lots of things you could do in the 70's that just can't be done now - I don't mean just difficult, but *impossible*. In the 70's you could work part-time at a low-paying, groovy social-change oriented job and still manage to pay your bills. True, it was a scrape-by living, but it could be done. I don't think that's possible anymore unless you're independently wealthy or something. Music tours must cost a fortune now, far more than they did 20 years ago. I don't know the details, so I'm glad Doug wrote about that. I just know that unless you're very lucky, you do have to "sell yourself" to some corporate entity just to survive, whether you're in the music business, the computer business, or whatever. Economics are much harsher now. So you really can't compare the way things are done now with how they were 20 years ago. I too am nostalgic for those days when one could just be there for the music and the audience, but it's not necessarily the performers' fault that this is no longer viable. Sure, there are plenty of performers who are in it for the money and fame - just as there were 20 years ago. But the ones who have principles and integrity have a much harder time living up to their ideals than they used to. If you want to stay afloat, you have to make more compromises now. And I'm not saying I think that's OK, because I think something precious has been lost. I'm just saying don't immediately rush to blame the musicians for the fact that the entire world has become far more commercial than ever before. Joyce ------------------------------ Date: 17 Aug 1998 19:21:52 +0000 From: Tim.Cook@Swift.Com (Tim Cook) Subject: RE: out gay artists with straight following? >That's right - that song was on the ?? Ball (I want to say Fireman's Ball, Could be the "Secret Policemans Ball" or the follow-up "Secret Policemans Other Ball" tim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:05:23 -0400 From: Horter!!! Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? At 11:48 AM 8/17/98 -0700, J." Wermont wrote: >How about Jimmy Sommerville and Bronski Beat? They were very, very out >(they had songs like "I Need a Man") and their first album, Age of Consent, >had on the album cover a listing of the ages of sexual consent, and whether >homosexuality was legal, in many countries throughout the world. I remember >their music being played on the radio quite a bit during the 80's. > >Not a very long-lived band, although Sommerville is still performing and >recording, isn't he? I think he still is. In a similar vein, what about Andy Bell of Erasure? Not sure Bronski Beat or Erasure ever had a primarily straight following, though Erasure would be more so, I think. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:33:01 -0700 From: Birdie Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? charley darbo wrote: > Has Kitchens of Distinction come out explicity? Or do they just let > the unambiguous pronouns of their songs speak for them? I remember interviews for their 2nd CD where they brought up their sexuality and lyrical content. Not all of the members are gay. It's a mixed band. > I'm struggling here to come up with a single successful artist who > was out from the beginning of their career. Has RuPaul ever explicitly > come out? Good question! > --and Rufus Wainwright, who's been out from day one, but whose level > of success remains to be seen. I love that Rufus Wainwright has been out from day one and has tied his sexuality into explaining himself and music. > So really, as far as musical artists who have a primarily straight > audience--or even who've been largely accepted by a non-gay-identified > audience (artists outside the Holly Near/Romanovsky&Phillips/Pansy > Division gay-music-ghetto) has there ever been anyone other than Rufus > who's been entirely, explicitly, unambiguously out of the closet from > day one? Not that I can think of. Me either.....except.....Sylvester was someone who was out and had across the board disco hits. I *think* he was in "The Cockettes" before his musical career took off - The Cockettes were a group of outrageous drag queens in San Francisco in the 70's. Most of them died of drug overdoses.....Sylvester died of AIDS. He also played one of the drag queens in "The Rose". Disco was an interesting genre socially as it did cross a lot of social boundraries.....it was gay, it was straight, it was black, it was white, it was asian....it went global. I think Sylvester may be the one artist who came out of the gay ghetto (Castro - Cockettes), was a drag queen, and became an across the board international hit with Disco. If you were a drag queen in the 70's it only meant you were gay. Maybe we should send Rufus a card to congratulate him and send him our best wishes..... Birdie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:49:42 -0700 From: Birdie Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? J. Wermont wrote: > > > not to nitpick, but the original question was "out gay folks ... who have > > been forthcoming from the beginning of their career." > > OK, but someone suggested Elton John for this description. Was he really > out from the beginning? If so, I must've been pretty dense because I missed > that. No, Elton John came out as Bisexual in the early 70's (74?)