From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V4 #275 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Saturday, August 15 1998 Volume 04 : Number 275 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... [Neal Copper] Re: a couple more thoughts on the Lilith article [Neal Copperman ] Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... [Birdie ] Re: corporate lilith [Birdie ] Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... [Birdie ] Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... [woj sven-wo] attn: AUSSIES! plea in vain: germaine greer ["the maier family" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 02:55:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Birdie wrote: > Lilith Fair appears to be modeled after one of those tours that are > mostly comprised of men.....Lopalaooza et al I thought it was a widely accepted fact that Lilith was modeled after, and a response to, Lolapalooza. I thought the original shows came after yet another all-male Lolapalooza line-up was announced. In fact, it bares pretty striking resemblances to Lola, which was also the surprise big concert tour of the year. BOth tours had mediocre expectations, and both became the shows to see that year. Also, Lolapalooza featured a lifestyle village of services and oddities, and of course, suffered pretty severe backlashes a few years down the road. And before alternative music became Alternative music, the early Lolapalooza line-ups seemed pretty exciting and diverse. Another point for Sarah's integrity is that she has always adamantly supported having female opening acts, often over the desires of managers and record companies. I don't see how this could have been designed to foist her career or sell more records, it was just something that she believed in. Lilith seems a pretty reasonable outgrowth of that general idea. And while it may be easy to accuse her of coasting on the backs of more talented or popular artists who have the pleasure of opening for her, I can't imagine that it was easier to organize a traveling festival (even with a bevy of assistants and corporate sponsorship) than it would have been to do her own headlining tour. > >I think people > > go because they like the music, not cause Levi's sponsors it. > > The Rolling Stones and others tend to get a lot of beer and alcohol > sponsors..... > > It's no different than sporting events - tennis, soccer, football - all of it > has heavy corporate sponsorship. > > It's who you choose and how they are presented. > > I do know LF didn't pick budwieser or virginia slims.... > > And only chose acceptable to yuppie companies and all of them > have been around longer than the artists in the show and will > continue to be around longer than the artists in the show...... Surprise surprise, they only picked sponsor's who they thought would appeal to their audience. Would be a pretty ridiculous marketing scheme to do it any other way. I like to imagine the Lilith Village filled with the following booths: The Playboy Booth (with free bunny ears!), the guns and ammo booth, booksellers with only Rush Limbaugh books... > And that is merely the truth. > > Puts a whole new perspective on things doesn't it? I dunno, does it? I seem to have missed the curtain going up here. What has just been revealed to me? That there are commercial aspects to Lilith? > So, I perceive LF to be first and foremost a corporate affair with the > artists running 2nd in all the packaging... I guess you see what you see. At the Lilith I went to, I enjoyed a free Starbucks popsicle for 5 minutes (and remembered it for another 20 while I tried to get rid of the popsicle stick and the stickiness). After repeatedly asking people where they got the schedule postcards, someone I was with helped me out and told me that Bjore was a product. (I still haven't tried mine, but it looks like fun, maybe.) I had to walk all the way to the back corner to be exposed to it though. So, all told, I was exposed to maybe 15 minutes of advertising and around 4 hours of music. My experience certainly had the music dominating the the packaging. > then it's presented as this > womens music show and I go "Hey, I think more guys are involved > than girls all together and those guys should have a voice too". While I accept this point, isn't it clearly true that more women are involved than in other similar festivals? After all, it's a celebration of women in music, not women roadies in music. > Where's the B-52's when you really need them.... Hey, wasn't there at least a token guy or two inthe B-52s? > Having local artists aboard is a very savvy way to help attract an > audience. Local artists have built in local followings which in turn the > headlining acts want to tap into. Make no mistake about it - the > headliners are getting a hand from the local talent and that talents > own following (s)... I don't buy this. I could see Love Riot or Dead Girls and Other Stories (the two local acts chosen for the MD Lilith shows) multiple times a month for no more than $5, in more intimate settings playing longer sets. I can't imagine many Love Riot fans decided to drop $40 on Lilith tix so they could see Love Riot play for 15 or 20 minutes. Seems much more likely that the local bands got exposure that they wouldn't have had otherwise. Though my experience was that only a small number of people bothered to check out the Village Stage, with more at the 2nd stage, and the vast majority in line for food and bathrooms while waiting for the mainstage acts. > It's more of a business decision than anything as also they really > don't want to pay to transport and put-up unknowns that don't have a > label or anything to pay for tour expenses. > > Local talent makes sense financially and so they are used. It probably is cheaper, but how much can they really be saving. What is the difference in travel costs for 12 bands versus 13 bands? Pretty negligible, I'd think, particularly when the top 5 bands have the bulk of the big equipment and lights. > The 2nd stage and local artist angle of the show maybe the very > thing that has kept it going....otherwise.....the press would focus > relentlessly on the headliners and the burn-out factor for everybody > would be much higher. I definitely saw more press surrounding the main stage performers. Of course, that's what most people want to read about too, so it makes the same sort of sense as the choice of sponsors. However, the fact that the smaller people managed to get reviews of their albums in papers, and exposure through the concerts is likely to have a big impact on their fan base. Even if it happens sporadically, like it did here. The Washington Post reporter missed all of the early performers, and didn't even mention them in his review. Then again, the Baltimore Sun stressed that Emm Gryner was the real find of Lilith Fair, and that Morcheeba was the tightest band of the day. > The Suffragettes Sessions Tour you'll note has an eclectic mix of > artists - some known, some unknown, some younger - some > older...and while nobody could be considered "trendy" - they all are > marvellously talented and incrediably committed artists and it will be > an amazing and fun show to see. Yes, I suspect fun.... This does sound like much more fun than Lilith. More intimate venues too. I wish I could see it somewhere. The possibility of inspired collaborations between many of those people (Jane Siberry or Lisa Germano matched with anyone) is truly mind boggling. > LF has appeared to be more egocentric to Sarah than an honest > morph or showcase for women artists.... I really don't follow what happens in the press at all. Hell, lots of times, if news isn't reported in ecto, I don't notice it :) So my impressions could be out of whack with what is getting reported. But it seems pretty impossible to call anything completely new and original. It's gotta have roots and influences somewhere. I can't recall a musical festival of this scale that focused on women performers. That seems to be Lilith's claim to fame, and it seems pretty undeniable. Sure, there have been other big traveling festivals, other festivals that focus on women, and probably other everything else, but Lilith certainly have some claims of their own. And much like the advertising, Sarah doesn't dominate the day. She has the closing spot, and certainly the enthusiasm of the crowd was the highest for her set, but that was only a quarter or less of the show. Being there, what I experienced was not Sarah's ego. While her set was pat and unadventurous (though not without its own powerful moments), there were many hours of music to be experienced first, and I wasn't bombarded with Sarah while that was going on. Neal np: Veda Hille - Live at CB's Gallery (Thanks woj!... all the tapes are excellent. Veda, Meryn Cadell and Andy Stochanski covering Jane Says! wow! And Hugo Largo's appaulingly sloppy and utterly essential version of Leaving on a Jet Plane was heavenly.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 02:58:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: a couple more thoughts on the Lilith article On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu wrote: > The fact that when you turn on > a radio now (ick. if you listen to the radio now) and hear > blocks of Sheryl Crow, Shawn Colvin, Sarah McLachlan, and > even Fiona Apple--could that have happened without Lilith Fair? I still don't listen to more than about an hour of radio a week. But when I listen, I still don't hear blocks of women performers. I hear more women performers. Maybe 5 men, 1 women, 5 men, 1 women. I still almost never here two songs with female vocals in a row. > The Indigo Girls, sadly, were *never* played on the radio here