From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V4 #249 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, July 28 1998 Volume 04 : Number 249 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: The 'problem' with Samson's home page ["Joseph S. Zitt" ] 3rd try: Help! HGP97 [kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white)] The "son of Sam" (hoot!) site [charley darbo ] From Samson to EMI [Philip David Morgan ] Antidote to MUZAK [Chip Lueck ] [none] [kerry white ] Longfellow St. Concerts August 2nd show in Boston [Chris Snyder ] help!-> HGP'97 [kerry white ] LIVING ROOM TOUR SCHEDULE [TJtalken@aol.com] Susan Werner news [Jeff Wasilko ] Help! [Tim.Cook@Swift.Com (Tim Cook)] Re: madman [charley darbo ] Re: New Releases for July 28th ["Michael P. Hayes" ] Re: what would Freud say??? ["Michael P. Hayes" ] Re: 1968!! [FAMarcus@aol.com] Tori Concert (was Re: Highlights) [JavaHo@aol.com] Solex ["Donald G. Keller" ] Re: Help! [Joseph Zitt ] Re: From Samson to EMI [Joseph Zitt ] Re: what would Freud say??? [Joseph Zitt ] Re: madman; heather nova [Paul2k@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:43:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: The 'problem' with Samson's home page On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Phil Sainty wrote: > This means that if your web browser is displaying a blank page to those > who don't have the shockwave plug-in, it is the fault of the *browser*, > as a plug-in is certainly a 'resource'. > > So Samson are in actual fact doing it right! If a road was built so that, say, %30 of the cars that drive it skid off and hit a tree, and was built in this way even after it was known that this many cars would do this, even if the road were built to a spec (that has no effective impact on anyone's development) and the cars violated it - -- would you say that the road builders were "doing it right"? Regardless of where you choose to place blame, the clear, practical effect is that a large number of users can not see the site. > Unfortunately, we have to live with the fact that many web browser > applications are stupid... Yup. And to build a site ignoring their behaviour can only be attributed to either ignorance or arrogance. > A simple text link added below the object will make everyone happy, > methinks. (except, perhaps, Samson's web designer :) This is an obvious first step. Who do we have to slap with a wet fish to get it to happen? - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:51:16 -0400 From: "Kevin Pease" Subject: Re: The 'problem' with Samson's home page >hmmm... I get a page with a graphic. Didn't load the image, but it was >a hyperlink to "home.html" so I followed that and got to the main page. >Now, the spec says: ``If the user agent is not able to render the >object for whatever reason (configured not to, lack of resources, wrong >architecture, etc.), it must try to render its contents.'' >This means that if your web browser is displaying a blank page to those >who don't have the shockwave plug-in, it is the fault of the *browser*, >as a plug-in is certainly a 'resource'. >So Samson are in actual fact doing it right! The problem is this: Samson is "doing it right" with respect to the formal specs of HTML 4 specification. However, this does not mean that their user interface is well designed or well thought out. The purpose of a company's web site is to provide information about their product or service, which will, in turn, hopefully generate more revenue for that company. To create a website that is not easily viewable across all platforms is a waste of money & time, because the company is then limiting the potential audience they will reach. Good interface design in this circumstance dictates that you keep it simple at the front door. If you want all sorts of funky-ness after that, offer an option for text-only/low-tech browsing, AND the "bells-and-whistles" site. That way, *anybody* who wants to come to the company's web site, and get information about their product / service can do so. To do otherwise is a tremendous waste of money on the part of any company that would put up a web site. We all know that browsers have been known to barf on various scripts, plugins, HTML tags, etc, and I'm sure Samson's web designers know this as well. To not have tested this, or planned for an alternate route into the web site is poor design. Yes, their code is 100% technically correct, and it follows the HTML 4 spec. But their "front door" is an inappropriate use of a plugin that not everybody has or wants, and it shows that they didn't t est it too thoroughly before putting it up; Common sense dictates that, if you're 100% dead-set on using a plugin in the first page loaded on your site, you do negative testing in this sort of situation, as well. (In other words - will major browsers that don't have shockwave installed display the page correctly if the user elects to not download the plugin?) Kevin - ---------- Kevin Pease kbpease@boston.crosswinds.net (ICQ UIN: 3106063) (AOL