From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V4 #198 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, June 23 1998 Volume 04 : Number 198 Today's Subjects: ----------------- CD.now??? what... [kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white)] Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] Re: CD.now??? what... [Bill ] Re: karaoke night at the stratford ramada [Riphug@aol.com] The young and talented (?) Maren Ord [Riphug@aol.com] Ecto's lowest point (was re: Sarah Polley) [charley darbo ] Re: Opinions Needed [kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white)] Imogen Heap, Ecto-synchronicity [Greg Jumper ] Re: my tiny impressions of Lenni, K Wilhoite [Sherlyn Koo ] Thank you, Juha! [charley darbo ] Re: June 21 ["Michael P. Hayes" ] Holly Cole in print [Neal Copperman ] Martha and the Muffins news [Neile Graham ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:32:41 -0500 From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: CD.now??? what... Hi, Either my server won't let me go there or I mis-remember the name of the on-line cd store many folks have mentioned [here]. I >thought< it was cd.now. Help!!!!! Search/explore found their compitition only (cd store, cd universe, blockbusters). I finally found (read: bothered to look) that Roger Glover's Elements is on cd (w/ The Mask to make it long enough--not familiar w/ it)!!! bye, KrW TV or not TV? That is the question. To suffer the lies of outrageous pitchmen, or to slit your throat with an electro-coated stainless steel blade? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 03:00:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ********************** Nik Popa (DJNikPopa@aol.com) *********************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Nik Popa Sun June 22 1969 Cancer Teresa VanDyne Thu June 23 1960 Cancer Dave Torok Mon June 24 1968 Cancer Ethan Straffin Thu June 24 1971 Cancer Kevin Dekan Mon June 27 1960 Cancer BunkyTom Tue July 02 1968 Cancer Anders Hallberg Tue July 03 1962 Cancer Kevin Harkins Thu July 05 1973 Cancer Laurel Krahn Mon July 05 1971 Cancer John J Henshon Mon July 05 1954 The Year Of The Horse / Ruled By The Moon Jim Gurley Mon July 06 1959 Cancer Lisa Wilson Fri July 08 1960 Moonchild with Java Rising Courtney Dallas Fri July 09 1971 Catte Michael Peskura Sat July 09 1949 HallOfFamer Finney T. Tsai Sat July 09 1966 Cancer Larry Greenfield Tue July 11 1950 Virgo Rising; Gemini Moon Marion Kippers Tue July 13 1965 Kreeft Ellen Rawson Thu July 13 1961 Double Cancer Mitch Pravatiner Mon July 14 1952 Cancer Rich R. Wed July 14 1954 Cancer John Zimmer Sun July 16 1961 Cancer Dan Stark Sun July 16 1961 Cancer Cathy Guetzlaff Mon July 18 1955 Cancer Vlad Sat July 18 1970 Warning: severe tire damage Jani Pinola Thu July 20 1972 Jonquil - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:35:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Subject: Re: CD.now??? what... www.cdnow.com On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, kerry white wrote: > Hi, Either my server won't let me go there or I mis-remember the name > of the on-line cd store many folks have mentioned [here]. I >thought< > it was cd.now. Help!!!!! Search/explore found their compitition only > (cd store, cd universe, blockbusters). > I finally found (read: bothered to look) that Roger Glover's Elements > is on cd (w/ The Mask to make it long enough--not familiar w/ it)!!! > bye, > > KrW > TV or not TV? That is the question. To suffer the lies of outrageous > pitchmen, or to slit your throat with an electro-coated stainless steel > blade? > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:26:33 EDT From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: Re: karaoke night at the stratford ramada What a great story, meredith! That must have been sooooooo hysterically funny and fun! Too bad the place didn't have any of Susan's own songs for her to karaoke to. Jill :D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:33:36 EDT From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: The young and talented (?) Maren Ord This was posted on the Paula Cole mailing list by Steven Stewart from Finland. Has anyone here heard Maren yet? <> I went to her website and listened to the Real Audio samples there......you can definitely tell that she's young (inklings of Leanne Rimes). Unfortunately, I wasn't all that excited by her music......looks like maybe her dad writes her songs (Jared J. Ord)......but sounds like she has great potential as her voice matures...... Jill :D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:41:45 -0700 (PDT) From: charley darbo Subject: Ecto's lowest point (was re: Sarah Polley) There follows an impassioned response to John Higdon’s ill-thought-out, presumptuous, nonsympathetic response to Vickie’s post about _The_Sweet_Hereafter_. I’ll try to keep it civil, but I’m nearly shaking with horror on Vickie’s behalf. The faint of heart might want to leave the room for a minute or two. Recall if you will, John, this part