From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V4 #247 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, July 27 1998 Volume 04 : Number 247 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Samson site ["Xenu's Sister" ] THE SAMSON SITE...... a different point of view [FAMarcus@aol.com] Re: THE SAMSON SITE...... a different point of view ["Joanna M. Phillips"] Re: Chris Butler [queen of carrot flowers ] Holly Cole [Riphug@aol.com] Re: Chris Butler [FAMarcus@aol.com] THE SAMSON SITE...... a different point of view [Steve VanDevender ] Re: Chris Butler [julesette ] Re: Rebecca Campbell ["Jeffrey Hanson" ] The Changelings dates and news [Neile Graham ] Re: Rebecca Campbell/Rebecca Jenkins [Neile Graham ] Jennifer and Lucinda [Richard ] A Jill :D Choice: Brigid Boden [Riphug@aol.com] Re: Jennifer and Lucinda [Riphug@aol.com] Re: A Jill :D Choice: Brigid Boden ["Jeffrey C. Burka" ] 1968!! [kerry white ] Solex/Elisabeth Esselink? [rjk1@cs.wustl.edu (Bob Kollmeyer)] Re: THE SAMSON SITE...... a different point of view ["Xenu's Sister" Subject: Re: Samson site At 03:03 PM 7/25/98 -0800, Michael Pearce wrote: >Maybe they fixed some of the problems between the day you wrote this and >today, 7/25. Hope so. 'fraid not. I checked it two minutes ago (Sunday morning, 1:30am CST) and I first see a big empty box and nothing else. Then I get a "Do I want to go get Shockwave?" requester (before it was telling me I didn't have Active X) and when I click "No" the screen clears (no more empty box) and there's a nice white blank screen in front of my face. No Shockwave? No entry. Goodbye. Go Away. Ok. Sharon's Terra Incognita: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/3450/terra.html Vickie DIVX = GREED - Boycott Circuit City! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 04:39:20 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: THE SAMSON SITE...... a different point of view I'm going to give some people here an object to address their anger at other than the Samson site. I had and, still have over 6,000 pieces of plastic called records in my collection. Practically overnight, a few years back, I awoke to find that CD's had replaced them. I vowed to fight them to the bitter end. I whined for 3 years while not buying the new technology and I'm still trying to catch up from my inability to accept that change. In the world of computers this change occurs on a weekly basis as you all are aware. Let me switch tracks for a second. About 1 1/2 years ago I remember my daughter and I speaking to Happy after her last show at the Tin Angel in Philly. I remember the sound of her voice and the expression on her face when she told us that she did not get the contract she had hoped for. On the way home I recall telling my daughter we may not be seeing or hearing anything new from Happy again. Her music has meant a lot to me and I can't express how upset that made me. And I remained upset until I heard that she had signed on with Samson. In the last two weeks I've been reading a lot about how Samson is doing this wrong and they are doing that wrong. I'm sorry, but I am so damn grateful to these people for seeing Happy's talents where obviously others had not, that I wouldn't think about whining endlessly. Do what you have to do!! Download the software!!! Upgrade your PC!!!!! If you have constructive criticism, direct it to Samson and most of all be patient. This is not an older established company. It's newborn. And they signed Happy. I too have things I would like to see changed on their website. Overall I'm happy with it. I'll get back to you in a couple of months and we can discuss the state of their website then. And again, I want to thank them and express my gratitude for signing a very special and talented lady. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 08:11:14 -0400 From: "Joanna M. Phillips" Subject: Re: THE SAMSON SITE...... a different point of view > From: FAMarcus@aol.com > To: ecto@smoe.org > Subject: THE SAMSON SITE...... a different point of view > Date: Sunday, July 26, 1998 4:39 AM > > I'm going to give some people here an object to address their anger at other > than the Samson site. (snip) > In the last two weeks I've been reading a lot about how Samson is doing this > wrong and they are doing that wrong. I'm sorry, but I am so damn grateful to > these people for seeing Happy's talents where obviously others had not, that I > wouldn't think about whining endlessly. (snip) Thank you for posting this! I just went and wrote to Samson, thanking them for signing Happy and thanking them for the page they have put up for her! We need to remember that supporting Samson means supporting *Happy*! fleur ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 08:41:12 -0400 (EDT) From: queen of carrot flowers Subject: Re: Chris Butler >>So all praise to Chris Butler and give him his due (Tin Huey, the Waitresses, =The Devil Glitch=); but let's not exaggerate his originality.<< Hmm...I guess, coming from a perspective of twenty years later and being a fan of many of the bands you'd mentioned, I always thought of Tin Huey as sort of yoking some of those musical ideas together. Talking Heads and Devo were a bit more figurative and melodic, and the Zappa/Beefheart/Henry Cow end of the spectrum had the unusual arrangements. So maybe he's not the originator of the sub-genre, but can we at least say that he helped make it accessible to a mainstream audience (taking some of the more out-there moments from _Wasn't Tomorrow Wonderful?