Instant Messenger: kbpease) http://www.crosswinds.net/boston/~kbpease "Well if I were an angel, I could fly over Jordan, and I wouldn't need no Greyhound to save my soul, but maybe that's a good thing, 'cause I'll be home before I know it, And if I was an angel, I'd have a long way to go..." --(Matraca Berg)-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:46:00 -0700 From: "Larry S. Greenfield" Subject: Re: The 'problem' with Samson's home page Whoa! I am totally tripping. I may be alone here, but my right index finger is hurting from hitting the "delete" button. I am sure that everyone hs valid points here, but it's all "over my ears." Just an idea? Maybe a "side" list on how to give Samson a haircut could be set up? I'll go to my room now. - -=-Larry-=- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 06:52:24 +1200 From: Phil Sainty Subject: Re: The 'problem' with Samson's home page Erk. I've just seen another post on this topic, and realised that I'd had javascript enabled on my browser, which resulted in the HTML on the Samson home page appearing rather simpler to me than it actually is. I had been pleasently suprised to think that was being supported, but I presume it's actually the javascript doing its thing, and I suspect there aren't the same rules for EMBED that there are for OBJECTs (which doubtless invalidates my comment that theoretically it should work for everyone.) The source also looks messy with and <NOSCRIPT> blocks appearing _after_ the OBJECT has been closed. I've never used EMBED/NOEMBED or SCRIPT/NOSCRIPT before, but that sort of overlapping can't possibly be legal (?). How disappointing... > If a road was built so that, say, %30 of the cars that drive it skid > off and hit a tree, and was built in this way even after it was > known that this many cars would do this Admittedly I'm an idealist when it comes to web specs; my take is that the author shouldn't _have_ to check different browsers -- it's the responsibility of the browser developers to get it right, IMO, and if the author writes clean HTML, they should be able to be confident that readers will be able to see everything. However, for all my wishes that browser developers would write perfect applications, once the HTML authors have been alerted to a serious problem with a simple solution, they really ought to do something about it. (Particularly when it's a commercial site.) > even if the road were built to a spec (that has no effective impact > on anyone's development) and the cars violated it -- would you say > that the road builders were "doing it right"? This analogy implies that car makers are obligated to build cars that work properly on 'properly-built' roads. Cars that didn't would be branded unsafe to drive! word would get around, law suits would be won, and the manufacturers would stop making those cars pronto :) Imagine if car makers started demanding that roads be made twice as wide because the brakes on their cars were substandard... > Regardless of where you choose to place blame, the clear, practical > effect is that a large number of users can not see the site. Yes indeed. - -Philip np. Dead Can Dance, "Within the Realm of a Dying Sun" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:58:12 -0500 (CDT) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: The 'problem' with Samson's home page On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Phil Sainty wrote: > > even if the road were built to a spec (that has no effective impact > > on anyone's development) and the cars violated it -- would you say > > that the road builders were "doing it right"? > > This analogy implies that car makers are obligated to build cars that > work properly on 'properly-built' roads. Cars that didn't would be > branded unsafe to drive! word would get around, law suits would be > won, and the manufacturers would stop making those cars pronto :) But that extension of the analogy doesn't match the current situation. If memory serves, the spec was finalized after the browsers were released. A more apt extension would be the passage of a law requiring all cars to fit into tunnels designed to the proportions of a Mazda Miata. One would hope that no one would actually build such a tunnel, but existing cars would be grandfathered. n.p. David Bowie, Sound and Vision (disk 3) - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:18:23 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: siouxsie Back to music: am I the only one here who's pantheon would include Siouxsie Sioux? - Larne I would most definetely second that nomination ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:49:38 +1200 From: Phil Sainty <ectophil@netlink.co.nz> Subject: Re: The 'problem' with Samson's home page > But that extension of the analogy doesn't match the current > situation. If memory serves, the spec was finalized after the > browsers were released. A more apt extension would be the passage > of a law requiring all cars to fit into tunnels designed to the > proportions of a Mazda Miata. One