Wow, I thought Closer to Fine and Galileo were always on the radio. Neal np: a loud rattling fan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 03:00:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ********************** Vickie Mapes (vickie@wwa.com) ********************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Vickie Mapes Wed August 15 1956 WretchAwry Martin Dougiamas Wed August 20 1969 Positive Tori Amos Thu August 22 1963 Leo Sam Warren Tue August 22 1961 Leo Henk Van Wulpen Sat August 22 1970 Leo Kerry White Wed August 22 1951 Exact Leo/Virgo Don Gibson Wed August 26 1959 Virgo Marcel Rijs Mon August 31 1970 A rose growing old Meredith Tarr Wed September 01 1971 Virgo Mary Lou Rowe Sat September 03 1960 Virgo Scott Zimmerman Mon September 04 1972 Virgo Mike Mendelson Fri September 04 1964 Virgo Richard Dean Wed September 06 1967 Virgo David Blank-Edelman Sat September 09 1967 Neon Holly Tominack Thu September 10 1970 Virgo Sharon Nichols (Rhodeways) Wed September 11 1963 Victim of Christianity Heather Russell Tue September 11 1900 Total Virgosity Karron Lynn Lane Thu September 14 3651 Ophelia Virgo - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 01:42:05 -0700 From: Birdie Subject: Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... Neal Copperman wrote: > > On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Birdie wrote: > I thought it was a widely accepted fact that Lilith was modeled after, and > a response to, Lolapalooza. I didn't see any mention of it in the Girlfriends article so I brought it up in relations to all the "womens music" traffic........ >Also, Lolapalooza featured a lifestyle > village of services and oddities, and of course, suffered pretty severe > backlashes a few years down the road. Yes, and 20 plus years ago same type of village was at The Michigan Womens festival....and in the 60's at The Renassance Fairs..... > Another point for Sarah's integrity is that she has always adamantly > supported having female opening acts, often over the desires of managers > and record companies. I don't see how this could have been designed to > foist her career or sell more records, it was just something that she > believed in. Lilith seems a pretty reasonable outgrowth of that general > idea. Do you really believe that was her main motivation for LF? The careers of the other women? Excuse me while I giggle..... > And while it may be easy to accuse her of coasting on the backs of more > talented or popular artists who have the pleasure of opening for her All the other artists are her opening acts? I can see why Annie Lennox and 350 others turned her down. >, I > can't imagine that it was easier to organize a traveling festival (even > with a bevy of assistants and corporate sponsorship) than it would have > been to do her own headlining tour. Huh? her agents and management and record company were all involved in the organisation and packaging and acquisition of talent. Also obtaining the corporate sponsorship. This is what I mean by it being a packaged corporate event. I honestly think a lot of other people are far more responsible for LF than Sarah is......I think she is the spokesperson and figurehead. I think what she may be best at - is getting people to help and do things for her, including all those opening acts of hers....hee hee This is *not* like a bunch of artists got together and decided to go out on the road. It was always presented as something Sarah and her agents and management and record company put together. Because of that it has always struck me - and I do believe others - as having been primarily business movtivated. > Surprise surprise, they only picked sponsor's who they thought would > appeal to their audience. And be healthy for them....tho those Starbucks frozen coffee drinks pack something like 400 calories each...... Starbucks is now in Thailand. Capitalism is a yuppie's form of sports. And really as long as people are not heavily exploited - the environment or people's health isn't trashed - and a person has a life aside from making $$, it can be a good thing...... > > Puts a whole new perspective on things doesn't it? > > I dunno, does it? I seem to have missed the curtain going up here. What > has just been revealed to me? That there are commercial aspects to > Lilith? Nah it would just appear that you missed the 60's and possibly parts of the 70's..... Once upon a time it was about the music and the people...... Before record companies, agents, managers, and sponsors had a chance to figure out 999 ways to milk a buck out of it by putting all their fingers in the pie. It's like everybody used to have parties at their houses but now they go to Chuck E Cheese parties instead. I'm happy you enjoyed your ice cream bar..... > > So, I perceive LF to be first and foremost a corporate affair with the > > artists running 2nd in all