_, the must-have first Waitresses elpee, into consideration) and popularized it, to an extent? Oh, okay. Would the rank of "east-coast equivalent to Scott Miller" suffice? :) - --C. - ---- Chelsea, the mod pixie home: away: tugboat@channel1.com odyshape@hotmail.com "the only thing I want to do is make a great, big, fat story in my own language and really have people throwing up and driving cars fast." -- Hal Hartley, on _Henry Fool_ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:33:49 EDT From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: Holly Cole I posted this to the FTE list in response to someone who had seen Holly at Lilith Fair, and thought maybe some of you might be interested: Mo' Info about Holly Cole Yeah, I suppose you could say I like her.......just a little bit. Hee-hee! Jill :D >> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:14:38 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: Chris Butler regarding the waitresses......does anyone here know how the lead singer died??? I think she died last year or the year before but I never read the cause. thanks...fred m. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:25:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve VanDevender Subject: THE SAMSON SITE...... a different point of view I don't think anyone's criticizing Samson Records with any intent to hinder Happy's career. In fact, all the criticism I've seen has been with the intent of getting Samson to do a better job of promoting Happy. Quite simply, a lot of stuff on Happy's Samson website is preventing it from doing a good job of promoting Happy. It probably looks great on the designer's machine, but the number one mistake of most inexeperienced web designers I've seen is to confuse good design with good content and to make designs that are only accessible to those few people who have all the features it requires. Unfortunately for many people the current site is as inaccessible as if it were written in Urdu. The web site won't do a good job of promoting Happy if it uses fancy features that lots of people don't have (or, in some cases, can't have), if it's painfully slow to load, or if there's no content behind the glitzy layout. Vickie's no technophobe, but she can't read the web site. I'm system administrator and programmer and _I_ can't get at the main web site because it uses software that isn't available and probably never will be available for the systems I use. So I think people are putting exactly the right amount of pressure, in the right ways, on Samson to get the web site updated to address its problems so that people will be able to see it and get excited about Happy. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:50:51 -0700 From: Dave Williamson Subject: Re: Rebecca Campbell Neile Graham wrote: > I don't know about solo stuff, but I do have two fun albums she did with an > Ottawa group called Fat Man Waving. There's an entry in the Ectophiles' > Guide for them--fun, jazzy pop music. > > I hadn't even heard of Grace Under Pressure! > > --Neile As well as the Fat Man Waving releases, Rebecca did release a couple of CDs with Three Sheets to the Wind - an Ottawa a cappella group (Rebecca and two other local singers). They get together pretty infrequently of late (only a local Christmas show for the last couple of years). She has been trialing her new material on and off or the last six months or so. I caught a set she did here in Ottawa some time ago. Not clear if she's got a release date planned for her own material - Jane Siberry's Sheeba label would seem a logical choice if she does. Here is a blurb that was written up for a recent Toronto show she did which gives more info: Rebecca Campbell is best known as the singer for the rootsy, funky Ottawa collective Fat Man Waving (1987-1996) and as the leader of the a cappella trio Three Sheets to the Wind. For the last couple of years Campbell has worked extensively with Jane Siberry in the duel roles of back up singer and tour manager. The job has taken her across Canada, the United States and the British Isles. She is the featured voice on Jane's last three releases and in 1993 she sang on Jane's acclaimed recording "When I Was a Boy". In addition to her work with Jane Siberry, Campbell has worked with Lynn Miles, Ian Tamblyn, Stephen Fearing, Lenny Gallant, and many others. Now, Rebecca is singing her own songs under her own name. The rebirth is fuelled and inspired by a new and exciting writing and performing partnership with guitarist / pianist / composer, Justin Haynes. For his new project, Rebecca and Justin are accompanied on stage by three top-notch Toronto musicians: Jean Martin (Chelsea Bridge, DD Jackson) on drums and percussion, Andrew Dowling (The Flying Bulger Klezmer Band, Moe Koffman) on double bass and Oliver Schroer (the Stewed Tomatoes) on fiddle. Dave. np: Cowboy Junkies, Miles from our Home ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:58:19 -0400 From: julesette Subject: Re: Chris Butler FAMarcus@aol.com wrote: > > regarding the waitresses......does anyone here know how the lead singer > died??? I think she died last year or the year before but I never read the > cause. > > thanks...fred m. Patty Donahue died of lung cancer 12/96 (at 40) julesette (who has heard the entire Devil Glitch thanks to WFMU) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 98 11:57:29 PDT From: "Jeffrey Hanson" Subject: Re: Rebecca Campbell Didn't Rebecca Campbell also star and sing in a film version of Bye, Bye Birdie or was that someone else? - ---------- > Neile Graham wrote: > > I don't know about solo stuff, but I do have two fun albums she did with an > > Ottawa group called Fat Man Waving. There's an entry in the Ectophiles' > > Guide for them--fun, jazzy pop music. > > > > I hadn't even heard of Grace Under Pressure! > > > > --Neile > > As well as the Fat Man Waving releases, Rebecca did release a couple of > CDs with Three Sheets to the Wind - an Ottawa a cappella group (Rebecca > and two other local singers). They get together pretty infrequently of > late (only a local Christmas show for the last couple of years). > > She has been trialing her new material on and off or the last six months > or so. I caught a set she did here in Ottawa some time ago. Not clear > if she's got a release date planned for her own material - Jane > Siberry's Sheeba label would seem a logical choice if she does. > > Here is a blurb that was written up for a recent Toronto show she did > which gives more info: > > Rebecca Campbell is best known as the singer for the rootsy, funky > Ottawa > collective Fat Man Waving (1987-1996) and as the leader of the a > cappella trio > Three Sheets to the Wind. > > For the last couple of years Campbell has worked extensively with Jane > Siberry > in the duel roles of back up singer and tour manager. The job has taken > her > across Canada, the United States and the British Isles. She is the > featured > voice on Jane's last three releases and in 1993 she sang on Jane's > acclaimed > recording "When I Was a Boy". In addition to her work with Jane > Siberry, > Campbell has worked with Lynn Miles, Ian Tamblyn, Stephen Fearing, Lenny > Gallant, and many others. > > Now, Rebecca is singing her own songs under her own name. The rebirth > is > fuelled and inspired by a new and exciting writing and performing > partnership > with guitarist / pianist / composer, Justin Haynes. > > For his new project, Rebecca and Justin are accompanied on stage by > three > top-notch Toronto musicians: Jean Martin (Chelsea Bridge, DD Jackson) on > drums > and percussion, Andrew Dowling (The Flying Bulger Klezmer Band, Moe > Koffman) > on double bass and Oliver Schroer (the Stewed Tomatoes) on fiddle. > > Dave. > > np: Cowboy Junkies, Miles from our Home > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:49:27 -0700 From: Neile Graham Subject: The Changelings dates and news For those interested. - --N >X-Sender: nomad3@pop.mindspring.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 08:44:00 -0400 >To: nomad3@pop.mindspring.com >From: nomad@catgoddess.com (Damon) >Subject: The Changelings on Saturday > >emerging from the recording studio to play.. > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > T h e C h a n g e l i n g s > > Saturday, August 1st > > at the Red Light Cafe in Atlanta > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > > >I believe there is an opening acoustic act, so we'll probably get started >at about 11:15. > >The new amphibious CD will be available soon.. > >www.redlightcafe.com >__________________________ >www.draven.net/changelings >__________________________ > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ..... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ..... neile@sff.net The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music .... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:44:17 -0700 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: Rebecca Campbell/Rebecca Jenkins Jeffrey Hanson wrote: >Didn't Rebecca Campbell also star and sing in a film version of Bye, Bye >Birdie >or was that someone else? The ex-Siberry backup singer who starred in a movie (as a singer) was a different Rebecca, Rebecca Jenkins. She toured with Jane but I don't think recorded with her--she also appeared in the Siberry special from about 1988, and in in the "An Angel Stepped Down" video as the angel shaking Jane and in the chorus of the "Sail Across The Water" video. The movie was _Bye Bye Blues_ and was quite good--about a singer during wartime in small-town Alberta. She also did an album of her own which was very very mainstream pop. She was a better actress than a songwriter, though I remember really liking her singing in the movie I couldn't stand the song that played on Much Music from her album. - --Neile - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ..... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ..... neile@sff.net The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music .... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:29:56 -0500 From: Richard Subject: Jennifer and Lucinda I was psyched to see Jennifer Kimball tonight at Raoul's Roadside Attraction here in Portland, particularly after Jill's recounting of her show at the Tin Angel- Even had my not-particularly-ectophilic spouse signed on, but was wondering about why the marquee outside the place made no mention of her. A phone call confirmed what I feared: Jennifer's show was canceled. No reason given, a plea of ignorance from the voice on the phone when when I pressed for an explanation... nothing. I suppose I spared myself a night of reflux from Raoul's notoriously questionable Tex-Mex fare, but after being a bit disappointed by Jonatha Brooke's edgy, attitude-laden appearance here last March, I kinda looked for redemption from the other side of The Story... *sigh*. I hope she's OK. I also have to say that I'm a bit surprised at the total lack of attention here to what may be one of The Albums Of The Year by a female artist, Lucinda Williams' _Car Wheels On A Gravel Road_. Yes, she's not technically Ecto, but she DID share a stage with the other Williams girls last year, Dar and Victoria, at a Rolling Stone event at The Troubador, and she contributed a track to _Sweet Relief_ , the Victoria Williams benefit CD. And she's real. I read the glowing review in Newsweek and decided to take a chance with my $11.95.... Boy, was I surprised: This is definitely not your typical smarmy Nashville bullshit and hype- It's a gritty and rough-edged tour of the Deep South by a poetess who has been ignored for all of her lengthy career by the public and the critics (remind you of someone we all know and love?)... For an idea of just how long she's been around, her first album was released shortly after KaTe's very first album, back in 1979. Well, she's featured bigtime in the current Rolling Stone, and a visit to the New Releases bins at Borders yesterday had only ONE album completely sold out. Hers. Now, I just hope she doesn't become the next Fiona Apple, showing up every week in the gossip rags. And I honestly don't recall a CD since _Fumbling Towards Ecstasy_ that has monoplized my stereo so totally- this from a guy who generally despises country music. Like I said, she's real. n.p.- take a guess ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:39:57 EDT From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: A Jill :D Choice: Brigid Boden Through internet mailing lists, record store connections, and lots of research, I've had the good fortune to discover a wealth of rather obscure musical artists. Seem like I should share them all with you from time to time. So here's the first one: BRIGID BODEN Comparisons: Hmmm.....kind of like Loreena McKennitt + Ashley MacIsaac + Madonna + a pinch of rap and a pinch of reggae. She has a high, whispery voice with a lot of fiddle in the background, yet even though she's in the Celtic genre, her music has a strong dance beat to it. Tempting, eh? Brigid was born in Dublin, Ireland, but is now based in London. Her self- titled debut album was released on A&M Records in 1997. You can learn more about Brigid and hear sound samples at her A&M website: www.rocketrecords.com........just search on her name. Or at CD Universe (www.cduniverse.com), where you can buy the album. Here's an album review posted at CD Universe's site: <> And another review posted at www.westnet.com/consumable <> There's also a good review at www.musiccentral.msn.com (for some reason, I couldn't copy this one). I think you'll like her! Jill :D ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:50:57 EDT From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: Re: Jennifer and Lucinda In a message dated 7/26/98 7:37:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rkonrad@javanet.com writes: << I also have to say that I'm a bit surprised at the total lack of attention here to what may be one of The Albums Of The Year by a female artist, Lucinda Williams' _Car Wheels On A Gravel Road_. >> You know....I had hesitated to buy Lucinda's album because I had the idea that she was pretty much a country artist. But I finally decided to take a chance and was very pleasantly surprised that "Car Wheels..." is a good mix of country, folk, and rock. I even bought an extra copy to send to a friend who I thought would like it, and the album was a hit with my friend, too! You can hear wav or Real Audio samples of a couple of tracks from "Car Wheels..." at Lucinda's Polygram website: www.polygram-us.com Lots more information is available through Lucinda's site at www.lonestarwebstation.com Here's a sample of biographical information from that site: <> Oh, and Richard? So sorry you missed seeing Jennifer :( Jill :D ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 20:52:02 -0400 From: "Jeffrey C. Burka" Subject: Re: A Jill :D Choice: Brigid Boden jill :D sez: > There's also a good review at www.musiccentral.msn.com (for some reason, I > couldn't copy this one). maybe microsoft didn't approve of your browser? (I recently needed to print a form from the microsloth site for a rebate kinda thing, and was appalled to find that the form could not be printed from netscape4, but was just dandy under ie3 (which I keep on my box for emergencies)) jeff ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 21:02:53 -0500 (CDT) From: kerry white Subject: 1968!! Hi, If you're 30 years old you were born in 1968. A >>LOT<< happened in 1968. Tune to your local PBS station on Monday evening for "1968: The Year that Shaped a Generation". Heavy politics and social changes abounded. When you see what happened and how it related to what came before, you will have a taste of culture shock! How small and petty >were< [we] in those days? See for yourself! CYLL KrW "Who was that masked man?" "That no mask, that birthmark!