of Vickie’s post: “My reasons for hating it are very personal and so wouldn't apply to anyone else seeing the film.” Knowing the subject of the film, and reading between the lines of Vickie’s above statement in reference to that subject, how dare you criticize her for being unable to dissect the film as an intellectual abstraction? That has to have been the most heartless moment in the history of Ecto. In the first place. In the second place, your interpretation of the film—which in my view, is greatly mistaken (more on which below)—is exactly the interpretation that Vickie had, and exactly the reason it so upset her. The film’s apparent romanticization of father-daughter incest is exactly why Vickie was so horrified by the film. You say: “I just wanted to interject here that the film does not actually portray the relationship between Nicole and her father as one of sexual _abuse_. Certainly, a sexual relationship is implied (through a single kiss), so that the film does portray incest. However, there is no indication that this relationship is nonconsensual (which I regard as sort of a requirement for a relationship to be called abusive).[1] Basically, the film takes a nonjudgemental view of the relationships between its characters, which is in line with one of the themes of the movie.” Can you not imagine that someone who was trusting enough of this forum to disclose her “deeply personal" reasons for reacting so strongly to the subject of this film would be horrified by such a portrayal as you outline? I, personally, am nearly as horrified by your emotionally blind and deaf interpretation of the film as I am by your emotional blindness and deafness to the content of Vickie’s post. The following qualifying statement does not redeem you, especially since you give it up so reluctantly and so _very_ qualifiedly: “I realize that any such relationship as this, no matter the circumstances, _could_ be (and often is) regarded still as nonconsensual. . . . Though, it must be said, that the relationship between father and daughter is one of trust, and so the father could still have abused such trust to initiate the relationship.” I can only say “duh!” How can you miss that this is more the point of the film than the 'themes’ you so cavalierly take from it? If the director appears to view the subject nonjudgmentally, that in no way suggests that he’s saying _you_ should abdicate all responsibility in viewing it. He’s letting you make your own choices, and you’ve made your choices. “What I am saying, though, is that nothing of this sort is implied in the movie (the one scene is portrayed as very tender, though the music gets a little heavier).” How explicitly must an artist lead you by the nose through the meaning of his or her art for you to understand it? What you call “reading things into a film” is actually participating, as a human being, in an emotional experience shared by an artist with the viewers/auditors/recipients of that art. The overwhelming need of today’s moviegoing public for films as soma—movies that strive to prevent thinking rather than encourage it—has made movies that do not require such participation the commercial norm, leaving much of the audience without the wherewithal to meaningfully engage a meaningful film. If a movie is not titanic or jurassic enough for them, they’re left sitting in the dark. Do you require subtitles for all the emotional content of a movie? They might have helped you understand Vickie’s post. Is it just possible that the swelling of the music, the tender lighting, etc., of the scene in question was the director’s way of showing you the romantic fantasy world the daughter was led to believe she was living in by the manipulations of her father, her father whom she trusted, and from whom she learned, as she grew up, her map of the world? The map which she learns in the course of the movie was a lie? And that the world her father built for her was only, she finally realized, for his own gratification? And the love she thought she was getting from him, the acts which he convinced her were the acts of love, had nothing at all to do with love? “IMO, only what the director has placed onto the screen can be used to analyze the relationships therein.” This is an avowed refusal to participate in the emotional—even the intellectual—_effect_ of a film or of any work of art. If subtextual emotional content in art is not translated into explicit intellectuallisms, into concreteisms you can “refute thus,” you insist they don’t exist. What a thin, uninteresting veneer of existence you must drift along in: unaffected and unengaged. “I guess it's just a pet peeve of mine when someone reads into a movie what is not there.” How does blindness make you an authority on sight? Your inability to see it does not mean it isn’t there. Hubris! “No offense implied to Vickie.” Unacceptable. Does not mitigate, nor yet justify, your insensitivity. “John Higdon (The Watcher)” Spare me. —Charley _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:38:16 -0500 From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: Roger Glover help needed Hi, cdnow doesn't have Elements/Mask. Yahoo! Altavista search came up w/ it from Impulse music for $15.99, but apparently they're out of business. Connoisseur has it for 12-13 pounds, mail order or long distance phone order. Any1 have any ideas on something easier?? Thanks, KrW TV or not TV? That is the question. To suffer the lies of outrageous pitchmen, or to slit your throat with an electro-coated stainless steel blade? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:09:59 EDT From: Paul2k@aol.com Subject: my tiny impressions of Lenni, K Wilhoite I finally got around to listening to Lenni Jabour's self titled cd while i was mowing the lawn last week....it's only 7 or 8 songs...so i don't know if that classifies as an EP or what...anyways, it's nice. Um....piano and voice with backing instrumentation....she calls to mind Rebecca Timmons in a Kami Lyle kinda vein...sweet girlish singer-songwriting...i'll have to listen to it more to get a better feel...i like it ok, but it doesn't wow me... Kathleen Wilhoite's cd is pretty good too...WXPN has been playing cuts from it pretty liberally since it came out a couple months ago...she has a raspy voice and writes music with a roots rock feel to it...i guess you could sort of push her into a sheryl crow pigeonhole if you wanted to. about Dalbello...thanks for setting me straight about her, Neile and the rest...it helps to have your impressions when i listen to _whore_ again...i actually skipped the first two tracks just to see how it hit me, and i enjoyed the cd. A lot. When i first listened to it, i heard the first two songs and then stopped the cd. Guess i gotta learn, huh? ;) Now, if someone could explain to me what everyone means when they say that PJ Harvey's album _To Bring You My Love_ is a blues album, i'll be just fine... Meth, Woj, JeffW...god i envy you. I think i'll team up with sherlyn and say that i hate you. By the way, what did you all drink at the karaoke bar ? :) Anyone else pick up Moxy Fruvous' live album yet? They do a cover of "Psychokiller" and there is a LOT of in between song banter on it...over 20 tracks, i think...or close to it...and a full band-slowed down version of King of Spain... Paul "know what i mean?" Kim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:35:21 -0500 From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: Opinions Needed Hi, Thanks to Juha I have found an on-line service that carries Glover's Elements/Mask. Their on-line order form is not secured. What is the opinion of the group as to giving credit card info to non-secured service? They are a relatively small com: would that make them a smaller or larger target for cc hackers? Should I just print out the form and pay to fax it? Thanks, bye, KrW TV or not TV? That is the question. To suffer the lies of outrageous pitchmen, or to slit your throat with an electro-coated stainless steel blade? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:16:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Ofer Inbar Subject: fruvous live album Paul2k@aol.com writes: > Anyone else pick up Moxy Fruvous' live album yet? They do a cover of Bought it and given it away twice already, so I'm currently without :) I'll have it again soon... > "Psychokiller" and there is a LOT of in between song banter on it...over 20 > tracks, i think...or close to it...and a full band-slowed down version of King > of Spain... I was hoping for the Billy Jean cover (sometimes referred to as "Billy Jian") with the lead banjo, but Psycho Killer is one of their best recent covers. The slowed down KoS is referred to on the album as the "cranky monarch version", but fans have been calling it "The Grunge of Spain" for years now. It's hilarious (IMHO)! How many bands do you know that do a spoof-cover of one of their own songs? And then put it on an album! 23 tracks total: 11 moxy fruvous original songs 3 covers 7 banter tracks 2 "spontaneous songs" This is the first moxy fruvous album that really does a good job portraying what the band is like. Highly recommended. Reminder to Bostonians: The Mollys @ Club Passim tonight, 8pm! -- Cos (Ofer Inbar) -- cos@leftbank.com cos@cs.brandeis.edu -- The Left Bank Operation -- lbo@leftbank.com http://www.leftbank.com/ "We're a bunch of geeks, and so is our audience. We like that. If you're not a geek, don't come to the show." -- Mike Ford of moxy fruvous ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:41:55 -0500 From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: Re: Opinions Needed Hi, Thanks, for info. They have no phone # except FAX. Drat!!! They have it the cheapest and only $1.49 postage for 1 cd. >If< they have it in stock, 1 week, if not, up to 6 weeks. grrrr... bye, KrW TV or not TV? That is the question. To suffer the lies of outrageous pitchmen, or to slit your throat with an electro-coated stainless steel blade? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:05:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Jumper Subject: Imogen Heap, Ecto-synchronicity Since I fairly raved about Imogen after hearing the one song "Come Here Boy" on the radio a few weeks ago, I figured I should follow up now that the album is "officially" out (I know some of you have had it for a while already). I'm only on my second listen, so my opinion is still forming; my initial impression is that the album isn't quite what I had hoped, but I think I'm going to like it quite a bit nevertheless. I think half or more of the album leans a bit too heavily on "techno" or "industrial" sounds. (Are those the right terms? I don't know, but I have limited patience for perpetually "throbbing" bass and assorted noises...) The remainder of the album is more what I had expected/wanted; even with the "noisier" elements of the album, I already like the whole a fair amount. "Come Here Boy" is the stand-out track for me. For comparison, I like this album much more than Emma Townshend's recent debut; I picked on Emma because my expectations, based on sources like Ecto, etc., of Emma and Imogen were similar prior to hearing their respective albums (and I do still hear certain similarities). In the synchronicity department, a few weeks ago I wrote: I've just started looking at the Tangerine Dream bins in the music stores again recently. It looks like some of their earlier work is reappearing, sometimes in remastered versions. I'd love to get _Ricochet_ and _Stratosfear_ on CD; maybe they'll turn up soon... In fact, later that same week I *did* find both _Ricochet_ and _Stratosfear_ locally, for anyone else who's looking... Some time ago, I commented on Sarah Polley's vocal work in "The Sweet Hereafter", particularly her cover of The Tragically Hip's "Courage". I've been on the lookout for the original version on The Tragically Hip's _Fully Completely_ ever since. It turned up at Tower this weekend, and what should I find this morning, but another discussion on Ecto of Sarah Polley, "The Sweet Hereafter", and The Tragically Hip. For what it's worth, I like Sarah Polley's version of "Courage" quite a bit better so far (with apologies to fans of The Tragically Hip...). Does anyone else think the lead singer of the Hip sounds like a twangier, higher-pitched version of the lead singer of Midnight Oil? Greg np: Imogen Heap, _i Megaphone_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 07:50:13 +1000 From: Sherlyn Koo Subject: Re: my tiny impressions of Lenni, K Wilhoite Hey folks, Paul said: >Kathleen Wilhoite's cd is pretty good too...WXPN has been playing cuts from it Excellent. Gonna try and listen to it today, if I can prise Abra Moore's "Sing" out of the car stereo... >Meth, Woj, JeffW...god i envy you. I think i'll team up with sherlyn and say >that i hate you. By the way, what did you all drink at the karaoke bar ? :) Thank you, Paul. It's nice to know someone else feels my pain. :) >Anyone else pick up Moxy Fruvous' live album yet? They do a cover of >"Psychokiller" and there is a LOT of in between song banter on it...over 20 >tracks, i think...or close to it...and a full band-slowed down version of King >of Spain... Yep, I've got it, although I haven't listen to every single track. It's got some damn funny bits though! And hearing the live version of the songs has given me a whole new appreciation for the last two Fruvous studio albums, which didn't hit me all that hard at the time... Speaking of Moxy Fruvous... if ectofolk like them, they might like the Arrogant Worms as well... has anybody out there heard of them (except Damon? :) And one more thing from meth's jealousy-inducing post of yesterday: >pain). Hopefully we'll get a chance to do it again sometime - Susan and >Jane are both really cool, genuinely nice and fun people. Yeah, well, if you do, it damn well better be with me and Paul along! :) sherlyn ps - oh, I know what I wanted to ask. I want to write Guide entries for Abra Moore and for Peter Mulvey, but I'm kind of blanking on what to put in the "Comparisons" section... anybody have any they want to suggest? I'm pretty much right with the rest of the sections though... === Sherlyn Koo - sherlyn@fl.net.au ========================= a+e=ig "All my life and all my days and all my nights surround me, Every time I needed it, the magic always found me. And if I'm bound to all the world, all the world is bound to be..." - Peter Mulvey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:47:55 -0700 From: deanorez@juno.com Subject: Upcoming on KCRW KCRW 89.9FM is out of Santa Monica, CA but you can hear the show live online at . All Times Pacific Monday, June 22 Morning Becomes Eclectic at 11:00 AM Guitarist and songwriter Francis Dunnery performs solo and acoustic at 11:15 a.m. Chocolate City at 10:00 PM JMD, local L.A. jazz musician and producer ("The Pharcyde," "Freestyle Fellowship"), guest DJs, featuring new, exclusive work from "Freestyle Fellowship" he also talks about an upcoming Carlos Nino, Roy Ayers, and Gil Scott-Heron concert series. Tuesday, June 23 Morning Becomes Eclectic