would hope that no one would > actually build such a tunnel, but existing cars would be > grandfathered. :) Yes, I admit that there will necessarily be a transitional period if the spec changes such that it *alters* existing behaviours; but when entirely new features are added to the spec, and a browser claims to support them, you ought to be able to expect that the browser will act the way it's supposed to, and thus you ought to be able to write your HTML based on this assumption. (I've seen some *horribly* convoluted code written in order to work around all the different ways that MSIE and Netscape handle things, and it just _should not_ be necessary.) Also, I was primarily talking about the rendering of an <OBJECT>, and these were first proposed *long* before IE4. (and even if some of it has changed since then, the aspect in question -- that the browser must always render the best information it can -- certainly hasn't changed! so any browser that purported to handle <OBJECT> and failed to do this would be severely broken. I'll attone for all this HTML talk with a music question <g> - -Philip ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:07:00 +1200 From: Phil Sainty <ectophil@netlink.co.nz> Subject: P J Harvey... "Is This Desire?" ??? Tim Finney wrote a few days back... > Polly's new album is called "Is This Desire?" and is out in September. > Can't wait, personally. To which I say "Yay!!!!!!" :) (Is this desire for Is This Desire? ?) Does anyone have any idea what sort of style she's aiming for?? "To Bring You My Love" was quite the surprise!, so I'd love to know what she'll do this time around. (hmmm... DCD's finished... must be time to play TBYML :) - -Philip ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:13:15 -0500 (CDT) From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: 3rd try: Help! HGP97 Hi, Murphy's Law sez that all 3 should show up at the same time! I am making a "best of" the HPG/HBP tapes since 1994. I have found some stuff that I am getting more and more intrigued with. On side C of HGP 1997, after "Everyone's Gone To The Moon", Mitch says,"For filler titles see the playlist." I have lost the playlist and would like to know: who is/are the first 3 cuts of this filler. Please help if you can, thanks! KrW TV or not TV? That is the question. To suffer the lies of outrageous pitchmen, or to slit your throat with an electro-coated stainless steel blade? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:42:14 -0700 (PDT) From: charley darbo <lissener@yahoo.com> Subject: The "son of Sam" (hoot!) site Forgot who said that originally, but I hooted on this end. (Perhaps a poor choice of words . . .) First of all, on the irrelevance of this thread to the list and the exercise it's giving your delete buttons: A) What is your delete button for? "I wish you guys would drop this Happy Rhodes thread because my 'p' and my 'h' keys are getting a real workout. Don't even _ask_ about my space bar!" If your delete button is almost empty and only has a few more deletes left in it and you just want to preserve them, well then forget I said anything. B) A thread about the Internet dissemination of Happy Rhodes info, on an Internet mailinglist devoted to the dissemination of Happy Rhodes info. You're right: how irrelevant can you get? So anyway. Here's my take. (How many of you really thought I'd sit this one out? As if.) I have designed a small number of websites, some of them for money even. The overarching principle of web design, as far as I'm concerned, is: Try to reach the people you're trying to reach. I know, I know; very technical stuff. But let me translate. Decide who your audience is, and make all subsequent design decisions with that group in mind. For example, when I designed a site for a retail company that wanted to reach as many people as possible, I cross tested the site on as many browsers and platforms as I could get a hold of, and at as many different screen resolutions and color levels as my monitor would do, and as many download speeds as I could test. I adapted or eliminated any important information that was not universally cross compatible. It has always irritated my delicate artistic sensibilities to work with a lowest common denominator as a standard, but for obvious reasons, I attempted nothing fancier on the commercial sites I did. When I made a web version of my resume for high-end graphic design firms, I didn't test it on Lynx. When I started designing an online arts magazine, I made no rules regarding universal accessibility of submissions: the artist would reach whoever they wanted to reach. Should we insist that all paintings be adapted to play on a walkman? Should all poetry be written in Esperanto? Well, _I_ don't think so. But should a web site whose explicit purpose is to disseminate information as widely as possible _to_the_public_at_large_ be designed with l.c.d. accessibility in mind? To the extent that they want to reach a wide audience, of course. To do otherwise is, being against their own best interests, just