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 21:03:05 -0500 From: rjk1@cs.wustl.edu (Bob Kollmeyer) Subject: Solex/Elisabeth Esselink? Time to query the collective wisdom - Has anyone seen Solex live, and if so, how well does Elisabeth pull it off live (ie. is it worth a late, late Tuesday night ;) )? I like the snippets of "Solex vs. the Hitmeister" that I've found and I've seen nothing but positive reviews of the disc, but looped/sampled stuff often doesn't translate well into a live environment in my experience. Figured even if the Dutch ecto contingent (Marion? D^2?) couldn't help, perhaps someone out East caught one of the DC/NY dates she just did... bob np. Cardinals vs Rockies ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:15:36 -0500 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Re: THE SAMSON SITE...... a different point of view (cc'd to Peggy Zier) At 04:39 AM 7/26/98 EDT, FAMarcus@aol.com wrote: >I'm going to give some people here an object to address their anger at other >than the Samson site. I'm not angry at you or Samson. I'm *frustrated* with Samson's designer. That's where I'm coming from. Do you think that because you will accept anything that Samson does I should be mad at you? Nah, you can think and do what you want. All *I* care about is Happy's career well-being, and these days, the Internet is a *big* part of that. Not all, not the majority, but it's important. I think Samson has an idea of how important it is, they just don't yet realize how important web *accessibility* is. I'm willing to look like the Nagging Bitch if it will help get the idea across. Happy's music is more important to me than what others think of me. > I had and, still have over 6,000 pieces of plastic >called records in my collection. Practically overnight, a few years back, I >awoke to find that CD's had replaced them. I vowed to fight them to the >bitter end. I whined for 3 years while not buying the new technology and I'm >still trying to catch up from my inability to accept that change. Nice story, but it means nothing in this context. (And btw, I myself have over 1,000 LPs. Plus probably 1,000 CDs. They co-exist in the same room.) > In the world of computers this change occurs on a weekly basis as you all > are aware. >Let me switch tracks for a second. About 1 1/2 years ago I remember my >daughter and I speaking to Happy after her last show at the Tin Angel in >Philly. I remember the sound of her voice and the expression on her face when >she told us that she did not get the contract she had hoped for. On the way >home I recall telling my daughter we may not be seeing or hearing anything new >from Happy again. Her music has meant a lot to me and I can't express how >upset that made me. And I remained upset until I heard that she had signed on >with Samson. First, I know where you're coming from. I've had an intense desire for Happy to be recognized for her talents since 1988. I've seen album after album released that died without a trace except for the Collective Heart's support. (Which has been so important, both to me and to Happy). Second, Happy *lives* for music. Some way, some how, there would *always* be music coming from Bearsville. It's certainly not my place to speak for her, but I don't believe she would give up music except under the most dire, dire circumstances. Third, if, for some bizarre, dire reason, Happy didn't make any more music, those 9 albums already released are not chickenfeed. They're all timeless classics that will sound as good in the future as they do now, and we should be more greatful to Happy for making them and to Kevin Bartlett for releasing them than Samson, as cool as it was for them to sign her. Never ever ever ever EVER forget what Kevin Bartlett and Aural Gratification has done for Happy, and for us. (Not that you would. I just wanted to make that point). Forth, I think you depressed yourself and your daughter for nothing. Nothing new ever again? What, did you think that if she wasn't signed she'd go join a convent and take a vow of silence? >In the last two weeks I've been reading a lot about how Samson is doing this >wrong and they are doing that wrong. What? It's mostly about their web site. You make it sound as if we're bashing the entire operation. They're just starting out and we're all willing to be supportive and wish them well. They've already done a killer job on the album design (but then, you don't have to go somewhere special to get a special program that would enable you to see the cover and read the lyrics.) > I'm sorry, but I am so damn grateful to these people for seeing Happy's > talents where obviously others had not, So am I. So am I. More than you know. >that I wouldn't think about whining endlessly. Them's fighting words, if I were in a fighting mood. How DARE you accuse me of "whining endlessly" when all I want is for Happy's fans and other interested, curious or just randomly surfing parties to be able to access