the packaging... > > I guess you see what you see. How old are you? What people don't know - people don't miss. I can feel what is missing......I can tell you don't. > My experience certainly had the music dominating the packaging. The packaging is the agents on the phone to starbucks in one ear and Jewel's management in the other ear....it's the structure and form and content as well. [snippage] > While I accept this point, isn't it clearly true that more women are > involved than in other similar festivals? After all, it's a celebration > of women in music, not women roadies in music. No, at the "other" womens festivals - basically all of the performers and tech crew are all women. Michigan was 100% women on and off the stage when I was there. A guy definitety owned the honey wagon tho... > > Where's the B-52's when you really need them.... > > Hey, wasn't there at least a token guy or two in the B-52s? guys, girls, straight, gay, black, white.......and they all have *such* fun together..... > > Having local artists aboard is a very savvy way to help attract an > > audience. Local artists have built in local followings which in turn the > > headlining acts want to tap into. Make no mistake about it - the > > headliners are getting a hand from the local talent and that talents > > own following (s)... >Though my experience was that only a small number of people > bothered to check out the Village Stage, with more at the 2nd stage, and > the vast majority in line for food and bathrooms while waiting for the > mainstage acts. This is generally how it goes at Michigan (which had main and smaller stages 20+ years ago) and other similiarly formatted shows. > > It's more of a business decision than anything as also they really > > don't want to pay to transport and put-up unknowns that don't have a > > label or anything to pay for tour expenses. > > > > Local talent makes sense financially and so they are used. > > It probably is cheaper, but how much can they really be saving. What is > the difference in travel costs for 12 bands versus 13 bands? Pretty > negligible, I'd think, particularly when the top 5 bands have the bulk of > the big equipment and lights. Ah....are they travelling by chartered plane or by bus? Equipment obviously all goes by semi.....it's still one main stage of lights - one main stage of sound....every group doesnt have their own monitors - sound system. In many many ways it cost the same to have one band as it does to have 13. A chartered plane could carry all the performers - band members. The areas where costs go up for sure are in food and lodging.... > > The Suffragettes Sessions Tour you'll note has an eclectic mix of > > artists - some known, some unknown, some younger - some > > older...and while nobody could be considered "trendy" - they all are > > marvellously talented and incrediably committed artists and it will be > > an amazing and fun show to see. Yes, I suspect fun.... > > This does sound like much more fun than Lilith. More intimate venues too. > I wish I could see it somewhere. The possibility of inspired > collaborations between many of those people (Jane Siberry or Lisa Germano > matched with anyone) is truly mind boggling. And theres none of the flack around it that LF has generated.....and it wasn't unhappily inspired by a tour of men. > > LF has appeared to be more egocentric to Sarah than an honest > > morph or showcase for women artists.... > > I really don't follow what happens in the press at all. The way it has gone down from just a casual peek is that it was sarah's show and everybody else are her opening acts.... ;-) But seriously, one did get the impression it was all her idea etc etc..... > It's gotta have roots and influences somewhere. I can't recall a musical > festival of this scale that focused on women performers. That seems to be > Lilith's claim to fame, and it seems pretty undeniable. For your generation.... In the late 30's & early 40's during the war there were swingbands and entire jazz orchestras that were 100% women..... and they toured all over. Every decade has it's group of outstanding women singer-songwriters musicans and due to sheer youth and a lack of knowledge - they always do seem to think they are the best ever. >, there have > been other big traveling festivals, other festivals that focus on women, > and probably other everything else, but Lilith certainly have some claims > of their own. Most corporate sponsorship at a womens music event. Hands down. > And much like the advertising, Sarah doesn't dominate the day. But she dominated all the press I saw. The interviews were with her and not with the other women performing.....so, she has gotten the lions share of press being the figurehead while her agents, management and label were all putting it together. This changed on this tour as the focus has shifted to the other artists. > While