...somewhat in support of Dusty Springfield who had come out (and was the first to ever come out) in 1971 and who basically was run out of england by the tabloid press because of it. The music industry shunned her as well. She was a huge star in england at the time and gave an interview stating in effect that she "swung both ways". Killed her. Elton John was - is a huge fan of Dusty's and it was around the time he started up his own label "Rocket Records". Anyway, he got a lot of flack for it as well. Dusty and Elton were the first to come out in interviews and during a time when there were hostilities inside and outside the music industry. Hostilities came from gays and straights in the industry. People were afraid of coming out of the closet and afraid of having straight people socially educated enough to grow their own "Gaydar". Anyway, it's the one thing Dusty Springfield regetted about her career as it basically killed it and the reactions she got from people were very upsetting. Paved the way for a lot of drinking - in the 70's. > Actually, come to think of it, haven't both Ferron and Cris Williamson - > both certainly out from the beginning - had fairly large straight followings? In the 70's- Cris had a pretty much exclusive lesbian following. Ferron won favor with the straight press "The female Bob Dylan" and had a crossover. Birdie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:58:09 -0400 From: "Joanna M. Phillips" Subject: MPIBT Had to share this funny that happened to me while I was phoning every darn record store in Cincinnati on the 11th: The sales person answers the phone, there is a LOT of noise and talking in the background. I ask, "Do you have 'Many Worlds Are Born Tonight' by Happy Rhodes?" And the person on the other end asks, "'Minnie Pearl Is Born Tonight'???" I enunciate more slowly and more loudly. Of course they didn't have it. Oh well! At the time I didn't think this was very funny; but now that I *HAVE MY OWN COPY OF MWABT* (I got it today! arrived from Mass Music! Yay!), it's amusing. :-P fleur ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:26:28 -0700 From: "Neil K." Subject: Many worlds in LA I wasn't able to find MWABT in Vancouver, but did find it at the Virgin store on Sunset here in LA. (surprised at how expensive the CDs were - the average CD is much cheaper in Vancouver, particularly when the feeble Canadian dollar is factored in. So Happy and an old Cocteau Twins disc was all I bought here.) They had two copies of MWABT, but no other Happy CDs. Is Samson going to reissue some of them? I vaguely remember something like that being mentioned. Unfortunately I haven't heard it yet because my rental car doesn't have a CD player... waah. I bet it would've been a great soundtrack from my trip through the Joshua Tree desert. - Neil K. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:43:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: women on the radio Neal Copperman wrote: > I still don't listen to more than about an hour of radio a week. But > when I listen, I still don't hear blocks of women performers. I hear > more women performers. Maybe 5 men, 1 women, 5 men, 1 women. I still > almost never here two songs with female vocals in a row. That is really true. I live in the Bay Area and there is only one commercial station I know of that dares to play two female performers back to back (odds are a little better with non-commercial stations). Most of them, even the progressive ones, are much as you've described. What's the reason for this "rule?" Do they believe it will scare off listeners/buyers? Or does it merely scare off advertisers? Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:42:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: re: lilith fair bullshit Jeffrey C. Burka wrote: > Over and over again, it seems to come down to "journalists" looking > for other reasons to rail on LF and Sarah AS A RESULT of the fact > that they don't like her (or Jewel's, or Shawn's, or Natalie's, > or...) MUSIC. This is probably what bothered me most about both articles (the Girlfriends article, and Gina Arnold's in New Times). Gina Arnold is especially guilty of this - she will slam an artist she's reviewing simply on the basis of not liking the genre. So what kind of review is that? If you're going to review a performer, do it on their *individual* strengths and weaknesses. Don't dismiss them out of hand simply because of your prejudices or tastes regarding an entire group of musicians. If someone has such hatred for a genre, I'm not so sure they're qualified to review a musician who plays in that genre. I may or may not agree with everything these writers said about the politics and economics of Lilith Fair, but at least I can respect their opinions on those subjects. But to criticize the musical makeup of the tour on the basis of "that music is boring" is pretty lame. Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:53:25 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? In a message dated 8/17/98 3:31:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, birdies@ix.netcom.com writes: << I'm struggling here to come up with a single successful artist who > was out from the beginning of their career. Has RuPaul ever explicitly > come out? Good question! >> YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!! and for that matter what about milton berle!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:37:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? > Anyway, it's the one thing Dusty Springfield regetted about her > career as it basically killed it and the reactions she got from people > were very upsetting. Paved the way for a lot of drinking - in the 70's. That's really sad. I didn't know this. I didn't follow her career at all (except for that one hit song "You Don't Have to Say You Love Me") but I really loved her husky voice, what little I heard of it. > In the 70's- Cris had a pretty much exclusive lesbian following. Hmm... I remember going to some Cris concerts and seeing men and hetero couples there. I remember her songs being played on local folk radio and being appreciated by men and women alike. (Granted, I lived in Boston, where you could hear almost anything folky on the radio during the 70's.) Cris's first album had a couple of explicitly lesbian songs, but then she became less overtly political (at least about that - she got more interested in environmental concerns). I always remember people comparing her to Meg Christian, who, was always very political about her sexuality in her music. Cris was seen as kind of a "sellout" by comparison. Can you imagine?? Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:57:34 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? I believe Ani di Franco was out from the beginning. Her audience was mainly gay but has changed more which each album................and of course she married a man recently. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:17:52 -0400 From: julesette Subject: Tom Robinson thread > > Sorry my recollection is so vague - does anyone remember the name of that > album? It was a live performance, wasn't it? > > Joyce It was The Secret Policeman's Ball, a charity event for Amnesty International. It was full of live performances (including a great acoustic version of I don't Like Mondays by Boomtown Rats) and was also a film. (1981) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:23:42 -0700 From: Birdie Subject: Re: women on the radio J. Wermont wrote: > What's the reason for this "rule?" Do they believe it will scare off > listeners/buyers? Or does it merely scare off advertisers? Nah....radio is a lock solid boys network. Forms of payola still exist - even KCRW is under charges of that in the press as they have had DJ's that are on the payroll of record companies - like Dreamworks, which is why they drop the name of the label so much. It's all yuppie corporate brown-nosing. Whoever waves around the most cash and plays that whole game gets airtime - sometimes - the most airtime....and it is a boy's club. Whoever has the most money wins. The boys still have the most money...... In fact, from the looks of things - I think men are making more money off of Lilith Fair than women.... Birdie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:35:30 -0700 From: Birdie Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? Tim Cook wrote: > > >Division gay-music-ghetto) has there ever been anyone other than Rufus > >who's been entirely, explicitly, unambiguously out of the closet from > >day one? Not that I can think of. > > Tom Robinson springs to mind. I think he came out in 1978. I don't think he was out at first tho....but was like Ellen Degeneres or anybody else you'd know was gay if you were gay.....but the general public might miss it. My recollection was that when he did come out - his market narrowed down to being a mostly gay one. Laura Nyro - I think was always gay but tried to be straight for awhile early on....but she was always very private. She did however write "Emily" (60's) which every lesbian songwriter after her would probably cite as an inspiration.... Of course, in the 1920's there were a number of gay and bisexual blues singers. But then, for that matter - Sappho was a musican. And about those Romans..... Birdie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:51:15 -0700 From: Birdie Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? J. Wermont wrote: > > In the 70's- Cris had a pretty much exclusive lesbian following. > > Hmm... I remember going to some Cris concerts and seeing men and hetero > couples