the Samson web site. Why in the world do you *THINK* I am complaining? > Do what you have to do!! Download the software!!! No way! Why should I HAVE to use my precious time to go get a program that *I* *DON'T* *WANT*, wait for it to download, have it take up space on my hard drive, just because it's used incorrectly on the *opening page* and nowhere else on the site? Who died and made the use of Shockwave the only way to access the web? Macs do not rule the web any more than Microsoft does. No one program should be the standard. It's the web site's designer's responsibility to make sure that the site's information is available to everyone accessing the site. Bells and whistles are fine, as long as they don't get in the way of the information. There is *N-O R-E-A-S-O-N* for Shockwave/ Java/Active X or whatever else fancy program to be used on the opening page. > Upgrade your PC!!!!! I *AM* UPGRADED! I've got a Pentium 133 with 32 Megs of RAM, hooked up to a LAN being served by another Pentium with a dual-channel ISDN connection. I use Windows 95b (sorry Michael) with the most recent winsock. I use Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 to access the web. My system is better than those used by the vast majority of "regular" people (as opposed to computer professionals/geeks). The problem is NOT my system, the problem is Samson's web site, and since it could affect thousands of other people trying in vain to get some information about Happy, I'm speaking out. >If you have constructive criticism, direct it to Samson This is an Ecto topic. I can post my thoughts to Ecto too if I want. >and most of all be patient. This is not an older >established company. It's newborn. I can be patient, but when the release date of Happy's album is just 2 weeks away, when it's already getting airplay, when people are already picking it up at used record stores, time is a factor. If all goes as planned, Happy's going to have a ton of new, interested people wanting information about her. Samson *has* to have the web site as ready as possible because the web, like it or not, is the first place a lot of people go for information nowadays. As far as I'm concerned, it's not ready for the masses yet. Let me tell you a story. A couple of weeks ago, a guy chopped down a dead branch of a tree by his house. He gave the wood to a friend of his who often goes camping and was always looking for firewood. This 2nd guy had the wood in his covered pickup truck and a few days later noticed an odd-looking beetle on his rear-view mirror. He put it in a jar, then later he looked up beetles on the web. I don't know what search engine he used but the first site he saw was about this particular beetle, containing a warning. It turned out to be an Asian long-horned beetle, "imported" from China via some packing crates, and it kills every tree it infests. He alerted the authorities and now, just about every tree in a 12 block area called "Ravenswood" (which is crammed with large, beautiful, shady trees) will have to be cut down. The beetle, if left alone, could kill entire forests in the US because it has no natural predators and spraying does no good. This guy who looked up the beetle on the web is considered a hero, and when reporters asked him why he looked it up on the computer, he said "I don't know, I just do things like that." (Isn't that a cool answer?) Anyway, it doesn't much have anything to do with Samson or Happy's situation, but this all happened at the same time the Samson site went up, and I couldn't help thinking that it's a good thing that the site about Asian long-horns wasn't as hard to access as Samson's, or else he might have just given up the hunt, thrown the bug away, and 5 years from now, every tree in Chicago and the 'burbs might have had to be destroyed. Who knows? My point is that it's the *information* that's important, and flash and glitter should come second. >And they signed Happy. I too have things I would like to see changed >on their website. Overall I'm happy with it. I'm glad you like it. I'm glad that you can see it. Many others can't. Are they not important just because you can see it? >I'll get back to you in a couple of months and we can discuss the state of >their website then. In a couple of months, Happy's album will have been released and thousands of people will have tried to access the web site for information about her. Some will be as satisfied as you are. Others will not bother to go download a plug in, or wait around for the graphics, and they'll miss out on whatever there is to learn about Happy and other Samson artists. And it's NOT their fault that they'll miss out. Even if you consider it to be their fault, so what? Are *they* going to care? No. They'll just leave and go somewhere else. It will only quietly affect Happy, Samson and the other Samson artists. One significant aspect is that dissatisfaction about the web site is a silent scourge. Most people, if they can't access the site or have trouble or just don't like or can't wait will just go away quietly without saying anything. Samson and other companies who do this are/will be drunk with the joy of all the folks like you who are telling them how wonderful it all is, and not noticing all those who will just disappear, mumbling