her set was > pat and unadventurous (though not without its own powerful moments), there > were many hours of music to be experienced first, and I wasn't bombarded > with Sarah while that was going on. If I had the vibe that the show was about a bunch of artists who wanted to get together and play for an audience....... Instead of "We're doing this because the boys did that" "I'm going to get ahead with myself, agents, manager, label and other artists" 'we are going to get sponsorship" You know...if it was just artists getting together to play and they shut-up about everything else except their art and craft and the charity work they were doing.....I might have perceived LF as being a cool thing. But you know, it really has been about all these other things...all of which I obviously find distracting and disheartening..... Birdie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:35:33 -0400 (EDT) From: jason and jill Subject: Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... > Yes, and 20 plus years ago same type of village was at The Michigan > Womens festival....and in the 60's at The Renassance Fairs..... Oh so what...who cares? And Prince Esterhazy had all sorts of events around Esterhaza before the premeire of L'Incontro improviso and a masked ball afterwards, with a fair in the village the next day. So all those 60's fairs were ripping off 18th century Hungarian royalty. :) > Do you really believe that was her main motivation for LF? The careers of the > other women? > > Excuse me while I giggle..... I know it's impossible for frickin' hippies to believe that anyone under the age of 40 could do anything for any reason other than personal capital betterment, but such a strange, bizzare thing could have happened. > >, I > > can't imagine that it was easier to organize a traveling festival (even > > with a bevy of assistants and corporate sponsorship) than it would have > > been to do her own headlining tour. > > Huh? her agents and management and record company were all involved in > the organisation and packaging and acquisition of talent. Also obtaining the > corporate sponsorship. > > This is what I mean by it being a packaged corporate event. Sorry, should have done it all with an abacus and carrier pidgeons. > I honestly think a lot of other people are far more responsible for LF than > Sarah is......I think she is the spokesperson and figurehead. Hmm...let's see. First of all, she thought of the g--damned thing. That's gotta count for something. Nah, guess it doesn't. I'm sure someone else would have done Lilith that year if that greedy little nitwit Sarah and her corporate minions (and get serious here, how much of a corporate giant is nettwerk? I would guess that most of the employed people on this list work for a company that has more employees, more revenue and greater assets than nettwerk. We're talking about a pretty young, small, independant label that before Sarah had as their main artists Skinny Puppy. Yup, nettwerk was a corporate giant from all those sales of Too Dark Park.) > It was always presented as something Sarah and her agents and > management and record company put together. > > Because of that it has always struck me - and I do believe others - as having > been primarily business movtivated. Maybe because it was something Sarah and management and record company put together. Her and all those guys dripping in money from Too Dark Park, remember. > Capitalism is a yuppie's form of sports. While smoking pot is a hippie's. > Nah it would just appear that you missed the 60's and possibly parts of the > 70's..... > > Once upon a time it was about the music and the people...... > > Before record companies, agents, managers, and sponsors had a chance to > figure out 999 ways to milk a buck out of it by putting all their fingers in the pie. That's right, absolutely right. In the 60's and 70's you didn't have bands forced to tour endlessly because their managers pocketed most of the money. You didn't have groups being manufactured by the advertising department. You didn't have groups being assembled by managers based on their looks. You didn't have groups playing "concerts" where they played air guitar and their record was played into the PA. You didn't have songs getting air play based on how much coke the DJ got from label reps. You didn't have labels cheating artists out of their royalties. You didn't have artists racially segregated into separate genres. In the 1970's Miles Davis was free to mix jazz, rock and funk without being flayed by critics in all those genres. Tours were spontaneous creations of the groups, not long treks organized by labels in which groups were made to go from city to city to city for months on end without seeing a dime for their labors. Promoters were kind-hearted, warm, generous cats that took only a small percentage, really just some pot