plain stupid. Anti-evolutionary. _Begging_ to be culled from the herd. The gofer in my office, Scotty, the guy who replace lightlbulbs and delivers mail, asked the office manager, Margaret, to order some adaptors for these lightbulbs that wouldn't fit in the fixtures for which they were ordered. She hesitated a moment and asked him, "Should we just order the right kind of lightbulb?" Scotty replied, "The lightbulbs are fine. They just need adaptors." So Margaret and I will say to each other as we pass, things like "Hey, Margaret? Could you order me some adaptors for my shoes so they'll fit my feet?" "Sure; could you get me a butt adaptor so's I can fit in my chair?" Not a philosophy that would meet with resounding success when used in a marketing context, I imagine. So, no, I haven't ordered my Samson adaptor yet. I'm waiting for them to get the kind of lightbulb that will illuminate what _they_ want illuminated. - --charley n.p. Beastly Boise! n.r. _Madman_, the world's snappiest comic book. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:53:07 -0400 From: Philip David Morgan <philipda@li.net> Subject: From Samson to EMI Hello, Ken: > Now if people want to see how a big record company screws up their web > site, try visiting EMI. There is no (as far as I can tell) umbrella web > site. Instead each division has their own web site. Each different. Most > top level URLs unguessable. And God forbid you don't know which division > your favorite EMI artist is signed with. Some divisions seem to only be > listed "featured artists". > > This is obviously a company without a plan. Fractured into fiefdoms. Or as we sometimes say about the computer systems at work, "nothing hangs together." Must be all that label acquiring (Virigin, Sparrow), re-tooling (turning Angel into an out-and-out "crossover" imprint), and closing down (anyone remember The Enclave or SBK or Guardian...or Harvest?)So much for what used to call itself "the greatest recording orgainsation in the world." Nipper, come home to your Yankee papa...* Philip David 27 July, 1998 P.S.: For the Yanks: Nipper is a registered TM of EMI except in the Americas (RCA-BMG) and Japan (JVC-Victor). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:36:42 -0500 From: Chip Lueck <chip@acronet.net> Subject: Antidote to MUZAK Howdy Y'all! I'm currently working for a client in Dallas, TX and I fly down there every week (Mon-Thurs). The office building I work in pipes in MUZAK. BLECH! I was both amused and appalled when I heard "Happy Phantom" by Tori MUZAKized. To combat the mind-numbing effects of MUZAK (and to drown out the noise of the airplane engine during the flight), I choose a stack of CD's to to bring with my portable CD player. My CD case is really only designed to hold twelve discs, but I manage to squeeze in about 17 by sticking some CD's in where the liner notes were meant to go (I keep them at home). I can't live on just 12 CD's a week, and the real estate in my travel bag is at a premium. I was noticing that this week's selection was more ectophilic than normal, so I thought I'd post the list. I almost always have one selection from Kate and from Happy, but the rest varies wildly. Some weeks it's almost all classical, some weeks almost all pop, etc. Heck, sometimes you will find me listening to my "Macarena Party Mix" CD. So shoot me. :-) The list (non ecto at end): Bel Canto - "White Out Conditions" Kate Bush - "The Dreaming" Victoria Williams - "Swing The Statue" Various - "I Wanna Be Kate" This Mortal Coil - "Blood" Jane Siberry - "The Walking" Boiled in Lead - "Orb" Imogen Heap "Megaphone" Sara McLachlan - "Touch" Happy Rhodes - "Building the Colossus" Tori Amos - "From the Choirgirl Hotel" Bjork - "Homogenic" Beethoven - "Symphony #9" Joplin - "Greatest Hits" Mozart - "Requiem" Billy Joel - "Greatest Hits 3" U2 - "The Joshua Tree" On another note, I'm looking forward to seeing all the Chicago 'philes at the Katemas this weekend. I don't think I've seen most of you since I hosted the Katemas in '95! Time flies when you're having fun! =========================================================== Jeff "Chip" Lueck http://www.acronet.net/~chip/ chip@acronet.net According to the latest official figures, 43% of all statistics are totally worthless. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:44:43 -0500 (CDT) From: kerry white <zzkwhite@washburn.edu> Subject: [none] Hi, I don't know what's in this webtv box, but I got in, I think. I get the whole page of HR holding the spinning orb, 'tho it loads as several different blocks. Then I click the orb. Is Happy's page supposed to be broken into irregular black and white blocks that break HR's photo? The word,"biography" is broken into "bio" and "graphy", both clickable. It has been >years< since my second degree in Art, but that page looks unfinished to me. Kerry R White ............................... ............................. zzkwhite@washburn.edu KTWU PBS TV kerrywhite@webtv.net Topeka KS ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:31:14 -0500 From: Chris Snyder <gegertha@tiac.net> Subject: Longfellow St. Concerts August 2nd show in Boston Hello Everyone, I am pleased to invite you to the 2nd concert in the inagural season of the Longfellow St. Concert Series. Our first concert was a smashing success with wonderful performances by Jess Klein, Joel Cage, and Rose Polenzani. These concerts take place at our house at 39 Longfellow St. in Boston. We'll be in the yard, so bring lawn chairs or blankets to sit on. If you are interested in spending a relaxing Sunday summer afternoon in a freindly supportive envioroment come out to a show. This Sunday, August 2nd, at 4pm, we our pleased to welcome Don White for an intimate show. Don has been a major participent Boston area folk scene for more than 7 years. In addition to performing frequently in the the greater Boston area, he runs a bi-weekly Performers Workshop at Club Passim in Cambridige. In addition to being a master at connectiong with his audience, he is regarded as one of the funniest male songwriters in the entire country. In a style in the tradition of Vance Gilbert, and Christine Lavin, Don can make you fill with laughter or touch you with the most intimate moments of his life. With songs from the moments of real life, Don White has the ability to write songs that everyone can relate to. From dealing with the struggles of a working man's life to dealing with the grief surrounding his son's mugging, Don is able to bring the listener into his world. If you have not seen Don you are missing one of the truly great humanist songwriters of out time. So come out this Sunday to a wonderful summer concert in an intimate setting. Here are the details: Longfellow St. Concerts presents Don White at 39 Longfellow St. Boston, MA The show starts at 4pm sharp - make sure to arrive before the show so you can meet the performer and meet some new people. Admission is a suggested $10 donation, at the door. for more info, or for directions: call - 617-288-4381 e-mail - gegertha@tiac.net or check out http://www.tiac.net/users/gegertha/Concert.html Please RSVP if you are planning on coming, even at the last minute, so we know how many people to plan for. We hope you can make it. Warmest wishes Chris Snyder Contact for Longfellow St. Concerts "The Snyder's put out a nice moderate spread in a quaint, urban grass yard complete with the waftings of real neighborhood ambiance - ice cream trucks jingle along with catcalls of citifolk and avarian lovesongs. Give these guys a shot if you hear of another one - a real Sunday afternoon treat." Joel Cage ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:26:08 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: what would Freud say??? You know I've been watching with great amusement all the directions this dialog has taken since I began it. I do believe that my favorite response has been the analogy of the miata into the tunnel. Is that any kind of a subconcious sexual reference??? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:32:41 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: madman - -charley n.p. Beastly Boise! n.r. _Madman_, the world's snappiest comic book. madman is great.....have you ever seen the movie that mike allred made himself??? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:15:40 -0500 From: Richard <rkonrad@javanet.com> Subject: Re: The 'problem' with Samson's home page Larry sayeth: > > Whoa! > > I am totally tripping. > > I may be alone here, but my right index finger is hurting from hitting > > the "delete" button. I am sure that everyone hs valid points here, but > > it's all "over my ears." Just an idea? Maybe a "side" list on how to > > give Samson a haircut could be set up? > > I'll go to my room now. > > -=-Larry-=- As they say on AOL..... LOL!!!! I tellya Larry, I thought >>I<< was something of a geek..... :) And....... Miata & Tunnel??? p.s.: you listened to Lucinda Williams yet??? :<grin> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:58:29 -0500 (CDT) From: kerry white <zzkwhite@washburn.edu> Subject: help!-> HGP'97 Hi, I have made a "best of" tape from the collected HGP and HBP tapes starting with 1994. As I listened to it I became more aand more interested in a few of the cuts and want to find more of the artist's work. One small problem is that I don't have the playlists for all of the tapes. I am currently trying to find out about the filler on side "c" of the Happy Gift Project 1997. After the cut, "Everyone's gone to the moon", Mitch mentions "see your playlist for filler titles". I need to know the names and titles for the 1st 3 cuts of this filler. Some1 please either reply here or get to me privately, thanks, KrW Help wanted? Inquire within KrW I'm looking for something that I don't have. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:11:14 EDT From: TJtalken@aol.com Subject: LIVING ROOM TOUR SCHEDULE Ladies and Gentlemen, I present current information about Joy Eden Harrison and Lisa Sander's Summer1998 LRT schedule! These two amazing artists have not yet performed in many of these areas & this is your opportunity to hear for yourself what so many already enjoy. Many EDAs will be attending these special intimate LRT gigs, so please start planning your schedules before it's too late. Attendance is limited so read on for dates & cities within your area. August 26th Lawrence, Kansas 28th Greenville, Indiana 29th Toledo, Ohio 30th Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 31st Club Date in Pennsylvania (unconfirmed) Sept 2nd Montreal Canada 6th West Massachusetts 7th West Medford, Massachusetts 8th Club Date in New Jersey (unconfirmed) 10th Richmond, Virginia If you are in these areas and interested in attending these shows please e-mail TJTaLken@aoL.com for location and directions! If you feel left out--More dates will be added after September 10th for the south, midwest and western states. If you're in these areas and interested in hosting(and haven't already), send a post to TJTaLken@aoL.com with the subject as: Hosting. thanks duff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:49:05 -0400 From: Jeff Wasilko <jeffw@smoe.org> Subject: Susan Werner news Susan's new album _Time Between Trains_ will be released September 15th on Bottom Line Records (BMG Distribution). She's going to be touring the New England area during August and September. See http://www.flemtam.com/sw-itin.html for dates! - -Jeff ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jul 1998 14:20:27 +0000 From: Tim.Cook@Swift.Com (Tim Cook) Subject: Help! I'm at the mercy of N.Y./N.J. ectophiles! I'm planning a trip up to NY in a couple of weeks. The plan is to drive up early Sat. morning and park somewhere reasonably close and train it in (I have a phobia for driving in Manhatten!!). Is it going to be possible to park somewhere in NJ at a commuter rail station and get a train in on Sat morning, out on Sunday afternoon. I'm assuming NY isn't like DC's commuter trains which all but shut down over the weekend. Second question: where are the good 2nd-hand cd stores in Manhatten. I feel the need to shop!!! tim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:44:29 -0700 (PDT) From: charley darbo <lissener@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: madman No; seen the ads in the back of Madman, but haven't come across the movie. Allred's totally my hero, though, so I'd see it in a second if I could--despite how bad I hear it its. - --Charley - ---FAMarcus@aol.com wrote: > > -charley > > n.p. Beastly Boise! > n.r. _Madman_, the world's snappiest comic book. > > madman is great.....have you ever seen the movie that mike allred made > himself??? > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:47:02 -0500 (CDT) From: "Michael P. Hayes" <metron@tezcat.com> Subject: Re: New Releases for July 28th New Fear Factory! (Well.....) New Sloan! No money! (No sleep, either...) Aack! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:48:02 -0500 (CDT) From: "Michael P. Hayes" <metron@tezcat.com> Subject: Re: what would Freud say??? On Mon, 27 Jul 1998 FAMarcus@aol.com wrote: > You know I've been watching with great amusement all the directions this > dialog has taken since I began it. I do believe that my favorite response has > been the analogy of the miata into the tunnel. Is that any kind of a > subconcious sexual reference??? Err... Sometimes a Miata is just a Miata? And now to bed... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:08:46 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: 1968!! Just finished taping and watching the pbs special. I was 19 that year so it was very pivotal for me. This documentary reminded me how pivotal some of those things were. Thank you for bringing the special to our attention. FAM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:49:13 EDT From: JavaHo@aol.com Subject: Tori Concert (was Re: Highlights) Vickie muses: << That sounds like 4 Ectophiles going: you, me, JavaHo and Kerry. Right? We all should meet! >> Well...I would love to go, but I don't have a ticket. I'll try to wrangle one up, or if any of you know of extra tickets, I'll certainly want to buy one. Even if I can't go to the concert, I would love to meet with any/all of you. I have a house with a couple of couches, so if anyone needs a place to crash, by all means e-mail me! Java np...the sound of a very empty house. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 23:23:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Donald G. Keller" <dgk@genie.idt.net> Subject: Solex I saw Solex at Mercury Lounge last week; this is the short version. She has guitar and drums with her as well as her own keyboard and background tapes. I'm handicapped by the fact that I haven't heard the album yet (I'm actually more likely to spend $8 to see an unfamiliar act live than risk even on-sale $10 to buy their album)--I'd read an awful lot about her, which is why I went. Verdict: it seems to be a very full sound, plenty of layers (tape, some keyboards, drums, guitar, her somewhat wispy voice, which was hard to hear at times). I only liked about half of it; some was too fast/simple/dancy, though a few numbers did sound just a bit like Portishead, which I liked better. Haven't really decided if I'm going to buy the album or not. Back to Chris Butler. Just to reiterate/emphasize, when I first heard Tin Huey it wasn't "Wow! This is something new!" or even "Wow, what a unique combination of things!" but "Wow! This is a kind of thing I've already heard and really like, and here's more of it!" And no, it did nothing to popularize the style; the Tin Huey album is about as obscure an album as you can name. And the Waitresses (I just heard "I Know What Boys Like" yesterday, by coincidence) were not nearly as musically eccentric as Tin Huey, so that didn't do it either. And I don't know either the Waitresses or Scott Miller well enough to comment on the comparison...but I don't really think of Scott Miller as "math rock." On a much different subject, I sampled the new Lucinda Williams on a listening booth the other day, and can report that it's very good, and I don't like country at all. "Drunken Angel" is a dead-on "Neil Young song," down to the harmonica solo. I may decide to get it; I quite like =Passionate Kisses= (though I loathe the title song) for its three very intense acoustic blues. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:27:39 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Help! Tim Cook wrote: > Second question: where are the good 2nd-hand cd stores in Manhatten. I feel > the need to shop!!! My usual swing through lower Manhattan takes me to Kim's Music (St Marks Place, which is E. 8th St), Downtown Music Gallery (E 5th), and Other Music (E 4th). If you're specifically looking for 2nd-hand, hit Sounds (also on St Marks); DMG might be less useful for you. - -- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:30:13 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: From Samson to EMI Philip David Morgan wrote: > Or as we sometimes say about the computer systems at work, "nothing hangs > together." Must be all that label acquiring (Virigin, Sparrow), re-tooling > (turning Angel into an out-and-out "crossover" imprint), and closing down > (anyone remember The Enclave or SBK or Guardian...or Harvest?)So much for > what used to call itself "the greatest recording orgainsation in the world." A useful rule of thumb: a company's site should not reflect its org chart. The user doesn't care which fiefdom anything falls under, as long as the information is clearly accessible. - -- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:32:34 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: what would Freud say??? FAMarcus@aol.com wrote: > > You know I've been watching with great amusement all the directions this > dialog has taken since I began it. I do believe that my favorite response has > been the analogy of the miata into the tunnel. Is that any kind of a > subconcious sexual reference??? Only if it verges into the realm of the miata dentata or oldsmobile interruptus... - -- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 01:27:37 EDT From: Paul2k@aol.com Subject: Re: madman; heather nova In a message dated 98-07-27 21:48:27 EDT, lissener@yahoo.com writes: > No; seen the ads in the back of Madman, but haven't come across the > movie. > Allred's totally my hero, though, so I'd see it in a second if I > could--despite how bad I hear it its. > > n.r. _Madman_, the world's snappiest comic book. > > > > madman is great.....have you ever seen the movie that mike allred > made > > himself??? I didn't realize that it had been released...Mike Allred is a real indie- renaissance man...former news-broadcaster, comic book creator, movie maker, band player...don't forget about his cameo in "Chasing Amy" I got to meet Allred in September of 1996 at the Words and Pictures Museum where i volunteered in Northampton, MA. It was the annual members bash and he was the guest of honor...we had a yo-yo contest which i won (ha, not that i'm any good) and he drew a sketch of Frank and Jo for me. He's really cool and goofy, and his wife Laura is cool and grounded. And you can't go wrong with a guy who named his two sons Han and Bond :) So, I saw Heather Nova at the Bayou in DC on saturday. Great performance...she didn't seem to be intimidated or anything...beautiful voice..and she sings so effortlessly, and yet with so much emotion. Played a good mix of stuff from Siren and from Oyster...i was pleased...full band (drummer, bassist, lead female guitarist, cellist/keyboardist) and a nice projection/light show. I was quite thrilled to hear her finish off the encore with "Truth and Bone" and then "Sugar"... I skipped Black Tape for a Blue Girl in baltimore tonight...didn't feel like going to such a late show... I've listened to the new Kirsty MacColl album and love it dearly...listening to her crack up and fool around with the songs is so much fun... well, i gotta head off to bed Paul "voodoo hoodoo" Kim ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V4 #249 **************************