to themselves. There's a reason I'm yapping my face about this. I skip over sites every day without taking the time to write the webmaster/designer. I hardly ever go back to those sites. I know how this works. >And again, I want to thank them and express my gratitude >for signing a very special and talented lady. I agree with you there absolutely. Vickie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:26:20 -0500 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Re: THE SAMSON SITE...... a different point of view At 08:11 AM 7/26/98 -0400, Joanna M. Phillips wrote: >We need to remember that supporting Samson means supporting *Happy*! So, um, if we express dissatisfaction with something that Samson is doing, that means we're not supporting Happy anymore? Wouldn't wanting Samson to do things better mean that they can promote Happy better and wouldn't *that* be supporting Happy? Is being satisfied that thousands of people won't be able to get information about Happy on Samson's web site supporting Happy? Is supporting the record company in *everything they do* no matter the cost to the artist and fans/potential fans also supporting Happy? Confused with my own sentences... Vickie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:02:51 +1000 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Re: THE SAMSON SITE...... a different point of view In a message "Re: THE SAMSON SITE...... a different point of view" on 26/Jul/1998 22:15:36 Xenu's Sister says: > There is *N-O R-E-A-S-O-N* for Shockwave/ > Java/Active X or whatever else fancy program to be used on the > opening page. Amen to that. However I'm left scratching my head trying to see why Vickie has so much trouble with that particular page. It displays perfectly fine on my system and while I use Netscape 4 I never installed Shockwave and since I use a Mac, I certainly don't have Active X. Yet the page in question works for me just fine - it just displays a graphic that acts as a link... no problem! So Vickie, even if what they did doesn't work on your particular set-up, it seems to me that they *are* trying to do the right thing from the design point of view... Tell them it doesn't work for you, by all means, but is all this anger really necessary? Personally I thought the Samson site looks quite good, and I especially appreciated them providing sound samples in both Real Audio and mp3... __________________________________________________ Some people, you just wanna headbutt them in the hope of direct data download.... (from alt.gothic) http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html __________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:19:08 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: THE SAMSON SITE...... a different point of view Andrew Fries wrote: > > In a message "Re: THE SAMSON SITE...... a different point of view" on > 26/Jul/1998 22:15:36 Xenu's Sister says: > > > There is *N-O R-E-A-S-O-N* for Shockwave/ > > Java/Active X or whatever else fancy program to be used on the > > opening page. > > Amen to that. However I'm left scratching my head trying to see why Vickie has > so much trouble with that particular page. It displays perfectly fine on my > system and while I use Netscape 4 I never installed Shockwave and since I use a > Mac, I certainly don't have Active X. Yet the page in question works for me > just fine - it just displays a graphic that acts as a link... no problem! So > Vickie, even if what they did doesn't work on your particular set-up, it seems > to me that they *are* trying to do the right thing from the design point of > view... Tell them it doesn't work for you, by all means, but is all this anger > really necessary? I just tried to load it with IE4. It first demanded that I download and install Shockwave Flash. Since I didn't want to wait for a download, and just wanted to view the $%^*(*& site, I declined. It then presented an utterly blank page with no way past it (saying, in other words, if you don't want to stop your surfing to get a plugin, we don't want you here). I then refreshed and took the time to get the plugin. When it loaded, I was presented with a jerky animation and three or four incredibly loud farting noises (possibly due to its not being able to deal with my listening to a CD through my sound card at the same time). Clicking on that led me to the graphically obese menu page. (And while there are ALT tags on the graphics, IE4 does not display them in the graphics boxes while waiting for the graphics to load, but only uses them in mouseovers.) I guess the question is whether we are satisfied with the message it sends: "Dear surfer: Happy Rhodes, and the other Samson artists, feel that unless you care to load in unnecessary software and to wait around for graphics, you are beneath their attention and they don't want you to hear their music or to know about them." We know that Happy doesn't feel this way. Does she know that her record company is effectively saying this about her? Are they "trying to do the right thing from the design point of view"? It depends if you call offending the readers and ignoring all aspects of effective page design to be "the right thing". - -- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V4 #247 **************************