money, when they organized a concert. (And labels never picked a couple of their groups to promote while leaving others to fend for themselves.) And Miles and his sidemen were never concerned about how much their might get paid for a gig. > The packaging is the agents on the phone to starbucks in one ear and Jewel's > management in the other ear....it's the structure and form and content as well. And those acts at Woodstock just happened to be driving by and said "wow, dude, what are those kids doing in that field? Let's go play!!!" > This is generally how it goes at Michigan (which had main and smaller stages > 20+ years ago) and other similiarly formatted shows. I believe the Prince also had a string quartet at Esterhaza, and Haydn wrote a couple of ditties for them. > And theres none of the flack around it that LF has generated.....and it wasn't > unhappily inspired by a tour of men. > But she dominated all the press I saw. The interviews were with her and not > with the other women performing.....so, she has gotten the lions share of press > being the figurehead while her agents, management and label were all putting > it together. > > This changed on this tour as the focus has shifted to the other artists. You see what you want to see. There were interviews with Sarah, interviews with Paula Cole, interviews with Jewel, Fiona Apple was getting tons of press, and when Time did an article about Lilith it wasn't Sarah getting the cover... Sorry for tone of my response. A little too much superior "oh you poor stupid kids" in your posts. Sorry you are offended by Sarah doing something that was good for her and for dozens of other acts. Jason ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:13:10 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: corporate lilith i'm going to try to keep this brief, but let me put my biases on the table first, ok? i hate sports arenas, and most televised commercial sports, like you wouldn't believe. but even i was saddened when i saw that san francisco's venerable "candlestick park" had been saddled with the supremely ugly monicker "3com park," okay? so this is the first, and probably the last, time anyone will ever see me go to bat on _behalf_ of corporate sponsorship. but i do think corporate sponsorship is a necessary evil of large packaged tours toward the end of the 20th century -- whether it's of "women's music" or not is irrelevant. i think it's spurious to draw parallels between tours now and tours before, oh, 1985 or so. the tour (not the local promoter, mind you) now loses money on ticket sales in virtually every case, and only makes it up in merchandising. that means you need money up front, which means you need loans from banks, which need to be guaranteed that you can pay them back, which means corporate sponsorship or donated resources (or really, really deep pockets). for better or worse, tours now have an immense array of logistical expenses that jazz age tours didn't. they've got to carry liability insurance, fer chrissakes. that being the case, it's fair and reasonable for ms. mclachlan, nettwerk etc. to make at least enough money to be able to put on next year's lilith fair, and it's fair and reasonable for the sponsors to make at least enough money to compensate for their upfront investment. that's how capitalism works. you may not like it, and you can choose to live outside it. i don't think it's very fair to throw rocks at people who are trying to work for positive change within the system, because i generally think that's harder than throwing rocks, but that may just mean i've been co-opted by the system. (what positive things do i think lilith fair works to accomplish? attacking people's preconceptions about music; providing exposure for under-recognized artists are the two foremost) and incidentally -- even though lilith fair has large-scale corporate sponsorship, it's hard for me to see their efforts to include both regional musical artists and local artists and crafts people as anything other than building community (in the large sense) solidarity. you'd need a balance sheet to convince me that either of those were profit-increasing strategies. and finally: > How old are you? cheap shot. not worthy of reasonable discourse between adults. - -- d. n.p. veda hille _path of a body_ - - oh,no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmayowel@access.digex.net - - and dmw@mwmw.com ... get yr pathos at http://www.pathetic-caverns.com/ - - new reviews! tunes, books, flicks, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:14:36 -0700 From: Birdie Subject: Re: corporate lilith dmw wrote: > > and finally: > > > How old are you? > > cheap shot. not worthy of reasonable discourse between adults. No, not a cheap shot. Once upon a time people were inspired by music and getting together with other people to hear it. As the rest of your post