at 11:00 AM African crossover artist Angelique Kidjo speaks 8 languages but prefers to sing in her native tongue, Benin. Hear her on Morning Becomes Eclectic. Wednesday, June 24 Morning Becomes Eclectic at 11:00 AM Former Stray Cat Brian Setzer brings his Orchestra for a full-powered 16 member Rock A Billy / Swing extravaganza. Thursday, June 25 Morning Becomes Eclectic at 10:00 AM Political musician Billy Bragg finds inspiration in the work of Woody Guthrie. He's here to share during a live performance and interview. Morning Becomes Eclectic at 11:00 AM Singer-songwriter Tara MacLean stops in for a set on Morning Becomes Eclectic. Bookworm at 2:30 PM Timothy O'Grady author of I Could Read the Sky (Harvill). A collaborative novel consisting of prose by Tim O'Grady and photographs by Steve Pike, I Could Read the Sky is a devastating account of the lives of Irish workers in England. O'Grady explores his own uprooted nature and how he discovered his "voice." Chocolate City at 10:00 PM "Black Eyed Peas," a local L.A. hip-hop group, has a new single, "Fallin Up," and an upcoming album, and are featured on the "Bulworth" original soundtrack. Hear them perform live on "Chocolate City." Friday, June 26 Morning Becomes Eclectic at 11:00 AM Swedish band Komeda drop in to perform their kitsch-pop sound and to discuss their new album, _What Makes it Go_. Saturday, June 27 Weekend Becomes Eclectic at 12:00 PM Lilith Fair Special featuring live performances by Autour de Lucie and Tara MacLean from Starbucks in Pasadena, CA; hosted by Mike Morrison and Nic Harcourt. Monday, June 29 Morning Becomes Eclectic at 11:00 AM Former Hugo Largo diva Mimi Goese performs live on Morning Becomes Eclectic. - ------ gp _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:24:32 +0200 (DFT) From: Dirk Kastens Subject: Re: Dalbello On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, Richard Holmes wrote: > np: Varttina: _aitara_ (one of the recent library loans) Thanks, Richard, for reminding me of this one. One of the most captivating folk bands that I know. Just put my head-phones on to listen to it again. Dirk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:17:57 -0700 (PDT) From: charley darbo Subject: Thank you, Juha! Am I the first one to benefit from the Ecto Trading Post? I just received a package from Finland containing Spiritualized's _Ladies_and_Gentlemen_We_Are_Floating_in_Space_. Your Innocence Mission is on the way, Juha. How many of us are taking advantage of this? The initial flurry of posted offers has fallen off a bit: only a few have been added in the last week. And it's hard to believe that many people have read mine; no one out there wants Nan Vernon? Annabouboula? Grace Pool? Sophie B. Hawkins? Sara Hickman? Penelope Houston? Sherri Jackson? My Scarlet Life? Holly Palmer? These and many more are still unclaimed. - --Charley n.p. Rufus Wainwright: _Rufus_Wainwright_ n.r. Simon Conway Morris: _The_Crucible_of_Creation_ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:36:19 -0500 (CDT) From: "Michael P. Hayes" Subject: Re: June 21 Whoops, this reminds me... last Friday the 19th was Moe Howard's birthday. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:09:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Neal Copperman Subject: Holly Cole in print From "Zen Attitude" by Sujata Massey: "Then I realized something had changed: the subdued Holly Cole jazz ballads I had slipped into the tape deck had given way to the gritty, anguished growling of Nine Inch Nails." Neal np: sohre - who will know ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:56:23 -0500 From: Neile Graham Subject: Martha and the Muffins news For thos interested... >Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:59:17 -0400 >From: Ken Hamilton >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: Gleb Zverev , Ken Hamilton , > Steve Turner , > "bronaugh@chass.utoronto.ca" , > Jay Novello , Neile Graham , > Rob McIntyre , Jack >Subject: "Then Again" due out July 14 > > > >Muffins members!!! > >In case you haven't heard EMI Canada has announced release of >THEN AGAIN the long-awaited retrospective CD by Martha and Mark >on July 14th. I noticed the announcement on the EMI Canada >web page last week. > >Subsequently I received an email response from EMI >(in response to some email I sent them weeks before) >saying that the CD would include "all the hits" as well >as a new song called "Resurrection". > >Two weeks ago I sent Martha and Mark a letter with >printouts of my web page and am still awaiting a response. >I will get word out to this list when I hear from them. >If you want to be removed from this list please let me know. > >I will be calling in my order to my local HMV any day now! > >Ken H. > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ..... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ..... neile@sff.net The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music .... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V4 #198 **************************