there. I remember her songs being played on local folk radio > and being appreciated by men and women alike. (Granted, I lived in Boston, > where you could hear almost anything folky on the radio during the 70's.) Ah, I was thinking of San Francisco and the East Bay and Los Angeles. Which, needless to say, had - have massive lesbian scenes. Most of all the gays left Boston for the west coast, what can I say? > Cris's first album had a couple of explicitly lesbian songs, but then she > became less overtly political (at least about that - she got more interested > in environmental concerns). I always remember people comparing her to Meg > Christian, who, was always very political about her sexuality in her music. > Cris was seen as kind of a "sellout" by comparison. Can you imagine?? That's hysterical... Meg has been a devotee of that Indian woman guru for over a decade now....forget her name....but she is absolutely gorgeous and has all these lesbians that follow her around.....chanting. Did Joni Mitchell's "Taming The Tiger" come out yet? I won't buy Jewel (hear that all the time on the radio et al) but I will always buy CD's by Joni. Joni is definitely a member of the livingroom headphone set and Jewel is....public property. Bathrooms, TV's, Car Radios, the works. Birdie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:59:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: Boston to CA migration Birdie wrote: > Ah, I was thinking of San Francisco and the East Bay and Los > Angeles. Which, needless to say, had - have massive lesbian > scenes. Most of all the gays left Boston for the west coast, what > can I say? Yeah, I remember that! In '76 I was involved in a local organization called Boston Women's Music Collective, which sponsored local concerts, had a great newsletter (featuring interviews, reviews, a calendar of events and a classified section - great if you were looking for jamming partners), and once a month they had get-togethers in people's living rooms where women would play together, perform for each other, teach each other songs, rounds, part music, etc. Those were really wonderful. They were a mix of professional and amateur musicians - any woman who wanted to join in was welcome. But some of the better players did some gorgeous stuff. We'd go around the room and each person (or small group - whatever peole were doing) would perform a song for the rest of the group. It was one of the things that helped get me over my fear of performing publicly. I was hardly a pro myself, but I did play and write songs. After everyone had performed their individual numbers, we would then do group singing. Sometimes it would be informal sing-along type stuff, but if the person running it was especially well-organized, she'd teach us all interesting rounds and part music. I really missed the group when it broke up. Why did it break up? Because about 70% of the women moved to San Francisco!! GRRRR... (Heh, and now I'm here, too. :)) Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 11:02:57 +1000 (EST) From: Sherlyn Koo Subject: Re: out gay artists with straight following? Hey folks, Charley said: > I don't know about IG; though my unsupported impression--through > various acquaintances who are/were fans--is that no one ever suspected > they might be straight. Well, IG are well and truly out now, but in the past they did pretty much keep their private lives private. They never hid the fact that they were lesbians (although they were misrepresented in the media as being straight on occasion), they just preferred to make it about the music rather than about their sexuality, and to avoid being pigeonholed, so to speak... Cheers, sherlyn =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= a+e=ig Sherlyn Koo - sherlyn@fl.net.au [Sydney, Australia] "Life can be so dramatic - but it was real at the time..." - The Waifs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:25:04 -0400 From: meredith Subject: POSSIBLE LIVE DATES THIS WEEK Hi! I've received confirmation that Veda is indeed on the road with Kinnie Starr this week. I went to Kinnie's web site and gleaned the following dates. PLEASE CALL THE VENUE TO CONFIRM!!! I hope anyone in Philly gets this note in time to maybe do something about it, depending on the start time of the show. Sorry for the short notice! I hope to see some of you at the NYC area gigs, if they happen. AUG-17 PHILADELPHIA, PA PONTIAC GRILLE AUG-20 WASHINGTON, DC THE METRO AUG-21 PIERMONT TBA AUG-22 ASBURY PARK, NJ JAVA HUT AUG-23 NYC, NY MEOW MIX AUG-24 NYC, NY THE KNITTING FACTORY (@ The Old Office) The only venue I know of in Piermont (assuming that's Piermont, NY) is The Turning Point, but they don't have Kinnie on their calendar for the 21st. Also, The Knitting Factory's web site has no mention of Kinnie on their calendar for the 24th. I'll post more info here as I get it. +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V4 #279 **************************