and really, most of the discussion I have ever seen about LF goes.....anywhere....the discussion is about anything BUT the music. Which is a huge reason why I have never been inspired to go to it. Birdie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:27:11 -0700 From: Birdie Subject: Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... jason and jill wrote: > Sorry you are offended by Sarah doing > something that was good for her and for dozens of other acts. No you are not. Besides, I'm under 40. And, it hasn't been good for dozens and dozens of other acts. "There's so many women out there now, we don't want to sign anymore" Birdie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:21:16 -0400 (EDT) From: jason and jill Subject: Re: corporate lilith > As the rest of your post and really, most of the discussion I have > ever seen about LF goes.....anywhere....the discussion is about > anything BUT the music. That's b/c there's a lilith-fair list for people to share about going to LF and the music. When LF comments have appeared on other lists this year, it has mostly been for grumps to bitch about LF, with the many-times-repeated gripes you've been giving. Or people forwarding such bitchfests from the local papers or online grllsites. Meanwhile, every day I read about people discovering new artists, meeting people at LF, hanging out with people they've only known from lists, picking up at LF cds they haven't been able to find (omigod, that's something bad, though, b/c those cds are *sold* by *!*corporations*!*, so scratch that...) and women spending all day at a concert where no one yells "show your tits" to the artists onstage or the women in the audience. Meanwhile, keep gridning that axe. It'll make a heck of a toothpick someday. :) Jason ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:25:18 -0400 From: woj sven-woj Subject: Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... also sprach Neal Copperman (elan@access.digex.net): >np: Veda Hille - Live at CB's Gallery (Thanks woj!... all the tapes are >excellent. Veda, Meryn Cadell and Andy Stochanski covering Jane Says! wow! >And Hugo Largo's appaulingly sloppy and utterly essential version of >Leaving on a Jet Plane was heavenly.) 1) they were covering jane's addiction (gee, they were fronted by the guy who organized lollapalooza; does that mean veda can't play lilith anymore?) 2) i'm not so sure that's hugo largo doing "leaving on a jet plane". mimi goese may have been amongst the crowd on stage, but so was michael stipe, natalie merchant, jenny homer (from downey mildew) and, at one time or another, steve wynn. no clue who was playing music at that particular junction in time either. (it was only recently that i found out that was taken from a texas hotel benefit concert -- i'd always thought it was a goofy get-together at mccabe's.) woj n.p. mwabt as soon as i flip the tape ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:55:15 +1000 From: "the maier family" Subject: attn: AUSSIES! plea in vain: germaine greer hi guys... i want to apologise to everybody for non-musical content, but i am only posting out of absolute sheer bloody desperation! i am a women's studies double at university, and on july 22nd germaine greer was jana wendt's guest on the ABC program "uncensored". i taped this, and now i've gone to watch it and discovered there must have been something wrong with the tape as all it recorded was fuzz! I could belt my head against a brick wall 10,0000 times over as this show was *really* important to me, and i was planning to use it as source material in a major piece of assessment this semester -- if *any* australians out there either watch "uncensored" or tape it or know someone who does or might know someone who does [it screens after "wildside", wednesday nights, 9.30pm on the ABC] can you PLEASE get in touch with me -- this is a matter of massive importance to me, and i would be exceedingly grateful to anybody for any help whatsoever! *hoping in vain* heidi. - -- "it just seems like you agree to have a certain personality or something for no reason, just to make things easier for everyone but when you think about it, how do you know it's even you?" ~ angela chase 'my so-called life'. ~*~ "i'm a winter girl; i like coming out when things are desolate and everybody's about to slit their wrists." ~ *tori amos* ~*~ please check out: http://www.protest.org and help to speak out against pauline hanson and one nation's divisive policies. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 12:00:18 +1000 From: "the maier family" Subject: attn australians: "uncensored" on the ABC - plea for heeelllp! hi guys... i want to apologise to everybody for non-musical content, but i am only posting out of absolute sheer bloody desperation! i am a women's studies double at university, and on july 22nd germaine greer was jana wendt's guest on the ABC program "uncensored". i taped this, and now i've gone to watch it and discovered there must have been something wrong with the tape as all it recorded was fuzz! I could belt my head against a brick wall 10,0000 times over as this show was *really* important to me, and i was planning to use it as source material in a major piece of assessment this semester -- if *any* australians out there either watch "uncensored" or tape it or know someone who does or might know someone who does [it screens after "wildside", wednesday nights, 9.30pm on the ABC] can you PLEASE get in touch with me -- this is a matter of massive importance to me, and i would be exceedingly grateful to anybody for any help whatsoever! *hoping in vain* heidi. - -- "it just seems like you agree to have a certain personality or something for no reason, just to make things easier for everyone but when you think about it, how do you know it's even you?" ~ angela chase 'my so-called life'. ~*~ "i'm a winter girl; i like coming out when things are desolate and everybody's about to slit their wrists." ~ *tori amos* ~*~ please check out: http://www.protest.org and help to speak out against pauline hanson and one nation's divisive policies. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 22:36:31 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: corporate lilith.....and lets get a grip you know, personally people, i go to a concert.......any concert, in any venue....i dont give a damn about who is sponsering it or who is selling what.....tour books, t-shirts, beer, condoms or, popsicles. all i care about is the energy given off by the band. everything else is bullshit. we live in a society that is profit motivated....deal with it and find a balance. there is only good music and bad music. other than that, are there any other opinions on happys cd??? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 22:37:07 -0400 From: woj sven-woj Subject: mwabt quest 'lo 'philes, until this morning, meredith and i had no luck finding a copy of _many worlds_ around morristown, nj, new have, ct or rockford, il. i hadn't gotten to all of the stores around new haven, so we called a few places this morning and finally found a store (exile on main st, in branford) which was stocking the album, but they had sold all the copies they had. fortunately, they are getting more in this coming week and we will have our copy on tuesday. in the meantime, the taped copy we have will do. in the meantime, going to all those stores has had its side-effects... my favorite purchase this week is liz phair's _whitechocolatespaceegg_, which i like a lot more than i expected to. it's fairly smooth and slick and the first couple listens left me yearning for _exile in guyville_, but when i finally got over my preconceptions, it turned out to be a really fine record. one of the things i like about her tunes is that they have a, um, timeless is the wrong word, but is something like i'm getting at. take _guyville_. the first time i listened to it was like putting on a old comfortable shirt -- instantly familiar, leaving an indelible mark. this record isn't *quite* the same way, but there is still that strong sense of melody which plays a role in generating that feeling. less interesting was love spirals downwards' _flux_. i had seen some of the blurbs for this record which sang high praises. for instance, option's scott becker wrote: "A great contemporary record. 'flux' sounds like a more genuine version of what Mono was aiming for: a pop-electronic fusion with a gentle jungle undertow." which, i guess, got my expectations up. it's not a *bad* record, but ethereal vocals over shimmery guitars and a drum machine aren't *that* novel and some songs don't really click. maybe i'm more turned off by the hype than by the record. hmmm. lisa germano's new one, _slide_ also came out in the past couple weeks. i finally remembered to pick it up on wednesday. (thursday? whatever.) i always have trouble parsing her records as they are dense and it's difficult to distinguish the songs from each other. suffice to say that this one is no different from the others -- a good thing in my book. yea, verily. finally, emmylou harris and spyboy (the band which backed her while she toured to support the _wrecking ball_ album) have released a live album, also called spyboy. it covers a variety of songs from her career, some very old and some very new, many of the former are reinterpreted with the band. if anyone saw her live in the past couple years, this record is a great way to remember it and anyone not all that familiar with her music except for _wrecking ball_ (i.e., me) may enjoy the glimpses backwards through time. i know i did and will. okay, enjough non-happy/non-lilith talk for tonight. woj ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V4 #275 **************************